Sky is pushing us as how sea is lifting up the ships

You are yet to explain why "air pressure" pushes some things down, but other things up.

It's simply down to the density of the object pushing into the atmosphere above. That object displaces it's own density/mass.
The same applies to water. You displace your own mass. You understand this.
On Earth you compress the air you are stood/laid in. That air is placed back onto you, as in it pushes back against you .

This does not explain it at all.
Why do objects displace their own mass?
From where are they displacing it and where is it going?
Or to put it in other words, why does it displace it in one particular direction?
Why does it have anything to do with density/mass rather than area?
After all, pressure is a force per unit area, not per unit mass.

This makes sense in a gravitational well, where gravity is forcing you down. It doesn't make sense when it is meant to be air pressure, as in the air, you feel that the same from all sides. (yes, there is a tiny difference, but that would push you up).

It basically squeezes you and keeps you down because your body is made up of more dense particles than what is directly above you and so you cannot overcome them.

No. If my particles are more dense I can easily overcome the air. And guess what? I can, by jumping, at which point the air pushes in from everywhere, but I still fall down, WHY?

However if you were to be able to expand your body to mammoth proportions...and I mean mammoth proportions, you would eventually be squeezed up because you molecules in your body would be expanded beyond the area where the dense atmosphere has hold and so you get squeezed up.
That's why helium balloons float up.

Again, it isn't the molecules which expand.
Again, this would increase my area, so why would I be pushed down less?

I'll answer this next one and then you can carry on one question at a time from there.
You can't even explain why the air stays put rather than just flying off to space.

It's stacked into a dome and the dome keeps the atmosphere under pressure, because the dome is frozen against a true vacuum.

Ok there's your first two questions answered.

Not really. You only answered one question.
And that one was more of a baseless assertion, but it is at least an explanation so I will accept that as part of your model (but proof of its existence would be much better).

So I will ask again, why does it force you down (lets just focus on that, rather than asking why some things go up instead)?

Your indoctrinated system is a ball with a supposed thin circling atmosphere that apparently loses hydrogen and helium, etc to space...somehow and yet it also keeps a pressure for some reason. How?

No. Our system based upon reality.
It is loosing these gasses at a very slow rate and is getting bombarded with gas from the sun at the same time.

As for the extreme low pressure environment of the so called vacuum container you mention. It's still the same answer.
You place an object in it and that object is still being pushed to the deck as it pushes up.
Note an object expanding as the pressure is reduced.
The low pressure area has to be filled by expansion of matter that still stacks from the bottom up.

No. The object doesn't' expand if it is a solid object like a steel ball.
And again, why the bottom. Why not the walls?

i'm so confused, are these people trying to reinterpret how density works? things heavier things tend to be below lighter things. we know this, we have known this for a long long long time. didn't your teacher ever do the thing where she puts liquids of different densities in a cylinder and they separate accordingly? damn, you people will come up with anything

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on December 05, 2016, 12:21:47 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 10:33:34 AM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on December 05, 2016, 09:50:03 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 03, 2016, 03:35:18 PM

Try and open a plane door in flight and you'd need to be the incredible hulk. Why?
Because air pressure is keeping that door firmly clamped, as well as the obvious locking mechanism.

That's funny, because it's the exact opposite of what actually happens.

Brush up a little bit and even take a plane ride and see it in action.
The hatch is like a sink plug from inside not outside..

Is your argument seriously a subjective opinion of how an airplane door appears to you? Are airplane manufacturers and people who have been in decompression accidents all in the conspiracy as well? Because it's the exact opposite of what happens. Airplane doors have to have powerful locking mechanisms, because the pressure inside the cabin is higher than the outside, which means that if there's a failing, the door may be sucked outwards, and all sorts of nasty stuff can happen, like this:



Or this:



Or... these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontrolled_decompression#Notable_decompression_accidents_and_incidents

So sorry mate, you're completely wrong on that.

You need to try reading what I actually said.

You said something completely wrong, and no reading will make it right.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 02:55:53 PM

You are yet to explain why "air pressure" pushes some things down, but other things up.

It's simply down to the density of the object pushing into the atmosphere above. That object displaces it's own density/mass.
The same applies to water. You displace your own mass. You understand this.
On Earth you compress the air you are stood/laid in. That air is placed back onto you, as in it pushes back against you .

This does not explain it at all.
Why do objects displace their own mass?
From where are they displacing it and where is it going?
Or to put it in other words, why does it displace it in one particular direction?
Why does it have anything to do with density/mass rather than area?
After all, pressure is a force per unit area, not per unit mass.

This makes sense in a gravitational well, where gravity is forcing you down. It doesn't make sense when it is meant to be air pressure, as in the air, you feel that the same from all sides. (yes, there is a tiny difference, but that would push you up).

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 02:55:53 PM

It basically squeezes you and keeps you down because your body is made up of more dense particles than what is directly above you and so you cannot overcome them.

No. If my particles are more dense I can easily overcome the air. And guess what? I can, by jumping, at which point the air pushes in from everywhere, but I still fall down, WHY?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 02:55:53 PM

However if you were to be able to expand your body to mammoth proportions...and I mean mammoth proportions, you would eventually be squeezed up because you molecules in your body would be expanded beyond the area where the dense atmosphere has hold and so you get squeezed up.
That's why helium balloons float up.

Again, it isn't the molecules which expand.
Again, this would increase my area, so why would I be pushed down less?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 02:55:53 PM

I'll answer this next one and then you can carry on one question at a time from there.
You can't even explain why the air stays put rather than just flying off to space.

It's stacked into a dome and the dome keeps the atmosphere under pressure, because the dome is frozen against a true vacuum.

Ok there's your first two questions answered.

Not really. You only answered one question.
And that one was more of a baseless assertion, but it is at least an explanation so I will accept that as part of your model (but proof of its existence would be much better).

So I will ask again, why does it force you down (lets just focus on that, rather than asking why some things go up instead)?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 11:54:35 PM

Your indoctrinated system is a ball with a supposed thin circling atmosphere that apparently loses hydrogen and helium, etc to space...somehow and yet it also keeps a pressure for some reason. How?

No. Our system based upon reality.
It is loosing these gasses at a very slow rate and is getting bombarded with gas from the sun at the same time.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 11:54:35 PM

As for the extreme low pressure environment of the so called vacuum container you mention. It's still the same answer.
You place an object in it and that object is still being pushed to the deck as it pushes up.
Note an object expanding as the pressure is reduced.
The low pressure area has to be filled by expansion of matter that still stacks from the bottom up.

No. The object doesn't' expand if it is a solid object like a steel ball.
And again, why the bottom. Why not the walls?

I really can't be arsed to answer you. Yeah I know, you'll shout that I can't answer and all that crap but the truth is I asked you to pose one question at a time and you simply cannot do it, so take your questions elsewhere or basically stick to your indoctrination rigidly, like you are hell bent on doing anyway.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 02:28:37 PM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on December 05, 2016, 12:21:47 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 10:33:34 AM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on December 05, 2016, 09:50:03 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 03, 2016, 03:35:18 PM

Try and open a plane door in flight and you'd need to be the incredible hulk. Why?
Because air pressure is keeping that door firmly clamped, as well as the obvious locking mechanism.

That's funny, because it's the exact opposite of what actually happens.

Brush up a little bit and even take a plane ride and see it in action.
The hatch is like a sink plug from inside not outside..

Is your argument seriously a subjective opinion of how an airplane door appears to you? Are airplane manufacturers and people who have been in decompression accidents all in the conspiracy as well? Because it's the exact opposite of what happens. Airplane doors have to have powerful locking mechanisms, because the pressure inside the cabin is higher than the outside, which means that if there's a failing, the door may be sucked outwards, and all sorts of nasty stuff can happen, like this:



Or this:



Or... these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontrolled_decompression#Notable_decompression_accidents_and_incidents

So sorry mate, you're completely wrong on that.

You need to try reading what I actually said.

You said something completely wrong, and no reading will make it right.

Tell me or show me where I've said something wrong instead of harping on about it.

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on December 06, 2016, 06:05:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 02:28:37 PM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on December 05, 2016, 12:21:47 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 10:33:34 AM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on December 05, 2016, 09:50:03 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 03, 2016, 03:35:18 PM

Try and open a plane door in flight and you'd need to be the incredible hulk. Why?
Because air pressure is keeping that door firmly clamped, as well as the obvious locking mechanism.

That's funny, because it's the exact opposite of what actually happens.

Brush up a little bit and even take a plane ride and see it in action.
The hatch is like a sink plug from inside not outside..

Is your argument seriously a subjective opinion of how an airplane door appears to you? Are airplane manufacturers and people who have been in decompression accidents all in the conspiracy as well? Because it's the exact opposite of what happens. Airplane doors have to have powerful locking mechanisms, because the pressure inside the cabin is higher than the outside, which means that if there's a failing, the door may be sucked outwards, and all sorts of nasty stuff can happen, like this:



Or this:



Or... these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontrolled_decompression#Notable_decompression_accidents_and_incidents

So sorry mate, you're completely wrong on that.

You need to try reading what I actually said.

You said something completely wrong, and no reading will make it right.

Tell me or show me where I've said something wrong instead of harping on about it.

It's exactly what my posts were referring to. That's funny, you accused me of not reading your post, but you are the one who didn't read mine.

Tell me what I said. Just bring up the part where I've said something wrong and let's see. If not then just deck out and stop acting like sokarul, unless you are him.

Tell me what I said. Just bring up the part where I've said something wrong and let's see. If not then just deck out and stop acting like sokarul, unless you are him.

"Try and open a plane door in flight and you'd need to be the incredible hulk. Why?
Because air pressure is keeping that door firmly clamped, as well as the obvious locking mechanism."

Air pressure is pushing the door out of the airplane, and the lock mechanism keeps it there. There are two kinds of airplane door designs, those that open from the outside and those that open from the inside. You'll find that most open from the outside. You're probably referring to plug doors, which is a door design sometimes used, and I grant you that in this case you'd be right.

Back when I was flying on JSTARS, the doors on the plane opened from the inside.  However, the latch is designed to release pressure just by turning the handle.  We had a set emergency procedure on the jet to crack the rear door if there was smoke on the jet to vent it.  We practiced emergency procedures on every training flight and I specifically remember practicing that one.  It was not hard to open.

Back when I was flying on JSTARS, the doors on the plane opened from the inside.  However, the latch is designed to release pressure just by turning the handle.  We had a set emergency procedure on the jet to crack the rear door if there was smoke on the jet to vent it.  We practiced emergency procedures on every training flight and I specifically remember practicing that one.  It was not hard to open.

Well, obviously in passenger aircrafts with plug doors, that's not an awfully good idea to do that. I found that generally in older aircrafts standard doors open from the outside, BUT emergency doors are plug doors.

I really can't be arsed to answer you. Yeah I know, you'll shout that I can't answer and all that crap but the truth is I asked you to pose one question at a time and you simply cannot do it, so take your questions elsewhere or basically stick to your indoctrination rigidly, like you are hell bent on doing anyway.

I was responding to your post.
If you only want me to make one question at a time, then only make one piece of a response at a time.

Rather than bringing up loads of crap to try and overwhelm me and expecting me to just focus on one bit, bring up one thing.
It is quite arrogant of you to expect to be able to post a load of crap and not expect me to point out everything wrong with it.

If you just want one thing, then you post one thing.

Tell me why air pressure pushes things in mid air down, when there is roughly equal pressure exerted on all sides.

Don't post loads of crap, just bring it up one bit at a time.

And just incase that last post was too long:

Tell me why air pressure pushes an object in mid air down even though the pressure is the same on all sides.

Just answer this, don't post a bunch of crap.

Tell me why air pressure pushes an object in mid air down even though the pressure is the same on all sides.

Because atmosphere is stacked from bottom up. It is compressed by molecular numbers leaving the bottom more dense and the top much less.
Any object denser than the surrounding atmosphere that is PLACED within it, will be squeezed back down due to the object compressing the atmosphere it finds itself in.
Basically it displaces it's own mass of atmosphere which is transferred back against it.

Think about what I've said before you go into can't grasp mode.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 06, 2016, 06:25:47 AM

Tell me what I said. Just bring up the part where I've said something wrong and let's see. If not then just deck out and stop acting like sokarul, unless you are him.

"Try and open a plane door in flight and you'd need to be the incredible hulk. Why?
Because air pressure is keeping that door firmly clamped, as well as the obvious locking mechanism."

Air pressure is pushing the door out of the airplane, and the lock mechanism keeps it there. There are two kinds of airplane door designs, those that open from the outside and those that open from the inside. You'll find that most open from the outside. You're probably referring to plug doors, which is a door design sometimes used, and I grant you that in this case you'd be right.

Like I said, you need to read what I said and it seems you have but are trying to make out I might have meant plug doors when you can clearly see I meant just that.

Here's the full wording you only quoted a little bit of.

What is a submarine full of?
The answer, as you should know, is compressed air. Just like a planes doors act like a tapered sink plug to aid in keeping that pressurised.
Try and open a plane door in flight and you'd need to be the incredible hulk. Why?
Because air pressure is keeping that door firmly clamped, as well as the obvious locking mechanism.
A submarine is an underwater plane with the opposite going on. It's hatches open out because the water pressure is greater than the internal pressure of the sub.

Quote from: JackBlack on December 06, 2016, 12:56:13 PM

Tell me why air pressure pushes an object in mid air down even though the pressure is the same on all sides.

Because atmosphere is stacked from bottom up. It is compressed by molecular numbers leaving the bottom more dense and the top much less.
Any object denser than the surrounding atmosphere that is PLACED within it, will be squeezed back down due to the object compressing the atmosphere it finds itself in.
Basically it displaces it's own mass of atmosphere which is transferred back against it.

Think about what I've said before you go into can't grasp mode.

That doesn't explain it at all.
You raise the issue of why it is stacked from the bottom up, rather than uniform, the tiny extent of the change a typical object will experience, and still have no explanation for why it squeezes objects down (and why it appeals to density, rather than area).
Can you explain any of it?

Why doesn't it squeeze objects up into the lower density atmosphere where it would be easier to displace its volume as less mass needs to be displaced?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 06, 2016, 04:42:18 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on December 06, 2016, 12:56:13 PM

Tell me why air pressure pushes an object in mid air down even though the pressure is the same on all sides.

Because atmosphere is stacked from bottom up. It is compressed by molecular numbers leaving the bottom more dense and the top much less.
Any object denser than the surrounding atmosphere that is PLACED within it, will be squeezed back down due to the object compressing the atmosphere it finds itself in.
Basically it displaces it's own mass of atmosphere which is transferred back against it.

Think about what I've said before you go into can't grasp mode.

That doesn't explain it at all.
You raise the issue of why it is stacked from the bottom up, rather than uniform, the tiny extent of the change a typical object will experience, and still have no explanation for why it squeezes objects down (and why it appeals to density, rather than area).
Can you explain any of it?

Why doesn't it squeeze objects up into the lower density atmosphere where it would be easier to displace its volume as less mass needs to be displaced?

It does squeeze up. It's why hot air balloons can rise up or helium.hydrogen balloons, etc can.
I've clearly explained it all but you either do not want to grasp it or can't grasp it. Or you can grasp it but are hell bent on keeping bullshit alive.

Either way you've been told. Don't come back with the same tripe or it will be overlooked.

It does squeeze up. It's why hot air balloons can rise up or helium.hydrogen balloons, etc can.
I've clearly explained it all but you either do not want to grasp it or can't grasp it. Or you can grasp it but are hell bent on keeping bullshit alive.

Either way you've been told. Don't come back with the same tripe or it will be overlooked.

No. You haven't explained it at all. You have just asserted it. There is a very big difference.

Why does pressure cause things to go down? Why is it acting based upon mass rather than area and rigidity?
Why down and not up?

I can't grasp it because it makes no sense.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 07, 2016, 02:15:24 AM

It does squeeze up. It's why hot air balloons can rise up or helium.hydrogen balloons, etc can.
I've clearly explained it all but you either do not want to grasp it or can't grasp it. Or you can grasp it but are hell bent on keeping bullshit alive.

Either way you've been told. Don't come back with the same tripe or it will be overlooked.

No. You haven't explained it at all. You have just asserted it. There is a very big difference.

Why does pressure cause things to go down? Why is it acting based upon mass rather than area and rigidity?
Why down and not up?

I can't grasp it because it makes no sense.

You won't grasp it because to grasp it will kill off gravity and we can't be having that, can we?
One last chance before you go in the bin.

Atmosphere is stacked from the bottom up and each time it's stacked from the bottom  up, the bottom becomes more gas pressurised.
Anything that uses energy to push into the gaseous atmosphere is always resisted due to the stack it's pushing into.

However, the more energy applied to the push against the atmosphere, the better chance of the atmosphere squeezing UP.

Now if you can't decipher that and come back with the same stuff then you will have to correspond with me in another name, whether already made up or whether you have to create another...or just stay in this name and disappear from my posts.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 07, 2016, 02:15:24 AM

It does squeeze up. It's why hot air balloons can rise up or helium.hydrogen balloons, etc can.
I've clearly explained it all but you either do not want to grasp it or can't grasp it. Or you can grasp it but are hell bent on keeping bullshit alive.

Either way you've been told. Don't come back with the same tripe or it will be overlooked.

No. You haven't explained it at all. You have just asserted it. There is a very big difference.

Why does pressure cause things to go down? Why is it acting based upon mass rather than area and rigidity?
Why down and not up?

I can't grasp it because it makes no sense.

You really haven't learned much about Sceppy and his "Parkinsonian molecules" yet^[1]. 

Before ingesting Sceppy's Theory of Everything, you have empty your mind of everything, all prior knowledge, all logic and all thoughts of "common sense". Only then can you hope to swallow Sceppytism without choking. You have to realise it all comes from Sceppy's immense brain, without any need to refer to reality.

I do hope this little homily has been helpful in your efforts to comprehend the ultimate explanation of everything.

So, after all this preparation you now have to just take in all Sceppy's words of . . . . (I couldn't quite bring myself to say wisdom).


[1] Yes, Sceppy's molecules sort of obey Parkinson's Law, in that they expand to fill all the space available to them. That's why he such a hangup about a vacuum.

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on December 06, 2016, 11:03:16 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 06, 2016, 06:25:47 AM

Tell me what I said. Just bring up the part where I've said something wrong and let's see. If not then just deck out and stop acting like sokarul, unless you are him.

"Try and open a plane door in flight and you'd need to be the incredible hulk. Why?
Because air pressure is keeping that door firmly clamped, as well as the obvious locking mechanism."

Air pressure is pushing the door out of the airplane, and the lock mechanism keeps it there. There are two kinds of airplane door designs, those that open from the outside and those that open from the inside. You'll find that most open from the outside. You're probably referring to plug doors, which is a door design sometimes used, and I grant you that in this case you'd be right.

Like I said, you need to read what I said and it seems you have but are trying to make out I might have meant plug doors when you can clearly see I meant just that.

Here's the full wording you only quoted a little bit of.

What is a submarine full of?
The answer, as you should know, is compressed air. Just like a planes doors act like a tapered sink plug to aid in keeping that pressurised.
Try and open a plane door in flight and you'd need to be the incredible hulk. Why?
Because air pressure is keeping that door firmly clamped, as well as the obvious locking mechanism.
A submarine is an underwater plane with the opposite going on. It's hatches open out because the water pressure is greater than the internal pressure of the sub.

Man, I said you were right, I made a mistake, I thought you were saying something different, what else do you want?

Note: If the following is too long, my question is why does it stack into layers including their orientation?
But I will have a more detailed explanation of why I am asking below.

You won't grasp it because to grasp it will kill off gravity and we can't be having that, can we?
One last chance before you go in the bin.

Atmosphere is stacked from the bottom up and each time it's stacked from the bottom  up, the bottom becomes more gas pressurised.
Anything that uses energy to push into the gaseous atmosphere is always resisted due to the stack it's pushing into.

However, the more energy applied to the push against the atmosphere, the better chance of the atmosphere squeezing UP.

Now if you can't decipher that and come back with the same stuff then you will have to correspond with me in another name, whether already made up or whether you have to create another...or just stay in this name and disappear from my posts.

No. It's pretty much the exact opposite of that.
I can't grasp it because this is meant to be an explanation for why things fall which doesn't appeal to gravity (which produces a force proportional to its mass), but it seems to still be appealing to gravity.
If it was pressure, the mass of the object is just used to determine the acceleration from the force.

You have asserted it is stacked from the bottom up.
But why is it stacked like this? (Note, the following are all basically the same question just expressing different options)
Why isn't it stacked uniformly? (or not stacked and instead just uniform)
Why isn't it stacked from the top, down; the left, right; or right, left (or diagonally)?
Why isn't it stacked from the outside in, or the inside out?

See, it makes sense if you appeal to gravity, Gravity causes the air to fall. But it can't all fit (due to its temperature causing it to bump around a lot), so it will take up a much larger area. Then the air at the bottom has to hold up the air above it, causing it to be denser. So it will stack in "layers" where it gets less dense as you go up.

But you don't want to use gravity, so that makes no sense in your model.

So I don't understand why it is stacking in the first place rather than being uniform.

Going to the sub example (or any vessel constructed by man) the air pressure is pretty much the same, regardless of position in that vessel. The air doesn't stack into layers.
So why does it stack into layers?
Again, it seems like you are trying to use gravity (or some other force akin to gravity such as UA) to explain why we don't need gravity, and that makes no sense to me.