Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @142)

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John Davis

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Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @142)
« on: September 03, 2016, 10:09:00 PM »
The fact is I'm embarrassed with the riches of evidence that the Earth is not a Planet. This list is intended as an ongoing account of reasons and evidences I've read, heard, or otherwise have been related to me for belief in the Flat Earth.

THE MYTHICAL CURVE
  • Find the curve! You can't. Every experience we have says it's flat - from the beach to Mount Everest to a plane.
  • Lack of Curvature in Planes
  • Curvature has not been seen at heights of 38,000 ft+
  • The only evidence showing curvature is from Big Science.
  • Weather balloons routinely show a  flat earth unless distorted by the lens - often we'll see this happen as it appears concave/convex/ and flat alternating.  There is no law of optics that would allow a body to appear flat if it was indeed round.
  • You can see Rotspitze, Collalto, GroBglockner, Rote Spitze, Sass De Putia and Sass Rigais from the same spot with no curvature. Also Rauchkofel.
  • Shots of Blue Origin from space and from earth show that curvature is seen at ground level the same as from low earth orbit. This proves curvature seen from space is determined by how it was filmed.
  • We are too small to see curvature yet boats can be seen to dip below a hill of water?!
WATER IS LEVEL
  • Water has been determined experimentally to be level. If the earth was round, and spun, water would not be level.
  • The Bedford Level Experiment (Rowbotham, Shenton, Blount, et al)
  • No distortion in reflections in ocean curvature.
  • Lake Quinsigamond is level. "The writer, with a first-class mechanic and a well-known up-to-date photographer, made a trip to Lake Quinsigamond on the 2nd day of June, 1908, and tried the same experiment in practically the same way, and took a photograph of the scene, which proved beyond any doubt in the minds of those present, that the water in that lake was level on the surface, and so acknowledged by the photographer who still believes the Earth is a Globe."  Charles William Morse (author of Unpopular Truth...)
ARCHITECTURE AND RAILROADS
  • No consideration is made in architecture of large constructions for curvature of earth.
  • No consideration is made in the construction of the Suez Canal - it forms a straight and level surface of water (Carpenter)
  • Danyang-Kunshan Grand Bridge, China. 102.4 Mile long bridge does not compensate properly for the curvature of the earth
  • The walls of tall buildings can be found to be parallel.
  • Lake Pontchartrain Causeway, Metairie, LA - 23.87 miles long with 380 Feet of missing curvature.
  • The locks at Gatun lake would be impossible on a globe.
  • Curvature not allowed for in construction of railways. The London and North Western Railway between London and Liverpool  forms a line of 180 miles. The highest point, midway, as at Birmingham station, which is 240 feet above the leve of the sea at london and Liverpool. On a globe the chord of the arc between London and Liverpool would be at Birmingham 5,400  feet above sealevel at london and Liverpool added to which the actual height of the station between of 240 feet and we have 5,640 ft. Not one inch was allowed for. (Terra Firma 126)
  • . The Great Canal of China, 700 miles in length, was made without regard to any allowance for curvature as the Chinese rightfully believed the Earth to be flat and stationary.  (Carpenter)
  • Likewise for the North Sea Canal.(TF 134)
  • Likewise for the Manchester Ship Canal. (TF 134)
VIEWING IMPOSSIBLE DISTANCES
  • We can see further than expected many places on earth. I get several messages a month from folks in distant areas showing me photographs of locations far beyond the curvature. I myself grew up on Lake Ontario and could see the CN tower far further away than I should have as well as the Toronto Skyline.
  • Lighthouses can be seen further than one would expect. Cape Hatteras is seen at 40 miles, which should be 900 feet above the sea level to be visible. This is not the case (Carpenter)
  • Balcony of the alps you can see for  190 miles - no curvature.
  • The Erego Light in Norway is 154 feet above water and visible from 28 miles - it should be 230 feet below the horizon.
  • You can restore the sunken hull of a ship using a telescope. Since telescopes don't peer through a hill of water, the earth must be flat. (Carpenter) This has been replicated by former forum user Tom Bishop.
  • At Rock City you can pay to "See Seven States" an impossibility on a round earth.
  • August 1890 C manoeuvre Fleet signalled with Search Light to colliers 70 miles away; "According to Astronomers these vessels should have been 3,200 feet below the horizon, allowing for a height of 40 feet on the signalling vessel, and 26 on the colliers!!!" Pearsons Weekly related through Terra Firma
  • Daily Mail of 10th Nov 1899 relates Search-light at Kimberley visible at a distance of 115 miles. (Terra Firma)
ROTATION AND MOVEMENT
  • Everything we know and feel says it doesn't spin.
  • We'd feel the rotational acceleration.
  • Air does not feel this acceleration. Winds aren't rushing by us in one direction as gravity would dictate. (Ptolemy)
  • So would projectiles - we've talked to experts and they say the don't account for that. Snipers and Ballistics experts we have interviewed do not account for coriolis effects (Mark Sargent)
  • No difference in the distance bullets travel against or with the supposed rotation (Carpenter)
  • Train tracks degrade eveny on both sides - if the earth rotated they would be more worn on one side.  Railroads have even wear in spite of Coriolis effects.
  • A gun shot upwards, rather than with or against the curvature, falls near the gun - not a ridiculous distance away due to the movement of the planet. (Carpenter)
  • Foucault Pendulums must be controlled magnetically to achieve real results as they are in most museums
  • As often as not the Foucault pendulum travels the incorrect direction!
  • Long range ballistics don't take into account the shape of the earth or its rotation
  • If earth were rotating at 1,000 MPH while revolving at 66,600 MPH around the sun as the sun is traveling at 450,00 MPH gyroscopes would be going nuts.
  • Rotation would be noticed in rabbit eye photographs like those studied by Ter Braak.
  • Rotation would be noticed when moving latitudes, as per the Mulder Law.
  • A helicopter cannot hover in still motion and expect the earth to rotate below him. S. Shenton, Henriet
  • "They say the earth is round, both land and water, and that they are always moving around the sun. But if you ask them how the water keeps in its bed while the earth is turning, they will tell you to take a pail of water and swing it fast and see, for the water will not come out until the pail is slowed down.Who has seen the earth turn around in the way that a person turns a pail? No one. And as long as no one has ever seen or felt the earth turn, you need not believe it so."  Enlightenment of the World
  • Tycho Brahe argued against the rotating earth as if the earth revolved around the sun, the relative position of the stars would change a lot - they measured at intervals of six months and found that they were in exactly the same position as they had been. (Winship)
  • "If the Earth did move at a tremendous speed, how could we keep a grip on it with our feet? ... should find it slipping rapidly under our footsteps. ... Then, which way is it turning? If we walked in the direction of its tremendous speed, it would push us on terribly rapidly." Missen in The Sun Goes Round the Earth
  • Airplanes would stand still when flying at the rate of spin of the Earth in the same direction of spin. Henriet, Heaven and Earth
LUNAR
  • How are the moon phases are lit in seemingly impossible ways when both the sun and moon are in sky?
  • Daytime lunar eclipses as noted by Kepler.  Over 50 Lunar Eclipses have been reported while the Sun is in the sky. How can a lunar eclipse happen when the three bodies are not in a straight line? We are given the answer that its because of refraction. Charles Fort would call this attempted positivism and I happen to agree. The necessity to conform all damned facts to orthodoxy is strong within the indoctrinated. Luckily Samuel Rowbotham gives us a simple experiment to debunk this in ENaG.
  • The lunar eclipse is red. If this was caused by refraction and rayleigh scattering, we'd see a red tint to the everything during the lunar eclipse. Instead, only the moon is red.
  • The moon is semi-transparent. Many reports historically and in moderns times have been given where one can see stars through the moon.
  • The moon's light is of a different nature than the sun - it has its own set of dangerous properties.
  • "We have seen that during a Lunar Eclipse the Moon's self-luminous surface is covered by a semi-transparent 'something'; and this 'something' is a definite mass, because it has a distinct and circular outline, as seen during its first and last contact with the Moon. As a Solar Eclipse occurs from the Moon passing before the Sun, so, from the evidence above collected, it is evidence that a Lunar Eclipse arises from a similar cause. A body, semi-transparent and well defined, passing before the Moon; or between the Moon's surface and the observe on the surface of the Earth. " Zetetic Astronomy
TRAVEL DISTANCES AND GEOGRAPHY
  • Navigation at sea is done through "Plane Sailing"
  • The surveyor's plans for the first Atlantic Telegraph cable show that in 1665 miles - from Valentia Ireland to St. John's Newfoundland - the surface of the Atlantic ocean is a level surface. (Carpenter)
  • The Nile flows 1000 miles with a drop of only 1 foot , Terra Firma
  • Lake Baikal, Siberia - 400 Miles long. One of the flattest places on earth.
  • Impossibility of South based Circumnavigation.
  • Commercial air travel routes for the Southern hemisphere are wrong (Sargent)
  • As circumnavigation is often evidenced for the round earth, the fact that all possible circumnavigations are possible on a flat earth must also be evidence for the flat earth.
  • All flight paths in Northern Hemisphere work. Southern GPS has issues (Sargent)
  • The distance in the Southern Hemisphere is twice that of the Northern (Terra Firma)

SOLAR

  • Antarctic extended daylight times did not match up for me with expected values from almanacs and on board navigation experts
  • Shadows of sticks in various locations show a flat earth with a sun rotating above it (Rowbotham)
  • Shadows of sticks in various locations show a flat earth by Taoist scholars
  • Rays of light are not parallel when passing through clouds from sun.
  • Reflections of the sun on the earths surface
THE HEAVENS AND SPACE
  • The vacuum of space would rip the gas off our planet
  • No vacuum has ever been created, yet we are to believe space is a vacuum
  • The changing heavens and the appearance and disappearance of stars is often cited as evidence for the round earth. It is also evidence towards the idea that "The stars are set in a hemispherical dome so close to the earth that all cannot be seen at the same time" - Voliva.
  • The North Star has been seen below the equator more than 20 degrees south. (Carpenter) This is only possible on a flat earth.
FLIGHT AND SEA TRAVEL
  • No pilot, ever, has adjusted for the Coriolis effect in any stage of flight. The Earth spins at 1040 miles per hour.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 10:22:48 AM by John Davis »
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going)
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2016, 10:11:13 PM »
VARIOUS
  • The horizon rises to eye level
  • Chemtrails do not show curvature. As the pilot travels a constant altitude we would expect them to lie within a plane if the earth is flat, which is what we observe.
  • Rivers such as the Nile would have to flow uphill
  • Vast differences exist in the same number of degrees of Latitude between the Arctic and Antarctic regions, with regard to life and vegetation as evidenced by DWS in Terra Firma, 71.
  • No likeness has ever been shown between the Earth and the Heavenly bodies, thus using induction to draw a connection between the Earth and Planets is incorrect and fallacious. (Carpenter)
  • The sun in the North Pole is weaker than that in the South. This is consistent with flat earth theory.
  • It is often cited that evidence of the globe is its ability to predict eclipses. In actuality, this was a discipline perfected by flat earth cultures. The Chaldeans, Aristarchus and Ptolemy, all come to mind. Mrs Somerville in her "Physical Sciences" p46 remarks:'No particular theory is required to calculate Eclipses, and the calculations may be made with equal accuracy, independent of every theory.'
  • A compass needle is straight; its two ends pointing N and S at the same time, consequently the meridians must be straight lines also; whereas, on a Globe, they are semi-circles. (Terra Firma 99)
  • The moon is distant from the Earth; it makes no sense for a creator to place the light for a world at such a distance as who would place the lamp for their desk 240,000 miles away! (Voliva and Terra Firma).

CONSPIARCY, NASA, TECH AND ACCOUNTS
  • Piccard's testimony about the shape of the earth as the first man to the atmosphere.
  • We have recorded evidence of a missionary reaching the edge of the earth in the Flammarion Engraving
  • Wernher Von Braun quotes the firmament on his tomb.
  • Mr. Blue Marble admits he edits his images to give people an 'earth they expect to see'
  • We've caught NASA showing blue screen technology to fake at least one zero gravity water incident on the ISS
  • One can routinely see guitars, globes, stuffed animals, ape suits, ping pong paddles and so on on the ISS. Are we really to believe they wasted money bringing up a payload of ape suits?!
  • Russia censored The Earth Not A Globe Review.
  • Matt Boylan, a former NASA graphics manager, worked for years creating photo-realistic bunks for the public to eat up. He now is one of the most vocal flatists and his testimonies account to the fact the earth is flat and NASA is lying to us
  • Fake Moon Rocks as Gift to Foreign Countries
  • The fact America spent billions of dollars a year to send man to a useless rock makes no sense. This evidences a conspiracy. Shenton
  • Impossibility to lift off from moon
  • The Flat Earth Society records were set ablaze under very mysterious circumstances
  • The idea that they would hoax going to the moon strongly evidences a flat earth and a flat earth as well finally explains why they would do such a thing. All evidences that we did not travel to the moon should be considered evidences towards the flat earth.
  • Inability to produce a non-distorted antarctic on data sources used by Google Earth.
  • We have hundreds of pictures of the globe, all that look completely different.
  • Lack of ability to provide us with a picture of the globe unaltered and spinning
  • Constant lies and photo manipulation from Camp NASA
  • General Byrds Testimony
  • Antarctic Treaties
  • Instead of swearing on the Bible the went to space, astronauts punch those who ask
  • Leaving the moon would be impossible
  • Stars don't exist in shots where they should and exist in others where they shouldn't
  • NASA is deceiver in Hebrew
RELIGIOUS
  • The Book of Enoch talks of the Flat Earth many times.
  • Biblical passages and historical records where sun stands still are impossible on a globe earth, such as those in Joshua
  • The bible agrees with the moon being self luminated in genesis
  • Genesis describes a flat earth.
  • Isaiah 66:1 and 1 Samuel 2:8 both describe a flat earth.
  • Facing Mecca would be impossible
  • Jesus viewing all the kingdoms of the world
  • Jewish Cosmology describes a dome model
  • Buddhism and Mount Meru describe a flat earth
  • Indonesian and Oceanic religions attest to a flat earth
  • Shinto is a flat earth religion
  • Native American Religions Describe a flat earth
  • Taoists discovered a flat earth
  • Babylonian religions show a flat earth in Enuma Elish
  • Isaiah 40:22, 11:12
  • Psalms 24:2,
  • Proverbs 8:27, 30:4,
  • I Samuel 2: 8
  • Job 9:6, 38:6, 26:7, 26:10
  • Zechariah 12:1
  • Exodus 20:4
  • Deut 5:8
  • Romans 10:18
  • Daniel 4:10-11
  • Matthew 4:8
  • Luke 4:5
  • Revelations 7:1
  • Qur'an is a flat earth book.
  • The Aboriginal mythology shows a flat earth
  • Polynesian mythologies show a flat earth - take Papa-tu-a-nuku ("Flat, Resembling the Earth")
  • Icelandic religions show a flat earth
  • Egyptian religions show a flat earth
  • Hinduism shows a flat earth
  • Jainism shows a flat earth
  • Greek religion shows a flat earth
  • Every religion holds the earth to be flat.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 10:23:24 AM by John Davis »
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going)
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2016, 10:18:49 PM »
To Be Categorized, Counted, And Sorted:
- Antlantic cables distances do not match up (Wardlaw, Parallax)
- South sea navigation takes longer than expected. (Wardlaw, Sir James Clarke Ross)
- Clouds don't move with the atmosphere of the earth round the Sun (Wardlaw V.IV)
- Biblical references to waters 'under the earth' (Wardlaw V.VI)
- Biblical references to stretching the "Heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (Wardlaw)
- Native American references to the same in studies on Shamanism
- Curvature not being accounted for in the construction of Railways (Wardlaw VI.I)
- No rotating body has ever made for the permanent resident of any rational being (Wardlaw VII.III)
- Revelation and nature cannot disagree: if they seem to do so, man is to blame for it. - William Bathgate
- No mention of multiple worlds is ever present in the bible - only the multitude of ages. - Wardlaw VII.III
- "The stars of heaven fell unto the Earth as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind" - Wardlaw VII.III
- The distance of the sun is demonstrable as different from the globular model - Rowbotham in Earth Not A Globe, Winship in Zetetic Cosmogony; Zetetes in The Earth Not A Globe Review
- Eclipses are predictable independent of theory - Hippocratus, for one
- Britain was once warmer than it is now; the remains of tropical productions have been found; this is coherent with the flat earth theory (Wardlaw IX.I)
- Time is lost at sea (Wardlaw IX.II)
- The nearer the sun gets to the Pole star, the earlier it rises, the higher it reaches noon, and the later it sets. Wardlaw IX.III
- Chinese Zodiac is retrograde, suggesting the sun once rotated a different direction; this can be backed up by looking at archeological architectural evidence especially in templates as well as spiritual evidence relating to the burying of the deceased.
- Circumnavigation does not prove a sphere, disproving Isaac Asimov in "From Flat Earth to Quasar" and admitted by (Keith, "Treatise on the use of the Globes" as referenced in Wardlaw III.II)
- Antipode Argument
"A sphere where people on the other side live with their feet above their heads, where rain, snow and hail fall upwards, where trees and crops grow upside-down and the sky is lower than the ground? The ancient wonder of the hanging gardens of Babylon dwindle into nothing in comparison to the fields, seas, towns and mountains that pagan philosphers believe to be hanging from the earth without support!" - Lacantius as related by Dubay in The Flat Earth Conspiracy
"I confess that I cannot imagine how any human being, in his proper sesnses can believe that the sun is stationary when, with his own eyes, he sees it revolving around the heavens, nor how he can believe that the Earth, on which he stands, is whirling with the speed of lightning around the Sun, when he feels not hte slightest motion. I can only account for the delusion having being introduced by Satan" (Wardlaw III.I)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 11:13:11 AM by John Davis »
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going)
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2016, 10:32:48 PM »
RESERVED
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going)
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2016, 10:33:05 PM »
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going)
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2016, 10:47:04 PM »
RESERVED
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going)
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2016, 10:53:43 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to post this John.  Would it be possible to edit this to label the individual points with numbers or letters?  It would make it easier to discuss each point.
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going)
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2016, 10:58:08 PM »
Surely God has said something about learning and avoiding ignorance?

Why do you delight in being so ignorant?

Train tracks should be worn on one side?

The atmosphere will be ripped off?

Gyros will go crazy?

Why are you so determined to be ignorant?

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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2016, 10:59:17 PM »
You are welcome. Unfortunately not as I wish to keep updating it and the list is too long for one post. If I add one under curvature, for example, those afterwards would then shift upwards in number after we've started discussing the point as referenced by a number. I have notebooks full of these and will try to update it as I can.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 11:07:37 PM by John Davis »
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2016, 11:03:36 PM »
Unfortunately not as I wish to keep updating it and the list is too long for one post. If I add one under curvature, for example, those afterwards would then shift upwards in number after we've started discussing the point as referenced by a number.

How about you produce your top 3 of things which can be tested by ordinary people?

Only a religious fanatic or mentally retarded person can believe the world is flat.

Talk is cheap.


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John Davis

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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2016, 11:13:36 PM »
Talk is actually quite expensive as it requires my time. As such, I don't really see any need to help someone calling me a religious fanatic or mentally retarded. Nobody will.
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2016, 11:18:17 PM »
Here is a response for #37 - 87 from the original thread that you posted them on. As you can see, not a single one of these turned out to be convincing at all. I highly suggest you focus on quality rather than quantity. Here are some of the more common problems that I saw:

1. Assuming refraction doesn't exist. It does.
2. Lack of details/documentation/source.
3. Complete, utter lack of understanding of basic physics.

Here goes...

37. 29+ Lunar Eclipses have been reported while the Sun is in the sky. How can a lunar eclipse happen when the three bodies are not in a straight line? We are given the answer that its because of refraction. Charles Fort would call this attempted positivism and I happen to agree. The necessity to conform all damned facts to orthodoxy is strong within the indoctrinated. Luckily Samuel Rowbotham gives us a simple experiment to debunk this in ENaG.

I'm not sure why refraction doesn't make sense here. Is there a reason this explanation seems implausible to you?

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38. The lunar eclipse is red. If this was caused by refraction and rayleigh scattering, we'd see a red tint to the everything during the lunar eclipse. Instead, only the moon is red.

No, there would not be a red tint to everything. Why would you think that? I honestly don't see the logic. I can draw you a diagram as to how it works if you want...

Quote
39. The moon is semi-transparent. Many reports historically and in moderns times have been given where one can see stars through the moon.

There are also many reports of dragons, gnomes, fairies, etc. As the internet-old adage goes: pics or it didn't happen.

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40. We can see further than expected many places on earth. I get several messages a month from folks in distant areas showing me photographs of locations far beyond the curvature. I myself grew up on Lake Ontario and could see the CN tower far further away than I should have as well as the Toronto Skyline.

Some specifics would be nice. I have yet to see a picture that constitutes evidence against a round earth.

Also, when you saw the CN Tower across Lake Ontario, did you happen to notice that a good portion of the base was behind the horizon? You know, like what we would expect if the earth was round, and definitely NOT what we would expect if the earth is flat? Please invoke Rowbotham's "true perspective" to explain this. I was thinking of doing a post specifically to debunk this anyway, since so many flat-earth explanations rely on it.

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41. Impossibility of South based Circumnavigation.

Huh?

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42. No likeness has ever been shown between the Earth and the Heavenly bodies, thus using induction to draw a connection between the Earth and Planets is incorrect and fallacious. (Carpenter)

Easy for you to say, since you automatically deny any evidence that has anything to do with space. Also, this isn't evidence that the earth is flat. It's just a counterargument to a rather weak (IMO) argument for the globe.

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43. The only evidence showing curvature is from Big Science.

"Big Science". Haha. Anyway, there is PLENTY of evidence that you can verify for yourself. For starters:
1. South Celestial Pole.
2. Constant size of the moon/sun.
3. The sun sets below the horizon. (I'll do a post soon to dedunk Rowbotham's ridiculous explanation for this.)

Seriously, this stuff gets posted all the time on these forums. How have you not noticed?

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44. Commercial air travel routes for the Southern hemisphere are wrong (Sargent)

Bullcrap. Millions of people take these flights. I personally know people that take southern hemisphere flights. They get to where they wanted to go. The times make sense on a globe, but not a flat earth.

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45. The surveyor's plans for the first Atlantic Telegraph cable show that in 1665 miles - from Valentia Ireland to St. John's Newfoundland - the surface of the Atlantic ocean is a level surface. (Carpenter)

I'll pass on this one. I don't feel like spending hours right now to verify it. Also, I thought you didn't like appealing to "Big Science" for your evidence. Why does "Big Surveyor" get a pass?

Also, same source (Carpenter) as number 47. Why trust this guy? He is obviously an idiot.

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46.  Shadows of sticks in various locations show a flat earth with a sun rotating above it (Rowbotham)

Rowbotham had the mathematical competency of a middle school dropout. I don't think I read this one in particular, but I'm sure it will be as bad as the rest of the crap he put out.

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47. A gun shot upwards, rather than with or against the curvature, falls near the gun - not a ridiculous distance away due to the movement of the planet. (Carpenter)

I realize that you put a disclaimer at that you didn't necessarily agree with all of these. Can you at least weed out the obviously stupid ones though?

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48. Chemtrails do not show curvature. As the pilot travels a constant altitude we would expect them to lie within a plane if the earth is flat, which is what we observe.

For the 8 billionth time. The earth is REALLY big. How much curvature would you expect to see in these "chemtrails" if the earth has a radius of 4000 miles? Please show the math that led you to these conclusions. No guessing, as usual.

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49.  You can restore the sunken hull of a ship using a telescope. Since telescopes don't peer through a hill of water, the earth must be flat. (Carpenter) This has been replicated by former forum user Tom Bishop.

Pics or it didn't happen. No, Tom Bishop did not replicate this. I was personally involved in quite a long thread asking for Tom Bishop to show his evidence that this happened. He was unable to produce any evidence at all. Go to the "other website" (is the URL still blacklisted?) and look for a thread called "Does the Flat Earth make Verifiable Predictions that differ from the Globe Earth" under the "Flat Earth General" discussion board.

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50. Bedford Level Experiment

The problems with this have been pointed out quite a few times. Among them: no pictorial documentation, no reason that the Bedford canal should perfectly conform to the curvature of the earth to begin with, since it is in fact flowing, and last but not least, he did not take into account refraction.

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51. The North Star has been seen below the equator more than 20 degrees south. (Carpenter) This is only possible on a flat earth.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Also, "Carpenter" is your source. The same genius you sourced for number 47.

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52. Piccard's testimony about the shape of the earth as the first man to the atmosphere.

I assume in his "testimony" he claimed the horizon looked flat? How curved would you expect the horizon to be at his altitude? Show us the math please. No guessing, as usual.

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53. The Nile flows 1000 miles with a drop of only 1 foot (Dubay)

Ok... so? Also, which thousand miles? From where to where?

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54.  The sun is self luminated. The nature of light from the moon is distinctly different from that of the sun. This is impossible in the globe model.

Different how? The light reflects off the moon. Obviously not every wavelength is going to be reflected. You are going to have to be more specific than that.

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55. The bible agrees with 54

Debatable, but irrelevant regardless.

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56. The sun in the North Pole is weaker than that in the South. This is consistent with flat earth theory.

What?? Just... what? So many questions...

1. According to whom?
2. I thought you don't believe in the South Pole. How do you know it's weaker?
3. Why does the flat earth model predict a weaker sun in the North? If anything, it seems like it would be STRONGER in the North.

Quote
57. Weather balloons routinely show a  flat earth unless distorted by the lense - often we'll see this happen as it appears concave/convex/ and flat alternating.  There is no law of optics that would allow a body to appear flat if it was indeed round.

First of all, the exact same "law of optics" that allows flat things to appear curved can cause curved things to appear flat. Obviously. Granted, if it appears continuously flat regardless of orientation, then you can be fairly sure it is actually flat. That being said, I've seen a lot of these pictures of a "flat" horizon from a high altitude balloon. They all turn out to be consistent with a round earth. Simple math is the bane of flat earthers.

Let's see numbers. And pictures. How curved do you expect it to be given the altitude?

Quote
58. The walls of tall buildings can be found to be parallel.

To what degree of precision? Based on the curvature of the earth, how divergent do you expect them to be? Math people, math! Stop the guessing!

Quote
59. As often as not the Foucault pendulum travels the incorrect direction!

[citation needed]

I wouldn't be surprised if some low budget, hobbiest foucalt pendulums swung the wrong way. It only takes a tiny nudge when released to disrupt it.

Quote
60. We are too small to see curvature yet boats can be seen to dip below a hill of water.

Congrats! You found proof of curvature! As to why this happens...

Have you ever tried picking out a straight piece of wood? When looking at it horizontally, it will look fine. But as soon as you look at it lengthwise (like looking down a rifle), you notice every tiny imperfection. Hopefully this gives you an intuitive sense of why we can notice curvature lengthwise, but not horizontally along the horizon. There are also a few other technical/mathy reasons that don't apply to the wood analogy, but we can go into more detail elsewhere if you want.

Quote
61. Lake Baikal, Siberia - 400 Miles long. One of the flattest places on earth.

Cool. Yes, it curves along with the earth just like every other lake. Do you have some evidence that it doesn't or something?

Quote
62. Danyang-Kunshan Grand Bridge, China. 102.4 Mile long bridge does not compensate properly for the curvature of the earth.

This was thoroughly debunked on the "other site". You can look it up. The gist of it is: the alleged damning picture wasn't showing the full 102.4 mile length. There was also some confusion between 2 different bridges and sections of those bridges.

Quote
63. The Erego Light in Norway is 154 feet above water and visible from 28 miles - it should be 230 feet below the horizon.

Oh goodie, another one. Let's see the photo and the numbers. Be sure to include the location the photo was taken from. Also, yes, refraction does happen. Also also, is this another one of those photos that "debunks" the globe by showing the base of an object hidden behind the horizon? You know, that thing that would happen if the earth was a globe, but not if it was flat?

Quote
64. Curvature has not been seen at heights of 38,000 ft

This is getting repetitive. How much curvature do you expect to see at 38,000 feet? Show the math. Guessing is not helpful.

Quote
65. The vacuum of space would rip the gas off our planet

Of course it would, if you assume gravity doesn't exist. Luckily, gravity does exist. You can tell by how stuff tends to come back down after you throw it up.

Technical explanation:
A vacuum doesn't technically exert a force on a gas. Gas is pushed towards the vacuum by the pressure of the gas behind it. Gravity balances out this pressure. For a static atmosphere, the pressure gradient at a particular location is proportional to the strength of gravity at that location.

Quote
66. No vacuum has ever been created, yet we are to believe space is a vacuum

No perfect vacuum has ever been created of any significant size. Space isn't a perfect vacuum either.

Even if space was a perfect vacuum, I don't see how this constitutes proof of anything. There are plenty of things humans can't create that definitely exist.

Quote
67. Reflections of the sun on the earths surface

I have no idea how this constitutes proof of anything. More specific please.

Quote
68. Rays of light are not parallel when passing through clouds from sun.

Oh good grief. Please filter out the obviously stupid ones. If you really believe this is good evidence, I'll draw you a diagram with crayons later.

Quote
69. At Rock City you can pay to "See Seven States" an impossibility on a round earth.

Math! Do the math! For crying out loud, stop guessing and do the math! Make sure you take into account the elevation of the lookout point, and the elevation of places in the states that you can allegedly see.

Quote
70.  Wernher Von Braun quotes the firmament on his tomb.

... grasping for straws a bit now, are we?

Quote
71. One can routinely see guitars, globes, stuffed animals, ape suits, ping pong paddles and so on on the ISS. Are we really to believe they wasted money bringing up a payload of ape suits?!

Hilarious, but not exactly evidence of the shape of the earth.

Quote
72. The locks at Gatun lake would be impossible on a globe.

How so?

Quote
73. We have recorded evidence of a missionary reaching the edge of the earth.

Let's see it then...

Quote
74. We have hundreds of pictures of the globe, all that look completely different.

I'm glad you finally admit that we have hundreds of pictures of the globe. They tend to look different for a number of reasons:

1. Different cameras
2. Different distances
3. Different cloud cover
4. Different sided of the earth

Quote
75. Balcony of the alps you can see for  190 miles - no curvature.

Source? Pics? Math?

Quote
76. You can see Rotspitze, Collalto, GroBglockner, Rote Spitze, Sass De Putia and Sass Rigais from the same spot with no curvature. Also Rauchkofel.

Source? Pics? Math?

Quote
77. No distortion in reflections in ocean curvature.

Huh? Going to have to be more specific please.

Quote
78. Isaiah 66:1 and 1 Samuel 2:8 both describe a flat earth.

Debatable and irrelevant.

Quote
79. Mr. Blue Marble distorts his data to give people an 'earth they expect to see'

He openly admitted that it was a constructed image. Why is this relevant?

Quote
80. We've caught NASA showing blue screen technology to fake at least one zero gravity water incident on the ISS

Irrelevant.

Quote
81. IF earth were rotating at 1,000 MPH while revolving at 66,600 MPH around the sun as the sun is travelling at 450,00 MPH gyroscopes would be going nuts.

Do you really not understand the difference between linear velocity and angular velocity? Don't make me break out the crayons.

Quote
82. Long range ballistics don't take into account the shape of the earth or its rotation

[citation needed]

Quote
83. Shots of Blue Origin from space and from earth show that curvature is seen at ground level the same as from low earth orbit. This proves curvature seen from space is determined by how it was filmed.

Pics. Math. Please. Goodness.

Quote
84. Pyramid (and monolith) complexes in china, mexico, and egypt align to the orion constellation as they know the earth is flat.

I have no idea if this is true or not, but assuming they do align to Orion...

1. What does Orion have to do with the earth being flat?
2. How do you know this was their reasoning?
3. Why do you think they knew more back then than we do now?

Quote
85. Inability to produce a non-distorted antarctic on data sources used by Google Earth.

You are apparently trying to create a non-euclidian model of the earth, and you don't know how projections work? Really?

Quote
86. No pilot, ever, has adjusted for the Coriolis effect in any stage of flight. The Earth spins at 1040 miles per hour.

Show the math!!! Have you bothered calculating how strong the Coriolis effect should be on a plane? Stop guessing. Do the math.

Quote
87. Lake Pontchartrain Causeway, Metairie, LA - 23.87 miles long with 380 Feet of missing curvature.

Details. Pics.

Quote
Evidences 88-120 will be provided next week.

Oh boy, can't wait.

~

50 evidences, none of which were worth anything. Quality is more important than quantity. Try finding at least ONE good piece of evidence that you can actually back up and is persuasive.

What's the point of listing hundreds of zippy one liners if none of them hold up to any scrutiny?

Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2016, 11:23:43 PM »
Talk is actually quite expensive as it requires my time. As such, I don't really see any need to help someone calling me a religious fanatic or mentally retarded. Nobody will.

You owe it to yourself to act with integrity.

What you have said in many of your statements shows lack of knowledge and ignorance about simple things, where it appears you are not interested in learning anything.

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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2016, 11:56:10 PM »
I do act with integrity. As a man of integrity, the best I can do towards that is not respond to folks that use things like mental retardation as a tool to attack strangers on the internet. Shame on you. I hope you never have the misfortune of experience this or having a loved one experience it.

To the other posters and future posters: As stated, This list is intended as an ongoing account of reasons and evidences I've read, heard, or otherwise have been related to me for belief in the Flat Earth.

This isn't the "hey let's teach the globularist's how to read the literature we have already provided for them" hour or the "I want to argue with ballers about every single point" thread. This list is for the benefit of curious flatists and future flatists. As such, I wouldn't expect me to debate.

That said, I'll respond to Totes in a bit.
[John Davis is a DANGEROUS TERRORIST who MAKES US LOOK BAD

Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2016, 11:59:41 PM »
I do act with integrity. As a man of integrity, the best I can do towards that is not respond to folks that use things like mental retardation as a tool to attack strangers on the internet. Shame on you. I hope you never have the misfortune of experience this or having a loved one experience it.

To the other posters and future posters: As stated, This list is intended as an ongoing account of reasons and evidences I've read, heard, or otherwise have been related to me for belief in the Flat Earth.

This isn't the "hey let's teach the globularist's how to read the literature we have already provided for them" hour or the "I want to argue with ballers about every single point" thread. This list is for the benefit of curious flatists and future flatists. As such, I wouldn't expect me to debate.

That said, I'll respond to Totes in a bit.

I have a son with downs syndrome and it is terrible. 

Why do you have a learning problem?     You can be better than you are at the moment.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 12:03:14 AM by Aliveandkicking »

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Ski

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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2016, 12:10:32 AM »
Quote from: fevered reptilian
Bullcrap. Millions of people take these flights. I personally know people that take southern hemisphere flights. They get to where they wanted to go. The times make sense on a globe, but not a flat earth.
This is one of my favourite globular lies.



Notice the large amount of great circle routes in the north (as makes sense on both a flat or round earth), and the dearth in the southern hemiplane.  Also note the (apparent) velocity of transpolar flights in the arctic compared to antarctic.
I guess if you repeat the same lies over and over, you don't have to worry about factual content because "everyone knows it".

More generally to your points (I don't want to take the time to go through them all, and most of your rebuttals seem to be "No, you don't understand physics"),  I would say that I dispute some of your "facts" while also finding some of the evidence presented in the list uncompelling or unsatisfactory.  That doesn't mean it is not evidence. Only that I don't find some of it uncompelling. People are free to weigh evidence (or ignore it altogether) as they see fit. Many globularists seem to be under the impression that I am beholden to convince them the earth is flat. I could not care less about the opinion of random strangers in regards to the earth. I certainly don't have time to spoonfeed them all in the hopes they'll abandon their misplaced faith in an Orthodoxical scientific/religious system.
Nothing personal as I think you're one of the brighter bulbs in the never ending carousel of globularists parading by.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 12:46:54 AM by Ski »
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2016, 12:31:09 AM »
Quote from: fevered reptilian
Bullcrap. Millions of people take these flights. I personally know people that take southern hemisphere flights. They get to where they wanted to go. The times make sense on a globe, but not a flat earth.
This is one of my favourite globular lies.



Notice the large amount of great circle routes in the north (as makes sense on both a flat or round earth), and the dearth in the southern hemisphere.  Also note the (apparent) velocity of transpolar flights in the arctic compared to antarctic.
I guess if you repeat the same lies over and over, you don't have to worry about factual content because "everyone knows it".

More generally to your points (I don't want to take the time to go through them all, and most of your rebuttals seem to be "No, you don't understand physics"),  I would say that I dispute some of your "facts" while also finding some of the evidence presented in the list uncompelling or unsatisfactory.  That doesn't mean it is not evidence. Only that I don't find some of it uncompelling. People are free to weigh evidence (or ignore it altogether) as they see fit. Many globularists seem to be under the impression that I am beholden to convince them the earth is flat. I could not care less about the opinion of random strangers in regards to the earth. I certainly don't have time to spoonfeed them all in the hopes they'll abandon their misplaced faith in an Orthodoxical scientific/religious system.
Nothing personal as I think you're one of the brighter bulbs in the never ending carousel of globularists parading by.

You only need one southern great circle route to destroy your world.

If you look at income levels in the southern hemisphere and the population of the richer countries even somebody with half a brain should see there will be fewer flights.

But you only need one and the gig is up.

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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2016, 12:33:27 AM »
Here is a response for #37 - 87 from the original thread that you posted them on. As you can see, not a single one of these turned out to be convincing at all. I highly suggest you focus on quality rather than quantity. Here are some of the more common problems that I saw:

1. Assuming refraction doesn't exist. It does.
2. Lack of details/documentation/source.
3. Complete, utter lack of understanding of basic physics.

Here goes...


I'm not sure why refraction doesn't make sense here. Is there a reason this explanation seems implausible to you?
The reasoning provided is Rowbotham's experiment.
Quote
No, there would not be a red tint to everything. Why would you think that? I honestly don't see the logic. I can draw you a diagram as to how it works if you want...
The red tint to the moon is supposedly caused by Rayleigh scattering within the atmosphere. Anything between that light source and the moon would be tinted.
Quote
There are also many reports of dragons, gnomes, fairies, etc. As the internet-old adage goes: pics or it didn't happen.
'I'm ignoring the evidence.'
Quote
Some specifics would be nice. I have yet to see a picture that constitutes evidence against a round earth.

Also, when you saw the CN Tower across Lake Ontario, did you happen to notice that a good portion of the base was behind the horizon? You know, like what we would expect if the earth was round, and definitely NOT what we would expect if the earth is flat? Please invoke Rowbotham's "true perspective" to explain this. I was thinking of doing a post specifically to debunk this anyway, since so many flat-earth explanations rely on it.
Yes, the skyline was obscured an incorrect amount, and many days not at all. Specifics would be nice, but its too much of a chore to go through my incoming/outgoing. I will be archiving them better in the future and will post them as they come up.
Quote
Huh?
N/S circumnavigation is impossible.
Quote
Easy for you to say, since you automatically deny any evidence that has anything to do with space. Also, this isn't evidence that the earth is flat. It's just a counterargument to a rather weak (IMO) argument for the globe.
I do not.
Quote
"Big Science". Haha. Anyway, there is PLENTY of evidence that you can verify for yourself. For starters:
1. South Celestial Pole.
2. Constant size of the moon/sun.
3. The sun sets below the horizon. (I'll do a post soon to dedunk Rowbotham's ridiculous explanation for this.)

Seriously, this stuff gets posted all the time on these forums. How have you not noticed?
These are all consistent with flat earth theory.
Quote
Bullcrap. Millions of people take these flights. I personally know people that take southern hemisphere flights. They get to where they wanted to go. The times make sense on a globe, but not a flat earth.
I have taken them myself and not noticed this. However, the flight paths are often very odd, and I believe this was the original context of this. You can read about this in Flat Earth Clues.
Quote
I'll pass on this one. I don't feel like spending hours right now to verify it. Also, I thought you didn't like appealing to "Big Science" for your evidence. Why does "Big Surveyor" get a pass?

Also, same source (Carpenter) as number 47. Why trust this guy? He is obviously an idiot.
'I'm ignoring the evidence.'
Quote
Rowbotham had the mathematical competency of a middle school dropout. I don't think I read this one in particular, but I'm sure it will be as bad as the rest of the crap he put out.
'I'm ignoring the evidence.' Similar experiments were also performed by Taoist scientists far earlier.
Quote

I realize that you put a disclaimer at that you didn't necessarily agree with all of these. Can you at least weed out the obviously stupid ones though?
No. There are many I have not posted as I have not seen anybody cite them.
Quote
For the 8 billionth time. The earth is REALLY big. How much curvature would you expect to see in these "chemtrails" if the earth has a radius of 4000 miles? Please show the math that led you to these conclusions. No guessing, as usual.
For the millionth time, given the field of vision skyward curvature would be noticed.
Quote
Pics or it didn't happen. No, Tom Bishop did not replicate this. I was personally involved in quite a long thread asking for Tom Bishop to show his evidence that this happened. He was unable to produce any evidence at all. Go to the "other website" (is the URL still blacklisted?) and look for a thread called "Does the Flat Earth make Verifiable Predictions that differ from the Globe Earth" under the "Flat Earth General" discussion board.
It has been reproduced by a number of other flatists as well. Rowbotham, again, comes to mind.
Quote
The problems with this have been pointed out quite a few times. Among them: no pictorial documentation, no reason that the Bedford canal should perfectly conform to the curvature of the earth to begin with, since it is in fact flowing, and last but not least, he did not take into account refraction.
Blount gave pictorial documentation. Water *should* conform to the curvature of the earth, if it is round. It is in fact a very still canal, and not 'flowing'. Finally, refraction was taken into account in future attempts, though its odd you think refraction would help the globularist argument here as that shows a lack of understanding of basic physics.
Quote
Pics or it didn't happen.

Also, "Carpenter" is your source. The same genius you sourced for number 47.
He provides his sources in the literature.
Quote
I assume in his "testimony" he claimed the horizon looked flat? How curved would you expect the horizon to be at his altitude? Show us the math please. No guessing, as usual.
He described it as a large flat disk, yes.
Quote
Ok... so? Also, which thousand miles? From where to where?
You can find the specifics in the literature.
Quote
Different how? The light reflects off the moon. Obviously not every wavelength is going to be reflected. You are going to have to be more specific than that.
It is dangerous, for one. It is cold, for another. You can find information about this in the literature.
Quote
Debatable, but irrelevant regardless.
Hardly irrelevant for the religious.
Quote

What?? Just... what? So many questions...

1. According to whom?
2. I thought you don't believe in the South Pole. How do you know it's weaker?
3. Why does the flat earth model predict a weaker sun in the North? If anything, it seems like it would be STRONGER in the North.
1. The ice and wildlife there. As posted above, TF evidences this as does Rowbotham. You can find information about this in other literature as well.
Quote
First of all, the exact same "law of optics" that allows flat things to appear curved can cause curved things to appear flat. Obviously. Granted, if it appears continuously flat regardless of orientation, then you can be fairly sure it is actually flat. That being said, I've seen a lot of these pictures of a "flat" horizon from a high altitude balloon. They all turn out to be consistent with a round earth. Simple math is the bane of flat earthers.

Let's see numbers. And pictures. How curved do you expect it to be given the altitude?
I'd like to see the numbers and pictures for your wild assertion.
Quote
To what degree of precision? Based on the curvature of the earth, how divergent do you expect them to be? Math people, math! Stop the guessing!
Again you can find this in flat earth literature.
Quote
[citation needed]

I wouldn't be surprised if some low budget, hobbiest foucalt pendulums swung the wrong way. It only takes a tiny nudge when released to disrupt it.
Try it yourself.
Quote
Congrats! You found proof of curvature! As to why this happens...

Have you ever tried picking out a straight piece of wood? When looking at it horizontally, it will look fine. But as soon as you look at it lengthwise (like looking down a rifle), you notice every tiny imperfection. Hopefully this gives you an intuitive sense of why we can notice curvature lengthwise, but not horizontally along the horizon. There are also a few other technical/mathy reasons that don't apply to the wood analogy, but we can go into more detail elsewhere if you want.
Unfortunately they return to view when looking through a telescope.
Quote
Cool. Yes, it curves along with the earth just like every other lake. Do you have some evidence that it doesn't or something?
It does not. Research it.
Quote
This was thoroughly debunked on the "other site". You can look it up. The gist of it is: the alleged damning picture wasn't showing the full 102.4 mile length. There was also some confusion between 2 different bridges and sections of those bridges.
You really have a hard on for pictures don't you? The curve was not accounted for in construction. Your level of "debunking" is laughable as well.
Quote
Oh goodie, another one. Let's see the photo and the numbers. Be sure to include the location the photo was taken from. Also, yes, refraction does happen. Also also, is this another one of those photos that "debunks" the globe by showing the base of an object hidden behind the horizon? You know, that thing that would happen if the earth was a globe, but not if it was flat?
You can do this yourself. I gave you the relevant data.
Quote
This is getting repetitive. How much curvature do you expect to see at 38,000 feet? Show the math. Guessing is not helpful.
See Lynch in Applied Optics on visible curvature of the earth.
Quote
Of course it would, if you assume gravity doesn't exist. Luckily, gravity does exist. You can tell by how stuff tends to come back down after you throw it up.

Technical explanation:
A vacuum doesn't technically exert a force on a gas. Gas is pushed towards the vacuum by the pressure of the gas behind it. Gravity balances out this pressure. For a static atmosphere, the pressure gradient at a particular location is proportional to the strength of gravity at that location.
Yes, its possible to create a coherent model by choosing the appropriate variables wisely. This makes the idea no less ridiculous.
Quote
No perfect vacuum has ever been created of any significant size. Space isn't a perfect vacuum either.

Even if space was a perfect vacuum, I don't see how this constitutes proof of anything. There are plenty of things humans can't create that definitely exist.
The fact you can't show me a space-like vacuum is paramount to whether or not one should believe one exists. This would be a simple feat for NASA.
Quote
I have no idea how this constitutes proof of anything. More specific please.
Look at them.
Quote
Oh good grief. Please filter out the obviously stupid ones. If you really believe this is good evidence, I'll draw you a diagram with crayons later.


Math! Do the math! For crying out loud, stop guessing and do the math! Make sure you take into account the elevation of the lookout point, and the elevation of places in the states that you can allegedly see.
I have.
Quote
... grasping for straws a bit now, are we?
Nope.
Quote
Hilarious, but not exactly evidence of the shape of the earth.
Evidence of the inplausibility of NASA's stunts is evidence of the shape of the earth.
Quote
How so?
Due to the heights of the locks and the curvature of the earth.
Quote
Let's see it then...
The Flammarion Cutting. Good news for you - its a picture  ::)
Quote
I'm glad you finally admit that we have hundreds of pictures of the globe. They tend to look different for a number of reasons:

1. Different cameras
2. Different distances
3. Different cloud cover
4. Different sided of the earth
The differences are not recognicilable. They are different because folks like Matt Boylan and Blue Marble created them, as attested to by both.
Quote
Source? Pics? Math?
Look the pics up yourself.
Quote
Source? Pics? Math?
Look the pics up yourself.
Quote
Huh? Going to have to be more specific please.
Curved surfaces distort reflections
Quote
Debatable and irrelevant.
Again, not irrelevant.
Quote
He openly admitted that it was a constructed image. Why is this relevant?
The fact he openly admitted that NASA fakes their images of the earth seems extremely relevant.
Quote
Irrelevant.
The fact they have been caught faking what was supposed to be a candid ISS water gravity-lessness is extremely relevant.
Quote
Do you really not understand the difference between linear velocity and angular velocity? Don't make me break out the crayons.
Of course I do. Though, I seem to get the feeling you use crayons for all your math and base all your beliefs off pictures. How dense could you be?
Quote
[citation needed]
Sargent interviewed a few. I know he has at least one. Look it up. Citations aren't needed for common knowledge.
Quote
Pics. Math. Please. Goodness.
Look up the pics yourself.
Quote
You are apparently trying to create a non-euclidian model of the earth, and you don't know how projections work? Really?
Oh, so projecting a globe onto a globe creates tears in the imagery? Good one.
Quote
Show the math!!! Have you bothered calculating how strong the Coriolis effect should be on a plane? Stop guessing. Do the math.
Yes I have.
Quote
Details. Pics.
I gave details.
Quote
Oh boy, can't wait.

~

50 evidences, none of which were worth anything. Quality is more important than quantity. Try finding at least ONE good piece of evidence that you can actually back up and is persuasive.

What's the point of listing hundreds of zippy one liners if none of them hold up to any scrutiny?
Its not hard to claim none are worth anything when you ignore them all and cry about crayons, math, and pictures.  Don't expect further responses from me.
[John Davis is a DANGEROUS TERRORIST who MAKES US LOOK BAD

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John Davis

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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2016, 12:36:24 AM »
Quote from: fevered reptilian
Bullcrap. Millions of people take these flights. I personally know people that take southern hemisphere flights. They get to where they wanted to go. The times make sense on a globe, but not a flat earth.
This is one of my favourite globular lies.



Notice the large amount of great circle routes in the north (as makes sense on both a flat or round earth), and the dearth in the southern hemisphere.  Also note the (apparent) velocity of transpolar flights in the arctic compared to antarctic.
I guess if you repeat the same lies over and over, you don't have to worry about factual content because "everyone knows it".

More generally to your points (I don't want to take the time to go through them all, and most of your rebuttals seem to be "No, you don't understand physics"),  I would say that I dispute some of your "facts" while also finding some of the evidence presented in the list uncompelling or unsatisfactory.  That doesn't mean it is not evidence. Only that I don't find some of it uncompelling. People are free to weigh evidence (or ignore it altogether) as they see fit. Many globularists seem to be under the impression that I am beholden to convince them the earth is flat. I could not care less about the opinion of random strangers in regards to the earth. I certainly don't have time to spoonfeed them all in the hopes they'll abandon their misplaced faith in an Orthodoxical scientific/religious system.
Nothing personal as I think you're one of the brighter bulbs in the never ending carousel of globularists parading by.
A very accurate assessment.
[John Davis is a DANGEROUS TERRORIST who MAKES US LOOK BAD

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Ski

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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2016, 12:43:18 AM »
Quote
You only need one southern great circle route to destroy your world.
By all means, find one covering the same amount of ground as quickly as those on transpolar routes.
Also, I would think you'd need to find many, unless we're assuming airlines deliberately take longer/slower routes. Do you think people in the southern hemiplane are less intelligent or that they just don't like money?
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2016, 12:49:34 AM »
Quote
fevered reptilian

Reptilians are cold-blooded. We don't get fevers.

Quote from: fevered reptilian
Bullcrap. Millions of people take these flights. I personally know people that take southern hemisphere flights. They get to where they wanted to go. The times make sense on a globe, but not a flat earth.
This is one of my favourite globular lies.



Notice the large amount of great circle routes in the north (as makes sense on both a flat or round earth), and the dearth in the southern hemisphere.  Also note the (apparent) velocity of transpolar flights in the arctic compared to antarctic.

Yes, there are many more flights in the north. Most of the first world is in the north. There just isn't much demand for flights between South Africa and South America. The actual paths of the few flights that exist do follow great circle routes though. Not flat earth routes. As for the velocity argument: I honestly don't see it. Perhaps take a screenshot and circle one of the dots that appears to be going too fast/slow?

Quote
I guess if you repeat the same lies over and over, you don't have to worry about factual content because "everyone knows it".

Literally anyone, including you, can take these flights. The times are posted publicly. If you don't believe me, go confirm it for yourself.

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John Davis

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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2016, 12:56:40 AM »
Mark Sargent's writers devote an entire chapter to walking people through this process. Its too long to reproduce here so I suggest you read it yourself. You'll be surprised.
[John Davis is a DANGEROUS TERRORIST who MAKES US LOOK BAD

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Heiwa

  • 7310
Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2016, 01:11:27 AM »
This list is intended as an ongoing account of reasons and evidences I've read, heard, or otherwise have been related to me for belief in the Flat Earth.
...

WATER IS LEVEL
  • Water has been determined experimentally to be level. If the earth was round, and spun, water would not be level.

As far as I am concerned ocean and sea water is not level. The interface water/air is wavy and moving all the time causing sea sickness, etc, if you are there. And below the interface there are currents - the ocean water moves, e.g. the Gulf stream full of warm water and fish. And sometimes the interface water/air disappears completely and is replaced by a muddy sea bottom/air interface at low tide. It makes me conclude earth is round. No big deal really. It is fun to fool people with crazy ideas of all sorts.

Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2016, 01:44:33 AM »
...This list is intended as an ongoing account of reasons and evidences I've read, heard, or otherwise have been related to me for belief in the Flat Earth.

This isn't the "hey let's teach the globularist's how to read the literature we have already provided for them" hour or the "I want to argue with ballers about every single point" thread. This list is for the benefit of curious flatists and future flatists. As such, I wouldn't expect me to debate.

That said, I'll respond to Totes in a bit.

Fair enough. I won't try to continue the debate on any point in particular, at least not in this thread.

Most of your responses to my critiques were along the lines of "look it up yourself". This is perfectly reasonable. I wouldn't expect anyone to provide details for such a long list of topics. However, I would like to explain why most of my responses were along the lines of "please provide details/pictures/source/math".

Many of the "proofs" that flat earthers provide tend to be along the lines of: "I can't see curvature in this view/picture. Therefore, the earth is flat!" Their reasons for expecting to be able to see the curvature are entirely based on their own intuition/feeling. They haven't bothered to actually calculate how much curvature should be visible. Then someone comes in, does the math for them, which shows that the curvature should be negligible, and they scurry off. Or they just ignore the math. Rinse and repeat.

As soon as we get into the details and math, all these flat earth "evidences" tend to break down rather quickly. I will gladly discuss any single one of these "evidences" in more detail in a separate thread. Pick the one you think is the strongest. I bet it doesn't hold up.

You really have a hard on for pictures don't you?

It depends on the content of the picture, really. Curves are a definite plus... hehehe

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rabinoz

  • 19331
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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2016, 01:58:51 AM »
Quote from: fevered reptilian
Bullcrap. Millions of people take these flights. I personally know people that take southern hemisphere flights. They get to where they wanted to go. The times make sense on a globe, but not a flat earth.
This is one of my favourite globular lies.



Notice the large amount of great circle routes in the north (as makes sense on both a flat or round earth), and the dearth in the southern hemiplane.  Also note the (apparent) velocity of transpolar flights in the arctic compared to antarctic.
I guess if you repeat the same lies over and over, you don't have to worry about factual content because "everyone knows it".
I had thought you a little above this sort of tactic!

Don't your think that the frequency of flights might be connected to the population in the various regions? And it's not a simple linear relationship either.
The number of flights between an origin and a destination depends on the population of the origin and the number of "establishments" they might want to visit at each destination.
So, I would postulate that the density of flights would be roughly proportional to the product of populations of each.
This is a gross simplification, of course, as countries such as China and India do not have commensurate business activity.

Nevertheless look at:

But, whatever you claim, there are real direct flights between:
Sydney, Australia and Santiago, Chile on QANTAS,
Sydney and Johannesburg, South Africa on QANTAS and
Sao Paulo, Brazil to Johannesburg, South Africa on South African Airways.
Those flights are shown on your video, so why question only those..

Now, as far as I know there are no commercial  transpolar flights across the Antarctic for a very simple reason.
About the only route that might go over the South Pole is from Perth to Buenos Aires and there is simply too little demand.
As well as that flights over Antarctica are obliged to carry suitable polar survival gear, as there a few possible diversion points and rescue services.

I could not claim that "millions of people take these flights", though I would estimate at the very least over 10,000 per week do; not a big number, but I guess it adds up some millions over a decade, so totes might not be far off.

But, please explain why 1,000's of Northern Hemisphere flights can be taken as real, but a much smaller number in the Southern Hemisphere are lies!

And your claim "I guess if you repeat the same lies over and over, you don't have to worry about factual content" is so true, because Flat Earthers do it with so much we see in the Southern Hemisphere.
But, we have eyes too! We can see so much that you, in your ignorance deny.

So don't make yourself look ridiculous by denying easily verifiable facts.

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John Davis

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Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2016, 02:05:09 AM »
You have just posted an evidence of the earth being flat - as the North Pole acts differently than the South even in terms of distribution of our population.
[John Davis is a DANGEROUS TERRORIST who MAKES US LOOK BAD

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zork

  • 3319
Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2016, 02:11:59 AM »
 Such a long list but... water definitely has not been experimentally determined to be level. Ships wake does not converge to a point like it should in level and flat surface.
 And "viewing impossible distances"? Quote - "We can see further than expected many places on earth." That means only in some places, not everywhere and these kind of things can be blamed on weather conditions. But still no explanation why we can't see farther in every place on earth than we see now. Why we see exactly so far on flat earth as we would see in round earth?
  And I still don't understand how any of these things on list counts as evidence for flat earth. Some small detail or discrepancy or misunderstanging does not prove anything.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2016, 02:12:15 AM »
You have just posted an evidence of the earth being flat - as the North Pole acts differently than the South even in terms of distribution of our population.
What has population to do with the shape of the earth?

'Lake Quinsigamond is level. "The writer, with a first-class mechanic and a well-known up-to-date photographer, made a trip to Lake Quinsigamond on the 2nd day of June, 1908,'

When was this repeated, recently?

Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2016, 02:13:39 AM »
You have just posted an evidence of the earth being flat - as the North Pole acts differently than the South even in terms of distribution of our population.

Bullshit. Nobody lives at the north pole.  Not even father christmas.   Nobody is living within 600 miles of the North pole

There is a small army of people living at the South pole and hundreds more scattered around the larger area.

Your response?  Lies and whatever you can pull out your arse.

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zork

  • 3319
Re: Evidences Of The Flat Earth (On Going @133)
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2016, 02:14:52 AM »
You have just posted an evidence of the earth being flat - as the North Pole acts differently than the South even in terms of distribution of our population.
You just devised a way to make beach ball flat. Just put more ants on upper surface and beach ball turns flat. Yey.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.