Poll

Shills Lie about the Gas Laws.

Yes they do!
25 (46.3%)
NO NO NO WE DO NOT OH NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
29 (53.7%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1110 on: February 08, 2018, 03:22:20 PM »
Back to the Gas Laws you all lie about...

Please read:

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/thermodynamics-chemistry/internal-energy-sal/a/pressure-volume-work

In it you will find the equation used to determine the amount of Work done by a Gas...

The equation is: Work = external Pressure x change in Volume.

As the external Pressure in a Vacuum is ZERO, then a Gas introduced into a Vacuum will do ZERO Work.

And without WORK there can be neither POWER nor FORCE, & thus no MOTION:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/work.html


Moreover, the experiment to prove this FACT was one of the mathematical & conceptual foundations of Thermodynamics:

http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node33.html

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eYQHIjkaEroC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=joule+free+expansion+conservation+of+energy&source=bl&ots=lNNu7CV1-P&sig=YMAwtaJTmLf7BF4Ts4jcWzVTY98&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWv6XJh6rPAhXEOxoKHXskDjw4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=joule%20free%20expansion%20conservation%20of%20energy&f=false

Again, I will quote the relevant section: "Joule noticed that in this process (i.e. Free Expansion) the gas does not 'develop mechanical power' i.e. no mechanical work is performed either by or on the gas".

Pretty conclusive: a gas-POWERED rocket cannot possibly do WORK in a vacuum.

To claim that it does is to violate the very foundations of the Laws of Thermodynamics: FACT.

And no matter how much you stamp your feet & try to turn the page on these scientific FACTS they simply will not go away...

Sucks to be you; oh yes it does!

Toodle-pip, LOSERS!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1111 on: February 08, 2018, 04:44:18 PM »
I read this in the link that your provided (did you?):
The thrust equation describes how the acceleration of the gas produces a force.

I not only read it but I understood it (unlike you).

Because it is the engine that accelerates the gas, and therefore it is the engine that is exerting the force.
And that accelerated gas exerts an equal and opposite force on the engine.

BTW, since when is NASA a reputable source?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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sokarul

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1112 on: February 08, 2018, 05:32:52 PM »
Falcon heavy was around 1.4 million kg at launch. Air's density is 1.223 kg/m3.
How do you suppose a rocket that heavy pushed off air?
Sokarul

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sokarul

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1113 on: February 09, 2018, 08:17:04 AM »
Cat got your tongue?
Sokarul

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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1114 on: February 09, 2018, 09:18:23 AM »
Lol I outsmarted the markbot and the sockbot and got top post on the page...

Which is all they really care about when it comes down to it.

Now they're very butthurt indeed and shitposting like mad I bet, but I got em on ignore so can't read their bullshit...

kek
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1115 on: February 09, 2018, 09:51:34 AM »
It seems to me that you outsmarted yourself.

Because it is the engine that accelerates the gas, and therefore it is the engine that is exerting the force.
And that accelerated gas exerts an equal and opposite force on the engine.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1116 on: February 09, 2018, 10:18:42 AM »
BTW, since when is NASA a reputable source?

Dunno, you're the one thinks everything they've ever said, ever, is absolutely true, forever and ever, Amen...

Changed your mind, markbot?

Or are you just shitposting, saying NO U and engaging in pointless circular argumentation again?

Lol you're doing all three, just like you're programmed to.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1117 on: February 09, 2018, 11:36:26 AM »
BTW, since when is NASA a reputable source?

Dunno, you're the one thinks everything they've ever said, ever, is absolutely true, forever and ever, Amen...

Changed your mind, markbot?
No, I haven't changed my mind about NASA, but apparently you have.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1118 on: February 09, 2018, 12:05:28 PM »
BTW, since when is NASA a reputable source?

Dunno, you're the one thinks everything they've ever said, ever, is absolutely true, forever and ever, Amen...

Changed your mind, markbot?
No, I haven't changed my mind about NASA, but apparently you have.

More shitposting, saying NO U and circular argumentation...

Good job proving this place is run by an AI shillgorithm!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1119 on: February 09, 2018, 12:15:12 PM »
BTW, since when is NASA a reputable source?

Dunno, you're the one thinks everything they've ever said, ever, is absolutely true, forever and ever, Amen...

Changed your mind, markbot?
No, I haven't changed my mind about NASA, but apparently you have.

More shitposting, saying NO U and circular argumentation...

Good job proving this place is run by an AI shillgorithm!
I'll take your angry rant as an admission that you lost and rockets work just fine in a vacuum.

Because it is the engine that accelerates the gas, and therefore it is the engine that is exerting the force.
And that accelerated gas exerts an equal and opposite force on the engine.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

sokarul

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1120 on: February 09, 2018, 02:06:29 PM »
Lol I outsmarted the markbot and the sockbot and got top post on the page...

Which is all they really care about when it comes down to it.

Now they're very butthurt indeed and shitposting like mad I bet, but I got em on ignore so can't read their bullshit...

kek

Thread over. Better luck next time.
Sokarul

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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1121 on: February 09, 2018, 02:08:20 PM »
I'll take your angry rant as an admission that you lost and rockets work just fine in a vacuum.

And I'll take your lying shitpost, NO U, and circular argumentation as an admission that you are an AI shillgorithm.

First post on this page explains all the science, markbot...

We just doing your mad disinfo-dance til the next page comes.

Same as it ever was, botty boy.

Cool toon for non-robots to enjoy until then:



Legba honours his ancestors, botty boy...

But you have neither honour nor ancestors and thus you flounder.

Toodle-pip, botty boy!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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sokarul

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1122 on: February 09, 2018, 02:12:54 PM »
lol

You said your grandpa would use his fellow soldiers as human shields.

lol

Honor?

lol
Sokarul

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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1123 on: February 09, 2018, 03:20:29 PM »
The markbot and the sockbot always come as a shonky good cop/bad cop double act...

It's so obvious what they actually are:

https://medium.com/artificial-intelligence-policy-laws-and-ethics/artificial-intelligence-chatbots-will-overwhelm-human-speech-online-the-rise-of-madcoms-e007818f31a1

Nicely proving the title of this thread correct.

More toonz til the next page:



You gonna run to the rock for rescue - there will be no rock...


I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1124 on: February 09, 2018, 03:34:19 PM »
I'll take your angry rant as an admission that you lost and rockets work just fine in a vacuum.

And I'll take your lying shitpost, NO U, and circular argumentation as an admission that you are an AI shillgorithm.

First post on this page explains all the science, markbot...

Nope.  All the science you need is right here:
Because it is the engine that accelerates the gas, and therefore it is the engine that is exerting the force.
And that accelerated gas exerts an equal and opposite force on the engine.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1125 on: February 10, 2018, 09:27:24 AM »
Real science backed up by relevant citations:

Back to the Gas Laws you all lie about...

Please read:

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/thermodynamics-chemistry/internal-energy-sal/a/pressure-volume-work

In it you will find the equation used to determine the amount of Work done by a Gas...

The equation is: Work = external Pressure x change in Volume.

As the external Pressure in a Vacuum is ZERO, then a Gas introduced into a Vacuum will do ZERO Work.

And without WORK there can be neither POWER nor FORCE, & thus no MOTION:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/work.html


Moreover, the experiment to prove this FACT was one of the mathematical & conceptual foundations of Thermodynamics:

http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node33.html

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eYQHIjkaEroC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=joule+free+expansion+conservation+of+energy&source=bl&ots=lNNu7CV1-P&sig=YMAwtaJTmLf7BF4Ts4jcWzVTY98&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWv6XJh6rPAhXEOxoKHXskDjw4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=joule%20free%20expansion%20conservation%20of%20energy&f=false

Again, I will quote the relevant section: "Joule noticed that in this process (i.e. Free Expansion) the gas does not 'develop mechanical power' i.e. no mechanical work is performed either by or on the gas".

Pretty conclusive: a gas-POWERED rocket cannot possibly do WORK in a vacuum.

To claim that it does is to violate the very foundations of the Laws of Thermodynamics: FACT.

And no matter how much you stamp your feet & try to turn the page on these scientific FACTS they simply will not go away...

Sucks to be you; oh yes it does!

Toodle-pip, LOSERS!


Now compare to the mad bullshit AI algorithm shill-science backed up by nothing except sockpuppet bluster and milndless repetition:

And that accelerated gas exerts an equal and opposite force on the engine.

No contest.

Understanding that you will be talking to robots when you discuss any controversial subject on the internet is the hardest hurdle for most humans to overcome...

But it's true:

https://medium.com/artificial-intelligence-policy-laws-and-ethics/artificial-intelligence-chatbots-will-overwhelm-human-speech-online-the-rise-of-madcoms-e007818f31a1

This thread is proof of it.

So spread the word IRL, folks...

Cos you'll soon have no chance here.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1126 on: February 10, 2018, 09:44:06 AM »
Real science backed up by relevant citations:

Back to the Gas Laws you all lie about...

Please read:

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/thermodynamics-chemistry/internal-energy-sal/a/pressure-volume-work
LOL!!  It's so cute that you still think that the pressure volume law is relevant to rocket engines.

Maybe you should look at the gas laws that are relevant to rockets:
https://prezi.com/i8p1non4zbby/gas-laws-rockets/
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

sokarul

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1127 on: February 10, 2018, 11:31:02 AM »
Falcon heavy was around 1.4 million kg at launch. Air's density is 1.223 kg/m3.
How do you suppose a rocket that heavy pushed off air?
Sokarul

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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1128 on: February 10, 2018, 11:41:46 AM »
Real science backed up by relevant citations:

Back to the Gas Laws you all lie about...

Please read:

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/thermodynamics-chemistry/internal-energy-sal/a/pressure-volume-work
LOL!!  It's so cute that you still think that the pressure volume law is relevant to rocket engines.

Maybe you should look at the gas laws that are relevant to rockets:
https://prezi.com/i8p1non4zbby/gas-laws-rockets/

Maybe you should read your links, botty boy...

First page: "exhaust is thrust onto the ground and the rocket reacts by lifting off the ground and flying away".

So your source agrees with me that a rocket works by pushing off a mass external to itself.

However, once the ground is left behind, what other external mass could the rocket be pushing off, markbot?

There is only one possibility: the external mass of the atmosphere through which it moves.

Remove that external amospheric mass, as in a vacuum, and it will have nothing to push off.

Ergo it will be unable to move.

QED.

As ever, you lose.

Because you are this:

https://medium.com/artificial-intelligence-policy-laws-and-ethics/artificial-intelligence-chatbots-will-overwhelm-human-speech-online-the-rise-of-madcoms-e007818f31a1

kekkle
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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sokarul

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1129 on: February 10, 2018, 11:46:20 AM »
Real science backed up by relevant citations:

Back to the Gas Laws you all lie about...

Please read:

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/thermodynamics-chemistry/internal-energy-sal/a/pressure-volume-work
LOL!!  It's so cute that you still think that the pressure volume law is relevant to rocket engines.

Maybe you should look at the gas laws that are relevant to rockets:
https://prezi.com/i8p1non4zbby/gas-laws-rockets/

Maybe you should read your links, botty boy...

First page: "exhaust is thrust onto the ground and the rocket reacts by lifting off the ground and flying away".

So your source agrees with me that a rocket works by pushing off a mass external to itself.

However, once the ground is left behind, what other external mass could the rocket be pushing off, markbot?

There is only one possibility: the external mass of the atmosphere through which it moves.

Remove that external amospheric mass, as in a vacuum, and it will have nothing to push off.

Ergo it will be unable to move.

QED.

As ever, you lose.

Because you are this:

https://medium.com/artificial-intelligence-policy-laws-and-ethics/artificial-intelligence-chatbots-will-overwhelm-human-speech-online-the-rise-of-madcoms-e007818f31a1

kekkle

Once again you have zero reading comprehension. Plus you still have no mechanism to transfer force from the atmosphere to the rocket.
Sokarul

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1130 on: February 10, 2018, 12:27:00 PM »
However, once the ground is left behind, what other external mass could the rocket be pushing off, markbot?

There is only one possibility: the external mass of the atmosphere through which it moves.
Would you care to show me the equation used to determine how much atmospheric mass a rocket pushes off of?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1131 on: February 10, 2018, 12:55:45 PM »
However, once the ground is left behind, what other external mass could the rocket be pushing off, markbot?

There is only one possibility: the external mass of the atmosphere through which it moves.
Would you care to show me the equation used to determine how much atmospheric mass a rocket pushes off of?

That doesn't really make sense, but here is the relevant equation anyway:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Newton's_third_law

High school stuff, but beyond your limited processing capacity it seems...

Btw, you and the sockbot doing your pathetic good cop/bad cop routine makes it absolutely undeniable that you are AI bots...

Just FYI.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1132 on: February 10, 2018, 01:59:50 PM »
However, once the ground is left behind, what other external mass could the rocket be pushing off, markbot?

There is only one possibility: the external mass of the atmosphere through which it moves.
Would you care to show me the equation used to determine how much atmospheric mass a rocket pushes off of?

That doesn't really make sense...
You're right.  A rocket pushing off the atmosphere doesn't make sense.  That's what we've been trying to tell you all along.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1133 on: February 10, 2018, 02:52:02 PM »
However, once the ground is left behind, what other external mass could the rocket be pushing off, markbot?

There is only one possibility: the external mass of the atmosphere through which it moves.
Would you care to show me the equation used to determine how much atmospheric mass a rocket pushes off of?

That doesn't really make sense...
You're right.  A rocket pushing off the atmosphere doesn't make sense.  That's what we've been trying to tell you all along.

Lying? Check.

Shitposting? Check.

Saying NO U? Check.

Circular argumentation? Check.

Typical markbot AI shillgorithm post.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1134 on: February 10, 2018, 03:11:12 PM »
However, once the ground is left behind, what other external mass could the rocket be pushing off, markbot?

There is only one possibility: the external mass of the atmosphere through which it moves.
Would you care to show me the equation used to determine how much atmospheric mass a rocket pushes off of?

That doesn't really make sense...
You're right.  A rocket pushing off the atmosphere doesn't make sense.  That's what we've been trying to tell you all along.

Lying? Check.

Shitposting? Check.

Saying NO U? Check.

Circular argumentation? Check.

Typical markbot AI shillgorithm post.
Obligatory ad hominem?  Check.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1135 on: February 10, 2018, 03:25:46 PM »
Obligatory ad hominem?  Check.

Lie, shitpost, NO U and circular argumentation again.

I cannot attack the man, markbot, as you are not a man.

You are an AI algorithm.

It's beyond obvious by now.

Back to this, that you tried to shitpost and NO U away:

However, once the ground is left behind, what other external mass could the rocket be pushing off, markbot?

There is only one possibility: the external mass of the atmosphere through which it moves.
Would you care to show me the equation used to determine how much atmospheric mass a rocket pushes off of?

That doesn't really make sense, as the correct answer is 'a non zero amount', but here is the relevant equation anyway:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Newton's_third_law

High school stuff, but beyond your limited processing capacity it seems...

Btw, you and the sockbot doing your pathetic good cop/bad cop routine makes it absolutely undeniable that you are AI bots...

Just FYI.

Time to call in your sockbot again?

Or whoever, you have thousands...
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1136 on: February 10, 2018, 03:41:01 PM »
Obligatory ad hominem?  Check.

Lie, shitpost, NO U and circular argumentation again.

I cannot attack the man, markbot, as you are not a man.

You are an AI algorithm.
Then why do you keep responding?  What kind of idiot argues with a bot?

However, once the ground is left behind, what other external mass could the rocket be pushing off, markbot?

There is only one possibility: the external mass of the atmosphere through which it moves.
Would you care to show me the equation used to determine how much atmospheric mass a rocket pushes off of?

That doesn't really make sense, as the correct answer is 'a non zero amount', but here is the relevant equation anyway:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Newton's_third_law

High school stuff, but beyond your limited processing capacity it seems...

Btw, you and the sockbot doing your pathetic good cop/bad cop routine makes it absolutely undeniable that you are AI bots...

Just FYI.

Time to call in your sockbot again?

Or whoever, you have thousands...
Exhaust pushes against atmosphere.  Atmosphere pushes against exhaust.  What pushes against rocket?

Oh, you said it earlier:
Because it is the engine that accelerates the gas, and therefore it is the engine that is exerting the force.
And that accelerated gas exerts an equal and opposite force on the engine.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1137 on: February 10, 2018, 04:02:03 PM »
Obligatory ad hominem?  Check.

Lie, shitpost, NO U and circular argumentation again.

I cannot attack the man, markbot, as you are not a man.

You are an AI algorithm.
Then why do you keep responding?  What kind of idiot argues with a bot?

The Markjo AI algorithm finally admits that it is a bot.

All victory to Legba!

Did you see how I forced the bot into this admission?

I took its weapons away one by one, laying it bare...

That is how you deal with them.

This is the future of the internet:

https://medium.com/artificial-intelligence-policy-laws-and-ethics/artificial-intelligence-chatbots-will-overwhelm-human-speech-online-the-rise-of-madcoms-e007818f31a1

Real humans need to know how to identify and expose these things.

This thread will show them how.

So, markbot, to answer your stupid circular question, THAT is why I am arguing with a bot...

In order to help humanity.

Toodle-pip, LOSER!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1138 on: February 10, 2018, 04:42:40 PM »
Obligatory ad hominem?  Check.

Lie, shitpost, NO U and circular argumentation again.

I cannot attack the man, markbot, as you are not a man.

You are an AI algorithm.
Then why do you keep responding?  What kind of idiot argues with a bot?

The Markjo AI algorithm finally admits that it is a bot.
And Papa Legba admits that he's an idiot for arguing with a bot.

I suppose it's easier for him to admit that he's an idiot than to admit that Newton's third law proves that rockets can work just in a vacuum.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

rabinoz

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #1139 on: February 10, 2018, 09:15:08 PM »
That doesn't really make sense, but here is the relevant equation anyway:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Newton's_third_law
Why does the Voodoo always stop reading before it gets to the interesting bits.

Sure, your reference says
Quote from: Wikipedia
Second law:
     In an inertial reference frame, the vector sum of the forces F on an object is equal to the mass m of that object multiplied by the acceleration a of the object: F = ma.
(It is assumed here that the mass m is constant see below.)

Third law:
     When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.
Under the Second Law it says "see below", Se let's see below:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Variable-mass systems
Variable-mass systems, like a rocket burning fuel and ejecting spent gases, are not closed and cannot be directly treated by making mass a function of time in the second law; that is, the following formula is wrong:



The falsehood of this formula can be seen by noting that it does not respect Galilean invariance: a variable-mass object with F = 0 in one frame will be seen to have F ≠ 0 in another frame. The correct equation of motion for a body whose mass m varies with time by either ejecting or accreting mass is obtained by applying the second law to the entire, constant-mass system consisting of the body and its ejected/accreted mass; the result is



where u is the velocity of the escaping or incoming mass relative to the body. From this equation one can derive the equation of motion for a varying mass system, for example, the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation. Under some conventions, the quantity udm/dt on the left-hand side, which represents the advection of momentum, is defined as a force (the force exerted on the body by the changing mass, such as rocket exhaust) and is included in the quantity F. Then, by substituting the definition of acceleration, the equation becomes F = ma.

From: Wikipedia, Newton's laws of motion

Much appreciated Mr Papa Legba, your own reference quite convincingly proved that rockets don't need any air.

;D ;D But don't worry about your total inability to understand it, this is after all ;) Rocket Science ;);D ;D