Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

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inquisitive

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3450 on: January 24, 2019, 08:47:08 AM »
Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theories.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.
As in 50kg of air? Atmospheric pressure is measured in Pascals. It is defined as one newton per square metre.

Surely your mass pushes down against the scale plate?
My mass is pushing up against the atmosphere while I use the compressible scale plate as my resistant foundation.
That's how I have measurement of my dense mass (structure) called, weight
And pushing sideways.  You are pushing up before you get on the scales, no changes in the atmosphere when you get on them.

Therefore local atmospheric pressure affects weight

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3451 on: January 24, 2019, 08:47:46 AM »
Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theiries.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.

Ok so if I stand in a room that has a higher pressure, I should weigh more?
Absolutely.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3452 on: January 24, 2019, 08:51:02 AM »
Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theories.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.
As in 50kg of air? Atmospheric pressure is measured in Pascals. It is defined as one newton per square metre.

Surely your mass pushes down against the scale plate?
My mass is pushing up against the atmosphere while I use the compressible scale plate as my resistant foundation.
That's how I have measurement of my dense mass (structure) called, weight
And pushing sideways.  You are pushing up before you get on the scales, no changes in the atmosphere when you get on them.

Therefore local atmospheric pressure affects weight
Yep you push the atmosphere away from you all around which is a friction grip. The push down of the atmosphere against your mass pushing in to it is what creates your scale weight when you use a compressible scale plate as your foundation.

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sobchak

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3453 on: January 24, 2019, 08:52:06 AM »
If we were in some scientific dark age, technology and knowledge remaining stagnant over the generations, I could seriously consider this, that people were just parroting what was taught without knowing reality, and then passing it on to the next person to come along. 

But this is not what we have today.
It's all about what you accept as being allowed to happen and what isn't.
We can go through stories of Tesla or other inventors and argue whether some of their stuff was used correctly or not used at all.

It all depends what is passed on from the fact section or the fiction section.
Only physical knowledge of something can prove a reality.
We could easily be duped on the molecular level of much stuff but swayed with an alternate view of it by nothing more than shoehorned equations to fit.




Quote from: sobchak
  We have an exponential growth in knowledge and technological power.  In most fields, If you use a textbook from 10 years ago you are already hopelessly out of date.
Of course. Things speed up. Things change.
It's just a case of what you think you're learning when you equate it all to life experience.
I say very little, other than theoreticals as opposed to yesteryear when you actually did learn life skills.


Quote from: sobchak
  Who is writing these new textbooks?
It depends on the writer and which shelf it belongs on, Fact or fiction or a mixture of both.

Quote from: sobchak
Where are all these new conceptual frameworks and increased understandings coming from if people are just parroting through the generations what they have been told?
Understanding of what?
That's the key issue.
What is it that we're understanding today that makes us smarter than yesteryear?

Quote from: sobchak
  The project I am currently working on would have been considered total science fiction just a couple of decades ago, its working, and we are figuring out the protocols to make it happen, there is no textbook or source that tells us what to do, we just have information about what is.  How do things like this occur, how do we grab hold of basic building blocks of reality and bend them to our will in new and amazing ways, if we have no fundamental knowledge of what we are doing? 
A record to a cd was unheard of.
A flat screen TV from a tube.
It just depends on what can be classed as sci-fi in that time to this time.
I mean look at the moon landings. In the early 1900's it was sci-fi and yet here we go to 1969 and all of a sudden its real sci-fi?.
And today with all that extra technology we still can't seem to go.
It makes you wonder what we are really learning and how far technology is taking us, doesn't it?

Fact shelf or the fiction shelf of knowledge?
You see, I don't class fictional stories as any more knowledge than knowing what the fictional characters did in it. It's maybe good for a later quiz to see how good our memories are, in theory.
Where are the physical facts of how smart we've become?

Most people have lost the art of writing in favour of text....u no wot i mean..... and so on.




Quote from: sobchak
Every year we know more and more, and can do more and more.  This might be leaving you behind as you sit and argue about whether your model fits simple phenomena, but please dont confuse your lack of knowledge with a lack of knowledge.
Every year we do know more and more. But what exactly is it that we, as the general public know more of? Is it history?
How much more do we know that is a truth?
Most likely the history we didn't know about but our parents did and we will know the history of today, tomorrow and our kids will know our overall history because we can tell them the physical truths of our time but they still have to rely on us telling them that truth.

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Sure, you are entitled to personally believe or reject any claim for any reason you want.  People have putting ideas onto their own personal fact or fiction shelves forever, and I assume they will continue to as long as they are around. 

My real question though is about on what basis such decisions are made.  What is a rational reason for putting a claim onto ones personal fact or fiction shelf? 

I don't have a great answer for this, I could talk a lot about what I think about good and bad reasons, but have been talking quite a bit lately, and I’m sure folks are getting tired of my ramblings.  However, I find this question compelling and would be interested in getting yours and others take on it. 

That said, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, Sceptimatic, but it seems pretty obvious to me that whatever basis I would choose for making such judgements, if it was rational and consistent, there is no way that your story would end anywhere other than the gonzo fiction section.  I mean seriously, you have some sort of magic reflective crystal in the middle of a flat domed earth, invisible whirlpools, some sort of elastic fluid as an atmosphere, directional pressures, and a host of other unique ideas.  As some one else once aptly put it, it is just so fanciful

What possible reason is there for not putting this onto the fiction shelf?  I mean, if I have to discard conceptual models that give me consistent navigation over the entire earth, can predict lunar and solar eclipses for hundreds of years into the future, and can be used successfully in a host of engineering disciplines, what am I supposed to do rationally with a model that can’t even describe a sunset consistently???  FFS (call out to Themightykabool), your model can’t even give us map of the world we can use, I feel like you might as well just draw the chair you are sitting in, put an x on it and write “here be dragons” around the rest of the page. 

How on earth am I supposed to both be rationally skeptical, like you ask us to be, and then not use this skepticism to trash your concepts?

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inquisitive

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3454 on: January 24, 2019, 08:52:13 AM »
Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theiries.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.

Ok so if I stand in a room that has a higher pressure, I should weigh more?
Absolutely.
Measurements show that is incorrect. A 1kg bag of sugar always weighs 1kg.

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sobchak

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3455 on: January 24, 2019, 08:54:32 AM »
I'm trying to figure out a way to explain it to you without setting you back by me not doing a clear enough job to make it understandable.

Give me a little bit of time to get a decent analogy together to give you an idea.
I could simply go on and on trying to explain little bits but it's going to end up being counter productive for you...and for me.
A bit of patience for a day or two, ok?

Take all the time you need Sceptimatic, Im in no rush.  And if you find you cant find the right words, just let me know and I will drop it. 

Please try for clarity of expression though if you do come back to it.  Avoid analogies if you can, don't tell me what it is like, just tell me what it is

Diagrams would be very helpful. 

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inquisitive

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3456 on: January 24, 2019, 08:55:00 AM »
Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theories.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.
As in 50kg of air? Atmospheric pressure is measured in Pascals. It is defined as one newton per square metre.

Surely your mass pushes down against the scale plate?
My mass is pushing up against the atmosphere while I use the compressible scale plate as my resistant foundation.
That's how I have measurement of my dense mass (structure) called, weight
And pushing sideways.  You are pushing up before you get on the scales, no changes in the atmosphere when you get on them.

Therefore local atmospheric pressure affects weight
Yep you push the atmosphere away from you all around which is a friction grip. The push down of the atmosphere against your mass pushing in to it is what creates your scale weight when you use a compressible scale plate as your foundation.
Which means a larger suface area will weigh more for 2 objects of the same material and volume.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3457 on: January 24, 2019, 09:27:38 AM »
Sure, you are entitled to personally believe or reject any claim for any reason you want.  People have putting ideas onto their own personal fact or fiction shelves forever, and I assume they will continue to as long as they are around. 

My real question though is about on what basis such decisions are made.  What is a rational reason for putting a claim onto ones personal fact or fiction shelf? 
I don't have a great answer for this, I could talk a lot about what I think about good and bad reasons, but have been talking quite a bit lately, and I’m sure folks are getting tired of my ramblings.  However, I find this question compelling and would be interested in getting yours and others take on it.
Good question.
First of all you can place any idea onto a fact or fiction shelf depending on what authority allows that.
In terms of war, the victors get to write the history.
Authority creates the laws.
Chosen experts get to rubber-stamp theories into fact based on peer review that chooses the fact or fiction shelf with only, at best...at times...circumstantial evidence.

 
Quote from: sobchak

That said, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, Sceptimatic, but it seems pretty obvious to me that whatever basis I would choose for making such judgements, if it was rational and consistent, there is no way that your story would end anywhere other than the gonzo fiction section.  I mean seriously, you have some sort of magic reflective crystal in the middle of a flat domed earth, invisible whirlpools, some sort of elastic fluid as an atmosphere, directional pressures, and a host of other unique ideas.  As some one else once aptly put it, it is just so fanciful.
And yet you have no problem believing a rover has been driving about on a planet called mars for over a decade, as well as another one doing the same in supposed landing not too long ago.
This is done against your knowing ideas on how a parachute works on Earth, because on this so called planet, mars, it allegedly has so little  atmosphere as to be rendered almost a vacuum, as they say/said.  It might as well be the low pressure evacuation chamber we constantly get shown where drone can't fly in let alone have a parachute scoop the atmosphere to arrest the so called supersonic speed of a so called rover.

And also an adherence to a force that nobody knows as to what it is..but apparently it's there because things fall... and mass  just attracts mass because the centre of the Earth supposedly pulls everything to it and yet when  argued about falling through a hole dug anywhere on it and something falling into it...apparently near the centre you stop and float or something to that effect, as we're told.


And a whole host of other nonsense that is so bizarre as to be not only irrational, but to make any rational person wonder just what is actually real in terms of the stuff we can do nothing about other than to accept or not because it's shrouded in secrecy, security or bandied about with excuses after excuses for the workings, supposedly backed up by equations that nobody actually knows the meaning of.
I could go on but it's not worth it in this thread as it'll send it way off.
 
Quote from: sobchak

What possible reason is there for not putting this onto the fiction shelf?
None. It can be placed where anyone wants to place it. It's their right to do that.
I'm not asking you to believe it. I'm not asking you to do anything with it.
You decide whatever you want to do.

If you don't want to carry on trying to get it then you are entitled to simply carry on with something else that takes your interest and leave the tin foil hat nut job (me) to carry it on....which I certainly will, whatever shelf it's placed on by others.



Quote from: sobchak

 I mean, if I have to discard conceptual models that give me consistent navigation over the entire earth, can predict lunar and solar eclipses for hundreds of years into the future, and can be used successfully in a host of engineering disciplines, what am I supposed to do rationally with a model that can’t even describe a sunset consistently???  FFS (call out to Themightykabool), your model can’t even give us map of the world we can use, I feel like you might as well just draw the chair you are sitting in, put an x on it and write “here be dragons” around the rest of the page. 
You're navigating over the Earth in your mind. By books from what shelf?
You are predicting everything from books and such, without anything other than adherence to what they tell you.
It's all on a platter for you to devour without any after dinner speech needed to question the food you just ate, unless you feel the need to compliment it for no other reason than it was palatable.
Just imagine if your platter of food was not what you thought you were eating.

That's the key issue.


Quote from: sobchak

How on earth am I supposed to both be rationally skeptical, like you ask us to be, and then not use this skepticism to trash your concepts?
I ask you to look at my stuff without using your stuff to set you back.
I'm simply asking you to understand something from my point.
You find it hard because you have a head full of stuff from the year blot in your life, drummed into your mind, which follows a narrative.

I understand how you can find what I'm saying, silly.
I find the whole global nonsense more than silly, so we are both not in any way under any illusions about our thoughts against models.

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inquisitive

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3458 on: January 24, 2019, 09:51:49 AM »
Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theiries.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.

Ok so if I stand in a room that has a higher pressure, I should weigh more?
Absolutely.
Measurements show that is incorrect. A 1kg bag of sugar always weighs 1kg.
Answer please.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3459 on: January 24, 2019, 10:09:55 AM »
Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theiries.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.

Ok so if I stand in a room that has a higher pressure, I should weigh more?
Absolutely.
Measurements show that is incorrect. A 1kg bag of sugar always weighs 1kg.
Unless youre on the fictional moon and thefictional gravity/preductable fall rate is different.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3460 on: January 24, 2019, 10:44:32 AM »
Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theiries.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.

Ok so if I stand in a room that has a higher pressure, I should weigh more?
Absolutely.
Measurements show that is incorrect. A 1kg bag of sugar always weighs 1kg.
Answer please.
We are not talking about massive change. The change would be minimal.

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inquisitive

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3461 on: January 24, 2019, 11:33:16 AM »
Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theiries.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.

Ok so if I stand in a room that has a higher pressure, I should weigh more?
Absolutely.
Measurements show that is incorrect. A 1kg bag of sugar always weighs 1kg.
Answer please.
We are not talking about massive change. The change would be minimal.
It can very by 10%.  As would the weight.

Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3462 on: January 24, 2019, 12:09:32 PM »
scepti, I want to chime in here and remind you that just because something is mystical to you, does not mean it is fiction. Your points about rubber stamping history is an interesting one, but math, science, and engineering are different. The whole goal of the scientific method is to remove human elements. Engineering methods are even more tangible than math and science to the layperson. Experiments are repeatable, so it doesn't matter who rubber stamped what; because you can verify those results for yourself. If I test something and it works, I may use it. I don't necessarily care why or how, but I have verified it works. I think the point you are missing, is that most physics models didn't start as thought experiments; but from observations and experiments. You assert that "globe theory" is fictional, because you don't understand it. Worse still, is that you are unwilling to repeat the experiments. Those are truly pitiful mistakes to make. It's akin to being continually be beaten in a game and insisting you were the better player.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3463 on: January 24, 2019, 01:29:03 PM »
scepti, I want to chime in here and remind you that just because something is mystical to you, does not mean it is fiction. Your points about rubber stamping history is an interesting one, but math, science, and engineering are different. The whole goal of the scientific method is to remove human elements. Engineering methods are even more tangible than math and science to the layperson. Experiments are repeatable, so it doesn't matter who rubber stamped what; because you can verify those results for yourself. If I test something and it works, I may use it. I don't necessarily care why or how, but I have verified it works. I think the point you are missing, is that most physics models didn't start as thought experiments; but from observations and experiments. You assert that "globe theory" is fictional, because you don't understand it. Worse still, is that you are unwilling to repeat the experiments. Those are truly pitiful mistakes to make. It's akin to being continually be beaten in a game and insisting you were the better player.
I understand there are genuine experiments. I'm not arguing those.
There's also a lot of duping going on which I am disputing.
There's lots of stuff I don't understand but there's lots I do and some where I've done experiments to get to where I am now, whether people want to dispute that or whatever.

Simple logical sense tells any rational person that be are not on a spinning lobe, aside from the nonsense spewed out with silly equations.
But I'm not so stupid as to think mainstream indoctrination is going to stop anytime soon and all of a sudden just tell all and sundry that the globe and such like, is nonsense and it's really flattish and we live inside a natural dome.

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inquisitive

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3464 on: January 24, 2019, 01:31:06 PM »
scepti, I want to chime in here and remind you that just because something is mystical to you, does not mean it is fiction. Your points about rubber stamping history is an interesting one, but math, science, and engineering are different. The whole goal of the scientific method is to remove human elements. Engineering methods are even more tangible than math and science to the layperson. Experiments are repeatable, so it doesn't matter who rubber stamped what; because you can verify those results for yourself. If I test something and it works, I may use it. I don't necessarily care why or how, but I have verified it works. I think the point you are missing, is that most physics models didn't start as thought experiments; but from observations and experiments. You assert that "globe theory" is fictional, because you don't understand it. Worse still, is that you are unwilling to repeat the experiments. Those are truly pitiful mistakes to make. It's akin to being continually be beaten in a game and insisting you were the better player.
I understand there are genuine experiments. I'm not arguing those.
There's also a lot of duping going on which I am disputing.
There's lots of stuff I don't understand but there's lots I do and some where I've done experiments to get to where I am now, whether people want to dispute that or whatever.

Simple logical sense tells any rational person that be are not on a spinning lobe, aside from the nonsense spewed out with silly equations.
But I'm not so stupid as to think mainstream indoctrination is going to stop anytime soon and all of a sudden just tell all and sundry that the globe and such like, is nonsense and it's really flattish and we live inside a natural dome.
The path of the sun shows us revolving round it.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3465 on: January 24, 2019, 01:45:07 PM »


Suchh a big post.

Physcists are thought scientsits until someone comes along and biild a massive CERN or sees somehing in a HUBBLE.
You have no math and no model and no diagram and have already been shown incorrect in experiemt.
Don't pretend you know they exist. You accept what you're told.
This is exactly what I'm saying when people think they're smarter today than yesteryear.

And you with no experiemt diagram photo math or coroborating winesses have even less.
Of course. I'm not generally armed with off the shelf stuff to answer my questions. And my theories are generally my own with little back up,
I have to rely on fine tuning my theories with as much thought process coupled with snippets of experiments that tell me the stories of how it can work overall.
I'm far from there but I believe on the right track.

You are only on your right track because you are the passenger on the train of mainstream thought, with little scope of detour.

Corect
The wheel is round.
No need to reinvent it.
Take advangtage and ride on to bigger and better things.

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JackBlack

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Re: Den Pressure - A massive pile of self contradictory nonsense.
« Reply #3466 on: January 24, 2019, 01:46:22 PM »
You type this and then below you type what you do.
Yes, showing your model is circular.
You claim that the atmosphere and its stacking is the reason things fall, but then try using things falling to explain why the atmosphere stacks.
That is completely circular.
Without the atmosphere stacking there would be no reason for things to fall and thus no reason for the atmosphere to stack in your  model.
That means there is no reason for the atmosphere to stack.

Stop trying to explain the atmospheric stacking with things falling, not if you intend on using the stacked atmosphere to explain why things fall.

Like I said, pick which you think is most basic and explain it. That means you can't use the other to explain it.

The above should be more than enough.
The above shows your model is entirely circular and thus you have no justification for anything.

Let me ask you a question.
Why do you think things are pushed down?
This is a thread to discuss your model. If you want to discuss another model, make a new thread. Stop with the distractions.
I say very little, other than theoreticals as opposed to yesteryear when you actually did learn life skills.
The big issue is that those life skills are vastly changing.
The skills you need now to do well are quite different to those from 50 years ago.

What is it that we're understanding today that makes us smarter than yesteryear?
Not smarter, more educated/knowledgeable.

Give me a little bit of time to get a decent analogy together to give you an idea.
Have you considered that your analogies aren't helpful at all?
Try an actual explanation.

Please explain some methods of measuring atmospheric pressure at a particular point to validate your theiries.
Stand on a measuring scale and measure how much atmosphere your mass pushes up against the resistance to that push using that scale plate as the foundation.
Read the weight.
Stuff like that.
So you agree that your weight is a measure of atmospheric pressure? Even though it has been established that the atmosphere only has a minor effect on weight in reality (due to buoyancy), and thus your model is wrong?

This is done against your knowing ideas on how a parachute works on Earth, because on this so called planet, mars, it allegedly has so little  atmosphere as to be rendered almost a vacuum, as they say/said.
So now you accept low pressure is a vacuum?

If I recall correctly, Mars has an atmosphere which is roughly 1% that of Earth, with it varying depending on if you are focusing on pressure or density.
Meanwhile the gravity is also smaller at roughly 1/3 rd of Earth. This means a parachute wont be as effective, but also doesn't need to be as effective.
They also don't land with parachutes. That only provides part of the slowing down process. They have landed in various ways, including shock absorbers in the form of cushions, and rockets.

And also an adherence to a force that nobody knows as to what it is
Yes, electromagnetism. No one knows what it is, but almost everyone agrees upon its existence because charges clearly interact with each other and with magnetic fields.
Just like all the fundamental forces of nature.

And a whole host of other nonsense
Except you are yet to show any of it to be nonsense. Instead you just have your pathetic ridicule of it.

You are predicting everything from books and such, without anything other than adherence to what they tell you.
Again, not everyone is like you.
Some people have actually examined reality, such as travelling various places and performing various experiments. The models we are presented with from mainstream sources work.

You find it hard because you have a head full of stuff from the year blot in your life
Again, stop acting like people are rejecting your model just because they know another.
People reject it because it literally makes no sense.

The change would be minimal.
If the change is minimal then you are clearly not measuring pressure and something else is causing the weight, with the pressure possibly influencing it slightly.
Meanwhile, with an actual barometer, the change is significant.

Simple logical sense tells any rational person that be are not on a spinning lobe
Yes, we aren't on a lobe. However rational thought with simple observations of reality clearly indicate we are on a spinning round object.
There is absolutely nothing to indicate we are not.
Perhaps more importantly, there is no reason to lie about it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3467 on: January 24, 2019, 10:55:48 PM »


Corect
The wheel is round.
No need to reinvent it.
Take advangtage and ride on to bigger and better things.
I'm fine with the wheel. I'm fine with a lot of things.
By all means keep using them as if you have some point to make but remember it has no bearing on what I don't accept. And that is what I'm arguing.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - The reality of fictional gravity.
« Reply #3468 on: January 24, 2019, 11:10:06 PM »

If the change is minimal then you are clearly not measuring pressure and something else is causing the weight, with the pressure possibly influencing it slightly.
Meanwhile, with an actual barometer, the change is significant.

The change in a barometer is entirely different to the scale in terms of readings because the barometer doesn't measure buoyancy where the scales factor that in, naturally.

It's all about the stack resistance. Remember me saying the scale foundation is compressible?
There's a reason for that, right?...No, not your fake gravity.

Because it's compressible it means it has to compress against the stack it's above and that stack creates what we all know as , buoyancy. It's just a crushing reaction to the action of force applied to it, as in anything placed on those scales will push into that stack and push the stack aside...but the displaced stack has to go somewhere and just like pushing something into water, you part it and create a stack pressure that squeezes back up but is no match for the force pushing down.

This is fine on a normal scale but a sealed scale in terms of a barometer does not have any opportunity for much buoyancy, although it does have a minimal amount which is what is trapped inside of the tube that allows the mercury to easily compress it.

Nothing's accurate in that respect but it doesn't need to be as long as we use consistent measurements.



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inquisitive

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Re: Den Pressure - The reality of fictional gravity.
« Reply #3469 on: January 25, 2019, 01:01:21 AM »

If the change is minimal then you are clearly not measuring pressure and something else is causing the weight, with the pressure possibly influencing it slightly.
Meanwhile, with an actual barometer, the change is significant.

The change in a barometer is entirely different to the scale in terms of readings because the barometer doesn't measure buoyancy where the scales factor that in, naturally.

It's all about the stack resistance. Remember me saying the scale foundation is compressible?
There's a reason for that, right?...No, not your fake gravity.

Because it's compressible it means it has to compress against the stack it's above and that stack creates what we all know as , buoyancy. It's just a crushing reaction to the action of force applied to it, as in anything placed on those scales will push into that stack and push the stack aside...but the displaced stack has to go somewhere and just like pushing something into water, you part it and create a stack pressure that squeezes back up but is no match for the force pushing down.

This is fine on a normal scale but a sealed scale in terms of a barometer does not have any opportunity for much buoyancy, although it does have a minimal amount which is what is trapped inside of the tube that allows the mercury to easily compress it.

Nothing's accurate in that respect but it doesn't need to be as long as we use consistent measurements.
A 10% reduction in  atmospheric pressure should see a 10% reduction in measured weight.

If a piece of material 1m x 1m x 10mm (top surface area 1sq m.) weighs 10kg that the same material 500mm x 500mm x 40mm (0.25sq m.) should weigh 2.5kg.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 03:23:25 AM by inquisitive »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - The reality of fictional gravity.
« Reply #3470 on: January 25, 2019, 01:03:14 AM »

If the change is minimal then you are clearly not measuring pressure and something else is causing the weight, with the pressure possibly influencing it slightly.
Meanwhile, with an actual barometer, the change is significant.

The change in a barometer is entirely different to the scale in terms of readings because the barometer doesn't measure buoyancy where the scales factor that in, naturally.

It's all about the stack resistance. Remember me saying the scale foundation is compressible?
There's a reason for that, right?...No, not your fake gravity.

Because it's compressible it means it has to compress against the stack it's above and that stack creates what we all know as , buoyancy. It's just a crushing reaction to the action of force applied to it, as in anything placed on those scales will push into that stack and push the stack aside...but the displaced stack has to go somewhere and just like pushing something into water, you part it and create a stack pressure that squeezes back up but is no match for the force pushing down.

This is fine on a normal scale but a sealed scale in terms of a barometer does not have any opportunity for much buoyancy, although it does have a minimal amount which is what is trapped inside of the tube that allows the mercury to easily compress it.

Nothing's accurate in that respect but it doesn't need to be as long as we use consistent measurements.
A 10% reduction in  atmospheric pressure should see a 10% reduction in measured weight.

If a piece of material 1m x 1m x 10mm weighs 10kg that the same material 500mm x 500mm x 40mm should weigh 2.5kg.
Do you know why objects expand and contract?

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inquisitive

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Re: Den Pressure - The reality of fictional gravity.
« Reply #3471 on: January 25, 2019, 01:13:43 AM »

If the change is minimal then you are clearly not measuring pressure and something else is causing the weight, with the pressure possibly influencing it slightly.
Meanwhile, with an actual barometer, the change is significant.

The change in a barometer is entirely different to the scale in terms of readings because the barometer doesn't measure buoyancy where the scales factor that in, naturally.

It's all about the stack resistance. Remember me saying the scale foundation is compressible?
There's a reason for that, right?...No, not your fake gravity.

Because it's compressible it means it has to compress against the stack it's above and that stack creates what we all know as , buoyancy. It's just a crushing reaction to the action of force applied to it, as in anything placed on those scales will push into that stack and push the stack aside...but the displaced stack has to go somewhere and just like pushing something into water, you part it and create a stack pressure that squeezes back up but is no match for the force pushing down.

This is fine on a normal scale but a sealed scale in terms of a barometer does not have any opportunity for much buoyancy, although it does have a minimal amount which is what is trapped inside of the tube that allows the mercury to easily compress it.

Nothing's accurate in that respect but it doesn't need to be as long as we use consistent measurements.
A 10% reduction in  atmospheric pressure should see a 10% reduction in measured weight.

If a piece of material 1m x 1m x 10mm weighs 10kg that the same material 500mm x 500mm x 40mm should weigh 2.5kg.
Do you know why objects expand and contract?
Off topic, please explain the above.  Expansion is based on temperature.

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sobchak

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3472 on: January 25, 2019, 01:18:58 AM »
First of all you can place any idea onto a fact or fiction shelf depending on what authority allows that.
In terms of war, the victors get to write the history.
Authority creates the laws.
Chosen experts get to rubber-stamp theories into fact based on peer review that chooses the fact or fiction shelf with only, at best...at times...circumstantial evidence.

Thanks for the response and the above opinion.   Being in active research, my experiences do not match at all the above, so I'm obviously (and I hope you would say understandably) going to take my own physical reality as a framework and use that to come to a drastically differing opinion.  Thanks for sharing though, I think it is important to realize how people outside of science and science training see the institutions as closed and controlled.  I am hopeful the current move toward Open Science is at least a step in the right direction to allow people to rethink this perception.


Quote from: sceptimatic

Quote from: sobchak

That said, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, Sceptimatic, but it seems pretty obvious to me that whatever basis I would choose for making such judgements, if it was rational and consistent, there is no way that your story would end anywhere other than the gonzo fiction section.  I mean seriously, you have some sort of magic reflective crystal in the middle of a flat domed earth, invisible whirlpools, some sort of elastic fluid as an atmosphere, directional pressures, and a host of other unique ideas.  As some one else once aptly put it, it is just so fanciful.
And yet you have no problem believing a rover has been driving about on a planet called mars for over a decade, as well as another one doing the same in supposed landing not too long ago.
This is done against your knowing ideas on how a parachute works on Earth, because on this so called planet, mars, it allegedly has so little  atmosphere as to be rendered almost a vacuum, as they say/said.  It might as well be the low pressure evacuation chamber we constantly get shown where drone can't fly in let alone have a parachute scoop the atmosphere to arrest the so called supersonic speed of a so called rover.

And also an adherence to a force that nobody knows as to what it is..but apparently it's there because things fall... and mass  just attracts mass because the centre of the Earth supposedly pulls everything to it and yet when  argued about falling through a hole dug anywhere on it and something falling into it...apparently near the centre you stop and float or something to that effect, as we're told.


And a whole host of other nonsense that is so bizarre as to be not only irrational, but to make any rational person wonder just what is actually real in terms of the stuff we can do nothing about other than to accept or not because it's shrouded in secrecy, security or bandied about with excuses after excuses for the workings, supposedly backed up by equations that nobody actually knows the meaning of.
I could go on but it's not worth it in this thread as it'll send it way off.
 

Sure, you think I believe in silly things and vice versa.  I have no problem with that, people believe in all sorts of things that I believe are silly, and thankfully it doesn't stop me from talking to them or trying to relate.

The difference here is that I am not trying to get you to accept the Mars rover, or Newtonian Mechanics, or a gravity driven heliocentric model of the solar system.  You are completely free to picture the world as you want, it can be controlled by unseen deities, a living planetary system to worship, or even a domed cell warmed by a giant crystal somewhere up at the North pole, possibly at Santa’s workshop – it doesn't matter, I have no interest in changing your mind to the conceptual models I use to think about the world around me.   But you have been doing this for years, and it seems like you are trying to get people to understand and agree with your conceptual model.  Am I wrong?  If you genuinely dont care whether people put your model onto the fact or fiction shelf, why are you here?  Are you just trolling for the interactions, are you trying to just convince yourself, are you bored?  What is your motivation for doing this year after year after year if it is not to get people to reevaluate what things they have put on the fact or fiction shelf, and to take a good look at your own model in this process?
 
 
Quote from: sceptimatic
Quote from: sobchak

What possible reason is there for not putting this onto the fiction shelf?
None.
Okay.  Noted.  But then the question above is even more relevant.  If there is no rational reason to not think your model is fiction, what are you doing here? 

Quote from: sceptimatic
Quote from: sobchak

How on earth am I supposed to both be rationally skeptical, like you ask us to be, and then not use this skepticism to trash your concepts?
I ask you to look at my stuff without using your stuff to set you back.
I'm simply asking you to understand something from my point.
You find it hard because you have a head full of stuff from the year blot in your life, drummed into your mind, which follows a narrative.
 

Okay, I am trying to do this.  I am putting aside physical reality and focusing on your conceptual model.  What are its foundational principles?  What logically follows from it?  I am trying to understand it well enough so eventually I can make predictions from it to compare with physical reality without needing you as a layer of interpretation.  I don't know whether this is possible yet, whether you have a clear enough idea about this concept to get me there, but I am trying, and I hope you will continue to as well. 

I am doing this because I like trying to think about the world in different ways, using different frameworks to challenge my thinking.   But you should know that at the end of the day I still watch the sunset drop behind the horizon, and unless you can at explain simple, everyday phenomena like this, no one is going to find the path to the truth you think is out there. 

-------------------
One more note, Sceptimatic.   I have a suggestion, my assumption is you will ignore it or say it is worthless, but I feel it would be remiss to not tell you -

Learn mathematics

It is possible.  It might not be easy, but it is worth the effort.  Every time you talk about “silly equations” that “no one understands”, you peg yourself as completely ignorant about some of the most basic tools of science.  Arguing from a place of ignorance says a lot about people, and I agree with your criticism of people who bash your conceptual model without at least taking the time to understand it.   The truth is a lot of people understand these equations, even if you dont.   We understand them fully, and these equations are a wonderful tool to unambiguously describe relationships in the physical world. 

Learn mathematics Sceptimatic, if only to argue from a place of understanding instead of ignorance.   

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - The reality of fictional gravity.
« Reply #3473 on: January 25, 2019, 01:24:03 AM »
Expansion is based on temperature.
What causes temperature?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - The reality of fictional gravity.
« Reply #3474 on: January 25, 2019, 02:05:21 AM »
Expansion is based on temperature.
What causes temperature?

Ohweee
Another troll quesion.
Took 13pg to get to a nonpoint about weight.
Cut to the chase.
Whats your nonpoint about temp?

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JackBlack

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Re: Den Pressure - The reality of fictional gravity.
« Reply #3475 on: January 25, 2019, 02:20:59 AM »
The change in a barometer is entirely different to the scale in terms of readings because the barometer doesn't measure buoyancy where the scales factor that in, naturally.
Buoyancy is the only change observed in weight measurements due to changing pressure.
The change is entirely different because they are measuring entirely different things.

It's all about the stack resistance. Remember me saying the scale foundation is compressible?
Again, you saying things doesn't magically make it correct.

Before going into any complex part of your model, start with the basics.

What causes temperature?
Completely irrelevant to the topic.

Why do you find it so hard to address the simple, basic issues with your model and explain simple things?

Again, which is most basic, things falling or the atmosphere stacking?
Pick one and explain it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3476 on: January 25, 2019, 02:32:24 AM »
Thanks for the response and the above opinion.   Being in active research, my experiences do not match at all the above, so I'm obviously (and I hope you would say understandably) going to take my own physical reality as a framework and use that to come to a drastically differing opinion.  Thanks for sharing though, I think it is important to realize how people outside of science and science training see the institutions as closed and controlled.

I don't know what you do and what you physically derive from your job and how you equate it to the basic so called building blocks that make up your experiments.
Maybe you can enlighten me so we know what we are up against in terms of acceptance and doing without full realisation or whether physical proof is right there in front of your face as to the reality of what and how you do what you do.
Or is it top secret like many on here?



Quote from: sobchak
  I am hopeful the current move toward Open Science is at least a step in the right direction to allow people to rethink this perception.
Science has always been open to everyone. the major issue that is argued, is about pseudo-science that is fully closed off, physically to everyone except those who are in the " need to know" category, kind of thing.


Quote from: sobchak

Sure, you think I believe in silly things and vice versa.  I have no problem with that, people believe in all sorts of things that I believe are silly, and thankfully it doesn't stop me from talking to them or trying to relate.
Yep we can all be duped. We can all be made to believe in all kinds of things that may not be what they are when allowed the opportunity to deeply think about then without the presence of peer pressure to scupper it.

Quote from: sobchak

The difference here is that I am not trying to get you to accept the Mars rover, or Newtonian Mechanics, or a gravity driven heliocentric model of the solar system.  You are completely free to picture the world as you want, it can be controlled by unseen deities, a living planetary system to worship, or even a domed cell warmed by a giant crystal somewhere up at the North pole, possibly at Santa’s workshop – it doesn't matter, I have no interest in changing your mind to the conceptual models I use to think about the world around me.
You may not be getting me to accept anything but you're here for a purpose.
If that purpose is to legitimately enhance your perception of life and not to push a narrative then good luck to you.

But just remember one thing. You accept a lot of stuff based on evidence that was handed to you and accepted by you as being just that, because you observe what you've been told to observe with reasons for it.
You will argue that you do so because it has all of the mathematics/equations to back it up...and yet you fail to see why those mathematical equations can't be simply made up to just fit.



Quote from: sobchak

   But you have been doing this for years, and it seems like you are trying to get people to understand and agree with your conceptual model.  Am I wrong?
Getting people to understand how atmospheric pressure is the reality instead of gravity....yes.
the rest of my model is my own taking and my own long term thought which people are more than welcome to piece together or not, whether it makes sense to them, or not.


I argue denpressure as a simple case of any dense mass displacing atmospheric pressure will be pushed down as it resists that push above it which will determine how much mass it has by using a compressible scale plate and measurement to create a reading.
This not only destroys gravity, it destroys the globe and space and everything else that uses the silly fictional force that cannot be explained.

It cannot be explained as to what it is because to explain it would be to give the game away.
Yet people like yourself adhere to it because of a few absolutely obscure supposed tests and yet even though nobody can explain this force...it is a force and equations for this fictional force are used based on a supposed vacuum fall of 9.8m/s/s fall.

And yet when it's argued that not all objects fall at 9.8m/s after someone drops a ball in atmosphere in some strange attempt to prove it does...we then get told that 2 ohhhh, yes, because that particular object encounters ATMOSPHERIC resistance.
I could go on but you get my drift.



Quote from: sobchak

  If you genuinely dont care whether people put your model onto the fact or fiction shelf, why are you here?
Because I have opinions on a lot of stuff, including my theory of Earth.
It's a good forum to use your mind without being censored by those who don't necessarily agree with opinions.

Quote from: sobchak

 Are you just trolling for the interactions, are you trying to just convince yourself, are you bored?
Trolling gets used a lot. What is trolling? Are we all trolling?
Am I trying to convince myself?...Yes, in a way. I'm nibbling away at all kinds of theories to see what makes sense, including my own.
I eventually want to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubts as to a potential Earth set up and shape.
I believe I'm on the right lines.
I'll tell you what I used to be convinced of when at school, 100%. A globe that was spinning with a big 93 million mile sun that its light took 8 minutes to reach us and all that absolute utter hogwash.

Do you know how much I believe in that model as I've got older and had the chance to question it?


ZERO. Not even a smidgeon of a percent. Now that's got to be a major issue with it if I can go from one extreme to another after looking at it all and doing simple experiments...right?




Quote from: sobchak

 What is your motivation for doing this year after year after year if it is not to get people to reevaluate what things they have put on the fact or fiction shelf, and to take a good look at your own model in this process?
My motivation is not to allow globalists to ever change my mind and to also interact with people who have the ability to think outside of the box.
It's also to give people a voice. Give people a chance to stand fast against globalists who are hell bent on ensuring people do not get the opportunity to think for themselves.
I'm saying to those people " come in and exercise your mind. If you're not here to ridicule then you must be here to learn something different to your earlier indoctrinated belief's."
 
Quote from: sobchak

Okay, I am trying to do this.  I am putting aside physical reality and focusing on your conceptual model.  What are its foundational principles?  What logically follows from it?  I am trying to understand it well enough so eventually I can make predictions from it to compare with physical reality without needing you as a layer of interpretation.  I don't know whether this is possible yet, whether you have a clear enough idea about this concept to get me there, but I am trying, and I hope you will continue to as well.
I'll leave it entirely up to you what you want to take from anything I say.
You have the right to think what you want.
I'll try and explain but I'll do it my way.
If my way of explaining does not help you and you can't think of a way to get me to explain better, then I can't do anything else on that matter and you'll have to take away anything or nothing from me.

You won't be the first nor the last.
I know some people have taken a lot of things from what I've said.
They understand what I've said even if they do not necessarily agree with it.

How many grasp it against the masses that don't, is down to the individual and their ability to want to think on my lines.
I never said it would be easy , I just said it was simple for me.

 
Quote from: sobchak

I am doing this because I like trying to think about the world in different ways, using different frameworks to challenge my thinking.   But you should know that at the end of the day I still watch the sunset drop behind the horizon, and unless you can at explain simple, everyday phenomena like this, no one is going to find the path to the truth you think is out there.
All you can do is explore everything, even the stuff you once thought was ridiculous.
The mere mention of a flat Earth for instance will get people running for cover or bring out the immediate screams of "loony"...
The problem is, many that do this have no clue why they're doing it except to understand that it's the in thing to do because of exposure to it by mainstream media and what they term it as being.
If a person looks at it in that way then exploring stuff is not high on their agenda...right?
 

Quote from: sobchak

One more note, Sceptimatic.   I have a suggestion, my assumption is you will ignore it or say it is worthless, but I feel it would be remiss to not tell you -

Learn mathematics

It is possible.  It might not be easy, but it is worth the effort.  Every time you talk about “silly equations” that “no one understands”, you peg yourself as completely ignorant about some of the most basic tools of science.  Arguing from a place of ignorance says a lot about people, and I agree with your criticism of people who bash your conceptual model without at least taking the time to understand it.   The truth is a lot of people understand these equations, even if you dont.   We understand them fully, and these equations are a wonderful tool to unambiguously describe relationships in the physical world. 

Learn mathematics Sceptimatic, if only to argue from a place of understanding instead of ignorance.
Learning mathematics is fine. It just depends on what mathematics are being learnt and what for.

If the maths have a practical use that work then they're worth using. I have no issues with it.
If I want to build something I will use what is necessary to accurately do that, using whatever maths is required.

Do I need it for arguing my points?
I don't think I do. It's a thinking process first and an understanding by those that are capable of doing so.
From there it only takes a minimum effort of mathematics to see a bigger picture.

If you're a mathematical genius then great. Let me tell you something.
Inventions are not thought up based on mathematics, initially.
Only after you commit it to paper and then build it do you need to go down that avenue.
Which I obviously know.
However, it has to be real and a lot of equations bandied about in the so called science world are made up nonsense designed to never be solved because they're unsolvable due to them depicting nothing.

E=MC2 is a prime example.

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JackBlack

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3477 on: January 25, 2019, 03:28:55 AM »
ZERO. Not even a smidgeon of a percent. Now that's got to be a major issue with it if I can go from one extreme to another after looking at it all and doing simple experiments...right?
Nope. Not in the slightest. That shows a complete lack of understanding on your part, either due to an inability to understand or you not being willing to understand.
You are yet to present a single experiment which shows it to be wrong. So these experiments are just excuses for you to dismiss it.
If it really had such major issues, billions of people would have rejected it and it wouldn't still be taught in schools.

My motivation is not to allow globalists to ever change my mind
Thanks for admitting you don't care about the truth at all.
If you did care, you wouldn't be opposed to people changing your mind.

I am fine with you changing my mind, if you can actually back up your claims.

stand fast against globalists who are hell bent on ensuring people do not get the opportunity to think for themselves.
I'm saying to those people " come in and exercise your mind.
And then when they do you call them indoctrinated. You want to pretend you encourage people to think, while going off at those who do. You don't want people to think. You just want them to accept your nonsense.

How many grasp it against the masses that don't
The masses seem to grasp it fairly well, and reject it.
That does't mean they don't understand.
That means they do understand and think it is wrong.

But you seem to just dismiss them as not understanding.

Do I need it for arguing my points?
If you want to present it as a useful alternative to mainstream models, YES!
That is because the mainstream models are used to predict things.
If you want to rigorously test it to see if it is valid, YES!.
That is because you can test the predictions it makes.

E=MC2 is a prime example.
You mean something which has been shown to be real via nuclear reactions?
So yes, that is a prime example of math validating scientific hypotheses.


Now again, what is the most basic part of your model, things falling or the atmosphere stacking?
Pick one and explain it.

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sobchak

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3478 on: January 25, 2019, 03:34:21 AM »
Thanks for the response and the above opinion.   Being in active research, my experiences do not match at all the above, so I'm obviously (and I hope you would say understandably) going to take my own physical reality as a framework and use that to come to a drastically differing opinion.  Thanks for sharing though, I think it is important to realize how people outside of science and science training see the institutions as closed and controlled.

I don't know what you do and what you physically derive from your job and how you equate it to the basic so called building blocks that make up your experiments.
Maybe you can enlighten me so we know what we are up against in terms of acceptance and doing without full realisation or whether physical proof is right there in front of your face as to the reality of what and how you do what you do.
Or is it top secret like many on here?

Certainly not top secret.  I am a research scientist, primarily working in biophysics.  I do research mostly at the interface between experimental science done at the molecular and cellular levels, and corresponding mathematical descriptions of biophysical systems solved computationally.  I also have occasional sojourns into more clinical and industrial applications.

How about you?  What is your background and current gig?  Are you allowed to say or would this compromise your safety from the controlling powers of the world?   ;)

Quote from: sceptimatic

But just remember one thing. You accept a lot of stuff based on evidence that was handed to you and accepted by you as being just that, because you observe what you've been told to observe with reasons for it.
You will argue that you do so because it has all of the mathematics/equations to back it up...and yet you fail to see why those mathematical equations can't be simply made up to just fit.

You are right, I have so far failed to see how these mathematical equations could be simply made up to just fit. 
Show me though, and I will have seen it.  Fair enough?   


Quote from: sceptimatic
Getting people to understand how atmospheric pressure is the reality instead of gravity....yes.

I argue denpressure as a simple case of any dense mass displacing atmospheric pressure will be pushed down as it resists that push above it which will determine how much mass it has by using a compressible scale plate and measurement to create a reading.
This not only destroys gravity, it destroys the globe and space and everything else that uses the silly fictional force that cannot be explained.

So you think if you can get people to see this, it could start a chain that will break them free from the indoctrination? 

This gets back to my question earlier of why someone should use one conceptual model over another.  Why should we overlay some framework over our physical senses and reject another? In your case, you want people to reject gravity and accept denpressure.    What do you think, if confronted with two models describing some phenomena, what rational basis would you use to choose one over the other?

Quote from: sceptimatic
Am I trying to convince myself?...Yes, in a way. I'm nibbling away at all kinds of theories to see what makes sense, including my own.
I eventually want to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubts as to a potential Earth set up and shape.
I believe I'm on the right lines.
I'll tell you what I used to be convinced of when at school, 100%. A globe that was spinning with a big 93 million mile sun that its light took 8 minutes to reach us and all that absolute utter hogwash.

Do you know how much I believe in that model as I've got older and had the chance to question it?

ZERO. Not even a smidgeon of a percent. Now that's got to be a major issue with it if I can go from one extreme to another after looking at it all and doing simple experiments...right?

Not really such a major issue, people go from extreme to extreme for any number of reasons, and they do it all the time.  Someone might all of a sudden totally believe in the Christian God, or Ghosts, or Big Foot, based simply on "looking at it all and doing simple experiments".  Such claims are completely non compelling in my opinion. 

What would be really cool though, is if you could take someone else, and guide them through these experiments and logical lines of thought that took you away from this belief, and recreate this change in perspective.  Alas, I don't see you having done this.  Your voyage has been personal, not shared, so it seems just like a change of belief, something that happens all the time and is completely normal in normal people like yourself. It may be completely special to you, and just like for the person who 'finds god', Im happy that you have 'found' something in your life that gives you such passion and energy, but if you can not recreate the rational pathway in a way someone can follow, it will just remain your own personal truth. 

Quote from: sceptimatic
However, it has to be real and a lot of equations bandied about in the so called science world are made up nonsense designed to never be solved because they're unsolvable due to them depicting nothing.

One of the biggest common mistakes of non experts is to assume their own personal ignorance is universal.  I hope you can do better than this, but I understand you probably dont care at all. 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 04:11:10 AM by sobchak »

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wise

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #3479 on: January 25, 2019, 03:34:39 AM »

Thanks for admitting you don't care about the truth at all.
If you did care, you wouldn't be opposed to people changing your mind.


He did not said he does not care. You're saying lie.

I am fine with you changing my mind, if you can actually back up your claims.


Glad to see you change your mind about being evil.


And then when they do you call them indoctrinated. You want to pretend you encourage people to think, while going off at those who do. You don't want people to think. You just want them to accept your nonsense.


Nope. He tries people agree the truth but you're manipulating the truth.

The masses seem to grasp it fairly well, and reject it.


No they don't seem like this.

That does't mean they don't understand.


It means they don't understand. Doesn't means they are your clones and one.

That means they do understand and think it is wrong.


Nope. That means they do not understand.

But you seem to just dismiss them as not understanding.


He understands them more than as well as you can understand.

Your turn. 8)
He (somebody) is a troll homo playing role of girl.

(Look at the date)

WERERPC LEVEL2

DAY 1 ENDS IN (ESTIMATED):