Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?

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1on0ne

  • 156
Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« on: December 05, 2016, 10:55:49 AM »
I wonder how they were able to sing together with the audio delay between them.

I took a live interview of Chris Hadfield around the same date (so that technology match) to measure the delay between the intervenant and the sound recorded in the ISS : the total is 2.39 seconds of delay speak-to-ear.



i don't know of any way to make two persons sing together with a 2.39 seconds delay. If Chris is delayed 2.39 seconds, then the band sound will arrive after 2.39 seconds in Chris ears and then the sound of Chris signing with arrive back to earth after twice that duration. 2.39 seconds seems not much but it is enormous when you try to play together.


here is the stupid song :



and the live feed i used to measure the delay between the audio speaker and the reception in the ISS




and the audio file (just to show i'm not making this up)
khaelis.com/downloads/s.wav

How about that?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 11:18:56 AM by 1on0ne »
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Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2016, 12:41:49 PM »
I wonder how they were able to sing together with the audio delay between them.

I took a live interview of Chris Hadfield around the same date (so that technology match) to measure the delay between the intervenant and the sound recorded in the ISS : the total is 2.39 seconds of delay speak-to-ear.



i don't know of any way to make two persons sing together with a 2.39 seconds delay. If Chris is delayed 2.39 seconds, then the band sound will arrive after 2.39 seconds in Chris ears and then the sound of Chris signing with arrive back to earth after twice that duration. 2.39 seconds seems not much but it is enormous when you try to play together.

If I understand your complaint correctly, you're basing it on the time it takes the echo of the uplinked audio to be heard back on the ground. That's a two-way delay, so, assuming it's symmetrical, the delay is half that, "only" about 1.2 seconds, at the ISS.

Why do you think the interview, which can easily tolerate a second of latency each way, and the musical program, which can't, use the same communications circuit? Some communication methods have more latency than others, but make up for it by being more efficient so it makes sense to use them when the latency doesn't matter.

Quote
here is the stupid song :

Are you disappointed that the ladies are neither bare nor naked?

Quote
How about that?

The song was OK, but hard to dance to.[nb]Typical comment on old "Hit Parade" TV shows from long ago. If you don't get it, don't worry about it.[/nb] Still, an interesting exercise, so why not?
 
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Pezevenk

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  • Militant aporfyrodrakonist
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2016, 12:45:38 PM »
FErs keep finding more and more absurd ways to prove their point...
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

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JackBlack

  • 23751
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2016, 02:27:39 PM »
It's quite simple. They aren't using the same timing for the 2.

If this was going to be a problem do you really think NASA would allow such a thing to air (assuming they were just faking it)?

Interviews with people on Earth can often have massive delays. It's just the shitty technology they use.

The ISS is at roughly 400 km.
The speed of light is 299792458 m/s, or 299792.458 km/s.
That means it would have a delay due to the transit time of roughly 1.3 ms.
If they had to get it from the opposite side of Earth, then that would be roughly 40 ms.

So no, the light time delay is not going to be significant.

Seriously, look at the delay between the interviewer and Houston.

People rarely start talking straight after the other person finishes.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30075
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2016, 03:02:18 PM »
Some desperate answers.
The real answer is that Hadfield isn't sat up in space with his silly guitar, singing songs in unison.

That's about as far as I want to argue about this because it really isn't worth the effort of trying to fend off the frenzied answers by the usual suspects.


Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2016, 05:15:07 PM »
Some real answers.
The desperate  answer is that Hadfield isn't sat up in space with his silly guitar, singing songs in unison.

That's about as far as I want to argue about this because it really isn't worth the effort of trying to fend off the frenzied answers by the usual suspects.
Corrected.

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JackBlack

  • 23751
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2016, 12:39:51 AM »
Some desperate answers.
The real answer is that Hadfield isn't sat up in space with his silly guitar, singing songs in unison.

That's about as far as I want to argue about this because it really isn't worth the effort of trying to fend off the frenzied answers by the usual suspects.

No. Some desperate attempts at pretending there is a massive problem.

If NASA was going to have a faked time delay to fake the ISS, they wouldn't allow something like this.

If you don't want to defend your BS claims, don't make them.

The real answer is that he is in space.

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1on0ne

  • 156
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2016, 02:44:08 AM »
I wonder how they were able to sing together with the audio delay between them.

I took a live interview of Chris Hadfield around the same date (so that technology match) to measure the delay between the intervenant and the sound recorded in the ISS : the total is 2.39 seconds of delay speak-to-ear.



i don't know of any way to make two persons sing together with a 2.39 seconds delay. If Chris is delayed 2.39 seconds, then the band sound will arrive after 2.39 seconds in Chris ears and then the sound of Chris signing with arrive back to earth after twice that duration. 2.39 seconds seems not much but it is enormous when you try to play together.

If I understand your complaint correctly, you're basing it on the time it takes the echo of the uplinked audio to be heard back on the ground. That's a two-way delay, so, assuming it's symmetrical, the delay is half that, "only" about 1.2 seconds, at the ISS.

Why do you think the interview, which can easily tolerate a second of latency each way, and the musical program, which can't, use the same communications circuit? Some communication methods have more latency than others, but make up for it by being more efficient so it makes sense to use them when the latency doesn't matter.

Quote
here is the stupid song :

Are you disappointed that the ladies are neither bare nor naked?

Quote
How about that?

The song was OK, but hard to dance to.[nb]Typical comment on old "Hit Parade" TV shows from long ago. If you don't get it, don't worry about it.[/nb] Still, an interesting exercise, so why not?
yes you're right it's 1.2 seconds but it is enough to throw someone out of sync
live fearlessly, love endlessly

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sir_awesome123

  • 277
  • proud NASA shill
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2016, 02:49:14 AM »
I wonder how they were able to sing together with the audio delay between them.

I took a live interview of Chris Hadfield around the same date (so that technology match) to measure the delay between the intervenant and the sound recorded in the ISS : the total is 2.39 seconds of delay speak-to-ear.



i don't know of any way to make two persons sing together with a 2.39 seconds delay. If Chris is delayed 2.39 seconds, then the band sound will arrive after 2.39 seconds in Chris ears and then the sound of Chris signing with arrive back to earth after twice that duration. 2.39 seconds seems not much but it is enormous when you try to play together.

If I understand your complaint correctly, you're basing it on the time it takes the echo of the uplinked audio to be heard back on the ground. That's a two-way delay, so, assuming it's symmetrical, the delay is half that, "only" about 1.2 seconds, at the ISS.

Why do you think the interview, which can easily tolerate a second of latency each way, and the musical program, which can't, use the same communications circuit? Some communication methods have more latency than others, but make up for it by being more efficient so it makes sense to use them when the latency doesn't matter.

Quote
here is the stupid song :

Are you disappointed that the ladies are neither bare nor naked?

Quote
How about that?

The song was OK, but hard to dance to.[nb]Typical comment on old "Hit Parade" TV shows from long ago. If you don't get it, don't worry about it.[/nb] Still, an interesting exercise, so why not?
yes you're right it's 1.2 seconds but it is enough to throw someone out of sync

delay or no delay, why would NASA allow him to do such a thing if it blew their whole operation? i find myself saying this much too often, i should really stop, but think logically about this "is it more likely that he was in space and just compensated for the latency of the more or less live connection, or that everyone on the earth is being lied to and the earth is flat".
"hey what are you doing?"
"nothing, just arguing with this dude, he thinks the earth is flat"
"no really, what are you doing?"

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JackBlack

  • 23751
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 02:54:08 AM »
yes you're right it's 1.2 seconds but it is enough to throw someone out of sync
And how much of that is just typical for conversations?

Try timing random conversations you have. Then measure the delay between the people.

Again, why would NASA allow it?

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1on0ne

  • 156
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2016, 02:57:10 AM »
yes you're right it's 1.2 seconds but it is enough to throw someone out of sync
And how much of that is just typical for conversations?

Try timing random conversations you have. Then measure the delay between the people.

Again, why would NASA allow it?

well you know most people didn't notice that there are delays or didn't make the correlation with the live song beeing in-sync (did you?), that's how they pull-up every other trick to fool us
live fearlessly, love endlessly

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JackBlack

  • 23751
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2016, 03:14:25 AM »
well you know most people didn't notice that there are delays or didn't make the correlation with the live song beeing in-sync (did you?), that's how they pull-up every other trick to fool us

If NASA was going to fake it and institute a delay in things like interviews, they would have the same setup used for everything else. The delay would either be pre-programmed or hardwired in.

As such, the more rational explanation is that the delay in the interview is caused by the technology used for the interview and normal delays in conversation.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2016, 04:09:54 AM »
Some desperate answers.
The real answer is that Hadfield isn't sat up in space with his silly guitar, singing songs in unison.

That's about as far as I want to argue about this because it really isn't worth the effort of trying to fend off the frenzied answers by the usual suspects.
Sounds like another desperate guess.

FEers motto: "If I can't understand it, it can't happen".
GEers motto: "If I can't understand it, I'll learn more to see if I can understand it".

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sir_awesome123

  • 277
  • proud NASA shill
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2016, 04:14:22 AM »
Some desperate answers.
The real answer is that Hadfield isn't sat up in space with his silly guitar, singing songs in unison.

That's about as far as I want to argue about this because it really isn't worth the effort of trying to fend off the frenzied answers by the usual suspects.
Sounds like another desperate guess.

FEers motto: "If I can't understand it, it can't happen".
GEers motto: "If I can't understand it, I'll learn more to see if I can understand it".

na dude you are giving them way too much credit.

FEers motto: "rule no. 1: the earth is flat" "rule no. 2: if proven otherwise refer to rule no. 1"
"hey what are you doing?"
"nothing, just arguing with this dude, he thinks the earth is flat"
"no really, what are you doing?"

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1on0ne

  • 156
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2016, 06:09:08 AM »

If NASA was going to fake it and institute a delay in things like interviews, they would have the same setup used for everything else. The delay would either be pre-programmed or hardwired in.


i don't think so, if they are not too dumb (hum, NASA dumb?) , they'll vary the time delay. So yes it's definitively a possibility that they added delays to make believe they are far away, but that same delay disappear magically when they need it to be, give me a break

Jeff
live fearlessly, love endlessly

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sir_awesome123

  • 277
  • proud NASA shill
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2016, 06:13:52 AM »

If NASA was going to fake it and institute a delay in things like interviews, they would have the same setup used for everything else. The delay would either be pre-programmed or hardwired in.


i don't think so, if they are not too dumb (hum, NASA dumb?) , they'll vary the time delay. So yes it's definitively a possibility that they added delays to make believe they are far away, but that same delay disappear magically when they need it to be, give me a break

Jeff

amazing, you have just completed the first portion of a typical argument. you have made a claim. this next part is where the flat earthers tend to have trouble: nobody cares unless you can prove it.
"hey what are you doing?"
"nothing, just arguing with this dude, he thinks the earth is flat"
"no really, what are you doing?"

*

JackBlack

  • 23751
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2016, 12:04:30 PM »

If NASA was going to fake it and institute a delay in things like interviews, they would have the same setup used for everything else. The delay would either be pre-programmed or hardwired in.


i don't think so, if they are not too dumb (hum, NASA dumb?) , they'll vary the time delay. So yes it's definitively a possibility that they added delays to make believe they are far away, but that same delay disappear magically when they need it to be, give me a break

Jeff

Yes, they can vary the time delay, either randomly or systematically, and have that all programmed in.
But they would limit it.

Remember, they have no need to make it magically disappear if it is all a show.
If they had to remove it for this it would raise massive flags.

Like I said, the light time delay is tiny.
The delay is more likely going to be because of the interview itself.

The lack of a delay doesn't mean they aren't in space.

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1on0ne

  • 156
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 04:05:08 AM »
The lack of a delay doesn't mean they aren't in space.

then how do you explain no delay please? Even when i'm on Skype at 500 miles from me, there is a rather large delay.
live fearlessly, love endlessly

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RocksEverywhere

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Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 06:28:07 AM »
The lack of a delay doesn't mean they aren't in space.

then how do you explain no delay please? Even when i'm on Skype at 500 miles from me, there is a rather large delay.
That's probably because your internet is shit. Or you're Skyping through a tin can telephone.
AMA: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=68045.0

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it's not real.


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1on0ne

  • 156
live fearlessly, love endlessly

Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2016, 10:51:39 AM »
I just said that if they used the new laser link it would be quick now, not back in 2013.

There is a logical solution, Chris Hadeld initiated the song and the earth part of the 'duo' was added in real time as it arrived on earth! Simple. Hadfield would not hear the full session, just his own part.

Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2016, 11:28:36 AM »
The lack of a delay doesn't mean they aren't in space.

then how do you explain no delay please? Even when i'm on Skype at 500 miles from me, there is a rather large delay.

I already did.

Some communication methods have more latency than others, but make up for it by being more efficient so it makes sense to use them when the latency doesn't matter.

Try calling the same place using a real telephone instead of skype. More expensive but no (perceptible) delay.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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JackBlack

  • 23751
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2016, 11:48:14 AM »
The lack of a delay doesn't mean they aren't in space.

then how do you explain no delay please? Even when i'm on Skype at 500 miles from me, there is a rather large delay.

That is because you are using a shitty connection.

The primary factor in determining delay is your connection quality.
If you have a good connection, you can get your delay down to a few ms or tens of ms. If you have a shit one, it can take much longer.


Another factor which may be considered under quality is how your signal travels and how many other signals are travelling there as well.
Your skype connection has to go from your computer or whatever, through a router, through a modem, through some kind of connection to an ISP, through loads of connecting points and then the same happening on the other end. That takes time.

Assuming the position was good, for NASA their connection requires going to their antennas and beaming it to the ISS which then receives it. Much simpler.
If it is poorly situated, they can either use crappy ground networks to get to a better spot to broadcast it or they can use satellites to daisy chain the signal.

Your few days comparison doesn't mean much as the ISS has an orbital period of roughly 90 minutes.

Calculate the actual delay required.

If they are positioned well, it will be 4 ms. (so 8 ms for a round trip).

The issue is not the data rate, it is the latency. If the data rate was going to be an issue the lag would get worse and worse as it slowly gets more and more of the data. It would be like trying to stream a youtube video with a dodgy connection.

And as southern hemispherer said, there is always the option of just adding on the "live" part after. Or having them done entirely separately and joining them.

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1on0ne

  • 156
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2016, 03:34:54 AM »

And as southern hemispherer said, there is always the option of just adding on the "live" part after.

you could do that for the audio, but the video is also in sync, that can't be faked

Quote
Or having them done entirely separately and joining them.
yes you can also argue that is is all CGI and nobody we seen exist really, it's a kinda bad argument if you tell me
live fearlessly, love endlessly

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30075
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2016, 03:49:18 AM »
I just said that if they used the new laser link it would be quick now, not back in 2013.

There is a logical solution, Chris Hadeld initiated the song and the earth part of the 'duo' was added in real time as it arrived on earth! Simple. Hadfield would not hear the full session, just his own part.
You mean a bit like the little  joystick operator back in Houston that panned the so called moon buggy camera onto the ascending LM?  ;D :P


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sir_awesome123

  • 277
  • proud NASA shill
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2016, 03:50:07 AM »

And as southern hemispherer said, there is always the option of just adding on the "live" part after.

you could do that for the audio, but the video is also in sync, that can't be faked

Quote
Or having them done entirely separately and joining them.
yes you can also argue that is is all CGI and nobody we seen exist really, it's a kinda bad argument if you tell me

no a bad argument would be claiming that NASA has managed to deceive the entire world about the shape of the earth amongst many other things, but blew it by not adding a delay to a live feed that they have thus far added to every other feed and even openly publish.
"hey what are you doing?"
"nothing, just arguing with this dude, he thinks the earth is flat"
"no really, what are you doing?"

*

1on0ne

  • 156
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2016, 04:41:52 AM »

And as southern hemispherer said, there is always the option of just adding on the "live" part after.

you could do that for the audio, but the video is also in sync, that can't be faked

Quote
Or having them done entirely separately and joining them.
yes you can also argue that is is all CGI and nobody we seen exist really, it's a kinda bad argument if you tell me

no a bad argument would be claiming that NASA has managed to deceive the entire world about the shape of the earth amongst many other things, but blew it by not adding a delay to a live feed that they have thus far added to every other feed and even openly publish.

people would react if suddently the delay was off during an interview live on the ISS, but with 'live' music all kind of stuff could happen, that's basically what you've all been answered, plus i suppose NASA thinks masses are dumb (aren't they) and they would not notice anyway. Only 10 people would notice and do what? start a revolution with 10 people?

plus it's on TV, *everything* on TV is real anyway  ;D

and i don't see NASA lying about us beeing LIVE nononono just *impossible*
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 04:45:13 AM by 1on0ne »
live fearlessly, love endlessly

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sir_awesome123

  • 277
  • proud NASA shill
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2016, 06:00:21 AM »

And as southern hemispherer said, there is always the option of just adding on the "live" part after.

you could do that for the audio, but the video is also in sync, that can't be faked

Quote
Or having them done entirely separately and joining them.
yes you can also argue that is is all CGI and nobody we seen exist really, it's a kinda bad argument if you tell me

no a bad argument would be claiming that NASA has managed to deceive the entire world about the shape of the earth amongst many other things, but blew it by not adding a delay to a live feed that they have thus far added to every other feed and even openly publish.

people would react if suddently the delay was off during an interview live on the ISS, but with 'live' music all kind of stuff could happen, that's basically what you've all been answered, plus i suppose NASA thinks masses are dumb (aren't they) and they would not notice anyway. Only 10 people would notice and do what? start a revolution with 10 people?

plus it's on TV, *everything* on TV is real anyway  ;D

and i don't see NASA lying about us beeing LIVE nononono just *impossible*

you don't fool the world by being so careless
"hey what are you doing?"
"nothing, just arguing with this dude, he thinks the earth is flat"
"no really, what are you doing?"

?

frenat

  • 3752
Re: Chris Hadfield and Barenaked Ladies Live : how about the delay?
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2016, 06:10:40 AM »
I just said that if they used the new laser link it would be quick now, not back in 2013.

There is a logical solution, Chris Hadeld initiated the song and the earth part of the 'duo' was added in real time as it arrived on earth! Simple. Hadfield would not hear the full session, just his own part.
You mean a bit like the little  joystick operator back in Houston that panned the so called moon buggy camera onto the ascending LM?  ;D :P
Because sending the signal to pan up at 2 seconds before liftoff is impossible?   ::)