How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?

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rabinoz

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How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« on: November 07, 2016, 07:08:55 PM »
The same question has been asked in various guises in the past, but never really answered.
We could be forgiven for thinking that there is no satisfactory answer and that the Flat Earth explanation for the phases of the moon is wrong.

Before I start, when I say "for everyone", I do mean for all those over the half of the earth that can see the moon.

We are told
Quote from: the Wiki
The Phases of the Moon
When one observes the phases of the moon he sees the moon's day and night, a shadow from the sun illuminating half of the spherical moon at any one time.
The lunar phases vary cyclically according to the changing geometry of the Moon and Sun, which are constantly wobbling up and down and exchange altitudes as they rotate around the North Pole.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
When the moon is above the altitude of the sun the moon is fully lit and a Full Moon occurs.
From: The Phases of the Moon but see also The Moon.
In the diagram below I have drawn how I picture the geometry of the earth, sun and moon at the time of a full moon. I have not drawn the moon above the sun, as the time of a full moon the moon would be around 20,000 km from the sun, so a few tens of kilometres up or down could hardly make any difference! If the moon were much higher it would appear much smaller at the time of a full moon - and it certainly does not.
In this diagram horizontal and vertical distances are to scale, but the sizes of the sun, moon and observers are exaggerated, otherwise they would be almost invisible.

So half the moon is illuminated by the light from the sun. But, it is illuminated on the side facing the sun and not on the side facing the earth. The observer directly underneath is looking straight up and can only see half moon illuminated.  This observer sees only a HALF MOON, not a Full Moon.

The other observer, for which the sun would be just setting and the moon rising (or vice versa), sees most of the part of the moon facing him as illuminated, so sees a nearly full moon.

But, we know for a fact that the phase of moon does not change (substantially) throughout the night or for observers in different locations, and not as appears here
almost a full moon for those where the moon is near the horizon and only a half moon for those directly under the moon.

Please explain where I am mistaken because this is how I interpret what is said in the Wiki.

Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2016, 10:54:58 PM »
The wiki is wrong, obviously.

The only rational way we could see what we actually see is that the Moon is much further. Assuming flatness of the Earth one can even try and calculate the distance to the Moon based on actual (not substantial, but still measurable) change in phases from two distal points (say 5.000-10.000 km). Both measures must be made at the same time (after time zone adjustment).

It is suprising that FE doesn't calculate the distance to the Moon that way. But on the other side, it would contradict (at a much much larger scale than it does right now, unless you believe in ultra light-bending substance somewhere up in the sky) with the angle at which the Moon is visible on the sky.

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rabinoz

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Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2016, 11:37:18 PM »
The wiki is wrong, obviously.

The only rational way we could see what we actually see is that the Moon is much further. Assuming flatness of the Earth one can even try and calculate the distance to the Moon based on actual (not substantial, but still measurable) change in phases from two distal points (say 5.000-10.000 km). Both measures must be made at the same time (after time zone adjustment).

It is suprising that FE doesn't calculate the distance to the Moon that way. But on the other side, it would contradict (at a much much larger scale than it does right now, unless you believe in ultra light-bending substance somewhere up in the sky) with the angle at which the Moon is visible on the sky.
If you want to try some sums, the apparent size of the moon does increase by roughly 1.6% from when it rises to directly overhead.

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wise

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Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2016, 12:09:16 AM »
Because forum NASA trolls are eating Charles Bolden's balls.

It is not surprise they are supporting to Hillary meanwhile. Because they and their leader used to eating balls. (Think about who trained Bill to be eaten to balls)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 12:13:04 AM by İntikam »
1+2+3+...+∞= 1


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rabinoz

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Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2016, 12:20:38 AM »
It is not surprise they are supporting to Hillary meanwhile.
Completely irrelevant!  And you support Donald Duck I suppose.

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disputeone

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Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2016, 04:57:44 AM »
Mods can we do something about Inky insinuating he is going to kill us?

I take it rather personally.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns. 

Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2016, 05:05:35 AM »
Intikam, what is your favorite Game Boy game?

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wise

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Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 05:07:57 AM »
Intikam, what is your favorite Game Boy game?

I think there is something you know well is known as game something. Sorry, i don't know what is it.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1


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disputeone

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Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2016, 06:08:37 AM »
Because forum NASA trolls are eating Charles Bolden's balls.

It is not surprise they are supporting to Hillary meanwhile. Because they and their leader used to eating balls. (Think about who trained Bill to be eaten to balls)

This is debate Inky, keep it in Angry Ranting.

Also, pokemon red.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns. 

Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2016, 06:18:18 AM »
If you want to try some sums, the apparent size of the moon does increase by roughly 1.6% from when it rises to directly overhead.
The very 1st thread I've posted on this forum was about the Sun. It included the apparent change in size by roughly 3%. It resultet in over 33.000 miles dinstance from the flat Earth to the Sun.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64777.msg1726488#msg1726488
One can repeat the argument for the Moon.

Funny how different approach to the same problem leads to different results.

Thankfully, on the globe all ways of measuring the distance (assuming precision is high) lead to ~the same result.

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rabinoz

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Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2016, 03:02:19 PM »
So, can we claim that no Flat Earther has any idea on "How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?"

I thought that at least SCG would bring in "moonshramp", jroa would explain it with "atmoplanic lensing" and if Tom Bishop were here we would have "We have no idea how light behaves at such vast distances."

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Twerp

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Re: How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2016, 04:23:00 PM »
So, can we claim that no Flat Earther has any idea on "How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?"

I thought that at least SCG would bring in "moonshramp", jroa would explain it with "atmoplanic lensing" and if Tom Bishop were here we would have "We have no idea how light behaves at such vast distances."

Personally I think it's a paradoxical abstraction! Only those who can understand abstractions and who enjoy long rambling posts filled with a few facts and a lot of mumbo jumbo could ever understand!
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 05:13:40 PM by Boots »
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