Airplane Route Challenge

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Airplane Route Challenge
« on: August 31, 2016, 04:25:42 PM »
Out of deep concern for a friend who has recently succumbed to this Flat-Earth psyop thing, I've decided to crowd-fund a challenge.  Yes, I'm starting to lean towards the possibility that this disinfo is being broadcast to make all "truthers" look like idiots when there are some actual conspiracies out there that need to be investigated.  Get everyone arguing about basic, fundamental science in an incorherent way and they'll never actually stand together for anything...  Maybe it's a little paranoid of me, but not as paranoid as believing that all modern scientists are either in on the conspiracy or too stupid to figure it out (now THAT's paranoia in a serious way, or at least severe narcissism...).  It's like watching someone get involved in some racist extremist group or super wacko religion and I'm left wondering when I can get my friend back to where we can have regular conversations again.

It's often difficult to reconcile science vs. beliefs, so the typical empirical arguments don't seem to work with the flat-earthers.  There is always an ad-hoc response, and the impossible-to-respond-to statement "I don't believe in ______."  Sort of like telling a vending machine repairman that vending machines don't exist.  Ok, you may not believe in vending machines, but that won't stop him from repairing them.  Personally having been on a NASA base a great number of times and having family and friends all in their employ is not enough for my friend.  Neither are curved shadows on the moon, tides, equatorial co-rotation, the fact that there is a horizon, etc.  He seems to need something more in-your-face.  Not words and complex ideas that can't be learned in a single youtube video, but something easier to understand.  As an environmental chemist by degree, I try and explain that the same system of science that brings us concepts like atmospheric diffraction, the ability to put objects into orbit, that explains how atmospheric carbon becomes wood etc, is the same system that allows us to design cars and copy machines and computers and such everyday, readily tangible things.  It's robust, it works every time, and when it doesn't, science changes course to reflect the evidence.  Nevermind that when taken metaphorically nearly all religious texts are completely consonant with evolution and big-bang, let's stick to things we can see and touch.

If anyone wants to become rich, change science forever, and be the most famous person in the history books from now on, all they have to do is publish a paper in peer-reviewed scientific literature that proves the earth is flat, and if it stands unrebutted, it's generally accepted as scientific fact.  Why post online when you could be making history?  I have several professors and a few friends who have done exactly this in the way of discovering "new" compounds and organisms. 

Anyway, let me get back to the point.  Since private space exploration is prohibitively expensive, I've decided to start an Indiegogo campaign to buy my friend a series of plane tickets whose routes are "impossible" on his map.  Namely, direct flights from Australia to South America, SA to Africa, and Africa to Australia.  These are readily available, if expensive, and since he probably believes the flights are fake and just posted to fool us, I thought that he needs to be the one to see that one can fly from Auckland to Buenos Aires in elevenish hours, etc.  I hope that anyone else who is also concerned about their friends or family to follow suit.  Maybe someone is rich enough to actually send a flat-earther to space?  This campaign is just for a series of plane tickets though.

Indiegogo link to follow soon, please consider contributing if this phenomenon makes you worried about others' mental health.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2016, 04:39:03 PM »
Can I get a round trip San Diego to Belize? Around mid-January?

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sliminator

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2016, 04:42:53 PM »
I am a New Zealander living in Ecuador. I have to fly the Chile / NZ route to get back home and have done it at least 8 times. It for sure only takes 12 to 14 hours, I guess depending on winds.

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disputeone

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2016, 04:59:13 PM »
I am in Australia and will happily take aforementioned plane ticket to south america.

Will you post the tickets by mail or all online?

Edit, a return flight and acocomodation would be nice, maybe some spending money also.
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Crouton

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2016, 05:14:43 PM »
I'd like to request Phoenix to Los Angeles around Thanksgiving if possible.
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Crouton

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2016, 05:23:29 PM »
Seriously though you don't even need "impossible" flights.

He's searched for flights right? And he believes Expedia isn't straight up lying to him?

Do this then. Take a major city. Note the flight time and speed to another major city. On a piece of paper draw a line scaled to the distance of that flight. Keep doing this until you have all the major hubs mapped. If the earth is flat all your distances will make sense On a flat piece of paper.
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rabinoz

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2016, 06:55:15 PM »
I am a New Zealander living in Ecuador. I have to fly the Chile / NZ route to get back home and have done it at least 8 times. It for sure only takes 12 to 14 hours, I guess depending on winds.
;D Can you prove that you were not drugged during the flights so that the plane could  refuel in Los Angeles and have the crew set your watch back?  ;D
Don't laugh, I've seen essentially that suggested.

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sliminator

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2016, 09:06:27 PM »
Sorry but yeah... I have to laugh..... HAHAHAHAAJAJAJAJAA

Actually I HATE to fly. Im not scared of flying, just nervous and on edge. So even though its a frigging long flight and I have a massive stop over in Chile, Try as I might, I cant get a wink of sleep... totally wide awake the whole flight.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2016, 09:22:02 PM »
Sorry but yeah... I have to laugh..... HAHAHAHAAJAJAJAJAA

Actually I HATE to fly. Im not scared of flying, just nervous and on edge. So even though its a frigging long flight and I have a massive stop over in Chile, Try as I might, I cant get a wink of sleep... totally wide awake the whole flight.

Tank up before boarding and top off with a couple more in flight.   :D



Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2016, 12:18:14 AM »
Out of deep concern for a friend who has recently succumbed to this Flat-Earth psyop thing, I've decided to crowd-fund a challenge.  Yes, I'm starting to lean towards the possibility that this disinfo is being broadcast to make all "truthers" look like idiots when there are some actual conspiracies out there that need to be investigated.  Get everyone arguing about basic, fundamental science in an incorherent way and they'll never actually stand together for anything...  Maybe it's a little paranoid of me, but not as paranoid as believing that all modern scientists are either in on the conspiracy or too stupid to figure it out (now THAT's paranoia in a serious way, or at least severe narcissism...).  It's like watching someone get involved in some racist extremist group or super wacko religion and I'm left wondering when I can get my friend back to where we can have regular conversations again.

It's often difficult to reconcile science vs. beliefs, so the typical empirical arguments don't seem to work with the flat-earthers.  There is always an ad-hoc response, and the impossible-to-respond-to statement "I don't believe in ______."  Sort of like telling a vending machine repairman that vending machines don't exist.  Ok, you may not believe in vending machines, but that won't stop him from repairing them.  Personally having been on a NASA base a great number of times and having family and friends all in their employ is not enough for my friend.  Neither are curved shadows on the moon, tides, equatorial co-rotation, the fact that there is a horizon, etc.  He seems to need something more in-your-face.  Not words and complex ideas that can't be learned in a single youtube video, but something easier to understand.  As an environmental chemist by degree, I try and explain that the same system of science that brings us concepts like atmospheric diffraction, the ability to put objects into orbit, that explains how atmospheric carbon becomes wood etc, is the same system that allows us to design cars and copy machines and computers and such everyday, readily tangible things.  It's robust, it works every time, and when it doesn't, science changes course to reflect the evidence.  Nevermind that when taken metaphorically nearly all religious texts are completely consonant with evolution and big-bang, let's stick to things we can see and touch.

If anyone wants to become rich, change science forever, and be the most famous person in the history books from now on, all they have to do is publish a paper in peer-reviewed scientific literature that proves the earth is flat, and if it stands unrebutted, it's generally accepted as scientific fact.  Why post online when you could be making history?  I have several professors and a few friends who have done exactly this in the way of discovering "new" compounds and organisms. 

Anyway, let me get back to the point.  Since private space exploration is prohibitively expensive, I've decided to start an Indiegogo campaign to buy my friend a series of plane tickets whose routes are "impossible" on his map.  Namely, direct flights from Australia to South America, SA to Africa, and Africa to Australia.  These are readily available, if expensive, and since he probably believes the flights are fake and just posted to fool us, I thought that he needs to be the one to see that one can fly from Auckland to Buenos Aires in elevenish hours, etc.  I hope that anyone else who is also concerned about their friends or family to follow suit.  Maybe someone is rich enough to actually send a flat-earther to space?  This campaign is just for a series of plane tickets though.

Indiegogo link to follow soon, please consider contributing if this phenomenon makes you worried about others' mental health.

Just go with him to the equator on September 23rd and get him to watch the sun moving in a straight line all day long.   If that does not do anything then for sure being inside an aeroplane with a small window and a watch will do nothing.

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Omega

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2016, 01:03:09 AM »
First, unbrokenchain, welcome to the asylum.

Second:

I know you just want to get some travel money, but in case this is actually about proving the point, why not use actual flight times to prove the point? They are readily available online and it's way easier to check if they are correct than to crowdfund tickets and send someone on the plane.

Check out https://www.planespotters.net to get you started.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2016, 06:30:12 AM »
Right, there are plenty of ways to prove a round earth that make perfect sense to most of us, like how about touring a plant where they make these satellites that you can see with the naked eye in orbit at night?  I'm sure all those folks would love to know that they're building fake satellites...  apparently with this friend there is nothing that can be said or read, because if it disagrees with his paranoia then the plane routes listed must be faked by the FAA to continue the conspiracy...  actually getting from Auckland to Buenos Aires or Santiago directly may just be empirical enough for him.  Especially the Santiago route since Antarctica should be plainly visible on that flight.
I believe the psychology, at least for him, has something to do with knowing that he's wrong subconsciously, but is unable to admit it because then he would have to admit he fell for believing in the Easter Bunny.  No one has come back from the flat earth side because they'd have to tell the world they were previously an idiot! No one's got the nards to man up to that one yet.

Maybe if this works we'll try and get a big campaign going to get SpaceX or some other company to take Eric Dubay and the other kooks up to orbit, maybe even around the moon?  I'm sure some billionaire feels as strongly as I do.

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Crouton

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2016, 08:11:06 AM »
Right, there are plenty of ways to prove a round earth that make perfect sense to most of us, like how about touring a plant where they make these satellites that you can see with the naked eye in orbit at night?  I'm sure all those folks would love to know that they're building fake satellites...  apparently with this friend there is nothing that can be said or read, because if it disagrees with his paranoia then the plane routes listed must be faked by the FAA to continue the conspiracy...  actually getting from Auckland to Buenos Aires or Santiago directly may just be empirical enough for him.  Especially the Santiago route since Antarctica should be plainly visible on that flight.
I believe the psychology, at least for him, has something to do with knowing that he's wrong subconsciously, but is unable to admit it because then he would have to admit he fell for believing in the Easter Bunny.  No one has come back from the flat earth side because they'd have to tell the world they were previously an idiot! No one's got the nards to man up to that one yet.

Maybe if this works we'll try and get a big campaign going to get SpaceX or some other company to take Eric Dubay and the other kooks up to orbit, maybe even around the moon?  I'm sure some billionaire feels as strongly as I do.

You're arguing with a conspiracy theorist.  You can never win it.  They'll always fight you to a draw with more and more bizarre nonsense.  A flight won't help.  Touring a satellite factory, it would be really cool, not sure how effective it would be.

You can also get him a cheap open source gps receiver and show him how to program it.... I just realized that I assume everyone is capable of programming a gps receiver with minimal effort.

You'll never convince Eric Dubay because there's nothing to convince. He's well aware the Earth is round.  This is how he puts bread on the table.  He's like an atheist priest. 
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2016, 08:28:12 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed. 

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2016, 08:39:13 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.
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Slemon

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2016, 08:47:18 AM »
There are a couple of models out there this wouldn't work on. JRowe has a way of reducing some distances (though not all), Davis relies on a non-Euclidean map where, essentially, the distance between two points is not actually the straight-line distance. (I'm having a bit of fun working on developing a possible metric).

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2016, 09:31:00 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.

I wonder who writes the program? 

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Omega

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2016, 09:33:06 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.

I wonder who writes the program?

What program specifically?
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2016, 09:37:00 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.

I wonder who writes the program?

What program specifically?

The GPS program, Einstein.  ::)

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2016, 09:37:45 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.

I wonder who writes the program?

Oh dear, you're again talking about things you have no idea about.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2016, 09:40:37 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.

I wonder who writes the program?

Oh dear, you're again talking about things you have no idea about.

GPS does not use software?  Perhaps fairies fly back and forth between the satellites and receivers? 

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2016, 09:46:34 AM »
Your attention span is lower than a goldfish's

GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.
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Omega

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2016, 09:48:08 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.

I wonder who writes the program?

What program specifically?

The GPS program, Einstein.  ::)

The drivers? The I/O? The onboard software that does triangulations? The map software? The APIs? The database? Which one?
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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Slemon

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2016, 09:50:09 AM »
GPS does not use software?  Perhaps fairies fly back and forth between the satellites and receivers?
Hey, FEers are the ones that believe in fairies.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63260.0

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2016, 09:51:37 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.

I wonder who writes the program?

What program specifically?

The GPS program, Einstein.  ::)

The drivers? The I/O? The onboard software that does triangulations? The map software? The APIs? The database? Which one?

Stop trying to apply logic with Jroa. You just need to get on his niveau, it's pretty funny. We're currently spaming the flat earth forum, so every external visitor would leave instantly.

I assume, JROA is secretly a NASA round earth spy.
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Omega

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2016, 09:56:04 AM »
GPS chips are always pre-programmed.

Yes, without having a program on their microchip they would not work. That is correct.

I wonder who writes the program?

What program specifically?

The GPS program, Einstein.  ::)

The drivers? The I/O? The onboard software that does triangulations? The map software? The APIs? The database? Which one?

Stop trying to apply logic with Jroa. You just need to get on his niveau, it's pretty funny. We're currently spaming the flat earth forum, so every external visitor would leave instantly.

I assume, JROA is secretly a NASA round earth spy.

Nah I never saw him at the meetings.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2016, 10:01:58 AM »
GPS does not use software?  Perhaps fairies fly back and forth between the satellites and receivers?
Hey, FEers are the ones that believe in fairies.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63260.0

I am sorry that you lost that debate.  Better luck next time. 

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2016, 10:03:22 AM »
"lost"
"debate"
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Slemon

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2016, 10:04:15 AM »
GPS does not use software?  Perhaps fairies fly back and forth between the satellites and receivers?
Hey, FEers are the ones that believe in fairies.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63260.0

I am sorry that you lost that debate.  Better luck next time.

Just pointing out that you can't ridicule REers by accusing us of believing in fairies when that's something your side does.
No idea what debate you're talking about, I'm not even really involved in this thread. My most substantial post gave FEer answers to the OP. If that's losing, you're not doing wonders for your side.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Airplane Route Challenge
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2016, 10:04:34 AM »
"lost"
"debate"

You know all about those words.  Especially when they are right next to each other.