Looking for points of agreement re GPS

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Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« on: January 29, 2019, 12:04:55 PM »
Can we all agree that:

GPS accurately tells your location?

GPS receives radio signals from GPS transmitters?

Many different groups of people have used the GPS specs to build GPS receivers that work according to published specs?

There is software that recieves the GPS transmissions and displays the current position of the transmitter?

So, FEs, explanations of either GPS doesn't work or GPS works some other way?
Is it possible for something to be both true and unproven?

Are things that are true and proven any different from things that are true but not proven?

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wise

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2019, 12:39:24 PM »
Can we all agree that:

GPS accurately tells your location?

Generally. But according to datas given the software. If it is a sphere map, it overlaps with it.

GPS receives radio signals from GPS transmitters?
Land based GPS transmitters.

Many different groups of people have used the GPS specs to build GPS receivers that work according to published specs?

I don't understand this statement.

There is software that recieves the GPS transmissions and displays the current position of the transmitter?

Agreed.

So, FEs, explanations of either GPS doesn't work or GPS works some other way?
You've already explained how it works. There is nothing about satellites. A land based network system and a software.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

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Stash

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2019, 01:27:09 PM »
Can we all agree that:

GPS accurately tells your location?

Generally. But according to datas given the software. If it is a sphere map, it overlaps with it.

GPS receives radio signals from GPS transmitters?
Land based GPS transmitters.

Many different groups of people have used the GPS specs to build GPS receivers that work according to published specs?

I don't understand this statement.

There is software that recieves the GPS transmissions and displays the current position of the transmitter?

Agreed.

So, FEs, explanations of either GPS doesn't work or GPS works some other way?
You've already explained how it works. There is nothing about satellites. A land based network system and a software.

There's a lot about satellites. There's no land within 2000 miles when you're sailing and halfway between say Mexico and Tahiti. Yet GPS is still used for navigation.

Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2019, 01:43:03 PM »
Wise,

The statement you didn't understand:

A gps receiver get receives the satellite signals and does the calculations from those signals to determine your position. The satellites broadcast their position. The receiver uses 3d geometry on the signals from multiple satelites to "triangulate" (quadrangulate, pentangulate, etc). It outputs info using the NMEA protocol over rs-232 or USB into a computer or nav device.

Do you agree that's how it works.
Is it possible for something to be both true and unproven?

Are things that are true and proven any different from things that are true but not proven?

Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2019, 02:55:03 PM »
A GPS receiver shows the location of up to 20 satellites orbiting.  None are fixed.

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markjo

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2019, 06:40:55 PM »
GPS receives radio signals from GPS transmitters?
Land based GPS transmitters.
Close.  There are a number of ground based systems used to augment the accuracy of GPS.
https://www.gps.gov/systems/augmentations/
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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2019, 09:48:57 PM »
GPS receives radio signals from GPS transmitters?
Land based GPS transmitters.
Close.  There are a number of ground based systems used to augment the accuracy of GPS.
https://www.gps.gov/systems/augmentations/
To be clear the basic system uses satellites.

Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 07:43:54 AM »
There's a lot about satellites. There's no land within 2000 miles when you're sailing and halfway between say Mexico and Tahiti. Yet GPS is still used for navigation.
wise probably thinks the the largest sea is like 30 miles across and full of dead bodies from the airlines tipping passengers out into them...
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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 09:04:41 PM »
A GPS receiver shows the location of up to 20 satellites orbiting.  None are fixed.

Modern GPS chips can see more than 20. For example Ublox chips can have 72 channels, viewing GPS, Glonass, and SBAS concurrently to get very accurate positioning. With these chips and SW, you can track the satellite positions as they cross over you. Since GPS works basically by line of sight (ignoring multi-path for now), you can create a visual map of what your antenna sees and determine any blind spots you may have. For example, a tall building to the west would block reception of satellites in the west sky.
Map looks like this: https://i.stack.imgur.com/pjpiZ.png
The ovals are satellites in view. The red ones are not being used, the green are being used, and the blue are available to use. The center of the map represents directly overhead, and the outside edges of the circle represent the horizon. 
The colors of the squares represent the average signal strength of the satellites in that position of the sky in relation to your position/device. The red and green lines represent the paths of the satellites over time. This map takes a minimum of several hours to complete, usually recommended to run for at least 24 hours.
Here is a 3D view of the same idea. You see no satellites run over the poles. That is the empty spot on the 2D map above.
https://forum.u-blox.com/?qa=blob&qa_blobid=16936862491969422082
The big hole in the idea of ground based transmitters is that GPS works with line of sight. The signal is so weak and frequency high, that it does not transfer through walls in buildings for example. GPS ceramic patch antennas are directional, so often you will need to place them "this side up" otherwise you won't get reception. There are omni-directional antennas but generally they don't work as well; but it also depends on your application. Ground based transmitters would all be at the horizon, or horizontal to your position. the most common GPS antennas would not be able to see these signals, or at the very least be so weak that they can't be used for positioning.

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wise

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2019, 11:08:28 PM »
Artistic impression of GPS signals:



Real GPS lines:



1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

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JackBlack

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2019, 11:33:36 PM »
Real GPS lines:
You sure do love taking random pictures and lying and saying they are GPS lines or transmitters or the like.
What will be next, a picture of a cow?

On what basis do you claim they are GPS lines?

From what I can tell they are just large plastic pipes.

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Stash

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2019, 11:44:19 PM »
Artistic impression of GPS signals:

Real GPS lines:





They are pipes, zero to do with GPS.  Where do you find this stuff that erroneously immediately makes you think it's part of the 'globe conspiracy'?:

"The Norwegian-made 8ft (2.4m) diameter plastic pipes, with the longest beached segment 1,574ft (480m) long, washed up at Horsey, Winterton and Sea Palling."

https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/recovery-of-giant-pipes-washed-up-on-norfolk-beaches-could-take-weeks-1-5145817


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wise

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2019, 01:21:27 AM »
Real GPS lines:
You sure do love taking random pictures and lying and saying they are GPS lines or transmitters or the like.
What will be next, a picture of a cow?

On what basis do you claim they are GPS lines?

From what I can tell they are just large plastic pipes.

If you do not see the cables center of the pipes so you need an eyeglass.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

İgnored: Disputeone

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JackBlack

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2019, 01:25:08 AM »
If you do not see the cables center of the pipes so you need an eyeglass.
There is a steel cable which is used for transporting it.
Again, there is no link to GPS.

Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2019, 01:27:43 AM »
Real GPS lines:
You sure do love taking random pictures and lying and saying they are GPS lines or transmitters or the like.
What will be next, a picture of a cow?

On what basis do you claim they are GPS lines?

From what I can tell they are just large plastic pipes.

If you do not see the cables center of the pipes so you need an eyeglass.
What are GPS lines?

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wise

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2019, 01:48:53 AM »




Aha.  8)

If you do not see the cables center of the pipes so you need an eyeglass.
There is a steel cable which is used for transporting it.
Again, there is no link to GPS.

There is direct link.

GPS, or GSM, or land based telephone, or internet, or TV, all of them are worked with these cable network. All works on these cables. Just you change your software for different purposes.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

İgnored: Disputeone

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Stash

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2019, 02:11:56 AM »


You realize this video was made decades before GPS existed?



Aha.  8)

If you do not see the cables center of the pipes so you need an eyeglass.
There is a steel cable which is used for transporting it.
Again, there is no link to GPS.

There is direct link.

GPS, or GSM, or land based telephone, or internet, or TV, all of them are worked with these cable network. All works on these cables. Just you change your software for different purposes.

You realize that undersea cables do nothing to be able to triangulate your position within a few meters? If I'm standing in Topeka, Kanasas, basically 1500 miles away in any direction from an undersea cable, I can still pull out my phone, hail an Uber and I know where it is and where I am, within meters, at all times. You really have to try a lot harder at this.

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rabinoz

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2019, 02:27:05 AM »
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
GPS, or GSM, or land based telephone, or internet, or TV, all of them are worked with these cable network. All works on these cables. Just you change your software for different purposes.
If that is true then please explain:
  • Why when travelling around the remote desert regions of Australia there were many regions where GSM and CDMA cellphones and terrestrial TV did not work at all but my Satellite Phone and hand-held GPS perfectly.

  • Why when flying high over the oceans I could get GPS signals when there can be no ground stations for hundreds of kilometres.

  • Why when on a ship far from land  I could get GPS signals but never any GSM, 3G or 4G cell-phone signals.
If GPS and sat phones do not use satellites explain why they continue to operate far from any possible ground based transmitters.

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JackBlack

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Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2019, 02:53:51 AM »
Aha.
We aren't disputing the fact that undersea communication cables exist.
We are asking you to justify your claim that the pipe is a GPS cable, especially as GPS cables don't exist.

There is direct link.
GPS, or GSM, or land based telephone, or internet, or TV, all of them are worked with these cable network
No they don't.
GPS uses satellites.
The cell network primarily uses cell towers, with a cable network backing.
TV primarily uses radio towers.

They are all fundamentally different, and you can easily have access to one or some of these without the others.

Now can you provide a justification for thinking that is a GPS cable, or that GPS doesn't use satellite.

Re: Looking for points of agreement re GPS
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2019, 06:52:11 AM »

What will be next, a picture of a cow?


There are no GPS lines. There are only GPS cows.

And they are not flat. They are clowbes.