what exactly do the stars do?

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Slemon

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2016, 10:37:10 AM »
Globe earthers have one model of the globe earth. How many models of the flat earth are in use?
Why is that question relevant?


Whew, fun one.
There are a few answers to this one. There's the celestial gears model, which essentially models the gravitational influence of the stars as interlocking gears, so as one rotates the other rotates in the opposite direction. I just can't work out any clear way for the stars to be distributed between 'gears,' to get rotation around two points but that's one explanation.

The other explanation is in DET. a less-accepted model, but still. At a basic level, the idea is that the Earth is a two-sided disk, the edge being at the equator, so that you could easily get stars rotating above two points, one above and one below.
There's a whole host of things to say how the crossing of the equator works (though if you assume it's possible to cross, then the same would hold for light so we would observe stars rotating about two points near there), there's an explanation it's just quite a long aside for a question on a different topic.
And, again, who cares?
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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IonSpen

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2016, 12:01:32 PM »
Narcberry says that FE gives only simple answers and has no inconsistencies, unlike RE.

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Globetrotter

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2016, 02:02:30 PM »
And, again, who cares?

Basically, this time you are right: this forum seems not to explain anything, it exists only to make noise.
"If you insist it is a spinning globe, then why are you here?" - Simple. To counter the misinformation you are spreading to uneducated, and gullible people. It is the duty of every thinking person to oppose those who would spread lies.

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Slemon

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2016, 02:11:49 PM »
And, again, who cares?

Basically, this time you are right: this forum seems not to explain anything, it exists only to make noise.
Are you being serious? You asked a pointless question, and this is your second time refusing to explain why it's remotely important.
But I guess that does make you right, a lot of people on this forum evidently don't explain anything.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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fliggs

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2016, 04:20:04 PM »
And, again, who cares?

Basically, this time you are right: this forum seems not to explain anything, it exists only to make noise.
Are you being serious? You asked a pointless question, and this is your second time refusing to explain why it's remotely important.
But I guess that does make you right, a lot of people on this forum evidently don't explain anything.

Of course they dont explain anything. How do you explain flat earth when a round earth is proven and obvious to even individual observers? They obsfucate at best or just act crazy.

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Slemon

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2016, 05:04:34 PM »
And, again, who cares?

Basically, this time you are right: this forum seems not to explain anything, it exists only to make noise.
Are you being serious? You asked a pointless question, and this is your second time refusing to explain why it's remotely important.
But I guess that does make you right, a lot of people on this forum evidently don't explain anything.

Of course they dont explain anything. How do you explain flat earth when a round earth is proven and obvious to even individual observers? They obsfucate at best or just act crazy.
Tell me you realise how hypocritical you're being. Seriously.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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fliggs

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2016, 09:22:03 PM »
And, again, who cares?

Basically, this time you are right: this forum seems not to explain anything, it exists only to make noise.
Are you being serious? You asked a pointless question, and this is your second time refusing to explain why it's remotely important.
But I guess that does make you right, a lot of people on this forum evidently don't explain anything.

Of course they dont explain anything. How do you explain flat earth when a round earth is proven and obvious to even individual observers? They obsfucate at best or just act crazy.
Tell me you realise how hypocritical you're being. Seriously.

Explain yourself. I dont have to prove round earth any more than I have to prove the existence of the grand canyon. It is there. You can see it.

FEers are largely nutters who dont beleive anything unless they both see and understand it.

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Slemon

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #67 on: October 19, 2016, 02:32:21 AM »
And, again, who cares?

Basically, this time you are right: this forum seems not to explain anything, it exists only to make noise.
Are you being serious? You asked a pointless question, and this is your second time refusing to explain why it's remotely important.
But I guess that does make you right, a lot of people on this forum evidently don't explain anything.

Of course they dont explain anything. How do you explain flat earth when a round earth is proven and obvious to even individual observers? They obsfucate at best or just act crazy.
Tell me you realise how hypocritical you're being. Seriously.

Explain yourself. I dont have to prove round earth any more than I have to prove the existence of the grand canyon. It is there. You can see it.

FEers are largely nutters who dont beleive anything unless they both see and understand it.
Ok then, brief recap for you.
I asked a question to a REer. I got a non-answer, and then an irrelevant post about how FEers don't answer questions. Then you popped up and, with zero relevance, decided to also complain about how FEers don't answer questions and just obfuscate while simultaneously, well, obfuscating given that your post has no real relationship to anything that's going on here, and blaming FEers for evading questions while happily helping a REer who's doing exactly that. Plus, of course, blatantly ignoring that the 'people who don't answer questions' in my post referred to a REer.

And regardless, yes, you do have to prove RET, just like you just proved the Grand Canyon. if you can see it (?!), great, there's your proof. Just point out how we can see it, and be prepared for FEers to point out how those observations are also explained under their model. If, otherwise, the sum total of your contribution to the discourse on this forum is otherwise going to be "The Earth's round, and I'm not going to say any more, it's obvious you nutters," then that's just idiotic.
Anyway, that's a topic for another thread.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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disputeone

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2016, 02:35:15 AM »
Fliggs is a troll compensating for some unresolved issues on a flat earth forum.

I wouldn't worry about him, I am glad you are back Jane, I was disgusted by how you were treated by a few of the posters here for your thought experiment.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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Denspressure

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #69 on: October 19, 2016, 03:23:15 AM »
Globe earthers have one model of the globe earth. How many models of the flat earth are in use?
Why is that question relevant?

It is. There can only be one model.

A FE model must be made that complies perfectly with all observations done in history and today.

After that, you of course have to provide proof of the fake space industry. The massive meteor craters around Earth.

Oh, and why a rocket has yet to fly into a 3000 miles up sun and moon, and the dome.

Really, why don't they just fund their own rocket and fire it against the sun, moon or against the dome? also, you'll be be able to see the sun increase in size massively if you get closer or higher up At one point you will be above it, able to look straight down into the sun with the earth below. And of course record a view of the earth MUCH different than NASA, ESA, SpaceX recordings and so on.

No such footage exist.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 03:24:56 AM by Denspressure »
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Slemon

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #70 on: October 19, 2016, 04:44:49 AM »
Globe earthers have one model of the globe earth. How many models of the flat earth are in use?
Why is that question relevant?

It is. There can only be one model.
Sure, but it doesn't spring fully formed into existence. Every model in existence came from several predecessors, which then had their strengths and weaknesses analysed, experiments performed to further compare... All of which takes long, arduous discussion between the models, without constant interruption, and without constant fear of mocking and insults, as well as often rather tricky, technical and expensive experiments, none of which is possible on this forum.
So, while only one model can be accurate, it's not relevant that there exists more than one.

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A FE model must be made that complies perfectly with all observations done in history and today.

After that, you of course have to provide proof of the fake space industry. The massive meteor craters around Earth.

Oh, and why a rocket has yet to fly into a 3000 miles up sun and moon, and the dome.

Really, why don't they just fund their own rocket and fire it against the sun, moon or against the dome? also, you'll be be able to see the sun increase in size massively if you get closer or higher up At one point you will be above it, able to look straight down into the sun with the earth below. And of course record a view of the earth MUCH different than NASA, ESA, SpaceX recordings and so on.

No such footage exist.
If a FE model doesn't explain all observations, that fact can't be assumed. It has to be demonstrated.
Space-wise, that's another thing that depends on the model. Taking DET, under that space travel's actually impossible because there are 'whirlpools,' essentially threshold-markers, as you go up, and crossing them would destroy any rocket that tried. In that case, you wouldn't be able to go up and run into any stars or get an odd view of the Earth.
In general though, not all models have domes, and meteors have a multitude of explanations. (Taking DET again, the aforementioned whirlpools, physical matter that sometimes forms stars could be torn apart and made to fall).
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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IonSpen

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2016, 05:43:57 AM »
Taking DET, under that space travel's actually impossible because there are 'whirlpools,' essentially threshold-markers, as you go up, and crossing them would destroy any rocket that tried.

What evidence of these whirlpools exist?

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Slemon

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2016, 06:16:36 AM »
What evidence of these whirlpools exist?
That we observe the consequences we'd expect from them (they're used to explain the Coriolis force, variations in gravity, tides, star movements...)
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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IonSpen

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2016, 08:06:14 AM »
What causes the whirlpools? And what determines which way they spin?
I have read up on DET, but started becoming lost/uninterested once crossing back and forth on the equator was described.

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Globetrotter

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #74 on: October 19, 2016, 12:13:07 PM »
What is DET?
"If you insist it is a spinning globe, then why are you here?" - Simple. To counter the misinformation you are spreading to uneducated, and gullible people. It is the duty of every thinking person to oppose those who would spread lies.

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IonSpen

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2016, 02:29:20 PM »
What is DET?
Dual
Earth
Theory
One man's fantasy idea consisting of a northern topside and southern bottomside, like 2 disks put together, the outer edge being the equator. Kind of like if you had a northern hemisphere and a southern hemisphere, but flattened out. See Jane or JRoweSkeptic (the theorist).

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Slemon

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2016, 03:08:09 PM »
What causes the whirlpools? And what determines which way they spin?
I have read up on DET, but started becoming lost/uninterested once crossing back and forth on the equator was described.
The whirlpools form when flows from multiple directions converge at a single point. Reality's never perfect enough for them to cancel each other out perfectly, so rotational motion would follow. As for what determines the direction, that's not really important; they have to spin one direction.
The equator's actually simpler than it seems. It's the kind of thing that seems odd, but from a perspective internal to the model it's not really any more bizarre than rocks spinning around other rocks, which in turn spin around a ball of gas. It's always fairer to judge a model based on its merit, not how far it departs from what you're used to. Sure, you can find issues with the model, but the main objection to the equator tends to be that it's different, and little else.

What is DET?
IonSpen gave a fair, if biased, overview. It's the model people voted for me to defend, so here we are.
The developer posts about it here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66368.0
Though I don't expect you to read all that, it gets pretty involved.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2016, 03:33:52 PM »
^^they make cricket noises. See my thread for details.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=68238.new;topicseen#new
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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Globetrotter

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2016, 08:19:26 PM »
What is DET?
IonSpen gave a fair, if biased, overview. It's the model people voted for me to defend, so here we are.
The developer posts about it here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66368.0
Though I don't expect you to read all that, it gets pretty involved.

I've just read the DET story. Then, I can't understand, why you people accept DET model, and do not accept RE madel? RE is obviously simpler.
"If you insist it is a spinning globe, then why are you here?" - Simple. To counter the misinformation you are spreading to uneducated, and gullible people. It is the duty of every thinking person to oppose those who would spread lies.

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rabinoz

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2016, 08:31:40 PM »
What is DET?
IonSpen gave a fair, if biased, overview. It's the model people voted for me to defend, so here we are.
The developer posts about it here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66368.0
Though I don't expect you to read all that, it gets pretty involved.

I've just read the DET story. Then, I can't understand, why you people accept DET model, and do not accept RE madel? RE is obviously simpler.
Yes, just pump up the "Dual Hemiplanes" until they form a nice Globe and "Bob's your uncle"[1], as they say in the classics.

[1] Actually he's my brother-in-law, "but don't you worry about that!"

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fliggs

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2016, 10:09:59 PM »
And, again, who cares?

Basically, this time you are right: this forum seems not to explain anything, it exists only to make noise.
Are you being serious? You asked a pointless question, and this is your second time refusing to explain why it's remotely important.
But I guess that does make you right, a lot of people on this forum evidently don't explain anything.

Of course they dont explain anything. How do you explain flat earth when a round earth is proven and obvious to even individual observers? They obsfucate at best or just act crazy.
Tell me you realise how hypocritical you're being. Seriously.

Explain yourself. I dont have to prove round earth any more than I have to prove the existence of the grand canyon. It is there. You can see it.

FEers are largely nutters who dont beleive anything unless they both see and understand it.
Ok then, brief recap for you.
I asked a question to a REer. I got a non-answer, and then an irrelevant post about how FEers don't answer questions. Then you popped up and, with zero relevance, decided to also complain about how FEers don't answer questions and just obfuscate while simultaneously, well, obfuscating given that your post has no real relationship to anything that's going on here, and blaming FEers for evading questions while happily helping a REer who's doing exactly that. Plus, of course, blatantly ignoring that the 'people who don't answer questions' in my post referred to a REer.

And regardless, yes, you do have to prove RET, just like you just proved the Grand Canyon. if you can see it (?!), great, there's your proof. Just point out how we can see it, and be prepared for FEers to point out how those observations are also explained under their model. If, otherwise, the sum total of your contribution to the discourse on this forum is otherwise going to be "The Earth's round, and I'm not going to say any more, it's obvious you nutters," then that's just idiotic.
Anyway, that's a topic for another thread.

No offence and all that, but you really are quite the idiot. No, I don't have to prove round earth as it has already been proved centuries ago and every time a satellite orbits or a GPS smartphone operates there is more proof.

Your problem - and it is a doozy - is that you want to engage these morons on the basis that their theory has credibility when it has precisely none. NONE. Get it? NONE. Flat earth is the most (literally) insane conspiracy theoiry on the planet. There are about a million proofs of round earth and zero for flat earth.

And my post is relevant as was the other poster.

Isnt it time you went back to scepti to 'discuss' his truly idiotic vision/lunacy of how the universe hangs together? That way you can encourage him in his stupidity. you ENABLE people with this idiocy despite there being absolute proof for round earth.

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disputeone

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2016, 11:54:14 PM »
massive personal issues as yet unresolved, making their way into everything I say and do, poisoning my mind and destroying my will.

fliggs stop calling people childish names. Honestly grow up man you can't control the whole world, no need to freak out that everyone is different.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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fliggs

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #82 on: October 20, 2016, 02:03:31 AM »
massive personal issues as yet unresolved, making their way into everything I say and do, poisoning my mind and destroying my will.

fliggs stop calling people childish names. Honestly grow up man you can't control the whole world, no need to freak out that everyone is different.

Hey dimwit. If you are going to quote me the least you do is actually quote ME instead of whoever wrote the above.

We expect FEers to lie. We expect people like you to strive to be honest.

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Slemon

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2016, 04:58:53 AM »
I've just read the DET story. Then, I can't understand, why you people accept DET model, and do not accept RE madel? RE is obviously simpler.
Define simpler. After all, the lay definition of simple doesn't really mean much; most science gets pretty complicated once you get past the basics, and all that makes it seem easier is the fact you already accept it.
If you mean the Occam's Razor type of simple, then DET claims to be simpler as it runs on fewer assumptions: though a lot's new, all of the new elements follow from set rules, so wouldn't count as extra assumptions.

Yes, just pump up the "Dual Hemiplanes" until they form a nice Globe and "Bob's your uncle"[1], as they say in the classics.

[1] Actually he's my brother-in-law, "but don't you worry about that!"
Bit trickier than that sadly. Pump up the dual hemiplanes, rotate one 180 degrees, create the Sun, moon and planets, invent gravity, alter space...

No offence and all that, but you really are quite the idiot. No, I don't have to prove round earth as it has already been proved centuries ago and every time a satellite orbits or a GPS smartphone operates there is more proof.
You'd make a great maths teacher. "What's the proof of Pythagoras' theorem?" "No I don't have to prove it, it's been proven centuries before and every time someone calculates a distance or a designs a building there is more proof."
Where do you think you are? This is a forum, you need to post more than "We're right, ha ha haa," you need to post why.

Quote
Your problem - and it is a doozy - is that you want to engage these morons on the basis that their theory has credibility when it has precisely none. NONE. Get it? NONE. Flat earth is the most (literally) insane conspiracy theoiry on the planet. There are about a million proofs of round earth and zero for flat earth.
And my post is relevant as was the other poster.
Isnt it time you went back to scepti to 'discuss' his truly idiotic vision/lunacy of how the universe hangs together? That way you can encourage him in his stupidity. you ENABLE people with this idiocy despite there being absolute proof for round earth.
What are you even talking about? I've never said FET is right, I just recount the models as stated. If you want to actually make an intelligent argument, you need to know what you're talking about. "You're wrong because I'm right," is a colossal waste of time. Sure, great if you can prove you're right, but that's not how science works. To prove RET over FET, you need to prove that FET, say, fails to explain certain things, and you can only do that if you know what they're talking about, which in turn you can only do if you take the time to read and learn the models.
So that's what I do; I learn them, recount them to people that ask, and let them spot the flaws themselves. I make no claims about accuracy, and I hardly enable: listening isn't enabling. If anything, it's the opposite: I give them a chance to actually explain the details of their model without needing to get defensive, which means they put more thought and effort into the posts. I've had experience with this; mathematically, the easiest way to error-check a proof is to imagine you're explaining it to someone in a friendly setting, discuss... and you find the weak spots. If FEers are going to change their minds, it's by civil discussion, not by being constantly insulted. And if they're not going to change their minds, well, this is no more enabling that what anyone does.
And please, don't act like you care about them anyway, if you did your default wouldn't be insults.

Seriously, instead of constructing an elaborate view where what you want is true, work with what people are actually saying and doing, and stop being such a hypocrite. Rambling about FEers not answering questions when it's not under discussion and an REer's doing the evasion, acting like you care about the people you constantly insult... What is that meant to achieve?
You're rambling about things no one is talking about.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Globetrotter

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2016, 11:47:20 AM »
Jane, I see you as an expert on DET. The DET says that the Equator is the edge of the DE. Since I couldn't find this in the DET, explain, how do you imagine that edge visually: I imagine this as a ridge, similar to a mountain ridge, so the horizon must be there quite awkward when an observer sits on top of the ridge.
Also, the DET does not say a word about gravity. Why?

At the globe earth theory, it's simpler to explain phenomena considered with it: gravity, sunrise/sunset, moon phases, etc.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 03:54:04 PM by Globetrotter »
"If you insist it is a spinning globe, then why are you here?" - Simple. To counter the misinformation you are spreading to uneducated, and gullible people. It is the duty of every thinking person to oppose those who would spread lies.

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IonSpen

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2016, 02:00:52 PM »
Aether X 2

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Globetrotter

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2016, 04:04:13 PM »
Aether X 2

Oh. yes, the aether! So, why the aether is better over mass?
"If you insist it is a spinning globe, then why are you here?" - Simple. To counter the misinformation you are spreading to uneducated, and gullible people. It is the duty of every thinking person to oppose those who would spread lies.

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IonSpen

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2016, 05:00:28 PM »
I can't answer that. I was just stating what the answer was gonna be, in short.
If I was wrong, I'll retract my answer.

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disputeone

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #88 on: October 22, 2016, 05:03:38 PM »
Globetrotter you make it too easy, I recommend getting a better feel for this site.

I think Aether sounds cooler personally.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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Slemon

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Re: what exactly do the stars do?
« Reply #89 on: October 22, 2016, 05:19:22 PM »
Jane, I see you as an expert on DET.
Not an expert, I just read it.

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The DET says that the Equator is the edge of the DE. Since I couldn't find this in the DET, explain, how do you imagine that edge visually: I imagine this as a ridge, similar to a mountain ridge, so the horizon must be there quite awkward when an observer sits on top of the ridge.
You wouldn't be able to see anything. The key to think about the equator under DET is that space is stretched thin there, so essentially there is no distance. Technically the answer to this is a lack of aether; how can you see something that occupies no space? It'd just continue smoothly on. You can stand with a leg on either side, but how could you notice it? You'd get zero distance dividing one half of your body from the other, the same as ever.

Quote
Also, the DET does not say a word about gravity. Why?
What? It does, pretty obviously, in JRowe's main overview: http://dualearththeory.proboards.com/thread/3/dual-earth-theory-overview
And in the thread on this site: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66368.0
What outline have you been reading? Stick to the more recent stuff. 

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At the globe earth theory, it's simpler to explain phenomena considered with it: gravity, sunrise/sunset, moon phases, etc.
Define simpler. Simplicity in a lay sense isn't really important in a scientific context, a model can be as complicated as you want so long as it has evidence. Simplicity in the Occam's razor sense, that of reducing assumptions, is said to prefer DET because DET relies on less assumptions.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!