Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:45:39 PM

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 03:42:07 PM

That's how people use a vacuum pump. You need a valve to stop air coming back into the bell jar, same as a vacuum desiccator. A vacuum flask does not require a valve.

Chemistry lab 101

Tell me how you get the air out of a glass bell jar.
Explain exactly what happens in order for the bell jar to become lowered in pressure.

Standard science, please look it up and provide a link if you disagree.

Are people like yourself and Sokarul incapable of actually explaining anything from your own heads without using the old " look it up" nonsense?

Quote from: Notsoskeptical

Deflection.

Things going up having nothing to do with why they fall down.


Explain using your own words.  Don't say I need to understand how things go up.  Why do things fall DOWN?

No deflection at all.

For anything to fall it has to be raised. It takes energy to raise it.
Whatever object is raised that object is compressing atmosphere by it's own dense mass and that atmosphere exerts and equal and opposite pressure to the dense mass.

Wrong.  I can go to the Grand Canyon and chip away a rock from the sidewalls of the Canyon and it will fall down.  I used no energy to raise it up.  The canyon was not always there, the Colorado River used to be at the top and through millions of years of erosion created the Grand Canyon.

So why do things fall DOWN?

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:24:40 PM

Quote from: Notsoskeptical

Deflection.

Things going up having nothing to do with why they fall down.


Explain using your own words.  Don't say I need to understand how things go up.  Why do things fall DOWN?

No deflection at all.

For anything to fall it has to be raised. It takes energy to raise it.
Whatever object is raised that object is compressing atmosphere by it's own dense mass and that atmosphere exerts and equal and opposite pressure to the dense mass.

That mass becomes more dense than the atmosphere below it trying to resist it or compress it up because the atmosphere above is doing the very same in compressing it down.
The atmosphere above overcomes the atmosphere below in pushing the mass back to a foundation unless the below atmosphere can resist it.

A hot air balloon is a classic example of that resistance.

To get a better idea just think of a sink full of water with the plug in. Think of the water being the mass and the above air obviously above the water in that sink.
Underneath that plug to the U bend is also air but not enough to resist the air above except for the aid of a plug.
Try and remove that plug and you find out what pressure is on it. That's the pressure of atmosphere pushing that dense mass.


That's what's happening with your object placed into it. It's getting pushed down.

Wrong.  I can go to the Grand Canyon and chip away a rock from the sidewalls of the Canyon and it will fall down.  The grand canyon was not always there, the Colorado River used to be at the top and through millions of years of erosion created the Grand Canyon.  So tell me again how I have to move something up for it to fall?

It doesn't matter what used to be there. It's what's there at the time.
If you chip a rock from the grand canyon then all you're doing is shipping away a rock that was part of a bigger rock displacing the atmosphere and now you're holding that rock which is still displacing it's own dense mass of atmosphere.
There's more atmosphere above than below aided by that dense mass overcoming that resistance below.

 

What they do agree with me about or are interested in, is my experiments and the thought process of a lot of it.

You may have covered this somewhere in the previous 98 pages, but what experiments have you performed?

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on January 07, 2019, 03:59:27 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:24:40 PM

Quote from: Notsoskeptical

Deflection.

Things going up having nothing to do with why they fall down.


Explain using your own words.  Don't say I need to understand how things go up.  Why do things fall DOWN?

No deflection at all.

For anything to fall it has to be raised. It takes energy to raise it.
Whatever object is raised that object is compressing atmosphere by it's own dense mass and that atmosphere exerts and equal and opposite pressure to the dense mass.

That mass becomes more dense than the atmosphere below it trying to resist it or compress it up because the atmosphere above is doing the very same in compressing it down.
The atmosphere above overcomes the atmosphere below in pushing the mass back to a foundation unless the below atmosphere can resist it.

A hot air balloon is a classic example of that resistance.

To get a better idea just think of a sink full of water with the plug in. Think of the water being the mass and the above air obviously above the water in that sink.
Underneath that plug to the U bend is also air but not enough to resist the air above except for the aid of a plug.
Try and remove that plug and you find out what pressure is on it. That's the pressure of atmosphere pushing that dense mass.


That's what's happening with your object placed into it. It's getting pushed down.

Wrong.  I can go to the Grand Canyon and chip away a rock from the sidewalls of the Canyon and it will fall down.  The grand canyon was not always there, the Colorado River used to be at the top and through millions of years of erosion created the Grand Canyon.  So tell me again how I have to move something up for it to fall?

It doesn't matter what used to be there. It's what's there at the time.
If you chip a rock from the grand canyon then all you're doing is shipping away a rock that was part of a bigger rock displacing the atmosphere and now you're holding that rock which is still displacing it's own dense mass of atmosphere.
There's more atmosphere above than below aided by that dense mass overcoming that resistance below.

So your foundation is relative.  So if I take a rock that at that moment in time is above my head, why doesn't it go back to it's foundation when I use energy to lower it.

And why is the direction it falls down?  You haven't given any explanation of why the direction is down and not any other arbitrary direction.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:53:42 PM

What they do agree with me about or are interested in, is my experiments and the thought process of a lot of it.

You may have covered this somewhere in the previous 98 pages, but what experiments have you performed?

Various. One experiment which I've put out many times is the one which destroys centrifugal/centripetal force is so called space.

Also how low pressure starts to freeze everything by not allowing molecules to vibrate under compressive friction.

And so on.

I'm not going to get bogged down with it all and up against the nah nah brigade.
By all means look it all up or tell me why you believe it works and also tell me how you believe a so called vacuum pump works to make a low pressure bell jar freeze water or allow a balloon to inflate.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain it from their own mind from start to finish from what the pump actually does from their thought process.

People seem to be skirting around it and if people want to understand my side they need to understand the absolute basics.

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 03:42:07 PM

That's how people use a vacuum pump. You need a valve to stop air coming back into the bell jar, same as a vacuum desiccator. A vacuum flask does not require a valve.

Chemistry lab 101

Tell me how you get the air out of a glass bell jar.
Explain exactly what happens in order for the bell jar to become lowered in pressure.

Create an airtight path from the bell jar to the elliptical chamber in the vacuum pump.
Turn pump on.
Air moves from high pressure to low pressure so it flows into the pump and then is forced out the exhaust.
As you remove air you lower pressure.

100!!!!!

So your foundation is relative.  So if I take a rock that at that moment in time is above my head, why doesn't it go back to it's foundation when I use energy to lower it.

Can you elaborate on this. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

And why is the direction it falls down?  You haven't given any explanation of why the direction is down and not any other arbitrary direction.

It's down to squeeze.
Like the ocean.
You sink or float on an ocean because the water crushes you up or down.
What pushes you down is the atmosphere above.
But if you also hold atmosphere then the ocean cannot crush you down because you are buoyant meaning the air above cannot overcome the dense water with a dense object (you) that is full of air.

However, if you were to squeeze that air out you would be pushed down and crushed down from the water hitting all sides of you.

However a hot air balloon can change all that in atmosphere. It gets crushed up and can also be pushed around in the atmospheric whirlpool whenever low and high pressure atmosphere interact.

Challenge accepted.

Vacum pump works the same as this analogy.
You like analogys.
Simple and basic.
Keep with the basics and see things from our perspective.
But it uses numbers so may confuse you.

But lets try.
Simply Youre in a room on one side.
Basically Opposite side os a door.
You can simply start with 1 step equal half the room.
Every basic step afterwards is half of the previous step towards the door.
Each step gets smaller and smaller.
Will you ever reach the door?

The simple pump allows air molecules in the inner chamber volume to be removed in ever incrementally partial steps.
There is a one way valve preventing outside air from rushing back in.
Why you keep asking how it works?

You cant even answer how your model works.
Pg100.
How do you breathe?
Molecules that expand and gobstopper would have a hellofatime in your lungs.
Weight of objects unaffected by being in pressure isolated vessels.

The real world is not under contention.
I know air conditioning works.
In repeatable and ever improving designs.

Quit redherring with pumps.
Answer up.

Quote from: Stash on January 07, 2019, 04:09:53 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:53:42 PM

What they do agree with me about or are interested in, is my experiments and the thought process of a lot of it.

You may have covered this somewhere in the previous 98 pages, but what experiments have you performed?

Various. One experiment which I've put out many times is the one which destroys centrifugal/centripetal force is so called space.

Also how low pressure starts to freeze everything by not allowing molecules to vibrate under compressive friction.

And so on.

I searched. I couldn't find any actually experiments, just a lot of references to "thought" experiments. Is the latter what you mean by experiments?

It's down to squeeze.
Like the ocean.
You sink or float on an ocean because the water crushes you up or down.

And that simply depends on whether your weight is more or less than the weight of the water you displace - and that weight is caused by gravity!

What pushes you down is the atmosphere above.

No! The push of the atmosphere pushing you down is more than balanced by the the atmosphere below you pushing you up.
The pressure in a fluid (a gas or liquid) always causes a force at right angles (normal) to the surface the fluid impinge on.
The nett force is pushing any body (yours included) up by the weight of the fluid (including air) displaced.

Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a fluid, is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object.

Archimedes worked that out around 250 BC so I fail to see why someone as smart as you can't grasp it in 2019.

But if you also hold atmosphere then the ocean cannot crush you down because you are buoyant meaning the air above cannot overcome the dense water with a dense object (you) that is full of air.

However, if you were to squeeze that air out you would be pushed down and crushed down from the water hitting all sides of you.

However a hot air balloon can change all that in atmosphere. It gets crushed up and can also be pushed around in the atmospheric whirlpool whenever low and high pressure atmosphere interact.

And that hot air balloon experiences exactly the same buoyancy described earlier but its weight is less than the weight of displaced air, so it floats.

How do you like this "Barge floating in air "? It's not really air, of course.

Floating Metal On Deep Voice Gas (SF6)

Not a perfect vacuum is not a vacuum.

No, it still is. It just isn't perfect.

Lower pressure is the best that can be hoped for.

i.e. a vacuum.

All pumps no matter what, either compress external atmosphere into a container or they compress external atmosphere to allow expansion of internal air from the chamber.
The pump that allows evacuation does absolutely nothing to the vessel at any time.

I have just explained how they actually work. Dismissing it is not showing anything wrong with that explanation at all. You continuing to assert nonsense doesn't help your case at all.

Your explanation is pure nonsense. You have no justification for why these 2 pumps work in drastically different ways, where one compresses the inlet but the other compresses the outlet. It makes no sense at all, especially when you realise the 2 pumps are effectively identical in construction.

In reality, pumps don't work anything like you claim.
They work by generating pressure gradients by compressing or expanding a pocket of gas inside.
It compresses it to a greater pressure than that at the outlet, allowing the air to leave the pump. It expands it to a lower pressure than at the inlet, allowing air to flow into the pump.
This applies regardless of if you are pumping from a container to lower its pressure or into a container to increase its pressure (and in fact, to really destroy your argument, you can pump from one container to another without the external atmosphere coming into play at all).

I did.

Where? I am yet to see it.
So far all you have done is assert that the atmosphere magically pushes it down with no justification at all.

For anything to fall it has to be raised.

Not really. Hypothetically an object can start out in the air and fall. There is no need to be raised first.

Sure, you can argue that everything started on the ground and thus it has already been raised, but that doesn't get you any closer.
The same arbitrary nonsense can be said for moving left and right.
In order for something to go left, it must first go right, or vice versa, and it takes energy to move it left or right.

Whatever object is raised that object is compressing atmosphere by it's own dense mass and that atmosphere exerts and equal and opposite pressure to the dense mass.

No it doesn't.
It "compresses atmosphere" by existing. It doesn't magically compress more when you move it up.

That mass becomes more dense

No, it doesn't become more dense. It already is.
But who cares? Being more dense doesn't give a reason to fall.

the atmosphere below it trying to resist it or compress it up because the atmosphere above is doing the very same in compressing it down.

Which means no net motion.

The atmosphere above overcomes the atmosphere below in pushing the mass back to a foundation unless the below atmosphere can resist it.

HOW?
All the evidence indicates that the pressure is basically the same with a slight increase in pressure the lower you are.
This means the atmosphere below can resist it and there is no reason at all for it to be pushed down.

Try and remove that plug and you find out what pressure is on it. That's the pressure of atmosphere pushing that dense mass.

No, that is the pressure of the water, not the atmosphere. (or more technically the pressure gradient created by the water).
Do it in a very shallow amount of water and you find no significant pressure.

More importantly, we can show that this gradient doesn't have this magic directionality you need. If you instead have the plug mounted sideways, you get the same result, with the water forcing the plug into the hole with the atmosphere on the other side not at a high enough pressure to push it back, so you need to apply a significant force to remove the plug. But again, use shallow water, that pressure gradient is no longer anywhere near as large and it is much easier to remove the plug.

With an appropriate setup you can go one step further. Instead of having a simple tub, you can have an L shaped container. This can have an opening at the top of the L, and an opening on the top of the horizontal opening.
put a plug from inside to outside on the lower hole. This is now needing to be pushed upwards to remain closed. Fill the L with water, holding the plug in place while it is being filled. Once full, the plug will be held by the pressure gradient between the water and the atmosphere.
So now you have the pressure pushing upwards.

Notice how it doesn't magically just push downwards like you need it to? Instead it pushes in all directions?

That's what's happening with your object placed into it. It's getting pushed down.

Not in the slightest. You have the water creating a pressure gradient and pushing into the plug. It does not magically push down.
So this doesn't explain why things fall in the slightest.
The closest this gets to is setting up the basis for buoyancy where the pressure gradient pushes things upwards.

Are people like yourself and Sokarul incapable of actually explaining anything from your own heads without using the old " look it up" nonsense?

Why should they bother? They saw what you did when I explained it.

There's more atmosphere above than below aided by that dense mass overcoming that resistance below.

If you are going to appeal to more atmosphere above then you need to deal with enclosed vessels, where there can be more air below an object, yet it still falls. So that clearly isn't relevant at all, other than to show it is wrong.

One experiment which I've put out many times is the one which destroys centrifugal/centripetal force is so called space.

Except you were completely unable to refute anything with that experiment.

Also how low pressure starts to freeze everything by not allowing molecules to vibrate under compressive friction.

That would be high pressure creating friction.
Low pressure would reduce the friction.
Low pressure typically "freezes" things due to evaporative cooling.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain it from their own mind from start to finish from what the pump actually does from their thought process.

No you aren't. I already did that.

You sink or float on an ocean because the water crushes you up or down.

Nope.
The water never pushes you down unless you are holding it in a container above you, or it is flowing down.
It will try to crush you from the pressure, and push you up from the pressure gradient. But it never pushes down.
In order for it to push down it needs an inverted pressure gradient.
You sink because of your weight, something you are yet to explain in your model.
Your model would be vastly better off with just a magic downwards force.

Now, for once can you explain why things fall down, specifically down and not any other direction.

I searched. I couldn't find any actually experiments, just a lot of references to "thought" experiments. Is the latter what you mean by experiments?

I believe the experiment he is referring to is where he put a few objects in a dish and spun it.
I can't find the exact post, but from looking at some mentions of it, it seems in air the objects stayed in the dish and were forced to the edge.
When done in a vacuum, the objects where ejected from the dish.
While the result is not identical, it conclusively proves the centrifugal force is real and would work in space. If it wasn't, the objects wouldn't have flown out of the dish.

Also, while looking for it I found these:

Until you can keep a set mph going after all the jolting and jerking through the gears to decelerate and the accelerate once again.....only then will you be able to hit a constant velocity or a set mph.

I'm not arguing about what jerk is in itself. I'm simply telling you that jerk immediately shuts down acceleration to deceleration before acceleration begins again.
...
Acceleration will always be acceleration until it becomes something other than, like deceleration or a constant velocity.
...
Acceleration is fine and acceleration easing to decelerating easing and back to accelerating easing is also fine.
...
If you cease to accelerate you either become constant with a set applied energy or you decelerate by release of it.

So it sure seems like Scepti at least used to accept deceleration as a word with meaning, where it is slowing down.

(This was back when he was arguing that acceleration can't change, nor can it be constant).

Quote from: markjo on December 14, 2018, 08:03:16 PM

A better question would be what experiments have you done to support denpressure?

Vacuum tests and atmospheric tests. Simple stuff like I've explained many times before.

Tell me more.

Challenge accepted.

Vacum pump works the same as this analogy.
You like analogys.
Simple and basic.
Keep with the basics and see things from our perspective.
But it uses numbers so may confuse you.

But lets try.
Simply Youre in a room on one side.
Basically Opposite side os a door.
You can simply start with 1 step equal half the room.
Every basic step afterwards is half of the previous step towards the door.
Each step gets smaller and smaller.
Will you ever reach the door?

The simple pump allows air molecules in the inner chamber volume to be removed in ever incrementally partial steps.
There is a one way valve preventing outside air from rushing back in.
Why you keep asking how it works?

You cant even answer how your model works.
Pg100.
How do you breathe?
Molecules that expand and gobstopper would have a hellofatime in your lungs.
Weight of objects unaffected by being in pressure isolated vessels.

The real world is not under contention.
I know air conditioning works.
In repeatable and ever improving designs.

Quit redherring with pumps.
Answer up.

In bold.
Explain what is happening in this situation.

Explain what is happening in this situation.

I have already explained what is happening. What is the point in asking when you don't seem to care and instead just repeat your nonsense?

Now, how about you quit with the distractions and try explaining why things fall? So far every "attempt" of your has been a complete failure.

I searched. I couldn't find any actually experiments, just a lot of references to "thought" experiments. Is the latter what you mean by experiments?

All experiments are thought experiments until you actually do them.
Try them out yourself and you have ultimate proof as to what I'm saying.
Don't worry about how I do them or whether I have.
All you need to focus on, if you're interested and honest enough to try...is.... doing the experiments I put forward and follow that explanation.
What's so difficult about that?

It requires you to have the basics of stuff. A bell jar or vessel and pump for allowing the lowering of pressure.
The rest is stuff you have lying about or penny stuff.
No need to argue with me on it. Look at the experiments and do them to find your proof's.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 04:43:37 PM

It's down to squeeze.
Like the ocean.
You sink or float on an ocean because the water crushes you up or down.

And that simply depends on whether your weight is more or less than the weight of the water you displace - and that weight is caused by gravity!

Weight doesn't come into it. There's no such thing as weight in this case. It's dense mass of the object displacing atmosphere which causes that object to displace water.
It's pretty simple when you actually think about it.

Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a fluid, is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object.

Archimedes worked that out around 250 BC so I fail to see why someone as smart as you can't grasp it in 2019.

How do you like this "Barge floating in air "? It's not really air, of course.

Floating Metal On Deep Voice Gas (SF6)
[/quote]It's just a more dense gas. It might as well be water. Same thing applies as with water and atmosphere, plus object displacing it.

Quote from: Stash on January 07, 2019, 05:58:04 PM

I searched. I couldn't find any actually experiments, just a lot of references to "thought" experiments. Is the latter what you mean by experiments?

All experiments are thought experiments until you actually do them.
Try them out yourself and you have ultimate proof as to what I'm saying.
Don't worry about how I do them or whether I have.
All you need to focus on, if you're interested and honest enough to try...is.... doing the experiments I put forward and follow that explanation.
What's so difficult about that?

It requires you to have the basics of stuff. A bell jar or vessel and pump for allowing the lowering of pressure.
The rest is stuff you have lying about or penny stuff.
No need to argue with me on it. Look at the experiments and do them to find your proof's.

So what's the experiment to try and the expected outcome that shows the "ultimate proof" as to what you're saying?

Quote from: rabinoz on January 07, 2019, 06:50:06 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 04:43:37 PM

It's down to squeeze.
Like the ocean.
You sink or float on an ocean because the water crushes you up or down.

And that simply depends on whether your weight is more or less than the weight of the water you displace - and that weight is caused by gravity!

Weight doesn't come into it. There's no such thing as weight in this case. It's dense mass of the object displacing atmosphere which causes that object to displace water.
It's pretty simple when you actually think about it.

Quote from: rabinoz

Quote from: In On Floating Bodies, Archimedes suggested that (c. 250 BC):

Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a fluid, is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object.

Archimedes worked that out around 250 BC so I fail to see why someone as smart as you can't grasp it in 2019.

How do you like this "Barge floating in air "? It's not really air, of course.

Floating Metal On Deep Voice Gas (SF6)

It's just a more dense gas. It might as well be water. Same thing applies as with water and atmosphere, plus object displacing it.

Have it your own way but maybe you could do a simple calculation. If you threw a baseball vertically (or very nearly so) at 20 m/s how high would it reach?
And how would you go about calculating the lift on an aeroplane wing? Quite a number of people have to do that.

Hello Sceptimatic,

Completely new here, but have really enjoyed this thread.  I have read and tried to follow all the discussion so far, but am still unable to understand the directionality of your model, i.e. why things go down under denpressure.  Many others also seem unable to figure this out as well.  I know you have tried to explain it a number of times already, but as you seem actually interested in others trying to understand your model, I wonder if you could try one more time, slowly and step by step, so I can see if I can grasp the thinking of your view?

Quote from: inquisitive on January 07, 2019, 03:53:45 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:45:39 PM

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 03:42:07 PM

That's how people use a vacuum pump. You need a valve to stop air coming back into the bell jar, same as a vacuum desiccator. A vacuum flask does not require a valve.

Chemistry lab 101

Tell me how you get the air out of a glass bell jar.
Explain exactly what happens in order for the bell jar to become lowered in pressure.

Standard science, please look it up and provide a link if you disagree.

Are people like yourself and Sokarul incapable of actually explaining anything from your own heads without using the old " look it up" noqnsense?

Why are you obsessed with wanting random people here to describe things for you to reject when the information is published?

Quote from: rabinoz on January 07, 2019, 06:50:06 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 04:43:37 PM

It's down to squeeze.
Like the ocean.
You sink or float on an ocean because the water crushes you up or down.

And that simply depends on whether your weight is more or less than the weight of the water you displace - and that weight is caused by gravity!

Weight doesn't come into it. There's no such thing as weight in this case. It's dense mass of the object displacing atmosphere which causes that object to displace water.
It's pretty simple when you actually think about it.

Quote from: In On Floating Bodies, Archimedes suggested that (c. 250 BC):

Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a fluid, is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object.

Archimedes worked that out around 250 BC so I fail to see why someone as smart as you can't grasp it in 2019.

How do you like this "Barge floating in air "? It's not really air, of course.

Floating Metal On Deep Voice Gas (SF6)

It's just a more dense gas. It might as well be water. Same thing applies as with water and atmosphere, plus object displacing it.
[/quote]What is the significance of the word dense in dense mass that you use?  Things do not displace atmosphere, they exist in it.

Try them out yourself and you have ultimate proof as to what I'm saying.

And they prove you are wrong.
Your model is completely unable to explain the observed results.
Of course this isn't really surprising given it can't even explain why things fall.

Weight doesn't come into it.

No, it does. If it didn't an object would just fly straight up, quite quickly.
You not liking weight does it magically doesn't exist.

It's dense mass of the object displacing atmosphere which causes that object to displace water.

No, it displaces the water, not the atmosphere. That is because it is in the water, not the atmosphere.

It's pretty simple when you actually think about it.

Yes, and when you actually think about it, you realise your claims are pure nonsense.

It's just a more dense gas. It might as well be water. Same thing applies as with water and atmosphere, plus object displacing it.

Yes, some thing applies. Displacing the fluid results in an upwards force due to the pressure gradient.
No magic downwards force from the air.

Now, can you explain why things fall?

Your water analogy, when actually thought about and examined honestly, shows nothing like what you claim. It doesn't provide a magic downwards force but merely shows water creates a pressure gradient (which you don't have an explanation for in the first place) which then pushes outwards against the pressure of the atmosphere/container.

Another 100 page denpressure thread.  Well done guys!  I'm proud.   

Another 100 page denpressure thread.  Well done guys!  I'm proud.   

I'm keeping it much more compact than that. Only 60 pages for me.
But still, so many pages and he can't even explain a simple thing like why do objects fall.

He should have just stuck with the simpler FE idea of "things just fall". It would have made much more sense.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 11:19:41 PM

Explain what is happening in this situation.

I have already explained what is happening. What is the point in asking when you don't seem to care and instead just repeat your nonsense?

Now, how about you quit with the distractions and try explaining why things fall? So far every "attempt" of your has been a complete failure.

By all means view everything I say as a failure. All you're doing is cheating yourself from finding the truth in favour of indoctrinated theories/duping. In my opinion.

Have it your own way but maybe you could do a simple calculation. If you threw a baseball vertically (or very nearly so) at 20 m/s how high would it reach?
And how would you go about calculating the lift on an aeroplane wing? Quite a number of people have to do that.

I get that people like yourself like to live off numbers and calculations. I get that you always want formulas and equations to allow you to understand something.

I don 't play by those expectations. I play by my own rules. It's called basic logic and the use of experimentation from my side.
I ask you and others to use that line of thought. It appears you won't or can't seen to grasp basic stuff. Maybe things don't mean anything unless it's made so complicated where it's meaningless if you don't have calculations to make.

Hello Sceptimatic,

Completely new here, but have really enjoyed this thread.  I have read and tried to follow all the discussion so far, but am still unable to understand the directionality of your model, i.e. why things go down under denpressure.  Many others also seem unable to figure this out as well.  I know you have tried to explain it a number of times already, but as you seem actually interested in others trying to understand your model, I wonder if you could try one more time, slowly and step by step, so I can see if I can grasp the thinking of your view?

It's all there so if you can't grasp it then reject it as nonsense.

It seems pretty clear to me but then again It's my theory.
Try and get gravity out of your head and then you might have a chance, because gravity is the biggest load of nonsense along with plenty of other nonsense relating to a so called globe and so called space.

Here's something for you. Why do things fall on your Earth? Why down?