Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

things fall down due to external atmospheric push or crush or something...

but for some reason, when isolated inside a pressure vessel, and clearly shown to be of different pressure, the outside push is still relevant.
why is that?

I've just explained it with the lead block. Pay attention.

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 01:21:00 PM

I can say with 100% certainty that vacuum pumps work.

No such thing as a vacuum pump.

If you believe there is then you need to describe exactly what it does. Don't just say it does this and that if you can't explain why.

Vacuum Pumps

yes, they exist.

They move air out.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 01:23:06 PM

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 01:21:00 PM

I can say with 100% certainty that vacuum pumps work.

No such thing as a vacuum pump.

If you believe there is then you need to describe exactly what it does. Don't just say it does this and that if you can't explain why.

Vacuum Pumps

yes, they exist.

They move air out.

Explain in your own words what happens. Don't just say they move air out. Tell me how they move the air out.
Explain it.

The one I use has an elliptical chamber. A cylinder with 4 keys(I guess you could call them) sits offset in it. The keys spin out and hit the wall of the chamber, making another chamber inside the ellipse chamber. This new chamber has air trapped and moves it to an exhaust port. The created chamber's volume shrinks to basically zero to force the air out. The cycle is repeated 4 times per revolution.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 05, 2019, 03:16:31 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 04, 2019, 08:22:35 PM

Aaah ok
I concede.
Whne i said atmosphere I meant outside atmophere.

So we can try again.

Pressure vessel has Outside air is separated from inside air.
Outside air and inside air can be set at different pressures.
Outside Air pressure is what causes weight.
Will a lead block inside the vessel weigh the same as when outside?
Yes/ no?

How long is a piece of string?

We are looking at strange ways and means with this carry on.
What you have to understand is the actual lead block itself in already taking up natural atmospheric pressure regardless.
It's already displacing it's own dense mass of atmosphere whether outside or inside a vessel.

So basically placing it inside the vessel raises the pressure of the vessel by the dense mass of the lead block displacing that atmosphere inside.
If that vessel is open then the dense mass of lead can push that atmosphere and compress it towards the breach in the vessel, but remember the word, COMPRESS.

Evacuation via pump allows decompression but it becomes much more difficult to do against a mass block already compressing.


I'll make this easier.
Imagine that lead block inside the vessel under water. It manages to displace it's own dense mass of water from the vessel but that water is added pressure back into the breach of that vessel.

pUmping against that added pressure does the job of holding back that extra pressure but still leaves the water pressure still in that vessel from which the lead block is in and clamped under.

Similar situation. Not as easy as simply just supposedly sucking out some air or water. It's an impossibility to do as I've explained.
It's pushing the mass of air/water back to allow decompression under normal circumstances but in the case of a dense mass added in, it changes to decompressing the dense mass compression before anything else. and that means it's much more difficult to allow evacuation against atmosphere under that situation.

sorry
didn't see any sort of any explanation here.

if the experiments had TWO weigh scales.
one INSIDE the vessel and one OUTSIDE the vessel.

the OUTSIDE vessel scale would show the whole sum of the vessel as a complete unit.
Agreed.

the INSIDE vessel scale which was the whole point of specifically mentioning the INSIDE vessel in the initial experiment.
The INSIDE vessel would see a removal of air pressure.
that very same air pressure which you claim is the crushing force that causes weight.
you need to isolate your variables.

do the two scales show the same weight regardless of measured pressure?

of course apologees if this item was overshadowed.
but it was itemized several times.

empty space...



must be fake news...
if only there were a way to replicate these impossible experiements.

The one I use has an elliptical chamber. A cylinder with 4 keys(I guess you could call them) sits offset in it. The keys spin out and hit the wall of the chamber, making another chamber inside the ellipse chamber. This new chamber has air trapped and moves it to an exhaust port. The created chamber's volume shrinks to basically zero to force the air out. The cycle is repeated 4 times per revolution.

How about explaining how you would make your so called vacuum in a bell jar by using your pump.
Explain what's happening.

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 02:23:44 PM

The one I use has an elliptical chamber. A cylinder with 4 keys(I guess you could call them) sits offset in it. The keys spin out and hit the wall of the chamber, making another chamber inside the ellipse chamber. This new chamber has air trapped and moves it to an exhaust port. The created chamber's volume shrinks to basically zero to force the air out. The cycle is repeated 4 times per revolution.

How about explaining how you would make your so called vacuum in a bell jar by using your pump.
Explain what's happening.

quit trolling.
go and do it or watch the video and then explain why it's a nasa conspiracy.

if the experiments had TWO weigh scales.
one INSIDE the vessel and one OUTSIDE the vessel.

the OUTSIDE vessel scale would show the whole sum of the vessel as a complete unit.
Agreed.

Let's assume you mean the entire vessel and foundation with a set of scales inside are all sat on a set of scales in normal atmosphere.

Fair enough? I'm sure this is what you mean.

the INSIDE vessel scale which was the whole point of specifically mentioning the INSIDE vessel in the initial experiment.
The INSIDE vessel would see a removal of air pressure.
that very same air pressure which you claim is the crushing force that causes weight.
you need to isolate your variables.

do the two scales show the same weight regardless of measured pressure?

You will transfer the pressure from inside to outside.
You will transfer the pressure from the internal scales that's already displacing the internal air and compressing it and this air would have to be allowed outside but then it would cause issues with the actual scale plate inside and also the scale plate externally, likely altering them a little bit.

Action/reaction in equal terms, always.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 02:42:49 PM

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 02:23:44 PM

The one I use has an elliptical chamber. A cylinder with 4 keys(I guess you could call them) sits offset in it. The keys spin out and hit the wall of the chamber, making another chamber inside the ellipse chamber. This new chamber has air trapped and moves it to an exhaust port. The created chamber's volume shrinks to basically zero to force the air out. The cycle is repeated 4 times per revolution.

How about explaining how you would make your so called vacuum in a bell jar by using your pump.
Explain what's happening.

quit trolling.
go and do it or watch the video and then explain why it's a nasa conspiracy.

It scares you that you can't understand how an evacuation of a vessel happens. This is why you use troll and try ridicule. It's because you are stumped.
I've even tried to help you but you're too far gone.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 07, 2019, 02:55:30 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 02:42:49 PM

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 02:23:44 PM

The one I use has an elliptical chamber. A cylinder with 4 keys(I guess you could call them) sits offset in it. The keys spin out and hit the wall of the chamber, making another chamber inside the ellipse chamber. This new chamber has air trapped and moves it to an exhaust port. The created chamber's volume shrinks to basically zero to force the air out. The cycle is repeated 4 times per revolution.

How about explaining how you would make your so called vacuum in a bell jar by using your pump.
Explain what's happening.

quit trolling.
go and do it or watch the video and then explain why it's a nasa conspiracy.

It scares you that you can't understand how an evacuation of a vessel happens. This is why you use troll and try ridicule. It's because you are stumped.
I've even tried to help you but you're too far gone.

Your views completely differ from know and accepted science.  Have you discussed them with anyone outside this forum?

Your views completely differ from know and accepted science.  Have you discussed them with anyone outside this forum?

Only a select few.

Quote from: inquisitive on January 07, 2019, 03:03:15 PM

Your views completely differ from know and accepted science.  Have you discussed them with anyone outside this forum?

Only a select few.

And they agree with you about every detail?

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:06:32 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 07, 2019, 03:03:15 PM

Your views completely differ from know and accepted science.  Have you discussed them with anyone outside this forum?

Only a select few.

And they agree with you about every detail?

Absolutely not.

who's scared?
i have an entire hvac industry that says otherwise.
you enjoy air conditioning?

man i wish i knew how to add a photo.
ol' man kabool can't forum...

let's try ascii:

Dome
____
|    |
| B |
| X |
-----
  Y

*end of diagram
haha

the box is the pressure vessel.
the B is the block of lead.
the X is a scale placed inside the vessel and the Y is a scale placed under the whole assembly.
the pressure in the vessel is different to that of the outside atmosphere.

do both scales show the same weight even though X and the lead block is isolated from the outside?

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on January 07, 2019, 02:02:49 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 01:23:06 PM

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 01:21:00 PM

I can say with 100% certainty that vacuum pumps work.

No such thing as a vacuum pump.

If you believe there is then you need to describe exactly what it does. Don't just say it does this and that if you can't explain why.

Explain why things fall DOWN.  Don't just say it does, explain why?

I did. You have to understand why they go up to understand why they fall down.
After all they cannot fall without being raised/moved.

Deflection.

Things going up having nothing to do with why they fall down.


Explain using your own words.  Don't say I need to understand how things go up.  Why do things fall DOWN?

who's scared?
i have an entire hvac industry that says otherwise.
you enjoy air conditioning?

man i wish i knew how to add a photo.
ol' man kabool can't forum...

let's try ascii:

Dome
____
|    |
| B |
| X |
-----
  Y

*end of diagram
haha

the box is the pressure vessel.
the B is the block of lead.
the X is a scale placed inside the vessel and the Y is a scale placed under the whole assembly.
the pressure in the vessel is different to that of the outside atmosphere.

do both scales show the same weight even though X and the lead block is isolated from the outside?

The external scale will show more weight reading.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 07, 2019, 03:11:38 PM

who's scared?
i have an entire hvac industry that says otherwise.
you enjoy air conditioning?

man i wish i knew how to add a photo.
ol' man kabool can't forum...

let's try ascii:

Dome
____
|    |
| B |
| X |
-----
  Y

*end of diagram
haha

the box is the pressure vessel.
the B is the block of lead.
the X is a scale placed inside the vessel and the Y is a scale placed under the whole assembly.
the pressure in the vessel is different to that of the outside atmosphere.

do both scales show the same weight even though X and the lead block is isolated from the outside?

The external scale will show more weight reading.

No they won't.

Deflection.

Things going up having nothing to do with why they fall down.


Explain using your own words.  Don't say I need to understand how things go up.  Why do things fall DOWN?

No deflection at all.

For anything to fall it has to be raised. It takes energy to raise it.
Whatever object is raised that object is compressing atmosphere by it's own dense mass and that atmosphere exerts and equal and opposite pressure to the dense mass.

That mass becomes more dense than the atmosphere below it trying to resist it or compress it up because the atmosphere above is doing the very same in compressing it down.
The atmosphere above overcomes the atmosphere below in pushing the mass back to a foundation unless the below atmosphere can resist it.

A hot air balloon is a classic example of that resistance.

To get a better idea just think of a sink full of water with the plug in. Think of the water being the mass and the above air obviously above the water in that sink.
Underneath that plug to the U bend is also air but not enough to resist the air above except for the aid of a plug.
Try and remove that plug and you find out what pressure is on it. That's the pressure of atmosphere pushing that dense mass.


That's what's happening with your object placed into it. It's getting pushed down.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:13:51 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 07, 2019, 03:11:38 PM

who's scared?
i have an entire hvac industry that says otherwise.
you enjoy air conditioning?

man i wish i knew how to add a photo.
ol' man kabool can't forum...

let's try ascii:

Dome
____
|    |
| B |
| X |
-----
  Y

*end of diagram
haha

the box is the pressure vessel.
the B is the block of lead.
the X is a scale placed inside the vessel and the Y is a scale placed under the whole assembly.
the pressure in the vessel is different to that of the outside atmosphere.

do both scales show the same weight even though X and the lead block is isolated from the outside?

The external scale will show more weight reading.

No they won't.

Of course it will.

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 02:23:44 PM

The one I use has an elliptical chamber. A cylinder with 4 keys(I guess you could call them) sits offset in it. The keys spin out and hit the wall of the chamber, making another chamber inside the ellipse chamber. This new chamber has air trapped and moves it to an exhaust port. The created chamber's volume shrinks to basically zero to force the air out. The cycle is repeated 4 times per revolution.

How about explaining how you would make your so called vacuum in a bell jar by using your pump.
Explain what's happening.

A hose and a valve.

tared.
so it's not showing the weight of vessel or the air or anything other than the lead block...

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 02:42:49 PM

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 02:23:44 PM

The one I use has an elliptical chamber. A cylinder with 4 keys(I guess you could call them) sits offset in it. The keys spin out and hit the wall of the chamber, making another chamber inside the ellipse chamber. This new chamber has air trapped and moves it to an exhaust port. The created chamber's volume shrinks to basically zero to force the air out. The cycle is repeated 4 times per revolution.

How about explaining how you would make your so called vacuum in a bell jar by using your pump.
Explain what's happening.

A hose and a valve.

I won't ask you any more. You can't answer it because you have no clue.
If only people would take the time to actually see the reality of it.

tared.
so it's not showing the weight of vessel or the air or anything other than the lead block...

You never mentioned tared.

Explain it exactly to the absolute point using tared and tell me exactly how it's all set up just so we are crystal clear before I answer.

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 03:27:29 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 02:42:49 PM

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 02:23:44 PM

The one I use has an elliptical chamber. A cylinder with 4 keys(I guess you could call them) sits offset in it. The keys spin out and hit the wall of the chamber, making another chamber inside the ellipse chamber. This new chamber has air trapped and moves it to an exhaust port. The created chamber's volume shrinks to basically zero to force the air out. The cycle is repeated 4 times per revolution.

How about explaining how you would make your so called vacuum in a bell jar by using your pump.
Explain what's happening.

A hose and a valve.

I won't ask you any more. You can't answer it because you have no clue.
If only people would take the time to actually see the reality of it.

That's how people use a vacuum pump. You need a valve to stop air coming back into the bell jar, same as a vacuum desiccator. A vacuum flask does not require a valve.

Chemistry lab 101

Quote from: inquisitive on January 07, 2019, 03:08:30 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:06:32 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 07, 2019, 03:03:15 PM

Your views completely differ from know and accepted science.  Have you discussed them with anyone outside this forum?

Only a select few.

And they agree with you about every detail?

Absolutely not.

So nobody agrees with you, yet you continue to post here? Why?

When I raise an object the displaced or compressed atmosphere actually goes underneath it.

Does the lead block weigh different?

Hypothesis - air pressure affects weight.

With scale shown inside the pressure vessel.
And scale shown extenral.
With varying pressure.
Tared to not include weight of air or vessel and isolate just the weoght of the lead block.

That's how people use a vacuum pump. You need a valve to stop air coming back into the bell jar, same as a vacuum desiccator. A vacuum flask does not require a valve.

Chemistry lab 101

Tell me how you get the air out of a glass bell jar.
Explain exactly what happens in order for the bell jar to become lowered in pressure.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:11:34 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 07, 2019, 03:08:30 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 07, 2019, 03:06:32 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 07, 2019, 03:03:15 PM

Your views completely differ from know and accepted science.  Have you discussed them with anyone outside this forum?

Only a select few.

And they agree with you about every detail?

Absolutely not.

So nobody agrees with you, yet you continue to post here? Why?

When I raise an object the displaced atmosphere goes underneath it.

You asked if they agreed with me about EVERY detail.
I said "absolutely not" meaning they don't agree with me about EVERY detail.
What they do agree with me about or are interested in, is my experiments and the thought process of a lot of it.

It didn't happen overnight. Some are still trying to understand it and it's a slow process of them wanting to dare to alter their indoctrinated views in favour of the view of someone like myself who goes against that grain.

The fact that a few of them have been raising eye brows and shouting " ahhhhhh, oh right, I see now, it does make sense." That's when I ask them about what makes sense to them.
They will then reel off some of the stuff and show me they really do get a small grasp of it. It only requires a small grasp for the rest to start making sense.

I'm not silly enough to believe people will just accept anything I say and I leave it up to the individual, whether it's physical talk or on a forum like this.
The main thing is, it's there for anyone to peruse and think on.

A head full of figures will get a person so far with a theory/hypothesis. It doesn't tell a full story though.

Quote from: sokarul on January 07, 2019, 03:42:07 PM

That's how people use a vacuum pump. You need a valve to stop air coming back into the bell jar, same as a vacuum desiccator. A vacuum flask does not require a valve.

Chemistry lab 101

Tell me how you get the air out of a glass bell jar.
Explain exactly what happens in order for the bell jar to become lowered in pressure.

Standard science, please look it up and provide a link if you disagree.