-----sorry----

Quote from: crutonius on August 28, 2016, 01:17:37 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on August 26, 2016, 11:18:13 AM

The only people in the US who might have anything comparable to your situation are some of the strict Mormon sects in Utah. They wouldn't be killed for leaving the faith, but they would be shunned and disowned and probably homeless. There are entire towns where everyone in power are members of that church, and there is no where for those who want to leave to go. Some of them escape with help from the outside, but in order to do this they often have to leave their children behind, which makes it even more difficult as you can imagine.

You're referring to FLDS I assume.  You're probably aware of this but I feel it should be said.  Comparing the FLDS church to mainstream Mormonism is like comparing the Westboro Baptist church mainstream Christianity.  The FLDS is so monstrous compared to the LDS church that its unfair to draw any conclusion about Mormonism from it. 

The vast majority of Mormons if they find out you're an Atheist will endlessly annoy you by bringing you rice crispy treats and volunteering to do yardwork for you.  I'm an atheist but if I had to choose a religion to take over the world I think I'd pick the Mormon church.

FalseProphet, move to the US.  Or any other half way sane country.  We have sausage mcMuffins, Disneyland and zero machete deaths for atheists.  Or if that's not possible then be safe.

I didn't compare them to mainstream Mormons. I specifically said "strict Mormon sects"... but that is beside the point. You absolutely can compare FLDS to mainstream Mormonism, just as you can compare WBC to any other sect of Christianity. They're all similar in ways and different in ways.

The Mormon church may not be my last choice to take over the world, but they're down there at the bottom, just above Scientology, Islam, and Catholicism (and probably a few that I don't know anything about). 

I used to live out West, I know there are nice normal Mormons, but their religion is just as wacky and dangerous as any other.  Any religion with power is dangerous.

Mormons are just sincerely deceived people; most just live their lives trying to do the right thing; which in Christainty is vain approach to salvation.
Most shills are the same way they are either deceived and are just useful idiots or paid which makes them wicked idiots, which have given up on salvation.
But the good thing is that the day of reconciliation is near, or at least nearer than when we first believed. \
Proverbs 9:6 Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.
7 He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.
8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

The Great Babel on the beast is Muhammad and The Islam.

Is that just an educated guess, or do you have anything to back it up?

What's with all this against Mormons? As crutonius pointed out, if it's not a weird sect, they are honest, good, caring people who try to live honest, good, caring lives. They really do what crutonius said if they find out you're an atheist. If you tell them you're not Mormon, yes, they'll "excommunicate" you, but in mainstream Mormonism, that just means taking your name off of the record books of "who is Mormon" and putting it on "who is not Mormon" in their records.

If they baptize me after I'm dead do I get to wear magic underwear in heaven?

If they baptize me after I'm dead do I get to wear magic underwear in heaven?

Yes, but it will be hand-me-down magic underwear.

What are you talking about? I have absolutely no idea...

You don't know about the magic underwear?

What are you talking about? I have absolutely no idea...

SCG is referring to two practices specific to the LDS church.

1.  Mormon underwear.  Kind of like the yarmulke to the Jews or the burka to Muslim women roughly, except it's underwear.

2.  Baptism for the dead.  Mormons baptize people who are dead, often from other religions.  By itself it's an odd practice and yes they do tend to offend people's living relatives with it when they posthumously declare them to be Mormons.  It does have an interesting side effect though.  The LDS church has probably the biggest database of genealogy in the world.  And it's free.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on August 28, 2016, 09:31:10 AM

Quote from: crutonius on August 28, 2016, 01:17:37 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on August 26, 2016, 11:18:13 AM

The only people in the US who might have anything comparable to your situation are some of the strict Mormon sects in Utah. They wouldn't be killed for leaving the faith, but they would be shunned and disowned and probably homeless. There are entire towns where everyone in power are members of that church, and there is no where for those who want to leave to go. Some of them escape with help from the outside, but in order to do this they often have to leave their children behind, which makes it even more difficult as you can imagine.

You're referring to FLDS I assume.  You're probably aware of this but I feel it should be said.  Comparing the FLDS church to mainstream Mormonism is like comparing the Westboro Baptist church mainstream Christianity.  The FLDS is so monstrous compared to the LDS church that its unfair to draw any conclusion about Mormonism from it. 

The vast majority of Mormons if they find out you're an Atheist will endlessly annoy you by bringing you rice crispy treats and volunteering to do yardwork for you.  I'm an atheist but if I had to choose a religion to take over the world I think I'd pick the Mormon church.

FalseProphet, move to the US.  Or any other half way sane country.  We have sausage mcMuffins, Disneyland and zero machete deaths for atheists.  Or if that's not possible then be safe.

I didn't compare them to mainstream Mormons. I specifically said "strict Mormon sects"... but that is beside the point. You absolutely can compare FLDS to mainstream Mormonism, just as you can compare WBC to any other sect of Christianity. They're all similar in ways and different in ways.

The Mormon church may not be my last choice to take over the world, but they're down there at the bottom, just above Scientology, Islam, and Catholicism (and probably a few that I don't know anything about). 

I used to live out West, I know there are nice normal Mormons, but their religion is just as wacky and dangerous as any other.  Any religion with power is dangerous.

Mormons are just sincerely deceived people; most just live their lives trying to do the right thing; which in Christainty is vain approach to salvation.
Most shills are the same way they are either deceived and are just useful idiots or paid which makes them wicked idiots, which have given up on salvation.
But the good thing is that the day of reconciliation is near, or at least nearer than when we first believed.

Yeah, Mormons say the same thing about people like you.  Just with different scriptural references.  As do the Muslims.  And pretty much every other religion in the world.

crutonius are you Mormon?

crutonius are you Mormon?

No, I'm a humanist. My mother is Mormon though as is her entire side of the family. My father's agnostic but he has a fondness for islam. And for some reason they enrolled me in a born again Christian school for most of primary education. So I have some experience being exposed to different world views. A kind of tolerance for people that think differently than me is a crucial skill, one that I fail at sometimes though.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on October 02, 2016, 04:02:35 PM

crutonius are you Mormon?

No, I'm a humanist. My mother is Mormon though as is her entire side of the family. My father's agnostic but he has a fondness for islam. And for some reason they enrolled me in a born again Christian school for most of primary education. So I have some experience being exposed to different world views. A kind of tolerance for people that think differently than me is a crucial skill, one that I fail at sometimes though.

I was raised hellfire and brimstone Baptist! I am tolerant of others views, but I don't think that means we can't poke fun at silly religious beliefs.  In recent years tolerance has morphed into the notion that we shouldn't hurt someone's religious sentiments, even when they are harmful.

Quote from: crutonius on October 02, 2016, 06:03:30 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on October 02, 2016, 04:02:35 PM

crutonius are you Mormon?

No, I'm a humanist. My mother is Mormon though as is her entire side of the family. My father's agnostic but he has a fondness for islam. And for some reason they enrolled me in a born again Christian school for most of primary education. So I have some experience being exposed to different world views. A kind of tolerance for people that think differently than me is a crucial skill, one that I fail at sometimes though.

I was raised hellfire and brimstone Baptist! I am tolerant of others views, but I don't think that means we can't poke fun at silly religious beliefs.  In recent years tolerance has morphed into the notion that we shouldn't hurt someone's religious sentiments, even when they are harmful.

Oh, I 100% agree.  An informed criticism of any ideology is critical to making a better society.  This current state of discourse where any criticism of Islam tends to get dismissed as "islamaphobia" is really screwing over everyone, including muslims.

All I'm trying to say about the Mormon thing is that mainstream Mormonism is guilty of about the same level of fuckery as mainstream Catholicism.

I was actually thinking of the "islamaphobe" thing when I wrote that! All those right on liberal lefties calling Ayaan Hirsi Ali an islamaphobe for speaking against FGM makes me want to puke.

I think Catholicism has a lot more to answer for than Mormonism. At least the Mormons never burned anyone at the stake (that I'm aware of), and mainstream Mormonism has disavowed the FLDS, which is a good thing. Mormons have some funny beliefs, and some harmful ones, but they've never done as much damage to the world as Catholicism has.  I hope they never do, but any religion has the potential if it becomes powerful.

I was actually thinking of the "islamaphobe" thing when I wrote that! All those right on liberal lefties calling Ayaan Hirsi Ali an islamaphobe for speaking against FGM makes me want to puke.

This should have nothing to do with left/right, and BTW although the practice is prevalent in many Muslim countries, it is not limited to those.
I presume those voices chiding her are mainly male?

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on October 03, 2016, 10:08:03 AM

I was actually thinking of the "islamaphobe" thing when I wrote that! All those right on liberal lefties calling Ayaan Hirsi Ali an islamaphobe for speaking against FGM makes me want to puke.

This should have nothing to do with left/right, and BTW although the practice is prevalent in many Muslim countries, it is not limited to those.
I presume those voices chiding her are mainly male?

It shouldn't have, but it does. The "progressives" have decided that being critical of Islam, even when the person being critical is ex-Muslim, is a type of islamaphobia. The voices chiding her are male and female. It has nothing to do with the practice of FGM, they do not care who is doing it, and the practice not being limited to Muslim countries is entirely irrelevant. They have decided that ex-Muslims who are critical of their own culture have become Westernized, and this has somehow tainted their own view of their own experiences.

For example:



Maryam Namazie is ex-Muslim and gives talks regularly.  This particular talk is at Goldsmiths, and some members of ISOC (Islamic Society) tried to intimidate her and shut her talk down. SAFE SPACE SAFE SPACE...  Anyway, ISOC obviously has the right to protest speakers they don't like, but I don't think they should have the right to physically intimidate them or shut down their talks. Bizarrely, the Feminist Society stood with ISOC, as did other lefty groups.

For more examples you can google "regressive left" and read some of Maajid Nawaz's articles.

I am not at all clear on what the "Great Babel" is.  Babel is place name mentioned twice in Genesis, where mankind disobeyed God's command to spread out and fill the earth and was forcibly dispersed by having their languages diversified.  The Anti-Christ identified in Revelation chapter 13 is clearly Roman or the Roman Empire collectively; it is identifed with the number 666 ... unlike the Greek or Hebrew system, only some of the Latin alphabet was used as numbers: I + V + X + L + C + D = 666 (the letter M, according to Montanus, was not used as a number until medieval times).

Mohammed may have been marginally literate, at least in any language other than Arabic, and clearly heard a good deal of Christian (and maybe Jewish) preaching and much non-canonical Jewish and Christian folklore, even some heretical stories, about biblical characters, and wove this (with either variations or errors in memory - such as confusing Haman with Pharoah) in his scraps which were subsequently collected as the Koran.  The Koran itself had some of the sort of textual variants as afflicts the New Testament manuscripts ... until some centuries after Mohammed's death when the Califf Omar ordered one and only one master text established and all other manuscripts destroyed (the interior of dome of the Al-Asqa Mosque in Jerusalem still has, from about the 9th century, some quotations from vanished Koran manuscripts).  If you regard the Hebrew Old Testament (and maybe the Greek New Testament) as reliable, then you would regard the Koran as very distorted.

However, Revelations describes a teaching which is a false scripture and a false synagogue and this might be a prediction of Islam.