Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.

  • 298 Replies
  • 36316 Views
?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2016, 11:53:00 PM »
Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!
So you claim  that you have equation to prove that the Earth is flat? Let us all see it then. Why do you hide it?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 12:19:47 AM by zork »
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

*

onebigmonkey

  • 1623
  • You. Yes you. Stand still laddie.
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2016, 12:08:22 AM »
Apollo 17's 'Blue Marble' isn't the best example because of the angle at which the image was taken - one pole is completely invisible while the equator is running almost along the top of the Earth as shown.

Far better to use photos taken by things like the ATS satellites in geostationary orbit. However as already pointed out, the difference is so small it is unlikely to be noticeable, like this one:



The whole 'oblate spheroid' thing is just a bit of nerdy "did you know" thing you can throw into a conversation over a beer to impress your friends.
Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html

Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2016, 12:25:09 AM »
"Your obsession with the precise shape of the world is very highly suspicious."

"But who really cares what exact precise shape the world is??"

"It is just more or less academic for most people"

"The simple maths..."

"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

How can you possibly be interested in the simple maths indeed...
Actually, thats exactly what I am asking about in this thread.
There seems some errors in the current way we calculate the shape of Earth.
So I addressed them in this topic already.

Obviously, neither do you have the capability to answer my questions, or the intellect to read them.
Finding information about how humanity "discovered" the shape of Earth makes me giggle now.
Funny how absolutely none of it gives real numbers and always assume Earth to be a sphere.

>>"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

Once again you are shown to be cheating to avoid reality.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 01:13:26 AM by Aliveandkicking »

*

N30

  • 592
  • I can only show you the door.
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2016, 01:11:40 AM »
ERATOSTHENES

"He properly "assumed" that the Sun's rays are virtually parallel (since the Sun is so far away)

"He calculated the circumference of the Earth to be 250,000 stadia. Exactly how long a stadia is is unknown, so his accuracy is uncertain"

"Conveniently, 7.2 degrees is 1/50th of a full circle ( 50 x 7.2° = 360° ).... Eratosthenes understood!"

"Here's where things get a bit tricky. Eratosthenes had the distance between the two cities measured. His records show that the distance was found to be 5,000 stadia.Unfortunately, there was not a universal standard length for the stadion; so we don't know exactly which version of the stadion Eratosthenes used, and therefore are not exactly sure how accurate his solution was. He may have been correct to within less than 1%, a remarkable accomplishment!

"what assumptions would they be exactly?


"He invented the ... sphere"


quoted text cited below
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/earth/Mass.shtml
http://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html

*

onebigmonkey

  • 1623
  • You. Yes you. Stand still laddie.
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2016, 01:17:24 AM »
"He invented the ... sphere"


quoted text cited below

http://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html

Not what the quote meant:

Quote
He invented the armillary sphere, a mechanical device used by early astronomers to demonstrate and predict the apparent motions of the stars in the sky. He also compiled a star catalog that included 675 stars. His measurement of the circumference of Earth was highly respected in his day, and set the standard for many years thereafter.
Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html

Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2016, 01:17:42 AM »
ERATOSTHENES

"He properly "assumed" that the Sun's rays are virtually parallel (since the Sun is so far away)

"He calculated the circumference of the Earth to be 250,000 stadia. Exactly how long a stadia is is unknown, so his accuracy is uncertain"

"Conveniently, 7.2 degrees is 1/50th of a full circle ( 50 x 7.2° = 360° ).... Eratosthenes understood!"

"Here's where things get a bit tricky. Eratosthenes had the distance between the two cities measured. His records show that the distance was found to be 5,000 stadia.Unfortunately, there was not a universal standard length for the stadion; so we don't know exactly which version of the stadion Eratosthenes used, and therefore are not exactly sure how accurate his solution was. He may have been correct to within less than 1%, a remarkable accomplishment!

"what assumptions would they be exactly?


Mate, if you today go out yourself and measure the angle of the horizon to the stars from the far north to the equator you will find it is not possible to put those observations onto a piece of paper if the surface you took the measurements from was flat.

The only way a flattie can ram it into their reality is by assuming the real angles to the stars were not actually measured and so the whole exercise was a waste of time.

Meanwhile multiple observers can measure the same star at the same time and still get the same answers, but for flatties it does not matter.  Faith in their assumption of 'bendylight' is sufficent.


« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 01:30:59 AM by Aliveandkicking »

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2016, 01:26:21 AM »
I am not interested in looking at doctored photos from NASA.

All that matters to me is real math, and real science.
Mathematic equations from 240 BC that are now invalid and fruitless expeditions from 1735 do not sway me.

Not only has my question been unanswered, but you seem to have disregarded my last post.
Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!

You wonder that no can one show you "an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid".

Well "proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid" is not a mathematical problem, but a measurement problem.

You can't prove that some object is a cube with some equation, what you have to do is measure the object and demonstrate that all sides are equal and all faces are squares.

Likewise with the earth Newton did postulate that the earth should have a larger equatorial radius than polar rsdius, and many mathematicians have calculated what that difference should be.

But the real figures have be determined by measurement.

Those so-called "fruitless expeditions from 1735" that did not "sway you" were just part of many measurements of the length of one degree of latitude at various latitudes.

So yes, you can calculate the theoretical "figure of the earth", but it needs to be measured to determine the actual value.

If you really are interested you read
Wikipedia, History of geodesy or
GG612 Lecture 3: EARTH’S FIGURE, GRAVITY, AND GEOID, mind you there some sums!

Of course, if you read my earlier posts you will have noted that the earth is not even a perfect ellipsoid (oblate spheroid).
It is only very accurate measurements that can determine this sort thing.

Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us you simple mathematical proof that the earth is flat.


*

Denspressure

  • 1947
  • What do you, value?
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2016, 01:34:42 AM »
Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us you simple mathematical proof that the earth is flat.

YES!

FLAT  EARTH COMMUNITY, FUND SEVERAL ROCKETS! LAUNCH THEM FROM DIFFERENT LOCATIONS.

RECORD THE SUN! THE MOON! THE DOME! THE FLAT EARTH!

SHOW US GOD'S INFINITE WORK!

PUT SOMETHING AGAINST THE DOME, RUN EXPERIMENTS, MEASURE ITS COMPOSITION! SHOW US THE TRUE SUN, RUN EXPERIMENTS ON IT, SHOOT PROBES INSIDE IT. LAND ON THE MOON!

):

Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2016, 01:38:02 AM »
YES!

FLAT  EARTH COMMUNITY, FUND SEVERAL ROCKETS!

It would be cheaper to buy one of these:


*

N30

  • 592
  • I can only show you the door.
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2016, 01:51:02 AM »

Well "proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid" is not a mathematical problem, but a measurement problem.

You can't prove that some object is a cube with some equation, what you have to do is measure the object and demonstrate that all sides are equal and all faces are squares.

Likewise with the earth Newton did postulate that the earth should have a larger equatorial radius than polar radius, and many mathematicians have calculated what that difference should be.

But the real figures have *yet to* be determined by measurement. (*wow*...)

Those so-called "fruitless expeditions from 1735" that did not "sway you" were just part of many measurements of the length of one degree of latitude at various latitudes.

So yes, you can calculate the theoretical "figure of the earth", but it needs to be measured to determine the actual value.

Of course, if you read my earlier posts you will have noted that the Earth is not even a perfect ellipsoid (oblate spheroid).



Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us *your* simple mathematical proof




Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2016, 02:10:26 AM »
But the real figures have *yet to* be determined by measurement. (*wow*...)

I will, for the time being, assume there is some intelligent purpose to your game.

What real figures and real measurements do you want to see?

You began this thread with the following, my answers to you in red:

Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
When measured, the earth is shown to be very slightly differently shaped to a true sphere.   The difference is a few tens of kilometers when the earth is 40,000 km in circumference.  It looks round but it has been measured to be very slightly not round
As far as I have seen no photo from "space" shows this.
A photo will shows the earths shape which looks round, but has been found by measurement to be very slightly differently shaped to a true sphere
Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.
Correct
Ergo, all equations assuming Earth is a sphere must be re evaluated.
All equations that need to consider the exact shape of the Earth are re-evaluated when better measurements become available. For example, the GPS system must know the shape of the World or the results are wrong by the amount of error that exists.
Unless Scientific American is lying, Earth is not even a perfect oblate spheroid.
by measurement, Earth has been found to be slightly differently shaped to a perfect oblate spheroid.
Please explain why large errors and approximations are accepted as true for calculating the shape of our planet.

By measurement, Earth has been found to be slightly differently shaped to a perfect oblate spheroid


What part of this is not understood by you, or needs to be clarified to you, so you can understand what is being said to you?


« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 03:46:52 AM by Aliveandkicking »

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2016, 03:06:28 AM »
But the real figures have *yet to* be determined by measurement. (*wow*...)

I will, for the time being, assume there is some intelligent purpose to your game.

What real figures and real measurements do you want to see?
He wants to see measurements and math for flat earth but as no one can provide them then he nitpicks on measurements and math that can be provided. You can't pick on something that doesn't exist.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2016, 03:44:12 AM »
The thickness of both an infinite plane (see our blog) and a finite disk (see: A.C. Tort) has been done. As has the diameter in both cases.
I read your blog but can you give a link to this A.C. Tort?  And still, from where you get all your values which you use - A, p, m? And yes, you may be more versed in math than I am but I've done my share of integrals, surface integrals and volume integrals in high school and I don't get what is the difference between usual surface integral (double integral) and your closed surface integral? Also integrals are done usually on finite surface. Sure, you divide this finite surface to infinitesimal parts but the thing you do integrals over is finite. How do you do your integrals over infinite area? As I get it you just say that if I divide area into infinitesimal parts then I can do integrals and get desired result and in the same time ignoring that the area you are dividing is not finite but is infinite.
John Davis, maybe you can clarify these things for me?
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

*

N30

  • 592
  • I can only show you the door.
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2016, 11:05:59 AM »
He wants to see measurements and math for flat *Globe* Earth but as no one can provide them then he nitpicks on measurements and math that can be provided. You can't pick on something that doesn't exist.

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #74 on: September 09, 2016, 11:25:13 AM »
He wants to see measurements and math for flat *Globe* Earth but as no one can provide them then he nitpicks on measurements and math that can be provided. You can't pick on something that doesn't exist.
So, as you claim that you can provide something for flat earth then please, go ahead. Or all you can do is quote others and fiddle with quotes as you can't actually say anything for yourself.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #75 on: September 09, 2016, 11:36:13 AM »
Guys, n30 is batshit crazy. Just ignore him.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #76 on: September 09, 2016, 12:31:38 PM »
Guys, n30 is batshit crazy. Just ignore him.

If we are going to ignore crazy people there is not much point coming to the flat earth society

Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #77 on: September 09, 2016, 12:37:43 PM »
That would be like going to the zoo and ignoring the animals.

*

N30

  • 592
  • I can only show you the door.
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #78 on: September 09, 2016, 12:39:37 PM »
The last three posts are a classic case of argumentum ad hominem, therefore your logic is invalid.

Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #79 on: September 09, 2016, 12:49:47 PM »
N30 is an expert on logical fallacies and always makes sure to avoid them when making his arguments.

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #80 on: September 09, 2016, 01:37:30 PM »
N30 is an expert on logical fallacies and always makes sure to avoid them when making his arguments.

Logical fallacy implies that there was logic to begin with.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #81 on: September 09, 2016, 07:33:37 PM »

Well "proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid" is not a mathematical problem, but a measurement problem.

You can't prove that some object is a cube with some equation, what you have to do is measure the object and demonstrate that all sides are equal and all faces are squares.

Likewise with the earth Newton did postulate that the earth should have a larger equatorial radius than polar radius, and many mathematicians have calculated what that difference should be.

But the real figures have *yet to* be determined by measurement. (*wow*...)

Those so-called "fruitless expeditions from 1735" that did not "sway you" were just part of many measurements of the length of one degree of latitude at various latitudes.

So yes, you can calculate the theoretical "figure of the earth", but it needs to be measured to determine the actual value.

Of course, if you read my earlier posts you will have noted that the Earth is not even a perfect ellipsoid (oblate spheroid).

Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us *your* simple mathematical proof


I repeat:
Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us *your* simple mathematical proof

Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #82 on: September 09, 2016, 08:40:38 PM »
The last three posts are a classic case of argumentum ad hominem, therefore your logic is invalid.

The size and shape of the Earth has been determined by measurement and evidently either:

1.  The Earths measured shape creates a problem for you or

2. You are a troll or

3. There is some other reason why you behaving in such a strange manner where you seem to believe you can blatantly cheat without consequence.


Some of your cheating:

1. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
"Your obsession with the precise shape of the world is very highly suspicious."

"But who really cares what exact precise shape the world is??"

"It is just more or less academic for most people"

"The simple maths..."

"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

How can you possibly be interested in the simple maths indeed...
Actually, thats exactly what I am asking about in this thread.
There seems some errors in the current way we calculate the shape of Earth.
So I addressed them in this topic already.

Obviously, neither do you have the capability to answer my questions, or the intellect to read them.
Finding information about how humanity "discovered" the shape of Earth makes me giggle now.
Funny how absolutely none of it gives real numbers and always assume Earth to be a sphere.

>>"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

Once again you are shown to be cheating to avoid reality.

Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!

Your obsession with the precise shape of the world is very highly suspicious.   

The basic shape was known thousands of years ago by observation of the stars while travelling.  The simple maths involved totally does not work for a flat surface.

All that matters to me is real math, and real science.

How can you possibly be interested in maths and science and not realise that already????


2.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------








These photos prove that the line did NOT move over a period of three minutes


"The intelligence agencies use the conspiracy media to disseminate false information..."

The video shows the line has moved.

And you pretend it has not moved

That is just weird.

3--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any more lies you make that involve me will be added to the list.   
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 09:13:39 PM by Aliveandkicking »

*

Globetrotter

  • 181
  • Open-minded: receptive to arguments or ideas
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #83 on: September 10, 2016, 09:40:49 AM »
3--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any more lies you make that involve me will be added to the list.

@Aliveandkicking, I admire you to have nerve to talk to childish people. You must be good training animals.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 09:45:14 AM by Globetrotter »
"If you insist it is a spinning globe, then why are you here?" - Simple. To counter the misinformation you are spreading to uneducated, and gullible people. It is the duty of every thinking person to oppose those who would spread lies.

*

N30

  • 592
  • I can only show you the door.
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #84 on: September 10, 2016, 11:31:00 AM »
Below are the pictures posted of the video.
Obviously one should watch the video before further speculation.
Aliveandkicking claims to see the line rotating. I claimed it stayed vertical, which proves it to be man made!



Original Comparison (with added reference lines)




Omega subsequently posted a photoshopped version, but all he did was prove that it stayed vertical!

"Fixed that for you:"


Only by now, Alivendkicking realized the mistake being made, and he tried to correct his NASA buddy.


"Cool can you do it for the same angle of the lamp please."  The line rotates during the video".

"Rotated and enhanced the contrast."


Look at how these incidents of fraud correlate with the first images of the "curves" of Earth!



Wake up and smell the NASA
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 12:09:53 PM by N30 »

Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #85 on: September 10, 2016, 11:43:16 AM »
Below are the pictures posted of the video.
Obviously one should watch the video before further speculation.
Aliveandkicking claims to see the line rotating. I claimed it stayed vertical, which proves it to be man made!


Original Comparison (with added reference lines)


1. You are blind or

2. You are stupid or

3. You are a troll




*

N30

  • 592
  • I can only show you the door.
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #86 on: September 10, 2016, 12:41:53 PM »
"...please be polite!"
"It is evident you are not thinking about the topic..."

Also, you claim that the Moon is egg shaped... Thats just weird.

The moon is egg shaped.  The larger end of the egg shape is facing the earth

Should not the forces of "gravity" create the same shape for both Earth and Moon?
If not, why?
Finding conflicting ideas in the current model supports that an alternative theory be proposed.

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #87 on: September 10, 2016, 01:17:36 PM »
Also, you claim that the Moon is egg shaped ... Thats just weird.
Should not the forces of "gravity" create the same shape for both Earth and Moon
If not, why?
Finding conflicting ideas in the
current model supports that an alternative theory be proposed.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #88 on: September 10, 2016, 01:27:21 PM »
"...please be polite!"
"It is evident you are not thinking about the topic..."

Also, you claim that the Moon is egg shaped... Thats just weird.

The moon is egg shaped.  The larger end of the egg shape is facing the earth

Should not the forces of "gravity" create the same shape for both Earth and Moon?
If not, why?
Finding conflicting ideas in the current model supports that an alternative theory be proposed.

Neither the Earth or the Moon are liquids so we not expect their shape to be only created by gravity and rotation.

*

N30

  • 592
  • I can only show you the door.
Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
« Reply #89 on: September 10, 2016, 02:11:55 PM »
Supposedly, Earth bulges south the equator more than above, yet, the moon bulges sideways?
All things considered...
What causes that?