The Shipping Crate Experiment

Quote from: John Davis on January 22, 2017, 03:47:43 PM

It serves as yet another reason any thinking sailor since the dawn of time has known - the Earth is Flat.

Have you ever met any sailors?

We find it a great source of humour that there are some people that think the Earth is flat.

• Our charts are Mercator projections of the globe.
• We use the rising/dipping distances of lighthouses to determine distance off when position fixing.
• We use celestial navigation techniques.

None of the above could work on a flat earth.

Keep up the comedy :-)

Speaking as a Former Naval Person (ET2  who just missed it by a few months of making it to ET1, USN) :
(1)  We also know that the horizon is the distinct line where the sea and sky appear to meet.
(2)  We also know how to compute the distance we can see to the horizon.
(3)  The higher you are the farther you can see to the horizon.
(4)  Crow's nests are placed on the highest masts for that reason.
(5)  So are the rotating antennas on some types of Surface Search Radar Systems for that reason.(Not all systems-there are exceptions.)
Aĺl of this depends on the curvature of the earth on the globe.
There would be no curvature if the earth was flat.
There would be no horizon as we know it if the earth was flat.....Only "An indistinct blur which fades away at an idefinite distance."

Unfortunately the ships on which I served never sailed close enough to The Great Ice Wall to see it personally. Rowbotham describes it, so he must have seen it. Even if we had I am afraid my puny level of Security Clearance wouldn't  have allowed  me  to get past the Ice Wall Guards......This was back before NASA took over the Guard Duties.

Stick close to your close to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window and see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never go to sea !

Should there be apologies to Gilbert & Sullivan for this?

If you look closely at the aforementioned photographs dear lad, you will notice two things. Firstly, they come from a certain industry known as the "stock photograph" industry. You may as well hand me an oil painting of a dinosaur and thus claim that dragons once flew the land! Secondly, andlikely of far more import, any man knows that light shines downwards towards and outwards to the floor from a window, not on the ceiling!

Perhaps a few of these posters may have been right - save the twenty dollars and simply view your kitchen floor.

If you look closely at the aforementioned photographs dear lad, you will notice two things. Firstly, they come from a certain industry known as the "stock photograph" industry. You may as well hand me an oil painting of a dinosaur and thus claim that dragons once flew the land! Secondly, andlikely of far more import, any man knows that light shines downwards towards and outwards to the floor from a window, not on the ceiling!

Perhaps a few of these posters may have been right - save the twenty dollars and simply view your kitchen floor.

Dear Sir

Please lend an eye to this question:

Why does the mountain top get illuminated before the valley at sunrise?

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely yours,

Gumby

Secondly, andlikely of far more import, any man knows that light shines downwards towards and outwards to the floor from a window, not on the ceiling!

Well, yeah... sunlight shines downward through a window to the floor when the sun is well above the horizon.

Have you already forgotten what you proposed?

Now, at sunrise, within your shipping crate that is facing sunrise, with one end unbarred, take note of how the light illuminates the crate during the sunrise.

Emphasis added for your convenience.

Did you know that, if the container is 10m above sea level (presuming the horizon is sea level), for your initially proposed experiment to be meaningful, both the floor and ceiling of the container would have to be flat and level to better than 0.1°? I doubt your typical container on a dock is carefully leveled or that the floor and ceiling are perfectly flat and perfectly parallel.

I'll try again:

Have you actually tried this yourself? It sounds like you haven't.

Perhaps a few of these posters may have been right - save the twenty dollars and simply view your kitchen floor.

Have you actually tried this yourself? At sunrise?

At sunrise, light from the sun through a window illuminates the opposite wall, not the floor or ceiling.

Secondly, andlikely of far more import, any man knows that light shines downwards towards and outwards to the floor from a window, not on the ceiling!

Perhaps a few of these posters may have been right - save the twenty dollars and simply view your kitchen floor.

It's not my kitchen, and it's near sunset instead of sunrise, but I took this picture about 25 minutes before local sunset, partly for your benefit, but mostly for the benefit of unbiased readers.


Please note the sunlight through the west windows illuminates the east wall, not the floor. The lower sill of the west windows cast shadows below the sills of the east windows because the sun is above, not on, the western horizon. As the sun sets, the shadow of the sill rises. Unfortunately, the horizon to the west is obscured by a house and trees, so this is about as close to actual sunset as I can reasonably get. If you have better exposure to your own sunrises or sunsets on or closer to your horizon, please investigate.

Do you have any questions or comments about this, John Davis?

[Edit] Photo link

Oh boy. so many navs in this lot. The sailors and engineers I met, knew in their heart of hearts - its plane. Some of the tale you hear, they shake the mind.

Oh boy. so many navs in this lot. The sailors and engineers I met, knew in their heart of hearts - its plane. Some of the tale you hear, they shake the mind.

You don't interact with many living people, don't you?
I hope the sailors you pretend to know have no navigation responsibilities, otherwise they will get lost!

Alpha, thank you kindly for the photograph demonstrating my claim that light from the sun shines downwards towards the floor, not upwards to the ceiling during sunrise or sunset.

Quote from: John Davis on January 31, 2017, 09:56:22 PM

Oh boy. so many navs in this lot. The sailors and engineers I met, knew in their heart of hearts - its plane. Some of the tale you hear, they shake the mind.

You don't interact with many living people, don't you?
I hope the sailors you pretend to know have no navigation responsibilities, otherwise they will get lost!

Sailors have had no difficulty using the technique known as 'plane sailing' to navigation the world at great distances.

Quote from: Gumby on February 01, 2017, 03:53:59 AM

Quote from: John Davis on January 31, 2017, 09:56:22 PM

Oh boy. so many navs in this lot. The sailors and engineers I met, knew in their heart of hearts - its plane. Some of the tale you hear, they shake the mind.

You don't interact with many living people, don't you?
I hope the sailors you pretend to know have no navigation responsibilities, otherwise they will get lost!

Sailors have had no difficulty using the technique known as 'plane sailing' to navigation the world at great distances.

Not for 'great distances'. Plane sailing is only adequate for distances of a few hundred miles as it assumes a flat sea. Beyond that, it's necessary to use Mercator sailing which takes account of the curvature of the earth.

http://shipofficer.com/so/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/6.-Plane-Sailing.pdf
http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/APN/Chapt-24.pdf
http://navsoft.com/html/sailings.html
http://rtmates.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/navigation-general-formulas.html

Because Plane sailing involves simpler calculations than Mercator sailing it has entered into common language to mean something straightforward:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/plain-sailing.html

Tell that to Easter Island. Or the Norse. Portolan maps which are by necessity on a flat earth, also were incrediably accurate examples of plane sailing. So powerful, they were long considered state secrets.

Any idea where the missing 3x area in the southern hemisphere is?

Quote from: Gumby on February 01, 2017, 03:53:59 AM

Quote from: John Davis on January 31, 2017, 09:56:22 PM

Oh boy. so many navs in this lot. The sailors and engineers I met, knew in their heart of hearts - its plane. Some of the tale you hear, they shake the mind.

You don't interact with many living people, don't you?
I hope the sailors you pretend to know have no navigation responsibilities, otherwise they will get lost!

Sailors have had no difficulty using the technique known as 'plane sailing' to navigation the world at great distances.

Really! Maybe Gumby's right. This is only Wikipedia's entry but still, it's obvious enough!

Plane sailing Plane sailing (also, colloquially and historically, spelled plain sailing) is an approximate method of navigation over small ranges of latitude and longitude. With the course and distance known, the difference in latitude ΔφAB between A and B can be found, as well as the departure, the distance made good east or west. The difference in longitude ΔλAB is unknown and has to be calculated using meridional parts as in Mercator Sailing. Both spellings ("plane" and "plain") have been in use for several centuries, Plane sailing is based on the assumption that the meridian through the point of departure, the parallel through the destination, and the course line form a right triangle in a plane, called the "plane sailing triangle". The expressions "plane sailing" (or more commonly "plain sailing") has, by analogy, taken on a more general meaning of any activity that is relatively straightforward.

Departure p and the difference in latitude ΔφAB can be worked out with simple trigonometry.

The crucial difference between your claim and reality is that
you claim: "Sailors have had no difficulty using the technique known as 'plane sailing' to navigation of the world at great distances" but
"Plane sailing" is really limited to being "an approximate method of navigation over small ranges of latitude and longitude."

And would you class Cook's first voyage as "navigation over small ranges of latitude and longitude"?
By the way, "plane sailing" would work no better over long distances on a flat earth than on the Globe, whatever map you dream up!
Unless of course you decide in the end that your flat earth^[1] looks rectangular, as in Mercator's projection.

Really John, stick to your "thought experiments" and the  "Ferrari Effect"  that you handle so well and leave reality alone.

[1] I stress your flat earth because it seems that there are almost as map continental layouts as ardent flat earthers here.

Quote from: Gumby on February 01, 2017, 03:53:59 AM

Quote from: John Davis on January 31, 2017, 09:56:22 PM

Oh boy. so many navs in this lot. The sailors and engineers I met, knew in their heart of hearts - its plane. Some of the tale you hear, they shake the mind.

You don't interact with many living people, don't you?
I hope the sailors you pretend to know have no navigation responsibilities, otherwise they will get lost!

Sailors have had no difficulty using the technique known as 'plane sailing' to navigation the world at great distances.

Really? You are you trying to convince me that long distance navigation is possible under the assumption the earth is flat?

I imagine you did it yourself, proving wrong all the pilots that sailed across the oceans for centuries!

My sincere congratulations!

By the way can you lend an eye to this:

Dear Sir

Please lend an eye to this question:

Why does the mountain top get illuminated before the valley at sunrise?

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely yours,

Gumby

Alpha, thank you kindly for the photograph demonstrating my claim that light from the sun shines downwards towards the floor, not upwards to the ceiling during sunrise or sunset.

Thank you for acknowledging my post and the photo. Did you miss the part that said this was about one half hour before sunset, not during sunset?

Quote from: John Davis on February 04, 2017, 10:29:51 AM

Alpha, thank you kindly for the photograph demonstrating my claim that light from the sun shines downwards towards the floor, not upwards to the ceiling during sunrise or sunset.

Thank you for acknowledging my post and the photo. Did you miss the part that said this was about one half hour before sunset, not during sunset?

Half an hour before sunset would put the centre of the sun roughly 5° above horizontal where I imagine you live. Is that about right?
Maybe John Davis could tell how his flat earth sun could down to even 5°, let alone below the horizon.

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on February 04, 2017, 06:08:03 PM

Quote from: John Davis on February 04, 2017, 10:29:51 AM

Alpha, thank you kindly for the photograph demonstrating my claim that light from the sun shines downwards towards the floor, not upwards to the ceiling during sunrise or sunset.

Thank you for acknowledging my post and the photo. Did you miss the part that said this was about one half hour before sunset, not during sunset?

Half an hour before sunset would put the centre of the sun roughly 5° above horizontal where I imagine you live. Is that about right?
Maybe John Davis could tell how his flat earth sun could down to even 5°, let alone below the horizon.

I believe you are familiar with my model, which explains this well; in short, space is curved, the earth is flat, and Newton's Laws of Motion Hold.

However, this can be answered even with the most kosher and accepted of flat earth models: Rowbotham's. In fact, any interested student of nature can see this in affect by watching a large enough formation of migrating fowl. As they recede away from the viewer, the first avian at the tip of the vanguard will eventually appear to dip below the others, and then the next two and so on until eventually they appear to meet the horizon - in spite of being at a constant height the entire time. You could well do the same experiment if you happen to live near an airport so long as you take care to note when a plane reaches cruising altitude. For those who frequent urban centers more than natural ones, take note of the tops of buildings or street lanterns.

The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am? This seems in opposition to fact.

Tell that to Easter Island. Or the Norse. Portolan maps which are by necessity on a flat earth, also were incrediably accurate examples of plane sailing. So powerful, they were long considered state secrets.

Where does Easter Island come into it?
You claim "Portolan maps which are by necessity on a flat earth". Why, Portolan maps were made for the real earth, from experience?
Not only that, but the Globe was certainly the accepted shape of the earth at the time, not that it made any difference for sailing around the Mediterranean.

You say "incredibly accurate", but the navigators didn't even have "incredibly accurate" compasses then, so I guess they were accurate for the time.

But, any map can have directions draw to various destinations, those directions will get you there, but not necessarily via the shortest distance.

Until the distances get very large the extra distance when using rhumb line navigation is negligible.
For example across Australia from 30°S, 115°E near the west coast to 30°S, 153°E near the east coast.
Using Great Circle "navigation" (it's over land), the distance is 2,268 miles or 3,649 km
and when using Rhumb Line "navigation" 2,274 miles or 3,660 km - not worth considering.
   
But flying from Sydney (at 33.94°S, 151.18°E) to Santiago (33.39°S, 70.79°W) it's a different story:
Using Great Circle navigation, the distance is 7,061 miles or 11,363 km (the effect of altitude has been ignored)
and when using Rhumb Line navigation 7,940 miles or 12,778 km - certainly worth considering.

I'll let you work out these distances on whatever Flat Earth map (if any) is in vogue today.



      

Quote from: rabinoz on February 04, 2017, 08:26:50 PM

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on February 04, 2017, 06:08:03 PM

Quote from: John Davis on February 04, 2017, 10:29:51 AM

Alpha, thank you kindly for the photograph demonstrating my claim that light from the sun shines downwards towards the floor, not upwards to the ceiling during sunrise or sunset.

Thank you for acknowledging my post and the photo. Did you miss the part that said this was about one half hour before sunset, not during sunset?

Half an hour before sunset would put the centre of the sun roughly 5° above horizontal where I imagine you live. Is that about right?
Maybe John Davis could tell how his flat earth sun could down to even 5°, let alone below the horizon.

I believe you are familiar with my model, which explains this well; in short, space is curved, the earth is flat, and Newton's Laws of Motion Hold.

Your model!  In a dream (sorry, thought experiment) you come up with a hypothesis that space bends enough to make a flat earth look like a sphere. Mind you, I have seen no evidence that there is the slightest justification for this
and not the slightest idea how anything would behave on this hypothetical world.

However, this can be answered even with the most kosher and accepted of flat earth models: Rowbotham's. In fact, any interested student of nature can see this in affect by watching a large enough formation of migrating fowl. As they recede away from the viewer, the first avian at the tip of the vanguard will eventually appear to dip below the others, and then the next two and so on until eventually they appear to meet the horizon - in spite of being at a constant height the entire time.

There's nothing kosher about Rowbotham!
Firstly your migrating fowl. Canada Geese commonly fly at around 1,000 m, and according to Rowbotham's calculations, would not be visible for more than 3 km and they would not be close to the horizon by then, so try another analogy!
Lower flying birds may appear to disappear behind trees etc and yes, of course, perspective reduces the angle between the birds and the horizon.

Analogies like this prove nothing.

You could well do the same experiment if you happen to live near an airport so long as you take care to note when a plane reaches cruising altitude. For those who frequent urban centers more than natural ones, take note of the tops of buildings or street lanterns.

Yes, nobody denies that perspective brings reduces the angle,
but in case you had forgotten, your sun starts at an altitude of supposedly about 5,000 km. Ski claims that's rubbish and so do I, but that's for another day.

Now at the time the sun is supposed to set it is only around 15,000 km away (the distance depends on the location and time of year), so the sun is still about 18° above the horizon!

At this point I see that the flat earth has two options:

• Refraction - but it's the wrong way and not nearly enough, being only about 0.5° right at the horizon.
  
  
• Invent "bendy light" as Tom Bishop does and as is presented in
  THE SEA-EARTH GLOBE AND ITS Monstrous Hypothetical Motions; OR Modern Theoretical Astronomy, A Tangle of ever-varying "Scientific” Fictions, Contrary to the Facts of Nature, and Opposed to the Teaching of the Holy Scriptures. By “ ZETETES.”

That's a bit too far a stretch for me I'm afraid.
But, John I'm not going to waste all my time on Rowbotham, who
          didn't even know how to read a theodolite - see "Tangential Horizons" and
          could not correctly work out the angular size of the sun.

Must go, and as Sir Terry Pratchett wrote "When you've gotta go, you've gotta go!"
E&OE Errors & Omissions Expected!

The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am? This seems in opposition to fact.

I've been trying all to work out what that means for hours.
 
Am I to assume that you refer to the photograph in this post The Shipping Crate Experiment « Reply #35 on: January 30, 2017, 02:44:51 PM ».?
As I've said a number of times, I do wish you would either Quote posts you refer to or at least include a link. If I guessed correctly there are about 14 intervening posts.

But if that's the post you are referring to, you comment makes no sense.

That post says "As the sun sets, the shadow of the sill rises. Unfortunately, the horizon to the west is obscured by a house and trees, so this is about as close to actual sunset as I can reasonably get."

And yet you make the statement "The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am?"
Surely "as close to actual sunset as I can reasonably get" is quite unambiguous. Sunset is at a particular time and is readily predictable, at least on the real earth!
What would make you say "this picture was at ~11:30am"?

 Alpha2Omega did later say "this was about one-half hour before sunset", which to me (with a bit of help from the "LunaSolCal" app) meant that the centre of the sun would be roughly 5° above horizontal.

So, just what did you mean by "The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am?"
I am afraid to me the definition of the time of sunset is the time the top edge of the sun just disappears.
If you are observing the sunset over an unobstructed horizon that is a very weel defined and quite predictable time, only changed much by unusual refraction events - mirages etc.

Somtimes I get the feeling that most flat earthers have never seen a sunrise or sunset.

The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am?

No. Why would you think the picture was taken anywhere near solar noon?

Remember, I said we were looking at sunlight through a west window on an east wall.

Please note the sunlight through the west windows illuminates the east wall, not the floor.

This seems in opposition to fact.

Your assertion is obviously in opposition to fact. Without a totally bizarre and counterintuitive meaning for "sunset" it means nothing at all, and even that wacky interpretation wouldn't fit the description of the picture. It should have been obvious, even to you, that your notion is nonsense.

Half an hour before sunset begins means half an hour before the the lower limb of the sun touches the horizon on the way down; half an hour before sunset ends means half an hour before the the last part of the sun vanishes below the horizon. Just like it always does. These are only a few minutes apart except at very high latitudes, and, even then only briefly, and that rare situation wouldn't be consistent with the photo, anyway.

All of this notwithstanding, that photo and post was to answer

Secondly, andlikely of far more import, any man knows that light shines downwards towards and outwards to the floor from a window, not on the ceiling!

Perhaps a few of these posters may have been right - save the twenty dollars and simply view your kitchen floor.

The light isn't shining on the floor.

Remember that I posted the photo "mostly for the benefit of unbiased readers." Your convoluted attempt at reasoning is exactly why I said that. At least you haven't simply dismissed it as a fake. Yet.

[Edit to add] Sorry, Rab... I didn't see that last response before posting this; I was gone all day yesterday and was brought short by Mr. Davis' preposterous post as I was catching up on reading the thread today.

Also, yes... the (top of the) sun was a bit lower than 5° above the ideal horizon when that was taken.

Quote from: John Davis on February 04, 2017, 10:17:23 PM

The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am? This seems in opposition to fact.

I've been trying all to work out what that means for hours.
 
Am I to assume that you refer to the photograph in this post The Shipping Crate Experiment « Reply #35 on: January 30, 2017, 02:44:51 PM ».?
As I've said a number of times, I do wish you would either Quote posts you refer to or at least include a link. If I guessed correctly there are about 14 intervening posts.

But if that's the post you are referring to, you comment makes no sense.

That post says "As the sun sets, the shadow of the sill rises. Unfortunately, the horizon to the west is obscured by a house and trees, so this is about as close to actual sunset as I can reasonably get."

And yet you make the statement "The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am?"
Surely "as close to actual sunset as I can reasonably get" is quite unambiguous. Sunset is at a particular time and is readily predictable, at least on the real earth!
What would make you say "this picture was at ~11:30am"?

 Alpha2Omega did later say "this was about one-half hour before sunset", which to me (with a bit of help from the "LunaSolCal" app) meant that the centre of the sun would be roughly 5° above horizontal.

So, just what did you mean by "The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am?"
I am afraid to me the definition of the time of sunset is the time the top edge of the sun just disappears.
If you are observing the sunset over an unobstructed horizon that is a very weel defined and quite predictable time, only changed much by unusual refraction events - mirages etc.

Somtimes I get the feeling that most flat earthers have never seen a sunrise or sunset.

Your confusion is understandable, and likely my words are at fault or my own misunderstanding of the original statement. It is in accordance with observation that I say the sun sets during the entire period after solar noon until the end of day. Thirty minutes before sunset, then, would be 11:30 am judging our clocks by natural standards such as the sun alone.

We now remedy this mistake by assuming he meant 30 temporal minutes before the sun breaches the horizon; if the earth was round - we would expect a light to be shining upwards at this point. This is in disagreement with fact as we can see in the above picture that the sun is clearly illuminating downwards as the base of its sunlit square projected from the window parallel to the one shown is below the window! Of course, these windows as pictured are assumed to be level with the opposite portal that is allowing the projection of light onto it. The light is projected downward, and not upwards to the ceiling! Not even at sunset will we see our ceilings brightened by the warm glow of the sun. This is yet another way the common man with eyes open knows the TRUTH - the earth is a plane, to globularist shame.

The sun is rising right now. My ceiling remains dark. What of you good forum goers? Is your ceiling lit?

The sun is rising right now. My ceiling remains dark. What of you good forum goers? Is your ceiling lit?

As you know it depends on location, height, direction etc.

Is there anything about the angle of the sun you disagree with? Sunrise and sunset times published across the earth are correct and based on agreed size and shape etc.

You are very correct. Perhaps in Australia, where they hang by their feet, their houses are suitably overturned to allow for the sun to grace ceilings! Or per happenstance, you may be referring to a house level with the side of a mountain, such that the entire house like an uneven table makes drinking a cup of tea an impossibility?

No, sir. If the ceiling is not lit, you must admit - the earth is flat, and that is that.

Quote from: rabinoz on February 05, 2017, 04:46:31 AM

Quote from: John Davis on February 04, 2017, 10:17:23 PM

The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am? This seems in opposition to fact.

I've been trying all to work out what that means for hours.
 
Am I to assume that you refer to the photograph in this post The Shipping Crate Experiment « Reply #35 on: January 30, 2017, 02:44:51 PM ».?
As I've said a number of times, I do wish you would either Quote posts you refer to or at least include a link. If I guessed correctly there are about 14 intervening posts.

But if that's the post you are referring to, you comment makes no sense.

That post says "As the sun sets, the shadow of the sill rises. Unfortunately, the horizon to the west is obscured by a house and trees, so this is about as close to actual sunset as I can reasonably get."

And yet you make the statement "The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am?"
Surely "as close to actual sunset as I can reasonably get" is quite unambiguous. Sunset is at a particular time and is readily predictable, at least on the real earth!
What would make you say "this picture was at ~11:30am"?

 Alpha2Omega did later say "this was about one-half hour before sunset", which to me (with a bit of help from the "LunaSolCal" app) meant that the centre of the sun would be roughly 5° above horizontal.

So, just what did you mean by "The sun sets during the entire after solar noon. Am I to take it this picture was at ~11:30am?"
I am afraid to me the definition of the time of sunset is the time the top edge of the sun just disappears.
If you are observing the sunset over an unobstructed horizon that is a very weel defined and quite predictable time, only changed much by unusual refraction events - mirages etc.

Somtimes I get the feeling that most flat earthers have never seen a sunrise or sunset.

Your confusion is understandable, and likely my words are at fault or my own misunderstanding of the original statement. It is in accordance with observation that I say the sun sets during the entire period after solar noon until the end of day. Thirty minutes before sunset, then, would be 11:30 am judging our clocks by natural standards such as the sun alone.

According to that line of reasoning, sunset and local solar noon are the same time. Your use of 'sunset' when you mean 'noon' is nothing more than obfuscation.

We now remedy this mistake by assuming he meant 30 temporal minutes before the sun breaches the horizon; if the earth was round - we would expect a light to be shining upwards at this point.

Why?  Maybe you would expect that, but you'd be wrong. Can you show the reason you think sunlight would shine upward if the earth is a sphere the size it's known to be, and what angle relative to horizontal you would expect? See below for my answer; if yours is different, please show your work.

This is in disagreement with fact as we can see in the above picture that the sun is clearly illuminating downwards as the base of its sunlit square projected from the window parallel to the one shown is below the window!

Let's see... assuming the radius of the spherical earth is 6400 km. Since this is the second floor of a residence, let's say the window sills are roughly 4m above ground level. If the horizon is formed by ground at roughly the same elevation as at the house, the horizon is about 0.06° below level. Since the sun is about 4° above the horizon when the picture was taken, and the horizon itself if a tiny fraction of a degree below level, then we would expect sunlight to be shining from about 4° above level, which is consistent with the picture.

Of course, these windows as pictured are assumed to be level with the opposite portal that is allowing the projection of light onto it. The light is projected downward, and not upwards to the ceiling! Not even at sunset will we see our ceilings brightened by the warm glow of the sun.

Exactly as would be expected with the sun a few degrees above the horizon. In principle, at the moment of sunset, just as the last of the sun disappears from view, the last of the sunlight would be shining slightly upward at about 0.06°, or maybe 4 mm (about 1/6 inch) across the width of that room. Since the tops of the windows are about 2 feet (~ 60 cm) below the ceiling, we would not expect the ceiling to be illuminated.

You seem to forget that your original proposal was a shipping crate (container, actually) at "the moment of sunrise", not 30 minutes after the sun broke the horizon. If the open end of the container extended all the way to the ceiling, and the ceiling were perfectly level and flat, the ceiling would be directly illuminated until the lower limb of the sun climbed a fraction of a degree (roughly 0.1° if the container were 10m above the level of the horizon, 0.06° if only 4m). Those are pretty small angles because the radius of the spherical earth is large compared to those heights.

This is yet another way the common man with eyes open knows the TRUTH - the earth is a plane, to globularist shame.

You later modified the experiment to "view your kitchen floor". By your logic, since the photo clearly shows the sunlight is not striking the floor, the earth must not be flat (presuming it's allowable to substitute a different room for 'kitchen').

The sun is rising right now. My ceiling remains dark. What of you good forum goers? Is your ceiling lit?

Is the sun streaming in through a window? How far below your ceiling is the top of the window? How much higher than the elevation of the horizon is the top of the window? These matter.

Is the floor also "dark"? How far above the floor is the window sill?

Remember, your proposal was for a shipping container, then changed to the kitchen floor.

You are most correct - the shipping container is far a more ideal location for such an experiment. However, those without a twenty might find themselves glad to observe this every day from their own house. As you and a previous poster pointed out, yes, they would have to have a reasonable orientated house.