Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 02:36:01 AM

Quote from: sobchak on January 26, 2019, 01:56:57 AM

I’m still waiting to understand how gases behave in a sealed container. Why is shape important?  How is stacking created and removed through changes in pressure?  Why is symmetry important?   

I think these are fundamental understandings I would want to have before I tried to do any experiments in a sealed container to investigate various conceptual frameworks. 

Bring me there and I will see what I can do, okay?

I don't think you're interested in the slightest.

As you wish.  I guess I’m starting to think the same of you.

Ok then we'll leave it at that. Enjoy yourself in whatever you choose to do.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:52:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 02:36:38 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:24:04 AM

Ask him to finish the house diagram

Finish it as in what?

You need an object on each floor of the house and house external atmosphere goes through the home structure.

Pay attention to the drawing. Are you incapable of understanding the drawing?
The house is full of atmosphere behind the bricks and roof tiles which I've omitted to show you.
So what is your issue?

The issue?
Dont omit them.
Show it.
As per request.



Speti:
Heres a diagram of my theory.

Everyone:
Youre not showing the backbone of the theoiry..

Scpeit:
I know.
Whats the problem?

Everyone:
...

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:52:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 02:36:38 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:24:04 AM

Ask him to finish the house diagram

Finish it as in what?

You need an object on each floor of the house and house external atmosphere goes through the home structure.

Pay attention to the drawing. Are you incapable of understanding the drawing?
The house is full of atmosphere behind the bricks and roof tiles which I've omitted to show you.
So what is your issue?

I think people are having a hard time understanding how the atmospheric stacking transmits through solid walls. 

You really haven’t explained the basics of this at all.   

Quote from: sobchak on January 26, 2019, 03:03:16 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 02:36:01 AM

Quote from: sobchak on January 26, 2019, 01:56:57 AM

I’m still waiting to understand how gases behave in a sealed container. Why is shape important?  How is stacking created and removed through changes in pressure?  Why is symmetry important?   

I think these are fundamental understandings I would want to have before I tried to do any experiments in a sealed container to investigate various conceptual frameworks. 

Bring me there and I will see what I can do, okay?

I don't think you're interested in the slightest.

As you wish.  I guess I’m starting to think the same of you.

Ok then we'll leave it at that. Enjoy yourself in whatever you choose to do.

Fair enough. You too.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 03:04:37 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:52:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 02:36:38 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:24:04 AM

Ask him to finish the house diagram

Finish it as in what?

You need an object on each floor of the house and house external atmosphere goes through the home structure.

Pay attention to the drawing. Are you incapable of understanding the drawing?
The house is full of atmosphere behind the bricks and roof tiles which I've omitted to show you.
So what is your issue?

I think people are having a hard time understanding how the atmospheric stacking transmits through solid walls. 

You really haven’t explained the basics of this at all.

It only transmits through porosity of the brick structure but the brick structure itself is being squeezed by it's own dense mass (structure) of atmospheric displacement.

This will apply to any object in the house, including the floors, roof joists and so on.

fwiw I did get close to performing the experiment. I got as far as having parts in my amazon shopping cart. My enthusiasm was lost because my personal fe friend wasn’t interested in denpressure or that experiment. It’s basically beads in a spinning dish with a rim. Sceptis problem is that under vacuum, they bounced out instead of holding against the rim. I proposed a modification to the experiment where the beads were attached by fishing line to a spinning hub, and scepti seemed open to that version. I don’t mean to derail the conversation with this, just FYI. Let’s see the house diagram updates!

fwiw I did get close to performing the experiment. I got as far as having parts in my amazon shopping cart. My enthusiasm was lost because my personal fe friend wasn’t interested in denpressure or that experiment. It’s basically beads in a spinning dish with a rim. Sceptis problem is that under vacuum, they bounced out instead of holding against the rim. I proposed a modification to the experiment where the beads were attached by fishing line to a spinning hub, and scepti seemed open to that version. I don’t mean to derail the conversation with this, just FYI. Let’s see the house diagram updates!

So you didn't try any of the experiments?

I've done the experiments and I've seen the results.

And from what you have told us, those results don't back up your claims and instead match the mainstream explanation.

Again, the result you needed was to have the objects behave normally and get thrown out to the edge of the disc under atmospheric pressure, but then at reduced pressure they would need to just spin with the disc, without flying outwards.
Instead, they still flew out, confirming you don't need an atmosphere.

Now again, stick to the basics. Which is more basic, why the atmosphere stacks, or why things fall? Pick which one is more basic and explain it.

fwiw I did get close to performing the experiment. I got as far as having parts in my amazon shopping cart. My enthusiasm was lost because my personal fe friend wasn’t interested in denpressure or that experiment. It’s basically beads in a spinning dish with a rim. Sceptis problem is that under vacuum, they bounced out instead of holding against the rim. I proposed a modification to the experiment where the beads were attached by fishing line to a spinning hub, and scepti seemed open to that version. I don’t mean to derail the conversation with this, just FYI. Let’s see the house diagram updates!

Thanks.  Good to know. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 12:49:48 AM

I've done the experiments and I've seen the results.

Again, the result you needed was to have the objects behave normally and get thrown out to the edge of the disc under atmospheric pressure, but then at reduced pressure they would need to just spin with the disc, without flying outwards.
Instead, they still flew out, confirming you don't need an atmosphere.

How did he explain it all? 

Quote from: defender_of_truth on January 26, 2019, 05:05:02 AM

fwiw I did get close to performing the experiment. I got as far as having parts in my amazon shopping cart. My enthusiasm was lost because my personal fe friend wasn’t interested in denpressure or that experiment. It’s basically beads in a spinning dish with a rim. Sceptis problem is that under vacuum, they bounced out instead of holding against the rim. I proposed a modification to the experiment where the beads were attached by fishing line to a spinning hub, and scepti seemed open to that version. I don’t mean to derail the conversation with this, just FYI. Let’s see the house diagram updates!

So you didn't try any of the experiments?

Which part didn’t you understand?

Draw the house showing a ball or chair how th atmosphereic stack goes through the floors and roof.

Draw the house showing a ball or chair how th atmosphereic stack goes through the floors and roof.

If you are struggling with this after I've explained it earlier then you're never going to grasp anything.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 07:50:04 AM

Draw the house showing a ball or chair how th atmosphereic stack goes through the floors and roof.

If you are struggling with this after I've explained it earlier then you're never going to grasp anything.

Reasonable question.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 07:50:04 AM

Draw the house showing a ball or chair how th atmosphereic stack goes through the floors and roof.

If you are struggling with this after I've explained it earlier then you're never going to grasp anything.

Should i say it again?

The house drawing doesnt show how it works.

Dodgedodge if you want.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 03:04:37 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:52:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 02:36:38 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:24:04 AM

Ask him to finish the house diagram

Finish it as in what?

You need an object on each floor of the house and house external atmosphere goes through the home structure.

Pay attention to the drawing. Are you incapable of understanding the drawing?
The house is full of atmosphere behind the bricks and roof tiles which I've omitted to show you.
So what is your issue?

The issue?
Dont omit them.
Show it.
As per request.



Speti:
Heres a diagram of my theory.

Everyone:
Youre not showing the backbone of the theory..

Scpeit:
I know.
Whats the problem?

Everyone:
...

Why omit the key principle to your theory?
Does that make sense to do that?

How did he explain it all?

He didn't actually provide an explanation.
Instead he just claims that the current model is wrong, as you need air to provide the centrifugal force, and clearly different things happened in the vacuum so the air must be responsible.

If you are struggling with this after I've explained it earlier then you're never going to grasp anything.

You haven't explained it.
You use solid objects as foundations, and have them impermeable at times (for pressure chambers) but then at other times throw that out the window and have them porous and allowing air to get through. If that was the case, we could not have a pressure chamber and liquid column barometers would not work (although with the whole "air magically pushes things down" liquid column  barometers would never work in the first place).


Now then, how about we avoid these complex issues and keep trying to go with the basics?

Which is more basic, why things fall or why the atmosphere stacks?
Please explain whichever one you think is more basic.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 10:09:39 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 07:50:04 AM

Draw the house showing a ball or chair how th atmosphereic stack goes through the floors and roof.

If you are struggling with this after I've explained it earlier then you're never going to grasp anything.

Should i say it again?

The house drawing doesnt show how it works.

Dodgedodge if you want.

It shows exactly how it works. The issue is in you not looking at what is explained and understanding it.
No dodging here.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 10:09:39 AM

If you are struggling with this after I've explained it earlier then you're never going to grasp anything.

You haven't explained it.
You use solid objects as foundations, and have them impermeable at times (for pressure chambers) but then at other times throw that out the window and have them porous and allowing air to get through. If that was the case, we could not have a pressure chamber and liquid column barometers would not work (although with the whole "air magically pushes things down" liquid column  barometers would never work in the first place).


Now then, how about we avoid these complex issues and keep trying to go with the basics?

Which is more basic, why things fall or why the atmosphere stacks?
Please explain whichever one you think is more basic.

Understand all the stuff I've been saying about dense mass (structure) and porosity and trapped atmosphere.
There's not just one simple thing with all this there's a few simple things...but it's understanding how and why those simple things work to answer the questions to do with denpressure.

Some of you seem to understand one little piece and then get lost as it moves on slightly where you end up right back to square one asking the same questions.

It makes me smirk and also scratch my head at times.
Are you all too scared to dare to understand it for fear of ridicule from your internet friends or something?

Quote from: sobchak on January 26, 2019, 05:45:08 AM

How did he explain it all?

He didn't actually provide an explanation.
Instead he just claims that the current model is wrong, as you need air to provide the centrifugal force, and clearly different things happened in the vacuum so the air must be responsible.

I provided a perfect explanation but not one of you took up on it and just argued that it was wrong.

The weird thing is you people argued for centripetal/fugal force and saying it had nothing to do with atmosphere, just like your rockets and what not.

I gave you everything needed to perform experiments that prove you wrong and yet not one of you....not one, bothered to do the experiment.
The closest I got was (after all this time) someone deciding to tell someone else that they were going to try it and had everything in their Amazon basket ready to buy and perform the experiment....but decided not to for some reason.


Who's being dishonest here?
The experiment clearly shows a truth and clearly destroys what you've been indoctrinated to believe.

You can't argue your way out of this with honesty but you can certainly make excuses, as you seem to do at every turn.

Quote from: JackBlack on January 26, 2019, 01:15:24 PM

Quote from: sobchak on January 26, 2019, 05:45:08 AM

How did he explain it all?

He didn't actually provide an explanation.
Instead he just claims that the current model is wrong, as you need air to provide the centrifugal force, and clearly different things happened in the vacuum so the air must be responsible.

I provided a perfect explanation but not one of you took up on it and just argued that it was wrong.

The weird thing is you people argued for centripetal/fugal force and saying it had nothing to do with atmosphere, just like your rockets and what not.

I gave you everything needed to perform experiments that prove you wrong and yet not one of you....not one, bothered to do the experiment.
The closest I got was (after all this time) someone deciding to tell someone else that they were going to try it and had everything in their Amazon basket ready to buy and perform the experiment....but decided not to for some reason.


Who's being dishonest here?
The experiment clearly shows a truth and clearly destroys what you've been indoctrinated to believe.

You can't argue your way out of this with honesty but you can certainly make excuses, as you seem to do at every turn.

Have you done the experiment? (Or has someone else done it, maybe on youtube) And what were the results?

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 03:08:37 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 03:04:37 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:52:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 02:36:38 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:24:04 AM

Ask him to finish the house diagram

Finish it as in what?

You need an object on each floor of the house and house external atmosphere goes through the home structure.

Pay attention to the drawing. Are you incapable of understanding the drawing?
The house is full of atmosphere behind the bricks and roof tiles which I've omitted to show you.
So what is your issue?

The issue?
Dont omit them.
Show it.
As per request.



Speti:
Heres a diagram of my theory.

Everyone:
Youre not showing the backbone of the theory..

Scpeit:
I know.
Whats the problem?

Everyone:
...

Why omit the key principle to your theory?
Does that make sense to do that?

here's your object inside. A brick.
The structure displacing atmosphere inside is clear. The atmosphere seen through the brick would be what is within the brick, trapped inside  but shown to you for clarity.
This is part of the external atmosphere make up in between the internal structure and would not be a part of the brick structure displacing atmosphere.

As opposed to this same block of lead below having little porosity and able to displace a massive amount more atmosphere for it's equal size.
Look closely at the trapped atmosphere and porosity.



For me to carry on explaining people need to start taking notice.

Have you done the experiment? (Or has someone else done it, maybe on youtube) And what were the results?

I've done the experiment. I don;t think there's anything like it on youtube, which tells me a story about it all.

There's absolutely no need to argue this with me. The ball is literally in your court. You can do this experiment against what you people argue for and actually prove to yourselves of the validity of it.

Why does nobody want to perform this experiment?

I think it's one of three things.

Fear of finding the truth or not having the equipment or simply knowing what it represents and are here to make sure people don't accept it by trying to use all kinds of nonsense to scupper it.

Which group are you in?

Quote from: Stash on January 27, 2019, 01:15:07 AM

Have you done the experiment? (Or has someone else done it, maybe on youtube) And what were the results?

I've done the experiment. I don;t think there's anything like it on youtube, which tells me a story about it all.

There's absolutely no need to argue this with me. The ball is literally in your court. You can do this experiment against what you people argue for and actually prove to yourselves of the validity of it.

Why does nobody want to perform this experiment?

I think it's one of three things.

Fear of finding the truth or not having the equipment or simply knowing what it represents and are here to make sure people don't accept it by trying to use all kinds of nonsense to scupper it.

Which group are you in?

Why does no one want to perform the experiment? First off, no one really cares. Secondly, what is the experiment? Hard to replicate when you don't know how to perform it. I've seen allusions to it, but not an, "Ok, do this, then that" kind of thing.

As well, what are the expected results from the experiment?
What were you're results from the experiment(s)?

People kinda need all of this basic info to even consider doing the experiment(s). Why so cagey about what it is, how to do it and what your results were? Seems like first order info regarding experimentation.

Just lay out the experiment, your expected results and what your results were. That's literally grade school experimentation parameters. If we get any takers, great.

Scepti - please show measurments to prove there is a downward air pressure. Surely the effect on rate of fall etc. will differ if there is a ceiling above an object.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 12:31:52 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 03:08:37 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 03:04:37 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:52:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 02:36:38 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:24:04 AM

Ask him to finish the house diagram

Finish it as in what?

You need an object on each floor of the house and house external atmosphere goes through the home structure.

Pay attention to the drawing. Are you incapable of understanding the drawing?
The house is full of atmosphere behind the bricks and roof tiles which I've omitted to show you.
So what is your issue?

The issue?
Dont omit them.
Show it.
As per request.



Speti:
Heres a diagram of my theory.

Everyone:
Youre not showing the backbone of the theory..

Scpeit:
I know.
Whats the problem?

Everyone:
...

Why omit the key principle to your theory?
Does that make sense to do that?

here's your object inside. A brick.
The structure displacing atmosphere inside is clear. The atmosphere seen through the brick would be what is within the brick, trapped inside  but shown to you for clarity.
This is part of the external atmosphere make up in between the internal structure and would not be a part of the brick structure displacing atmosphere.

As opposed to this same block of lead below having little porosity and able to displace a massive amount more atmosphere for it's equal size.
Look closely at the trapped atmosphere and porosity.



For me to carry on explaining people need to start taking notice.

I still do not see any experiment, nothing.
It's just a sketch of a two storey house but there are no measurements or any other way to determine the amount of "trapped atmosphere and porosity."

So there is no evidence there of denpressure vs anything else.

Why does no one want to perform the experiment? First off, no one really cares.

That pretty much answers a lot of questions about the mindset of people like yourself.

No need to reply, you've said all you need to say.

Scepti - please show measurments to prove there is a downward air pressure. Surely the effect on rate of fall etc. will differ if there is a ceiling above an object.

Yep, depending on how enclosed the atmosphere is, it will certainly change the rate of fall by resistance under the mass.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 27, 2019, 01:19:23 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 12:31:52 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 03:08:37 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 03:04:37 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:52:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 26, 2019, 02:36:38 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 26, 2019, 02:24:04 AM

Ask him to finish the house diagram

Finish it as in what?

You need an object on each floor of the house and house external atmosphere goes through the home structure.

Pay attention to the drawing. Are you incapable of understanding the drawing?
The house is full of atmosphere behind the bricks and roof tiles which I've omitted to show you.
So what is your issue?

The issue?
Dont omit them.
Show it.
As per request.



Speti:
Heres a diagram of my theory.

Everyone:
Youre not showing the backbone of the theory..

Scpeit:
I know.
Whats the problem?

Everyone:
...

Why omit the key principle to your theory?
Does that make sense to do that?

here's your object inside. A brick.
The structure displacing atmosphere inside is clear. The atmosphere seen through the brick would be what is within the brick, trapped inside  but shown to you for clarity.
This is part of the external atmosphere make up in between the internal structure and would not be a part of the brick structure displacing atmosphere.

As opposed to this same block of lead below having little porosity and able to displace a massive amount more atmosphere for it's equal size.
Look closely at the trapped atmosphere and porosity.



For me to carry on explaining people need to start taking notice.

I still do not see any experiment, nothing.
It's just a sketch of a two storey house but there are no measurements or any other way to determine the amount of "trapped atmosphere and porosity."

So there is no evidence there of denpressure vs anything else.

There is but you're in total denial because you live on mathematics and think you need them in order to actually explain stuff.

That's where you fall down and your obvious denial of anything outside of authority.