A Simple Level.

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Pezevenk

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2016, 01:48:20 PM »
If you could go out into space, far away from earth, which direction would be up?

The opposite direction to down.
And what way would be down?

The direction perpendicular to left.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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JackBlack

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2016, 02:14:14 PM »

Some people may not be completely indoctrinated into the flat Earth cult. It is these people I am here for. To point out all the bullshit "supporting" a flat Earth so they dont' get indoctrinated.



So, you view yourself as the Savior?
No. One person alone is not enough to deal with all the bullshit that is said.
I just try my best to help.

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JackBlack

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2016, 02:16:38 PM »
If you could go out into space, far away from earth, which direction would be up?

The opposite direction to down.
And what way would be down?

The direction perpendicular to left.
But isn't that up as well?

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Pezevenk

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2016, 02:20:03 PM »
If you could go out into space, far away from earth, which direction would be up?

The opposite direction to down.
And what way would be down?

The direction perpendicular to left.
But isn't that up as well?

Yes, but it's the other way.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

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Bullwinkle

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2016, 03:13:07 PM »

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JackBlack

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2016, 05:35:39 PM »

But isn't that up as well?





But what if you are in intergalactic space?
What galaxy core do you use then?

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Overworld

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2016, 06:35:48 PM »
Which brings up a new question, if there is no gravity in space then how is the Earth's gravity holding the moon? It holds the moon in place but astronauts just float around up there? I hear that there is no gravity in space but then I hear that the Earth's gravity holds the moon, satellites, the ISS etc. in place, and the sun holds all the planets in orbit etc. etc. So which one is it? Is there gravity in space or isn't there? Or are astronauts just immune to gravity in space?
Who says there's no gravity in space? There's plenty of gravity in space.

Astronauts, the ISS and satellites in general are 'weightless' because they are free-falling, that is they are yielding to gravity completely. An object only has weight when it resists gravity, not when it yields to it.
                                                                                                                                                          Okay can you please explain this further? So is everything in freefall, including the sun? Or are we freefalling towards the sun and the sun is stationary? Because if we are freefalling towards the sun then when we slingshot around it and head in the opposite direction that would be the opposite of freefalling, we would be travelling upwards, and against the sun's gravity at that. Actually that would be true even if we were travelling towards the sun horizontally when we slingshot around it and travel in the opposite direction we would be resisting the sun's gravity.

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JackBlack

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2016, 09:08:44 PM »
Okay can you please explain this further? So is everything in freefall, including the sun? Or are we freefalling towards the sun and the sun is stationary? Because if we are freefalling towards the sun then when we slingshot around it and head in the opposite direction that would be the opposite of freefalling, we would be travelling upwards, and against the sun's gravity at that. Actually that would be true even if we were travelling towards the sun horizontally when we slingshot around it and travel in the opposite direction we would be resisting the sun's gravity.
It gets more and more complicated as you consider more and more of reality.
The sun (the entire solar system actually) is in free fall around the galactic centre.
There are also various perterbations from other objects.

When just considering our solar system, the sun is effectively stationary (it actually wobbles a bit for each planet, which can be considered as the combination of the various orbits around the planet-sun barycenters, but that barycentre is well inside the sun).

And the sun determines what direction "down" is.

This means the sun is effectively in free fall around the sun.
But it isn't just falling down towards the sun, it is also moving sideways.
These movements combine to produce a roughly circular orbit.
Similar to how a ball on a string is constantly being pulled towards the centre by the string, but the sideways movement keeps it going in a circle instead of falling directly to it.

As I have said before (but not necessarily here):
Imagine an object following a circular path, which for simplicity of analysis is broken into 360 pieces.
It starts off half way along one of these peices travelling at a velocity of [0,100,0], at say a position of [100,0,0], and the direction of down is towards the centre, so in the direction [-1, 0, 0].
At the end of that piece, it needs to change direction to travel at a speed of 100 at a slight angle (1 degree off course).
This means it would now be travelling at [-1.74524064372835, 99.9847695156391, 0].
This represents a change in velocity of [-1.74524064372835, -0.0152304843608704, 0].
This is a change of 1.7453071, in the direction towards the centre of the circle.
So it has been accelerated towards the centre, or "down", to maintain a circular path.

This is simply how uniform circular motion works. In general, the acceleration required to maintain a circular path is given by v^2/r.

When Earth is on the other side of its orbit (corresponding to the hypothetical example having a velocity of [0, -100, 0], at a position [-100,0,0]) down is still towards the sun. This is a different direction to when Earth was on the other side. (the hypothetical example now has down being [1,0,0]).

As Earth travels around its orbit, down continues to point in the direction of the sun.

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Pezevenk

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2016, 02:29:56 AM »
Which brings up a new question, if there is no gravity in space then how is the Earth's gravity holding the moon? It holds the moon in place but astronauts just float around up there? I hear that there is no gravity in space but then I hear that the Earth's gravity holds the moon, satellites, the ISS etc. in place, and the sun holds all the planets in orbit etc. etc. So which one is it? Is there gravity in space or isn't there? Or are astronauts just immune to gravity in space?
Who says there's no gravity in space? There's plenty of gravity in space.

Astronauts, the ISS and satellites in general are 'weightless' because they are free-falling, that is they are yielding to gravity completely. An object only has weight when it resists gravity, not when it yields to it.
                                                                                                                                                          Okay can you please explain this further? So is everything in freefall, including the sun? Or are we freefalling towards the sun and the sun is stationary? Because if we are freefalling towards the sun then when we slingshot around it and head in the opposite direction that would be the opposite of freefalling, we would be travelling upwards, and against the sun's gravity at that. Actually that would be true even if we were travelling towards the sun horizontally when we slingshot around it and travel in the opposite direction we would be resisting the sun's gravity.

We are in a state of free fall towards the sun and sun is in a state of free fall towards the centre of the galaxy.

"when we slingshot around it and head in the opposite direction that would be the opposite of freefalling, we would be travelling upwards, and against the sun's gravity at that."

That's still considered free fall in physics.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

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Overworld

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2016, 06:27:30 PM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.

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Overworld

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2016, 06:32:40 PM »
I mean according to the inverse square law the Earths gravity increases in strength the further out it goes

Actually the opposite is true. Earth's gravity becomes exponentially LESS strong the further away you travel.

Do you know how an inverse square works?
                                                                                                                                                          Honestly I got it wrong before, I revisited it and understand it now, I think I was pretty tired when I looked at it the first time.

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Pezevenk

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2016, 02:27:01 AM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.

"How fast" is the wrong question. Free fall in this case doesn't necessarily mean the object is going down (meaning towards the object that is attracting it). In circular orbits, the object keeps a fixed distance forever. You should be asking what the acceleration is. In the case of the ISS, it's probably a bit less than 9.8 m/s^2.

If you want a more in depth explanation, it will require some math.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

*

JackBlack

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2016, 03:36:24 AM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.
Do you mean how fast is Earth travelling, or do you mean what is the free fall itself?
Earth is currently travelling around the sun at a rate of roughly 30 km/s.
We can determine the acceleration in 2 ways.
One is by using our orbit, the other is by using calculations for gravity.
Using our orbital velocity of 30 km/s, and our radius of 150 000 000 km, this gives an acceleration of 0.006 m/s^2.
Using more precise values, it gives 0.00593 m/s^2.
Using gravity, we get a value of 0.00593 m/s^2.

Does that answer your question?

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dans

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2016, 02:10:08 PM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.
Do you mean how fast is Earth travelling, or do you mean what is the free fall itself?
Earth is currently travelling around the sun at a rate of roughly 30 km/s.
We can determine the acceleration in 2 ways.
One is by using our orbit, the other is by using calculations for gravity.
Using our orbital velocity of 30 km/s, and our radius of 150 000 000 km, this gives an acceleration of 0.006 m/s^2.
Using more precise values, it gives 0.00593 m/s^2.
Using gravity, we get a value of 0.00593 m/s^2.

Does that answer your question?
Or ssomething like this:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

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totallackey

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2016, 02:52:36 PM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.
Do you mean how fast is Earth travelling, or do you mean what is the free fall itself?
Earth is currently travelling around the sun at a rate of roughly 30 km/s.
We can determine the acceleration in 2 ways.
One is by using our orbit, the other is by using calculations for gravity.
Using our orbital velocity of 30 km/s, and our radius of 150 000 000 km, this gives an acceleration of 0.006 m/s^2.
Using more precise values, it gives 0.00593 m/s^2.
Using gravity, we get a value of 0.00593 m/s^2.

Does that answer your question?
Or ssomething like this:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Anybody who believes that bullshit video is actually taking place needs their _ _ _ _ _ _ _ head examined.

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dans

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2016, 03:11:09 PM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.
Do you mean how fast is Earth travelling, or do you mean what is the free fall itself?
Earth is currently travelling around the sun at a rate of roughly 30 km/s.
We can determine the acceleration in 2 ways.
One is by using our orbit, the other is by using calculations for gravity.
Using our orbital velocity of 30 km/s, and our radius of 150 000 000 km, this gives an acceleration of 0.006 m/s^2.
Using more precise values, it gives 0.00593 m/s^2.
Using gravity, we get a value of 0.00593 m/s^2.

Does that answer your question?
Or ssomething like this:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Anybody who believes that bullshit video is actually taking place needs their _ _ _ _ _ _ _ head examined.

Hello totallackey (i like the irony of your nickname anyway... :P),

So...are you telling me that we're living in something like this?




Oh my... ::)

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2016, 03:21:10 PM »
Those columns look a lot like elephant legs!
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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dans

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2016, 03:25:39 PM »
Those columns look a lot like elephant legs!

I know right? ;D

Those Hindu must be right... ::)

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Overworld

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2016, 06:27:25 PM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.
Do you mean how fast is Earth travelling, or do you mean what is the free fall itself?
Earth is currently travelling around the sun at a rate of roughly 30 km/s.
We can determine the acceleration in 2 ways.
One is by using our orbit, the other is by using calculations for gravity.
Using our orbital velocity of 30 km/s, and our radius of 150 000 000 km, this gives an acceleration of 0.006 m/s^2.
Using more precise values, it gives 0.00593 m/s^2.
Using gravity, we get a value of 0.00593 m/s^2.

Does that answer your question?
                                                                                                                                                          Yes, that and the video gives me a much better understanding of what you are trying to convey, thanks.

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Overworld

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2016, 06:29:51 PM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.
Do you mean how fast is Earth travelling, or do you mean what is the free fall itself?
Earth is currently travelling around the sun at a rate of roughly 30 km/s.
We can determine the acceleration in 2 ways.
One is by using our orbit, the other is by using calculations for gravity.
Using our orbital velocity of 30 km/s, and our radius of 150 000 000 km, this gives an acceleration of 0.006 m/s^2.
Using more precise values, it gives 0.00593 m/s^2.
Using gravity, we get a value of 0.00593 m/s^2.

Does that answer your question?
Or ssomething like this:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
                                                                                                                                                          Thanks, that makes it a lot more clear.

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rabinoz

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2016, 06:51:09 PM »
Those columns look a lot like elephant legs!
Here this better?

The late Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" shows why they look like elephant's legs.
Don't ask me what supports the turtle,  :P probably dark energy :P!

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rabinoz

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2016, 06:59:15 PM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.
Do you mean how fast is Earth travelling, or do you mean what is the free fall itself?
Earth is currently travelling around the sun at a rate of roughly 30 km/s.
We can determine the acceleration in 2 ways.
One is by using our orbit, the other is by using calculations for gravity.
Using our orbital velocity of 30 km/s, and our radius of 150 000 000 km, this gives an acceleration of 0.006 m/s^2.
Using more precise values, it gives 0.00593 m/s^2.
Using gravity, we get a value of 0.00593 m/s^2.

Does that answer your question?
Or something like this:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">]The true actual motion of planets and sun through space
                                                                                                                                                          Thanks, that makes it a lot more clear.
I think JackBlack likes to confuse things. Showing things relative to right frame of reference can simplify things a lot.

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Overworld

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2016, 07:40:43 PM »
Those columns look a lot like elephant legs!
Here this better?

The late Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" shows why they look like elephant's legs.
Don't ask me what supports the turtle,  :P probably dark energy :P!
                                                                                                                                                          It's an artistic rendering, just like NASA's pictures of the Globe. Amazing how they have differed so much over the years except for one thing...it retains it's absolutely perfect globe shape.

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disputeone

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2016, 07:48:07 PM »
Those columns look a lot like elephant legs!
Here this better?

The late Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" shows why they look like elephant's legs.
Don't ask me what supports the turtle,  :P probably dark energy :P!

It's turtles all the way down, silly.

                                                                                                                                                      It's an artistic rendering, just like NASA's pictures of the Globe. Amazing how they have differed so much over the years except for one thing...it retains it's absolutely perfect globe shape.

Incorrect.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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rabinoz

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2016, 08:47:22 PM »
It's an artistic rendering, just like NASA's pictures of the Globe. Amazing how they have differed so much over the years except for one thing...it retains it's absolutely perfect globe shape.
Ever think what you are saying? Obviously not. You mean this sort of thing?
Quote from: Mick West, Metabunk
This month NASA released a new photo of the Earth from space, taken from the DSCOVER satellite, 930,000 miles above the Earth. Some people have claimed that this new image shows an increasingly hazy Earth, and that this is evidence of an increase in pollution, or a secret geoengineering program (using "chemtrails"). Some more extreme theorist have suggested that the image is fake because the continents (particularly North America) appear to be a different size to earlier photos.

The misconception comes from a misunderstanding about how the photos are taken. This new 2015 image is noteworthy because it's the first time since 1972 that a good quality single image photograph has been taken of the Earth. The previous last image (in 1972) was taken by an astronaut from on board the Apollo 17 spacecraft during the last manned mission to the Moon. This was the first image called the "Blue Marble", although there had been similar images taken before (such as the 1967 images taken by the ATS3 satellite), the 1972 Blue Marble image became iconic, and remains the last such image taken by an actual person.

From Debunked: "Blue Marble" Photos show a Changing Earth
Yes, the continents that are visible depends on which part of the globe is facing the camera and their relative size depends on the distance from Earth that the photo was taken. To get most of the globe in the photograph the distance needs to be at least 20,000 miles, and even there almost 8° is missing, usually near the poles. See this simulation using a desktop globe:

Any more complaints?

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rabinoz

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2016, 08:55:06 PM »
The late Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" shows why they look like elephant's legs.
Don't ask me what supports the turtle,  :P probably dark energy :P!

It's turtles all the way down, silly.

I don't see any more turtles, and by my Zetetic reasoning that means that there can't be any more! That proves that it  :P probably is dark energy :P!

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disputeone

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2016, 10:48:27 PM »
The late Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" shows why they look like elephant's legs.
Don't ask me what supports the turtle,  :P probably dark energy :P!

It's turtles all the way down, silly.

I don't see any more turtles, and by my Zetetic reasoning that means that there can't be any more! That proves that it  :P probably is dark energy :P!

Touchè.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2016, 01:28:03 PM »
The late Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" shows why they look like elephant's legs.
Don't ask me what supports the turtle,  :P probably dark energy :P!

It's turtles all the way down, silly.

I don't see any more turtles, and by my Zetetic reasoning that means that there can't be any more! That proves that it  :P probably is dark energy :P!

I loved Discworld, but you do know that he didn't come up with the idea that the world rests on the back of a turtle?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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TheRealBillNye

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2016, 02:59:54 PM »
The late Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" shows why they look like elephant's legs.
Don't ask me what supports the turtle,  :P probably dark energy :P!

It's turtles all the way down, silly.

I don't see any more turtles, and by my Zetetic reasoning that means that there can't be any more! That proves that it  :P probably is dark energy :P!

I loved Discworld, but you do know that he didn't come up with the idea that the world rests on the back of a turtle?

No, I used to debate with a Jehovas Witness who insisted there were turtles all the way down. I believe this story has religious roots.

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totallackey

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Re: A Simple Level.
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2016, 03:25:45 PM »
So how fast is the freefall? The speed of revolution and orbit notwithstanding.
Do you mean how fast is Earth travelling, or do you mean what is the free fall itself?
Earth is currently travelling around the sun at a rate of roughly 30 km/s.
We can determine the acceleration in 2 ways.
One is by using our orbit, the other is by using calculations for gravity.
Using our orbital velocity of 30 km/s, and our radius of 150 000 000 km, this gives an acceleration of 0.006 m/s^2.
Using more precise values, it gives 0.00593 m/s^2.
Using gravity, we get a value of 0.00593 m/s^2.

Does that answer your question?
Or ssomething like this:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Anybody who believes that bullshit video is actually taking place needs their _ _ _ _ _ _ _ head examined.

Hello totallackey (i like the irony of your nickname anyway... :P),

So...are you telling me that we're living in something like this?




Oh my... ::)

No.I am telling you the animated bullshit in that video is not taking place. The Earth is not hurtling through space chasing around the Sun.