Where is the sun in this photo?

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Where is the sun in this photo?
« on: December 02, 2016, 12:14:04 PM »
I'm curious where you think the sun is in this photo.  Last time I checked Stellarium puts it halfway under the horizon.  I took this picture when beginning FE research years ago, because it seemed impossible for the 'full' moon and the sun to both be so high above the horizon at the same time.

This picture was taken at 8/8/2014 8:03PM at 30.0799 N, 95.4172 W



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narcberry

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2016, 01:15:28 PM »
In the sky, like always

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RocksEverywhere

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2016, 01:27:22 PM »
In the sky, like always
Another victory for Sky Sun Theory!!!
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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2016, 01:46:48 PM »
...just another proof globe calculations do not always match reality.

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JackBlack

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2016, 03:11:53 PM »
I'm curious where you think the sun is in this photo.  Last time I checked Stellarium puts it halfway under the horizon.  I took this picture when beginning FE research years ago, because it seemed impossible for the 'full' moon and the sun to both be so high above the horizon at the same time.

This picture was taken at 8/8/2014 8:03PM at 30.0799 N, 95.4172 W



I can't see the sun in that picture.

It could be behind those clouds.
Or it could be below them and the light you see coming from it is merely being reflected off them.

According to suncalc.org, it should be roughly 0.67 degrees above the horizon.

Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2016, 03:35:12 PM »
I'm curious where you think the sun is in this photo.  Last time I checked Stellarium puts it halfway under the horizon. 

This picture was taken at 8/8/2014 8:03PM at 30.0799 N, 95.4172 W



It's not possible to tell from the photo because of the clouds, trees, and cars in the way. Where do you think it is, and why?

Stellarium says the sun appeared a little less than 1 above the horizon at that time and location. Its apparent center is 0 52' (see apparent Az/Alt in the screenshot below), but that would vary slightly with refraction. Without refraction it would be just below 0.5 above the horizon (geometric Az/Alt).



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I took this picture when beginning FE research years ago, because it seemed impossible for the 'full' moon and the sun to both be so high above the horizon at the same time.

The moon was almost two days from full at that time. The US Naval Observatory shows that it rose on that date at 6:19 CDT - almost two hours earlier - and wouldn't be full until 1:09 PM CDT on Aug 10. It was 93% illuminated on the 8th.

USNO also gives sunset time for Houston as 8:09 PM CDT on that date, about six minutes later. Their location for Houston is a little south and east of the given coordinates, so sunset at the specified location would be slightly later, but likely within the same minute.

...just another proof globe calculations do not always match reality.

They don't match the OPs perception of reality, but appear quite consistent with his observations as described.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2016, 05:53:51 PM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...



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sir_awesome123

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2016, 06:12:08 PM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...




so what the sun is above the clouds the shadow is below me, this strikes me as rather logical so i must be missing something
"hey what are you doing?"
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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2016, 06:32:47 PM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...



so what the sun is above the clouds the shadow is below me, this strikes me as rather logical so i must be missing something

Correct. It means Stellarium must be off in its position of the sun, I would estimate by 5 degrees or more in this case. That would be a big blow to the globe earth, and its infallible calculations imho.  Also, if it is incorrect this time, how many other times is it incorrect and by how much and why.  Maybe the earth is not a globe?  :-\

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sir_awesome123

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2016, 06:45:23 PM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...



so what the sun is above the clouds the shadow is below me, this strikes me as rather logical so i must be missing something

Correct. It means Stellarium must be off in its position of the sun, I would estimate by 5 degrees or more in this case. That would be a big blow to the globe earth, and its infallible calculations imho.  Also, if it is incorrect this time, how many other times is it incorrect and by how much and why.  Maybe the earth is not a globe?  :-\

i'm from louisiana, my family and i go hunting all the time and sometimes we'll go to larger reserves that are almost always public. sometimes the officials will ask you when sundown is, because shooting after sundown is very illegal and very dangerous. so before we go to a reserve my dad looks up when sundown is that day. never once has he been wrong and i'm assuming that if such a well used sight were ever wrong people would definitely call them out on it.

it is much more likely that you are wrong about the time of that picture than it is that the whole world is wrong about the shape of the earth.
"hey what are you doing?"
"nothing, just arguing with this dude, he thinks the earth is flat"
"no really, what are you doing?"

Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2016, 06:56:09 PM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...



so what the sun is above the clouds the shadow is below me, this strikes me as rather logical so i must be missing something

Correct. It means Stellarium must be off in its position of the sun, I would estimate by 5 degrees or more in this case. That would be a big blow to the globe earth, and its infallible calculations imho.  Also, if it is incorrect this time, how many other times is it incorrect and by how much and why.  Maybe the earth is not a globe?  :-\

i'm from louisiana, my family and i go hunting all the time and sometimes we'll go to larger reserves that are almost always public. sometimes the officials will ask you when sundown is, because shooting after sundown is very illegal and very dangerous. so before we go to a reserve my dad looks up when sundown is that day. never once has he been wrong and i'm assuming that if such a well used sight were ever wrong people would definitely call them out on it.

it is much more likely that you are wrong about the time of that picture than it is that the whole world is wrong about the shape of the earth.

Do you go hunting 365 days a year?  I'm not saying it happens all the time however it does happen.  The time of these photographs cannot be wrong, but you and everyone else reading this are free to believe whatever you want.

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sir_awesome123

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2016, 07:18:36 PM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...



so what the sun is above the clouds the shadow is below me, this strikes me as rather logical so i must be missing something

Correct. It means Stellarium must be off in its position of the sun, I would estimate by 5 degrees or more in this case. That would be a big blow to the globe earth, and its infallible calculations imho.  Also, if it is incorrect this time, how many other times is it incorrect and by how much and why.  Maybe the earth is not a globe?  :-\

i'm from louisiana, my family and i go hunting all the time and sometimes we'll go to larger reserves that are almost always public. sometimes the officials will ask you when sundown is, because shooting after sundown is very illegal and very dangerous. so before we go to a reserve my dad looks up when sundown is that day. never once has he been wrong and i'm assuming that if such a well used sight were ever wrong people would definitely call them out on it.

it is much more likely that you are wrong about the time of that picture than it is that the whole world is wrong about the shape of the earth.

Do you go hunting 365 days a year?  I'm not saying it happens all the time however it does happen.  The time of these photographs cannot be wrong, but you and everyone else reading this are free to believe whatever you want.

no, it's not legal to go hunting 365 days a year.

no you are suggesting that it happens, cosmic events are extremely predictable. we have had the sun down for a while. i can tell you what time the sun will set anywhere on the earth down to the minute as far into the future as you want and we can have this debate again then when i'm right.

the time of your photos can for sure be wrong, your'e a flat earth conspiracist with a clear bias. you want to prove that the earth is flat and there are no real repercussions for falsifying evidence here, especially when there is no way to prove that you are falsifying said evidence. again i say that it is more likely that you are wrong about the time of the photo than it is that everyone on earth is wrong about it's shape.

and that is the single worst debate strategy ever made; "believe it or don't, i don't care". the verbal equivalent of backing away with your hands up after picking a fight. for the record i choose not to believe it.
"hey what are you doing?"
"nothing, just arguing with this dude, he thinks the earth is flat"
"no really, what are you doing?"

Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2016, 08:30:19 PM »

and that is the single worst debate strategy ever made; "believe it or don't, i don't care". the verbal equivalent of backing away with your hands up after picking a fight. for the record i choose not to believe it.

What is it you suggest I do exactly.

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sir_awesome123

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2016, 09:28:27 PM »

and that is the single worst debate strategy ever made; "believe it or don't, i don't care". the verbal equivalent of backing away with your hands up after picking a fight. for the record i choose not to believe it.

What is it you suggest I do exactly.

if you  make a claim you should stand by it, if you can't defend it you should change your opinion. i'm happy to admit i'm wrong and change my world view. however this requires facts and evidence.
"hey what are you doing?"
"nothing, just arguing with this dude, he thinks the earth is flat"
"no really, what are you doing?"

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sokarul

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2016, 10:43:07 PM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...



That is a picture of the moon. Notice how there is no flaring and if you zoom in it's not a perfect circle?
Moon rise was 6:19pm that day.

Any other questions? 
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JackBlack

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2016, 11:10:53 PM »
The 2 pictures have significantly different lighting.

As such, I have pretty much no reason to assume they are at the same time.

You are coming here claiming this is proof that calculations based upon a globe don't match reality.
As such, the burden of proof is entirely upon you.

We aren't telling you to just trust us. We are saying we don't trust you enough to take it as proof.

Especially as the Flat Earth model suffers from a much bigger problem with the sun, such as why it sets at all.

Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2016, 08:42:53 AM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...



That is a picture of the moon. Notice how there is no flaring and if you zoom in it's not a perfect circle?
Moon rise was 6:19pm that day.

Any other questions?

We're not talking about the moon  ???

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sokarul

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2016, 09:19:11 AM »
Then why did you post a picture of the moon?
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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2016, 11:31:55 AM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Then why did you show the picture? It doesn't show the sun, but the colors suggest it's low on the horizon behind the two darker clouds and trees, exactly where it would be expected in the stated circumstances.

That was almost 2 1/2 years ago; maybe you're remembering incorrectly.

Quote

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...

https://s11.postimg.org/udxbzk6jn/8_8_2014_20_05.jpg
Whatever the white dot is, it isn't the sun. Maybe, as suggested, it's the nearly-full moon, or maybe the sun is behind that little cloud and is responsible for the bright spot, and the white dot is a lens flare. Given that the foreground is correctly exposed, if that white dot was the unobscured sun, it would be completely blown out.

It certainly wasn't taken looking in the same direction from the same general location two minutes later than the other picture. If nothing else, where did all the clouds in the previous picture go in those two minutes?

I presume the dates and times you're telling us are from the images' time stamps. How accurately was the camera's clock set? Were they geocoded and that's how you know the location?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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JackBlack

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2016, 11:42:24 AM »
I presume the dates and times you're telling us are from the images' time stamps. How accurately was the camera's clock set? Were they geocoded and that's how you know the location?
Unfortunately all that lovely metadata is missing.

Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2016, 12:28:32 PM »
Then why did you post a picture of the moon?

This is a picture of the moon, but the reflection of the sun in the cloud is pretty obvious is it not?

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wise

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2016, 12:32:14 PM »
Another victory for us.  :)
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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2016, 12:45:33 PM »

Where do you think it is, and why?


I remember the sun being very high above the horizon. 

Then why did you show the picture? It doesn't show the sun, but the colors suggest it's low on the horizon behind the two darker clouds and trees, exactly where it would be expected in the stated circumstances.

That was almost 2 1/2 years ago; maybe you're remembering incorrectly.

Quote

Maybe you could explain this picture taken at 8/8/2014 8:05PM at the same location.  Notice the shadows underneath the cloud where the sun is reflected...

https://s11.postimg.org/udxbzk6jn/8_8_2014_20_05.jpg


It certainly wasn't taken looking in the same direction from the same general location two minutes later than the other picture. If nothing else, where did all the clouds in the previous picture go in those two minutes?

I presume the dates and times you're telling us are from the images' time stamps. How accurately was the camera's clock set? Were they geocoded and that's how you know the location?

Correct. The second picture was taken in the direction of the moon. 

Yes, the dates and times are taken from the image's time stamps.  I erased them when uploading.  The camera is an is an Iphone so I have to assume the times are correct. 

Say I were to prove the dates/ times to the degree of which is explained, would it make a difference?  Can you say without any doubt the images do indeed show there is a problem with the sun's location in Stellarium?

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sokarul

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2016, 12:59:23 PM »
Sunsets exist. As does cloud illumination after the sun has set behind the horizon.
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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2016, 01:01:20 PM »
I forget, are you the bendy light expert?

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sokarul

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2016, 01:02:48 PM »
No. It's simple geometry.
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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2016, 01:12:49 PM »
So the light of the sun is bending around the sphere earth and forming a reflection onto a cloud.   ::)  Sokarul geometry is very fascinating.  Tell me more

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sokarul

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2016, 01:16:46 PM »
Yes some of that. Also higher objects will still have a line of sight to the sun. How do you not know this?
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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2016, 01:20:44 PM »
Get back to me when you figure out how shadows work.

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JackBlack

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Re: Where is the sun in this photo?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2016, 01:40:06 PM »
So the light of the sun is bending around the sphere earth and forming a reflection onto a cloud.   ::)  Sokarul geometry is very fascinating.  Tell me more
No. As the cloud is higher than you, the tangent to the Earth that it would be on would have the sun visible after sunset.