Air Pressure vs Gravity

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inquisitive

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1320 on: January 19, 2017, 01:20:06 PM »
You've told us that metals weigh differently because they are porous and have air inside and when subjected to water under pressure the water will replace the air.
If there were air inside the metal we would see bubbles after it is immersed.

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markjo

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1321 on: January 19, 2017, 01:32:32 PM »
Actually, the "crush" of the water wants to push the container up, not down.  It's called buoyancy and it's why dense objects feel lighter underwater, not heavier.
 
Yep  the water would have squeezed the empty jar up and made it buoyant.
What made it sink?
The jar sank because it was filled with a dense material, thereby affecting the overall density of the jar.


Actually, if you check the amount of water displaced, you will find that it weighs less than the weight of the jar.  That's why the jar sank. 

Here is s simple experiment to prove it:
1) put the container in a shallow pan
2) fill the container to the brim
3) take your metal cube and weigh it
4) put the cube into the container so that it overflows
5) weigh the water that spilled out of the container into the shallow pan

Repeat with metal cubes of different densities.

I guarantee you that if you did everything correctly, the water that was displaced (spilled out of the container) will weigh less than the cube.  Then again, I can also pretty much guarantee that you will never perform this experiment either.
Ok, use a block of wood and a block of metal of the exact same volume and let's see which one displaces more water.
Apparently you believe they both displace the same.
Try it out.
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
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Woody

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1322 on: January 19, 2017, 02:16:50 PM »
Who said anything about steel absorbing water?

Is it or is it not the reason you said the experiments proposed here were flawed?  We can not measure the amount of water being absorbed.

If water is not being absorbed then the experiments demonstrate it is volume displacing the water and not the objects density. 

I also just selected steel as an example, but no metal absorbs water.

I am guessing, but I imagine if enough pressure is involved it can.  That pressure is not something that occurs naturally on Earth.  Again for the sake of argument will will say it might at the deepest parts of the ocean or deep under the crust where pressures are higher.

With that in mind the experiments conducted and proposed here demonstrate it is not density that displaces a medium, but volume in all conditions except the most extreme we are assuming absorption would occur.  Actually even then like a sponge it is still displacing based on volume and not density. 

Still unwilling to let us know one experiment that can be conducted to demonstrate denpressure? It is a question I have not seen you directly answer.  You only have said you did experiments, that you told others how to do them which I have not seen anywhere on this forum.

Also I am thinking you do not understand why somethings float and some things do not.

It is very simple. 

If something can displace more water than it weighs it floats.

That is why when you see the tonnage for a boat it is not what the boat the boat weighs, but the amount of water it can displace.  My boat displaces 20 tons.  Guess how much weight I can load on to my boat before it sinks?

It is also why if we would just take a solid block of steel and threw it into the water it would sink.  If we take that block of steel and increase its volume by making it hollow and into a hull it can float.  Not only that we can design it so not only can it remain positively buoyant not only with the steels mass we can load it with cargo, engines, fuel, water, electronics, beds, toilets, food, etc.

The reason being volume displaces the medium something is in and not its density.

Actually with your model it should be possible to build a sky boat that stays aloft not needing hot air, helium or similar.  It would float using buoyancy since gravity does not exist.  My guess some material like balsa wood, graphite or maybe even aluminum should work.  It would just need to remain neutrally buoyant to float in the air at some air pressure since there is no gravity.

If I ever get really bored I might come up with a simple design and use the same calculations that are used for boats to see if it is possible.  I'll have to change the calculations a little since it will not be for salt or fresh water.

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Badxtoss

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1323 on: January 19, 2017, 02:28:30 PM »

But if there is no pressure on the last person, or ball, then it isn't a closed system.  The would just get pushed away, then the next and so on. 
I used free fall to start in a completely black slate.  No outside forces except those being exerted by the people in the que.
Now, if you put a cap on the tube, or a back wall in the cue example, then it becomes a closed system.  But in such a closed system, the pressure would be equal on both ends.
You keep saying that Im not getting it, but you aren't showing where I am wrong.
I'll just keep dipping in with you, see if the penny drops.

In bold. Why are arches built?
I'm not an engineer, but my understanding is that they can carry a greater load then a cross beam.  I believe the spread the load out better and don't require one super strong lintel.
But what do you find incorrect about my statements on the examples given, or my given example?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1324 on: January 19, 2017, 02:58:54 PM »
Actually, the "crush" of the water wants to push the container up, not down.  It's called buoyancy and it's why dense objects feel lighter underwater, not heavier.
 
Yep  the water would have squeezed the empty jar up and made it buoyant.
What made it sink?
The jar sank because it was filled with a dense material, thereby affecting the overall density of the jar.


Actually, if you check the amount of water displaced, you will find that it weighs less than the weight of the jar.  That's why the jar sank. 

Here is s simple experiment to prove it:
1) put the container in a shallow pan
2) fill the container to the brim
3) take your metal cube and weigh it
4) put the cube into the container so that it overflows
5) weigh the water that spilled out of the container into the shallow pan

Repeat with metal cubes of different densities.

I guarantee you that if you did everything correctly, the water that was displaced (spilled out of the container) will weigh less than the cube.  Then again, I can also pretty much guarantee that you will never perform this experiment either.
Ok, use a block of wood and a block of metal of the exact same volume and let's see which one displaces more water.
Apparently you believe they both displace the same.
Try it out.
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.

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Mainframes

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1325 on: January 19, 2017, 03:09:04 PM »
Once completely submerged both wood and metal will displace the same volume of water.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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markjo

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1326 on: January 19, 2017, 03:31:12 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1327 on: January 19, 2017, 03:41:44 PM »

Is it or is it not the reason you said the experiments proposed here were flawed?  We can not measure the amount of water being absorbed.
It depends on how you look at it.
Wood absorbs water by atmospheric displacement. Metals can absorb water depending on the porosity but this would be in shallow water with little pressure. Then there's the more minute porosity which would be squeezed and basically forcing out the atmospheric pressure within the metal.
It's a bit more in depth (pardon the pun) but real.
If water is not being absorbed then the experiments demonstrate it is volume displacing the water and not the objects density. 
It appears that way but it's not strictly true. It's a dupe.
I also just selected steel as an example, but no metal absorbs water.
 
Yes it does but it's not worth going on about all the time.

I am guessing, but I imagine if enough pressure is involved it can.
Depends on the porosity in terms of size.
Just to give you an idea. Think of some metals that are deliberately made porous. Metals for absorption of oils and such for workings of machinery and bearing and such like.
I won't harp on because it's just going to go in another direction. We need to get back to basics.


 
That pressure is not something that occurs naturally on Earth.  Again for the sake of argument will will say it might at the deepest parts of the ocean or deep under the crust where pressures are higher.
Like I said above.
With that in mind the experiments conducted and proposed here demonstrate it is not density that displaces a medium, but volume in all conditions except the most extreme we are assuming absorption would occur.  Actually even then like a sponge it is still displacing based on volume and not density. 
The volume CANNOT displace water without it being a density to allow it to do that.
This is why it's a dupe.
The volume of a jar (for instance)that is sealed will displace the density of that jar.
Now it's easy to say " yes but if you push that jar down, then you see that the volume of it displaces the water.
This is not a true reflection on water displacement by that jar and will show a reading of the energy to push that jar down as in how much extra force required to immerse it.
Or you can add density to that volume as in the dense metal, then collect the water it all displaces to get a true reading of the density of the jar and the dense metal inside of it.

The only issue is in the case of not allowing the dense metal to take the jar down to a real depth of more pressure as we've discussed.

But the whole object of it would be to get a true reading of the dense metal in the jar and the jar itself and the only real way to do that is to immerse the jar and metal under the water and allow the water to fill the jar.
Or you can lay a platform on the water and measure the platforms displacement of it, then place the sealed jar and metal and air onto the platform to get a true displacement of water.

Denpressure.

Still unwilling to let us know one experiment that can be conducted to demonstrate denpressure? It is a question I have not seen you directly answer.  You only have said you did experiments, that you told others how to do them which I have not seen anywhere on this forum.
Balloons and metal blocks in a water barrel or tank of some sort, like I told you earlier in this thread.
Also I am thinking you do not understand why somethings float and some things do not.
I understand it fine so don't pull that crap. The only reason you're saying it is because you follow the robotic code of hard drive storage and recall parroting.
It is very simple. 
If something can displace more water than it weighs it floats.
That is why when you see the tonnage for a boat it is not what the boat the boat weighs, but the amount of water it can displace.  My boat displaces 20 tons.  Guess how much weight I can load on to my boat before it sinks?
20 tons?
So if you melted your boat down into a metal block, then how much water would your boat displace then?
Or assuming your boat is wooden, then turn that into a block and how much would that displace in tonnage?
It is also why if we would just take a solid block of steel and threw it into the water it would sink.  If we take that block of steel and increase its volume by making it hollow and into a hull it can float.  Not only that we can design it so not only can it remain positively buoyant not only with the steels mass we can load it with cargo, engines, fuel, water, electronics, beds, toilets, food, etc.

The reason being volume displaces the medium something is in and not its density.
Yep, you could fill the boat with enough mass to sink it and that mass would make your boat into a double the displacement of water, boat and now you have to make that into a double the size block to sink which displaces how much?
Actually with your model it should be possible to build a sky boat that stays aloft not needing hot air, helium or similar.  It would float using buoyancy since gravity does not exist.  My guess some material like balsa wood, graphite or maybe even aluminum should work.  It would just need to remain neutrally buoyant to float in the air at some air pressure since there is no gravity.
You basically answered your own question but made sure you disregarded the elements that prove it to be so. Nice one.  ;D
If I ever get really bored I might come up with a simple design and use the same calculations that are used for boats to see if it is possible.  I'll have to change the calculations a little since it will not be for salt or fresh water.
Maybe if you learn to think by yourself and  see where it takes you. You never know, you might end up actually realising a lot more as you go on.
Mind you, I can't blame you for taking the easy way out and trying to do your best to please your peers. It's a lonely road when you search for truth's or questions the accepted indoctrinated belief's.

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Badxtoss

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1328 on: January 19, 2017, 03:43:18 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
If the block of wood floats, that means it weighs as much as a duck.  Which means ITS A WITCH!BURN IT!

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1329 on: January 19, 2017, 03:49:55 PM »

But if there is no pressure on the last person, or ball, then it isn't a closed system.  The would just get pushed away, then the next and so on. 
I used free fall to start in a completely black slate.  No outside forces except those being exerted by the people in the que.
Now, if you put a cap on the tube, or a back wall in the cue example, then it becomes a closed system.  But in such a closed system, the pressure would be equal on both ends.
You keep saying that Im not getting it, but you aren't showing where I am wrong.
I'll just keep dipping in with you, see if the penny drops.

In bold. Why are arches built?
I'm not an engineer, but my understanding is that they can carry a greater load then a cross beam.  I believe the spread the load out better and don't require one super strong lintel.
But what do you find incorrect about my statements on the examples given, or my given example?
They spread the load of the atmospheric pressure upon their mass....but that is just an arch in the atmosphere.
A  cover of atmosphere for the Earth and keep in the atmosphere  in the way it does, it has to form a skin over it and a dome is the natural way this is done.
It is like a hemi bubble that forms in your sink on the water or on a surface, sort of thing.
A sealed unit with everything inside, including the pressure we are under as I explained.

This could not happen on a globe because a globe requires a full spherical covering with no foundation. It simply cannot happen.


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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1330 on: January 19, 2017, 03:54:09 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
Tell me something. What displaces the water when you place an object on it. Let's say, wood.
What is actually displacing the water in terms of pushing that wood down into the water to displace it?



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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1331 on: January 19, 2017, 03:57:06 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
If the block of wood floats, that means it weighs as much as a duck.  Which means ITS A WITCH!BURN IT!
Don't waste any more of your time replying to me. You are on the ignore list from this point on.
I'll maybe end up talking to you in another name you have until that one goes the same way. Until then you cease to exist.

Sokarul will fill you in on the details.
Posted by: Badxtoss
« on: Today at 10:28:30 PM »
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.


Just so we're clear.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 04:01:14 PM by sceptimatic »

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Mainframes

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1332 on: January 19, 2017, 03:59:13 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
Tell me something. What displaces the water when you place an object on it. Let's say, wood.
What is actually displacing the water in terms of pushing that wood down into the water to displace it?

Weight of the wood due to gravity.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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Badxtoss

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1333 on: January 19, 2017, 04:00:27 PM »

But if there is no pressure on the last person, or ball, then it isn't a closed system.  The would just get pushed away, then the next and so on. 
I used free fall to start in a completely black slate.  No outside forces except those being exerted by the people in the que.
Now, if you put a cap on the tube, or a back wall in the cue example, then it becomes a closed system.  But in such a closed system, the pressure would be equal on both ends.
You keep saying that Im not getting it, but you aren't showing where I am wrong.
I'll just keep dipping in with you, see if the penny drops.

In bold. Why are arches built?
I'm not an engineer, but my understanding is that they can carry a greater load then a cross beam.  I believe the spread the load out better and don't require one super strong lintel.
But what do you find incorrect about my statements on the examples given, or my given example?
They spread the load of the atmospheric pressure upon their mass....but that is just an arch in the atmosphere.
A  cover of atmosphere for the Earth and keep in the atmosphere  in the way it does, it has to form a skin over it and a dome is the natural way this is done.
It is like a hemi bubble that forms in your sink on the water or on a surface, sort of thing.
A sealed unit with everything inside, including the pressure we are under as I explained.

This could not happen on a globe because a globe requires a full spherical covering with no foundation. It simply cannot happen.
Ok.  For the moment I won't argue with the part about the globe having atmosphere.
Let's look at your soap bubble example.  The pressure inside that bubble will be relatively equal throughout.  In your other examples you said there was nothing on top of that highest spongeball, molecules, etc.  nothing to offer it any resistance.
So why isn't the pressure in this dome equal throughout and if there is nothing to offer resistence to the top layer, what is the dome actually made of.  And if it isn't offering any actual resistance, what is it doing?  How is it keeping things in?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1334 on: January 19, 2017, 04:02:11 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
Tell me something. What displaces the water when you place an object on it. Let's say, wood.
What is actually displacing the water in terms of pushing that wood down into the water to displace it?

Weight of the wood due to gravity.
Can you tell me how gravity acts on the wood in the water?

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Badxtoss

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1335 on: January 19, 2017, 04:02:18 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
If the block of wood floats, that means it weighs as much as a duck.  Which means ITS A WITCH!BURN IT!
Don't waste any more of your time replying to me. You are on the ignore list from this point on.
I'll maybe end up talking to you in another name you have until that one goes the same way. Until then you cease to exist.

Sokarul will fill you in on the details.
Posted by: Badxtoss
« on: Today at 10:28:30 PM »
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.


Just so we're clear.
That wasn't a reply to you.

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Badxtoss

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1336 on: January 19, 2017, 04:03:44 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
If the block of wood floats, that means it weighs as much as a duck.  Which means ITS A WITCH!BURN IT!
Come on guys, please tell me I'm not the only one that found this funny.

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Twerp

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1337 on: January 19, 2017, 04:08:30 PM »
I found it funny!
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

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Badxtoss

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1338 on: January 19, 2017, 04:11:25 PM »
I found it funny!
I knew you were a man of taste.

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markjo

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1339 on: January 19, 2017, 07:59:05 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
Tell me something. What displaces the water when you place an object on it. Let's say, wood.
The object that you place in the water displaces the water.

What is actually displacing the water in terms of pushing that wood down into the water to displace it?
Again, the wood is displacing the water.  That the wood is less dense than the water means that you need to push the wood block down in order to fully submerge it and fully displace the block's volume. 

Again, when the wood floats, it only displaces its own weight in water.  If you fully submerge the wood block, then it will displace its own volume in water which will weigh more than the block.  I'm not really sure why those are such difficult concepts to grasp.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1340 on: January 19, 2017, 10:42:34 PM »
The block of wood floats because it displaces more than its weight in water.  To find the wooden block's actual displacement, you need to push it down so that it's completely submerged and measure how much water spills out.
Now think about what you said.
I know exactly what I said.  Buoyancy is why the floating block will only displace its own weight of water.  You need to completely submerge the block to get it to displace its volume of water. 

I'm truly sorry if it's too much to expect you to understand the difference between displacement and buoyancy.  Maybe it would help if I pointed out that buoyancy is a force and displacement is not, but I doubt it.
Tell me something. What displaces the water when you place an object on it. Let's say, wood.
The object that you place in the water displaces the water.

What is actually displacing the water in terms of pushing that wood down into the water to displace it?
Again, the wood is displacing the water.  That the wood is less dense than the water means that you need to push the wood block down in order to fully submerge it and fully displace the block's volume. 

Again, when the wood floats, it only displaces its own weight in water.  If you fully submerge the wood block, then it will displace its own volume in water which will weigh more than the block.  I'm not really sure why those are such difficult concepts to grasp.
You're not answering the question. Deliberately, I know, so I'll ask again.

What acts on the wood on the water to make it displace water?

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Mainframes

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1341 on: January 20, 2017, 12:07:52 AM »
Gravity is trying to pull the wooden block down. When the block contacts the water it is still being pulled by gravity but now the pressure of water is trying to push it up. The greater the volume of the block that is submerged the greater the push due to pressure. Pressure pushing on the block is simply due to the impact of water molecules.

If the weight of an object is greater than the total push due to pressure then the object will sink as downwards force is greater than upwards force.

If the push due to pressure equals the pull due to gravity the block will float. The way buoyancy works is that the point at which an object floats is that the mass of water displaced will equal the mass of object.

If an object does not float then it will always displace its own volume. The cause of displacement simply being that two objects cant occupy the same space at the same time.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1342 on: January 20, 2017, 12:38:33 AM »
Gravity is trying to pull the wooden block down. When the block contacts the water it is still being pulled by gravity but now the pressure of water is trying to push it up.
Ok, so we have the water pushing the block up and gravity is pulling it down.
So can you tell me how gravity is pulling the wooden block down.
What's grabbing it under the water to pull it down and how does the water push it up.
Mainly I'd like to know what the gravity force is that's pulling on the wooden block.

The greater the volume of the block that is submerged the greater the push due to pressure. Pressure pushing on the block is simply due to the impact of water molecules.
So we have the pressure of the water. Can you explain how the displacement works with this water pressure and gravity pull, in really simple terms to show a reality.

If the weight of an object is greater than the total push due to pressure then the object will sink as downwards force is greater than upwards force.
What causes the weight?
If It's gravity then can you explain how gravity causes something to actually register a weight?


If the push due to pressure equals the pull due to gravity the block will float. The way buoyancy works is that the point at which an object floats is that the mass of water displaced will equal the mass of object.
Just keep elaborating with this gravity stuff to make yourself more clear. I keep asking so you change thought process so I can grasp this gravity pull thing, in water as water pushes.
It seems frightening how my denpressure cannot seem to be grasped and yet this gravity stuff appears to be so piss easy and yet there's never a real explanation.
Maybe I'm getting too far ahead with you and you may give me real answers, or already have done before this post.
I hope so.
If an object does not float then it will always displace its own volume. The cause of displacement simply being that two objects cant occupy the same space at the same time.
The volume bit is a good one really.
I mean a dense so called (by you people's mindsets) block of metal that is incompressible still has volume and naturally no matter what it will displace that volume it has, of water, whatever the final volume ends up as.
This is what I'm telling people about density volume and the dupe of air filled objects in sealed jars, etc displacing water in a shallow container, jug or whatever.

It's plain and simple why my thoughts are discarded.
If My thoughts were took serious then gravity would be destroyed and so would the globe.

The silly thing about it is, I get jumped by the big posse who cry foul on my thoughts and shout, "prove it scepti, show us how it works" and yet when I ask the same for their gravity, they simply say " it just is, ok...it pulls mass."

What's more silly is the amount of people who just refuse to question the supposed gravity force and just accept it against what I've stated and yet my theory has a real life answer.
It's mental to think that so many people on here go into rejection mode and yet people I talk to away from here can understand my theory quite clearly.

I find this strange in one way and predictable in another, which is why I do not trust the people on here.

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Gumby

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1343 on: January 20, 2017, 12:41:40 AM »
Actually, the "crush" of the water wants to push the container up, not down.  It's called buoyancy and it's why dense objects feel lighter underwater, not heavier.
 
Yep  the water would have squeezed the empty jar up and made it buoyant.
What made it sink?


Actually, if you check the amount of water displaced, you will find that it weighs less than the weight of the jar.  That's why the jar sank. 

Here is s simple experiment to prove it:
1) put the container in a shallow pan
2) fill the container to the brim
3) take your metal cube and weigh it
4) put the cube into the container so that it overflows
5) weigh the water that spilled out of the container into the shallow pan

Repeat with metal cubes of different densities.

I guarantee you that if you did everything correctly, the water that was displaced (spilled out of the container) will weigh less than the cube.  Then again, I can also pretty much guarantee that you will never perform this experiment either.
Ok, use a block of wood and a block of metal of the exact same volume and let's see which one displaces more water.
Apparently you believe they both displace the same.
Try it out.

Yes they will. Can you demonstrate otherwise?
How dumb can you be?
I think MH370 was hijacked and the persons who did the hijacking were indeed out to prove a flat earth.

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Mainframes

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1344 on: January 20, 2017, 12:48:04 AM »
Actually, the "crush" of the water wants to push the container up, not down.  It's called buoyancy and it's why dense objects feel lighter underwater, not heavier.
 
Yep  the water would have squeezed the empty jar up and made it buoyant.
What made it sink?


Actually, if you check the amount of water displaced, you will find that it weighs less than the weight of the jar.  That's why the jar sank. 

Here is s simple experiment to prove it:
1) put the container in a shallow pan
2) fill the container to the brim
3) take your metal cube and weigh it
4) put the cube into the container so that it overflows
5) weigh the water that spilled out of the container into the shallow pan

Repeat with metal cubes of different densities.

I guarantee you that if you did everything correctly, the water that was displaced (spilled out of the container) will weigh less than the cube.  Then again, I can also pretty much guarantee that you will never perform this experiment either.
Ok, use a block of wood and a block of metal of the exact same volume and let's see which one displaces more water.
Apparently you believe they both displace the same.
Try it out.

Yes they will. Can you demonstrate otherwise?

Sceptimatic is getting confused by the fact that wood tends to float and that what we are talking about is a fully submerged object.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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Twerp

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1345 on: January 20, 2017, 01:00:23 AM »

The reason I find it easier to believe gravity is what is attracting objects to the earth is because of the fact that a formulas have been derived to calculate this phenomenon and the effects of it.

I have personally used these formulas and find them to be accurate. I don't know of a single situation where they didn't hold true.

Neither gravity nor dens-pressure is my own idea, either one would be "just believing what I'm told." But if you want me to use my own brain like you're always harping about, my brain tells me to go with the theory that best explains reality and has the best predictive capabilities.

If a theory could be better shown to match reality than gravitational theory I would have no trouble accepting it.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 02:56:56 AM by Boots »
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1346 on: January 20, 2017, 02:50:04 AM »
Sceptimatic is getting confused by the fact that wood tends to float and that what we are talking about is a fully submerged object.
Correction: scepti is trying to confuse the issue by bring up wood - which is potentially porous and may float.  Everyone else is experimenting with blocks of metal.  He knows he's completely wrong on this, but is incapable of backing down, so he tries his usual technique of confusing the argument.

He could try experimenting with a well oiled block of lignum vitae if he really wants to.  Then again he has no interest in experimenting and learning about reality, just playing silly-arsed games on internet forums.
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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1347 on: January 20, 2017, 03:11:03 AM »
The reason I find it easier to believe gravity is what is attracting objects to the earth is because of the fact that a formulas have been derived to calculate this phenomenon and the effects of it.
What formulas do you know that physically prove gravity?
If you throw one up then just briefly explain how it tells you there is gravity.

I have personally used these formulas and find them to be accurate. I don't know of a single situation where they didn't hold true.
Great stuff, now show me or tell me how you used one to gain a accurate reading of something that proves gravity and not something else.

Neither gravity nor dens-pressure is my own idea, either one would be "just believing what I'm told." But if you want me to use my own brain like you're always harping about, my brain tells me to go with the theory that best explains reality and has the best predictive capabilities.
In a way yes, but you can physically test for atmospheric pressure.
Show me a real test for gravity that shows you it is gravity as a force.

If a theory could be better shown to match reality than gravitational theory I would have no trouble accepting it.
Clearly not.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1348 on: January 20, 2017, 03:14:22 AM »
Sceptimatic is getting confused by the fact that wood tends to float and that what we are talking about is a fully submerged object.
Correction: scepti is trying to confuse the issue by bring up wood - which is potentially porous and may float.  Everyone else is experimenting with blocks of metal.  He knows he's completely wrong on this, but is incapable of backing down, so he tries his usual technique of confusing the argument.

He could try experimenting with a well oiled block of lignum vitae if he really wants to.  Then again he has no interest in experimenting and learning about reality, just playing silly-arsed games on internet forums.
I am confusing the issue but not because I'm playing games. It's because the mainstream method has confused the real issue of what's really happening.
I'm just putting it right against massive resistance due to massive indoctrination, which is understandable.
I just rely on a hope that some people switch on their brains.
That doesn't mean people like you. I'm well aware of what you are.

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Twerp

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Re: Air Pressure vs Gravity
« Reply #1349 on: January 20, 2017, 03:50:32 AM »
The reason I find it easier to believe gravity is what is attracting objects to the earth is because of the fact that a formulas have been derived to calculate this phenomenon and the effects of it.
What formulas do you know that physically prove gravity?
If you throw one up then just briefly explain how it tells you there is gravity.

I have personally used these formulas and find them to be accurate. I don't know of a single situation where they didn't hold true.
Great stuff, now show me or tell me how you used one to gain a accurate reading of something that proves gravity and not something else.

Neither gravity nor dens-pressure is my own idea, either one would be "just believing what I'm told." But if you want me to use my own brain like you're always harping about, my brain tells me to go with the theory that best explains reality and has the best predictive capabilities.
In a way yes, but you can physically test for atmospheric pressure.
Show me a real test for gravity that shows you it is gravity as a force.

If a theory could be better shown to match reality than gravitational theory I would have no trouble accepting it.
Clearly not.

I did not say I knew any formulas that proved gravity.

One way that I use gravitational theory is to estimate heights by dropping a rock and timing it's descent.

d=1/2gt^2

When you're doing it quick you can just square the time in seconds and multiply by five to get your distance.

This does not prove gravity but gravitational theory explains how objects behave in a way that matches observation in reality.

Sure you can measure for atmospheric pressure but show me a real test for atmospheric pressure that shows you it is atmospheric pressure as a force.

I have never seen any equations or anything really, that I can use to verify if the dens-pressure model matches real world observations. So I don't know what you're basing the comment "clearly not" on.
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise