A plane flying north should go sideways?

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A plane flying north should go sideways?
« on: August 10, 2016, 08:05:42 AM »
I saw this theory on a video, not sure if its been discussed...

A plane takimg off from the equator is travelling at 1000mph westwards just to stay in the same place above the earth.
As a plane travels exactly north it should be experiencing sideways movement because the earth underneath is spinning slower and slower as the plane travels north?

The plane is still travelling 1000mph to the east but the earth underneath at 40 degrees longitude would only be spinning at about 500mph?
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markjo

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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2016, 08:22:15 AM »
From another, more relevant forum asking about the Coriolis effect and air navigation:
The effect is very slight over short distances and even slighter at low speeds.  So even though the correction is necessary in principle, it tends to get lost in all of the other corrections we make as pilots.  In other words, the effect is so small that it gets lost in the background noise of everything else going on.  The most important influence of Coriolis on pilots is the effect it has on wind direction.  By the time you account for winds, changing winds, varying tracks due to ATC clearances, minor errors and corrections made by the flight crew, etc., Coriolis doesn’t even rank a mention as something to be corrected for — even on long-range flights.
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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2016, 08:45:37 AM »
I saw this theory on a video, not sure if its been discussed...

A plane takimg off from the equator is travelling at 1000mph westwards just to stay in the same place above the earth.
As a plane travels exactly north it should be experiencing sideways movement because the earth underneath is spinning slower and slower as the plane travels north?

The plane is still travelling 1000mph to the east but the earth underneath at 40 degrees longitude would only be spinning at about 500mph?

I just do not believe these are serious questions

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Nightsky

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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2016, 10:26:33 AM »
I saw this theory on a video, not sure if its been discussed...

A plane takimg off from the equator is travelling at 1000mph westwards just to stay in the same place above the earth.
As a plane travels exactly north it should be experiencing sideways movement because the earth underneath is spinning slower and slower as the plane travels north?

The plane is still travelling 1000mph to the east but the earth underneath at 40 degrees longitude would only be spinning at about 500mph?


Sorry a plane flying on a motherly heading will do exactly that....end of thread...its like driving a car up the 101 togo North to Canada or down the 101 to go to California....what the problem.
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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2016, 11:45:58 AM »
I saw this theory on a video, not sure if its been discussed...

A plane takimg off from the equator is travelling at 1000mph westwards just to stay in the same place above the earth.
As a plane travels exactly north it should be experiencing sideways movement because the earth underneath is spinning slower and slower as the plane travels north?

The plane is still travelling 1000mph to the east but the earth underneath at 40 degrees longitude would only be spinning at about 500mph?


Sorry a plane flying on a motherly heading will do exactly that....end of thread...its like driving a car up the 101 togo North to Canada or down the 101 to go to California....what the problem.
You might want to fix that. The baby airplanes would just confuse people.
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rabinoz

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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2016, 06:29:09 PM »
I saw this theory on a video, not sure if its been discussed...

A plane takimg off from the equator is travelling at 1000mph westwards just to stay in the same place above the earth.
A plane is flying in the air. The air is moving with the surface of the earth, apart for wind that can be in any direction and is far less than 1000 mph.

So a plane travelling westwards at 1,000 mph airspeed ps travelling at close to 1,000 mph ground speed.

Quote from: Ex-Globe
As a plane travels exactly north it should be experiencing sideways movement because the earth underneath is spinning slower and slower as the plane travels north?

The plane is still travelling 1000mph to the east but the earth underneath at 40 degrees longitude would only be spinning at about 500mph?
Slight correction: at 60 degrees latitude would only be spinning at about 500mph, but no matter.

That is true, and is just an expression of the Coriolis effect seen in winds blowing north or south, but it is a very small effect.
To get from equator to latitude 60°N means travelling about 4,140 miles north, so it is a very gradual change.

The plane is still travelling relative to the air which is moving at the speed of the surface of the earth (apart from winds) and the pilot will be setting his course as due north, so will always be heading towards the north pole.

This change in speed of the air from the equator to the poles is the cause of many of the well-documented wind systems.

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Woody

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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2016, 06:39:27 PM »
I think one very large problem FE's have is looking at things relative to each other.

For some reason it is hard for them to comprehend everything is already moving. 

The plane is only changing its velocity in relation to the Earth. 

If someone who believes the Earth is flat can accept the above I think it will help them start understanding other things they question.

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Nightsky

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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2016, 12:44:17 AM »
I saw this theory on a video, not sure if its been discussed...

A plane takimg off from the equator is travelling at 1000mph westwards just to stay in the same place above the earth.
As a plane travels exactly north it should be experiencing sideways movement because the earth underneath is spinning slower and slower as the plane travels north?

The plane is still travelling 1000mph to the east but the earth underneath at 40 degrees longitude would only be spinning at about 500mph?



This is a classic case of a poster not understanding the first thing about basic physics.

Ok if you are in a car and it's going along at a steady 60 mph.....what speed are you going at?
You can call me Gwyneth
I said that
Oh for the love of- Logical formulation:
FET is wrong, unsupported by evidence, and most models are refuted on multiple fronts; those that aren't tend not to make enough predictions to be realistically falsifiable
Jane said these

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deadsirius

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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2016, 08:49:58 AM »
I saw this theory on a video, not sure if its been discussed...

A plane takimg off from the equator is travelling at 1000mph westwards just to stay in the same place above the earth.
As a plane travels exactly north it should be experiencing sideways movement because the earth underneath is spinning slower and slower as the plane travels north?

The plane is still travelling 1000mph to the east but the earth underneath at 40 degrees longitude would only be spinning at about 500mph?



This is a classic case of a poster not understanding the first thing about basic physics.

Ok if you are in a car and it's going along at a steady 60 mph.....what speed are you going at?

Even more to the point--say you are in a car doing 60 mph.  Everyone can (I hope) agree that your body is also going 60 mph (relative to the ground).  No controversy there.

Say that in this car you are holding a small model airplane.  Still I think we can agree this airplane is also moving 60 mph (again relative to the ground).  If you black out the windows and ignore the outside world, you might say the plane is not moving at all--and you'd be right, relative to the closed system of the inside of the car.  In much the same way, we can say that a real airplane sitting idle on a runway is not moving, relative to the surface of the earth--but just like the model plane can be moving 60 mph compared to the ground but behave as if it's not moving when you just look at the inside of the car, the real plane can be moving through space even though it looks still from our earthbound perspective.

Anyway, back in the car:  toss the plane straight up (not too high).  The plane falls straight back into your hand.  It maintained its forward position relative to the car, and it did not have to suddenly accelerate and "fly forward" at 60 mph to maintain that position.  It did so because like everything else in the car it was already moving that speed and direction.  This is very analogous to the real plane--in no way does it have to fly 1000 mph in order to stay in the SAME PLACE over the surface of the earth--and frankly I can't see anyone seriously entertaining such a paradoxical notion.  What would that even look like--a 747 floating stationary over our heads with jet engines roaring?

I guess if we're talking about the earth's rotation you could modify the analogy and mention that if a car is driving 60 mph in a circle, the model plane would indeed tend to fly out towards the side of the car facing away from the center of the circle.  (Actually i believe it would travel tangentially to the circle but the continued turning of the car would make it appear to fly towards the side.)  However in this case as well the effect is mitigated by the size of the circle--if you're turning tight donuts it would be very noticeable but if you are driving around a circle hundreds of miles wide you probably would detect nothing and the plane would appear to once again go straight up and down if tossed upward.

By the way, this might be a good time to mention that if you are driving around a large enough circle, the road will appear to be straight for as far as you can see in either direction.  ...why does that sound familiar...
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Globetrotter

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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2016, 11:57:52 AM »
Everyone can check this, sitting in front of your computer: just check the travel institutions, i.e. Expedia:
When you buy a flying ticket for a long-distance East - West, West - East fly (i.e. Chicago - Warsaw, comparing Warsaw - Chicago), there is always a difference in traveling time, in this case about one hour. Does it prove non - rotating Flat - Earth concept??? Or it's just unrelevant?

P.S.
Of course, it happens also with short distances, only it's more visible with longer ones.
Also, IMO it does not prove if The Earth is flat or globe, but instead it proves if it revolves or not. However, as far as the concept of not-moving-earth is an integral part of the flat-earth concept: when it denies the integral part, it denies entire concept.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 03:58:51 AM by Globetrotter »
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Re: A plane flying north should go sideways?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2016, 02:31:10 PM »
Everyone can check this, sitting in front of your computer: just check the travel institutions, i.e. Expedia:
When you buy a flying ticket for a long-distance East - West, West - East fly (i.e. Chicago - Warsaw, comparing Warsaw - Chicago), there is always a difference in traveling time, in this case about one hour. Does it prove non - rotating Flat - Earth concept??? Or it's just unrelevant?

P.S.
Of course, it happens also with short distances, only it's more visible with longer ones.
Also, IMO it does not prove if The Earth is flat or globe, but instead it proves if it revolves or not. However, as far as the concept of not-moving-earth is an integral part of the flat-earth concept: when it denies the integral part, it denies entire concept.

The differences are usually due to flights being able to make use of jet streams in one direction but not in the other.

Links:
http://blog.privatefly.com/how-does-the-jet-stream-affect-my-flight-time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_stream#Aviation