A challenge that I hope is debated honestly

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2016, 11:32:05 PM »
No experiment will disprove a flat earth as all experiments show a flat earth is on the level.

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Omega

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2016, 12:01:24 AM »
No experiment will disprove a flat earth as all experiments show a flat earth is on the level.

Read my post again.

Is there an experiment that COULD disprove it? NOT WOULD but COULD?

Honest debate means not changing my question.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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rabinoz

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2016, 12:19:14 AM »
No experiment will disprove a flat earth as all experiments show a flat earth is on the level.

Why is it then that no-one will adequately answer the "simple things" we see and/or have voluminous to support, such as:
  • Sunrises and sunsets. Moonrises and moonsets etc.

  • Constant angular size of the sun and almost constant angular size of the moon.

  • The phases on the moon, and the fact almost exactly that same phase can be viewed over half the earth at once.

  • Lunar eclipses. The Wiki explanation is patently ridiculous.

  • Even the explanation for Solar eclipses does not really explain what is observed.

  • The sharp sea-air horizon we see on a clear day.

Sort out these simple things first!


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Omega

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2016, 12:44:59 AM »
No experiment will disprove a flat earth as all experiments show a flat earth is on the level.

Why is it then that no-one will adequately answer the "simple things" we see and/or have voluminous to support, such as:
  • Sunrises and sunsets. Moonrises and moonsets etc.

  • Constant angular size of the sun and almost constant angular size of the moon.

  • The phases on the moon, and the fact almost exactly that same phase can be viewed over half the earth at once.

  • Lunar eclipses. The Wiki explanation is patently ridiculous.

  • Even the explanation for Solar eclipses does not really explain what is observed.

  • The sharp sea-air horizon we see on a clear day.

Sort out these simple things first!

Please don't let John derail this.

I ask if he can imagine an experiment which COULD disprove FE.

This thread is explicitly not about the Earth being round.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2016, 03:40:15 AM »
 

the lunar eclipse is absolutely all you need, the shadow produced is our shadow, the sun being on the opposite side of us is the irrefutable evidence
the FE's have attempted to explain it but none of the explanations get past the basic testing stage, whereas the globe explanation, as you asked, is repeatable

seeing a sharp horizon, wouldn't happen on a flat earth - but it happens

north star can not be seen from deep in the southern hemisphere - no explanation necessary

meteors disprove a glass/ice dome

sun rays disprove the localised sun


I gave you 5 testable, repeatable examples..

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Omega

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2016, 03:47:53 AM »
 

the lunar eclipse is absolutely all you need, the shadow produced is our shadow, the sun being on the opposite side of us is the irrefutable evidence
the FE's have attempted to explain it but none of the explanations get past the basic testing stage, whereas the globe explanation, as you asked, is repeatable

seeing a sharp horizon, wouldn't happen on a flat earth - but it happens

north star can not be seen from deep in the southern hemisphere - no explanation necessary

meteors disprove a glass/ice dome

sun rays disprove the localised sun


I gave you 5 testable, repeatable examples..

I know. I agree they are all solid examples of perfectly valid experiments.

I want John (or any other flat earther) to provide an experiment and evidence THEY would accept. Again: would. Not making statements either way.

This is not an exercise in proving the Earth is a globe.

It's about finding out if flat earth believers are willing to come up with *any* feasible experiment that *might* prove they are wrong.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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Slemon

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2016, 05:23:42 AM »
Dear forum dwellers

Describe to me an experiment that can disprove the Earth is flat.

I am not asking you to prove it is flat, nor am I asking you to 'consider the other side of the argument'.

I am asking the following:

You say "the Earth is flat. I am sure of it. If it wasn't flat then..."

The '...' is the experiment. You describe the experiment and the evidence required to convince YOU that the earth is in fact not flat. It has to be testable and repeatable.

Have you spoken with JRowe? I think he had something along those lines. Not sure if it's what you're looking for, technically it only tests for a consequence of his model of FE, but generally speaking it seems about right. Technology required is a balloon and a gravimeter.

If he wishes to buy me the equipment I'd be happy to run that test for him. I actually live relatively close to the Bonneville salt flats  and launching a weather balloon there sounds like a lot of fun.

I don't think we're talking about the same experiment. The one he's always been talking about is watching a gravimeter as you ascend in a balloon, and trying to find sudden jumps.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Crouton

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2016, 09:35:12 AM »
Dear forum dwellers

Describe to me an experiment that can disprove the Earth is flat.

I am not asking you to prove it is flat, nor am I asking you to 'consider the other side of the argument'.

I am asking the following:

You say "the Earth is flat. I am sure of it. If it wasn't flat then..."

The '...' is the experiment. You describe the experiment and the evidence required to convince YOU that the earth is in fact not flat. It has to be testable and repeatable.

Have you spoken with JRowe? I think he had something along those lines. Not sure if it's what you're looking for, technically it only tests for a consequence of his model of FE, but generally speaking it seems about right. Technology required is a balloon and a gravimeter.

If he wishes to buy me the equipment I'd be happy to run that test for him. I actually live relatively close to the Bonneville salt flats  and launching a weather balloon there sounds like a lot of fun.

I don't think we're talking about the same experiment. The one he's always been talking about is watching a gravimeter as you ascend in a balloon, and trying to find sudden jumps.

I'm familiar with it, yes. But hey why no stick a go pro on it while I'm at it for some extra science.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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Slemon

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2016, 09:40:45 AM »

I'm familiar with it, yes. But hey why no stick a go pro on it while I'm at it for some extra science.
You might damage someone's roof  :o
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Crouton

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2016, 10:54:44 AM »

I'm familiar with it, yes. But hey why no stick a go pro on it while I'm at it for some extra science.
You might damage someone's roof  :o

I know, that was hilarious. I can't rule out catastrophic failure but I do have some skill and experience in these matters.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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SpJunk

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2016, 07:08:55 PM »
You are asking impossible question.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE which Flat Earthers would accept as proof against Flat Earth.
Every proof they only see as faith trial.
They do anything to find proof against it, to discredit it, to ignore it, or directly call it "lie, fake, conspiracy, ...".

That is why Moon landing is so hated. They would erase it from history if they could.
And they are already doing all they can to prevent space agencies from sending people to Mars,
or from establishing permanent Moon colony. NASA is main target as the most famous one.

They would allow nothing to shake their belief.

Not even if ... (I will let them answer that part).
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein

"Your lack of simplicity is main reason why not many people would bother to try to understand you." - S.M.

Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2016, 07:50:29 PM »
Among the problems the FEers have is that the evidence of the 20th century is working against them.  On a perfectly flat surface - such as one of reasonably limited dimensions such as a basketball court floor - you could see, with your eye or a mirror right at the floor, all the way across to even confetti resting on the floor on the farthest end.  But in terms of serious distances, someone whose head is merely above water in the ocean could not see a beach more than 3 miles away (he might see the tops of trees that far away though).  Even going to the Observation Deck of the Empire State Building will not enable someone to see Trenton NJ or Boston.  Even a jetliner over NYC will not have a view of Los Angeles.  The FEers have strange explanations for this involving optics - stuff Newton never said - but the simple fact is that the higher you go the more of the Earth you can see, which is consistent with a globe and, in fact, by doing some calculation about the altitude and how far the horizon reaches, you could make a pretty fair guess about the size of the globe.

That's one.  Another problem is that, even now in the 21st century, the FEers have yet to come up with a convincing map of the Flat Earth.  It shouldn't be that hard.  All the conventional map makers can come up with road maps that pretty much are confirmed for mileage and direction, so why do we doubt them when they get ambitious enough to map the whole world at once?  So far I'm not even sure an FEer could draw me a map to the neighborhood grocery - they have yet to come up with definitive map of the planet, showing the EDGE (and it should be in every direction if you go far enough).  They come up with wild stories about Antarctica, which we now know aren't true, but after decades of propaganda - nothing solid, not one intrepid explorer from the FES has even tried to reach the EDGE in any direction.  They might as well be telling us that Jack's beanstalk is still reaching into the sky somewhere.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2016, 07:57:41 PM »
The air also gets thinner as you increase in altitude.  It is not surprising that you would be able to see farther in thin air that at ground level. 

Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2016, 08:17:01 PM »
Air at the top of the Empire State Building is not ENOUGH thinner than ground level air to explain the added miles of visibility.  Heck, you can see the sun set twice on a given night by watching the sun set while lying on the ground and jumping to your feet once it sets.  You can't tell me the air is significantly thinner at head level than it is at feet level!

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Son of Orospu

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2016, 08:37:10 PM »
Air at the top of the Empire State Building is not ENOUGH thinner than ground level air to explain the added miles of visibility.  Heck, you can see the sun set twice on a given night by watching the sun set while lying on the ground and jumping to your feet once it sets.  You can't tell me the air is significantly thinner at head level than it is at feet level!

When did you get your doctoral degree in air thinness visibility?  I would ask for my money back if I were you. 

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Woody

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2016, 08:41:00 PM »
No experiment will disprove a flat earth as all experiments show a flat earth is on the level.

John thanks for proving me right.  No FE will look objectively at the hypothesis the Earth is flat.

It would be relatively simple to come up with an experiment to prove the hypothesis wrong that you would accept. That is if you are willing to be objective and do not claim having special knowledge.

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zork

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Re: A challenge that I hope is debated honestly
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2016, 11:12:17 PM »
No experiment will disprove a flat earth as all experiments show a flat earth is on the level.
  I am sticking the ships wake here again. At least water in oceans is not level as ships wake does not converge to the point at horizon as it should in flat and level plane.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.