Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 28, 2018, 04:09:07 PM

Once that jar is at equalised pressure the jar itself is displacing external atmosphere upon its external surface.
Inside the jar it is displacing the internal atmospheric air by the thickness of its glass skin.
The mass of atmosphere externally is trying to squeeze the jar but that jar can still be picked up easily by a reasonable force.
However, if you allow air inside the jar to add to the external atmosphere, it adds more compression onto the external jar and negates a push up from inside, creating a push down with more force against resistance, which leaves the jar as a much harder proposition to raise by force.

This pile of bovine excrement doesn't address a single thing I said.
Again, it is not up and down. It is in and out.
The jar and base are pressed together by the atmosphere. It doesn't magically push down.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 28, 2018, 04:09:07 PM

All you have to do is look at the magdeburg hemispheres when atmosphere is evacuated from them.
It's pretty plain to understand for those willing to.

Yes, it is very easy. So why are you refusing to (or acting like you don't)?
Pressure is capable of forcing them together preventing people from easily pulling them apart.
It doesn't matter what direction they are in. They are forced TOGETHER. Not down, not up, but TOGETHER/INWARDS.

When the pressure is equalised, they can then be pulled apart.

This is how pressure actually works. It doesn't work by magically pushing things down.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 28, 2018, 04:09:07 PM

I gave you the answer as to why it stays at the top of the container and why it falls.

Stop lying. You gave no such answer.
The closest you got was saying the atmosphere can no longer hold it up.
That doesn't explain why it should go down.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 28, 2018, 04:09:07 PM

Go and find it or ask someone to help you, unless you deliberately bypassed it so you can keep claiming I didn't provide an answer because you have nothing else to add.

Quit with the pathetic distractions built upon lies.
You have no answer and need to do whatever you can to avoid that.

I will keep asking to keep pointing out you have no answer.
As all the experiments in the world show, objects are pushed inwards by pressure, not magically downwards.

It is a very simple question that you are completely unable to answer
Why should anything fall in your fantasyland?

Try reading what I say before you go into blood pressure overload.

What is being demonstrated is that an object will take a different amount of time to hit the ground dependant upon the density of the ground below it.

The results will show that denser ground will cause an object to fall faster downwards. This directly supports gravity. How does denspressure explain this result?

Porosity.

Quote from: JackBlack on December 28, 2018, 10:42:32 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 28, 2018, 04:09:07 PM

Once that jar is at equalised pressure the jar itself is displacing external atmosphere upon its external surface.
Inside the jar it is displacing the internal atmospheric air by the thickness of its glass skin.
The mass of atmosphere externally is trying to squeeze the jar but that jar can still be picked up easily by a reasonable force.
However, if you allow air inside the jar to add to the external atmosphere, it adds more compression onto the external jar and negates a push up from inside, creating a push down with more force against resistance, which leaves the jar as a much harder proposition to raise by force.

This pile of bovine excrement doesn't address a single thing I said.
Again, it is not up and down. It is in and out.
The jar and base are pressed together by the atmosphere. It doesn't magically push down.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 28, 2018, 04:09:07 PM

All you have to do is look at the magdeburg hemispheres when atmosphere is evacuated from them.
It's pretty plain to understand for those willing to.

Yes, it is very easy. So why are you refusing to (or acting like you don't)?
Pressure is capable of forcing them together preventing people from easily pulling them apart.
It doesn't matter what direction they are in. They are forced TOGETHER. Not down, not up, but TOGETHER/INWARDS.

When the pressure is equalised, they can then be pulled apart.

This is how pressure actually works. It doesn't work by magically pushing things down.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 28, 2018, 04:09:07 PM

I gave you the answer as to why it stays at the top of the container and why it falls.

Stop lying. You gave no such answer.
The closest you got was saying the atmosphere can no longer hold it up.
That doesn't explain why it should go down.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 28, 2018, 04:09:07 PM

Go and find it or ask someone to help you, unless you deliberately bypassed it so you can keep claiming I didn't provide an answer because you have nothing else to add.

Quit with the pathetic distractions built upon lies.
You have no answer and need to do whatever you can to avoid that.

I will keep asking to keep pointing out you have no answer.
As all the experiments in the world show, objects are pushed inwards by pressure, not magically downwards.

It is a very simple question that you are completely unable to answer
Why should anything fall in your fantasyland?

Try reading what I say before you go into blood pressure overload.

Try answering the post rather than forever coming up with your perennial pathetic excuses.

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 28, 2018, 11:17:36 PM

Semantics.
Is electricoty a positive lr negative flow?

Do you mean charge?
If so, in metals it will normally be electrons.
In semiconductors it gets more complex.

Is your fridge cold or negatively hot?

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 28, 2018, 06:53:10 PM

hahah
so simple.
so basic.
so plain to understand.
(FYI pg94 for those counting...)
jackB, don't you know anything about madgeburg hemispheres?

but of course the obvious next question is - so atmosphere can NOW be sucked/ evacuated out of a pressure vessel?
before you (scepti) stated it was impossible.
how come you can't understand your own theory?
you keep telling me things were already explained.
why are you having such a hard time understanding simple things?
grasp the basics first before you move on.

can 99% of the air be pumped out of a pressure vessel to create a near empty space?

No.

Hahah
Then dont use mag spheres as an example...

You still need to figure out why the feather didnt flutter.

Quote from: Mainframes on December 28, 2018, 11:52:22 PM

What is being demonstrated is that an object will take a different amount of time to hit the ground dependant upon the density of the ground below it.

The results will show that denser ground will cause an object to fall faster downwards. This directly supports gravity. How does denspressure explain this result?

Porosity.

Tell me about porosity, with proof.

Try answering the post rather than forever coming up with your perennial pathetic excuses.

I'll answer the posts when they're worth answering and not full of bile.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 29, 2018, 04:17:39 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 28, 2018, 06:53:10 PM

hahah
so simple.
so basic.
so plain to understand.
(FYI pg94 for those counting...)
jackB, don't you know anything about madgeburg hemispheres?

but of course the obvious next question is - so atmosphere can NOW be sucked/ evacuated out of a pressure vessel?
before you (scepti) stated it was impossible.
how come you can't understand your own theory?
you keep telling me things were already explained.
why are you having such a hard time understanding simple things?
grasp the basics first before you move on.

can 99% of the air be pumped out of a pressure vessel to create a near empty space?

No.

Hahah
Then dont use mag spheres as an example...

You still need to figure out why the feather didnt flutter.

The hemispheres are a good example of the crushing force after evacuation of internal expanding molecules added to the external pressure.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 29, 2018, 04:22:41 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 28, 2018, 11:52:22 PM

What is being demonstrated is that an object will take a different amount of time to hit the ground dependant upon the density of the ground below it.

The results will show that denser ground will cause an object to fall faster downwards. This directly supports gravity. How does denspressure explain this result?

Porosity.

Tell me about porosity, with proof.

A sponge.
Look it all up, it's well documented as you know.

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 29, 2018, 06:38:20 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 29, 2018, 04:17:39 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 28, 2018, 06:53:10 PM

hahah
so simple.
so basic.
so plain to understand.
(FYI pg94 for those counting...)
jackB, don't you know anything about madgeburg hemispheres?

but of course the obvious next question is - so atmosphere can NOW be sucked/ evacuated out of a pressure vessel?
before you (scepti) stated it was impossible.
how come you can't understand your own theory?
you keep telling me things were already explained.
why are you having such a hard time understanding simple things?
grasp the basics first before you move on.

can 99% of the air be pumped out of a pressure vessel to create a near empty space?

No.

Hahah
Then dont use mag spheres as an example...

You still need to figure out why the feather didnt flutter.

The hemispheres are a good example of the crushing force after evacuation of internal expanding molecules added to the external pressure.

Sounds like a coherent thought.
Can you draw a diagram wih arrows?
Sorry but i cant trust myself to not misinterpret your words.

Quote from: sokarul on December 29, 2018, 09:16:36 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 29, 2018, 04:22:41 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 28, 2018, 11:52:22 PM

What is being demonstrated is that an object will take a different amount of time to hit the ground dependant upon the density of the ground below it.

The results will show that denser ground will cause an object to fall faster downwards. This directly supports gravity. How does denspressure explain this result?

Porosity.

Tell me about porosity, with proof.

A sponge.
Look it all up, it's well documented as you know.

Strange. I copied your post from the ICBM thread and you gave me an answer you didn’t except over there.

Try reading what I say before you go into blood pressure overload.

Follow your own advice and read what others say.

You are yet to provide a reason for why an object falls.
The atmosphere pressing against an object can do one of 3 things:

• Hypothetically if it is held against a solid, impermeable object, it can push it into that object. Note that this is simply pushing the 2 objects together and can be considered as a subset of option 2, where instead of considering 2 separate objects, you consider them as 1.
• Press inwards on the object, crushing the object or holding multiple pieces together, assuming there is no pressure inside pushing out to negate it.
• If there is a pressure gradient then it can push the object due to the gradient, i.e. push from the high pressure region to the low pressure region.

Notice how none of these result in a downwards push.
Instead you have 2 objects being pressed together regardless of orientation, or an object being held together or crushed, where it goes inwards, or objects being pushed in response to a pressure gradient, where due to the nature of the pressure gradient on Earth, with high pressure down low and low pressure up high, it would be an upwards force.

There is no known mechanism or any line of known logical thought which goes from the atmosphere pressing inwards on an object causing the object to be pushed down.

Porosity.

You sure love your baseless assertions.
Just how do you think porosity explains that?

The hemispheres are a good example of the crushing force after evacuation of internal expanding molecules added to the external pressure.

Yes, a great example of how pressure pushes objects inwards, not downwards.

Now again, WHY DO THINGS FALL?

Quote from: rabinoz on December 29, 2018, 04:24:58 AM

Try answering the post rather than forever coming up with your perennial pathetic excuses.

I'll answer the posts when they're worth answering and not full of bile.

This is the very problem I mentioned before, you speak about behavior of materials, porosity for example,  that no one in the history of science has ever observed, not even you, yet you claim it to be true.  In fact there is libraries full of experimental evidence that contradict your claims. From my standpoint there is no bile involved just confusion as to your inconsistency. How can you make your claims when they are based on no more than belief?

Sounds like a coherent thought.
Can you draw a diagram wih arrows?
Sorry but i cant trust myself to not misinterpret your words.

I understand you struggle so I try to think of ways to help you understand. I have some weird belief that you're trying to understand in between fishing for globalist back slaps.

Let's pretend those hemispheres are under water in a big pool and the water is our atmosphere, meaning it's compressible like it, just so you can understand what I'm getting at..
This should give you a better understanding.

Underwater and having the hemispheres unevacuated of water as they are placed together, the hemispheres which are now a sphere, is full of water (think internal atmosphere) and the outside is in a big pool of water (think external atmosphere).

Ok, so now we have to take out the water (atmosphere) from the sphere.
Lets use a bicycle pump.

Ok, so we attach the pump to a valve on the sphere and with the bicycle pump plunger all the way to the bottom of the pump tube, we push up the handle which pushes up the plunger and creates a low pressure as that massive pool of water is pushed back against and in doing so it allows decompressed water (remember air analogy) from the sphere into the tube.

Now the water inside the sphere has expanded but the water allowed to expand from it is now added to the compression externally onto the external of that sphere which crushes it....or tries to.

The reality is, the spheres are being crushed but the resistance inside them is now unequal and cannot resist that crush with the same compressive force it could before the evacuation of some of that pressure.

The more evacuation the more the external crush because there's less resistance to it.
This is why the sphere cannot be easily pushed apart against that crush.

There is no known mechanism or any line of known logical thought which goes from the atmosphere pressing inwards on an object causing the object to be pushed down.
Now again, WHY DO THINGS FALL?

Any object will be crushed down if energy is applied to push it up or a foundation is used for it to resist against the upper atmosphere.
The crushing will be all around the object but the object will only be crushed down because of its own dense mass that requires energy to push up into atmosphere and that energy will be released against it if allowed.



.

This is the very problem I mentioned before, you speak about behavior of materials, porosity for example,  that no one in the history of science has ever observed, not even you, yet you claim it to be true.

Logical thought and simple experiments prove my point.
The issue is in people refusing to see it and instead using their adherence to mainstream, so called, ideals.
Gravity being one major answer to any experiment or thought process and yet gravity has never been proven to be anything.

In fact there is libraries full of experimental evidence that contradict your claims.

It might be full of experiments that pretend to but are not proven to.

From my standpoint there is no bile involved just confusion as to your inconsistency. How can you make your claims when they are based on no more than belief?

Because my belief is due to simple experiments that give a wider view of a closer reality than the so called experiments of so called authority that are so obscure, yet are ingrained into the psyche of people who don;t understand them but have the safety cushion of being able to reference them, at will, without too much thought as to what they're actually referencing in terms of being factual.

Some people are memory mimics. They copy and memorise other people's works without ever knowing the truth of what they memorise. But they can reel off answers to queries about those works as if they are a real expert authority on it and yet all they are, are an authority on the story, not the facts of a story relayed through text or verbal, because they have no access to facts unless they physically prove that story to be factual.

It's all about what people accept as fact without having any inclination to verify them as long as it appears to be official or relayed to them by a what they deem as a plausible seemingly authoritative person.

Why would you say this "It's all about what people accept as fact without having any inclination to verify them as long as it appears to be official or relayed to them by a what they deem as a plausible seemingly authoritative person." when the only evidence for denpressure is your claims?

Why would you say this "It's all about what people accept as fact without having any inclination to verify them as long as it appears to be official or relayed to them by a what they deem as a plausible seemingly authoritative person." when the only evidence for denpressure is your claims?

You make no sense with that statement.

Quote from: sokarul on December 29, 2018, 11:31:30 PM

Why would you say this "It's all about what people accept as fact without having any inclination to verify them as long as it appears to be official or relayed to them by a what they deem as a plausible seemingly authoritative person." when the only evidence for denpressure is your claims?

You make no sense with that statement.

yes, we know you are confused all the time.

Denpressure has no evidence for it. Understand that?

Quote from: Mainframes on December 28, 2018, 11:52:22 PM

What is being demonstrated is that an object will take a different amount of time to hit the ground dependant upon the density of the ground below it.

The results will show that denser ground will cause an object to fall faster downwards. This directly supports gravity. How does denspressure explain this result?

Porosity.

Explain.

Denpressure has no evidence for it. Understand that?

I understand you reject it all and that's absolutely fine.
You still feel the need to pop in from time to time to tell me and yet have zero proof to the contrary of it.

Carry on.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 29, 2018, 04:22:41 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 28, 2018, 11:52:22 PM

What is being demonstrated is that an object will take a different amount of time to hit the ground dependant upon the density of the ground below it.

The results will show that denser ground will cause an object to fall faster downwards. This directly supports gravity. How does denspressure explain this result?

Porosity.

Explain.

If I was to drop a sheet of glass onto a solid table by letting it fall at an angle in order to fall flat, it would compress the air under it creating a cushion because the foundation is not very porous as opposed to having a table that has a sieve/perforated foundation to that same glass which would allow that glass to be far less cushioned.


Is that a good enough explanation or would you like something more spongy?

Quote from: sokarul on December 29, 2018, 11:39:59 PM

Denpressure has no evidence for it. Understand that?

I understand you reject it all and that's absolutely fine.
You still feel the need to pop in from time to time to tell me and yet have zero proof to the contrary of it.

Carry on.

I have two videos of scales in a vacuum desiccator showing zero change in weight as the pressure drops.

Denpressure was dead the day you made it up.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 29, 2018, 11:51:04 PM

Quote from: sokarul on December 29, 2018, 11:39:59 PM

Denpressure has no evidence for it. Understand that?

I understand you reject it all and that's absolutely fine.
You still feel the need to pop in from time to time to tell me and yet have zero proof to the contrary of it.

Carry on.

I have two videos of scales in a vacuum desiccator showing zero change in weight as the pressure drops.

Denpressure was dead the day you made it up.

You have no clue about denpressure so why waste your time?
Stop trying to live off your failed pretence of an experiment.

Like I said, i have two videos. You have nothing.

Like I said, i have two videos. You have nothing.

Good for you. You enjoy them.

Here is where you invented denpressure, which was originally just air pressure. Which is what I said.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=58857.msg1502618#msg1502618

I forgot you also started with magnetism. Why did you change?

Why did you delete your posts?

Here is where you invented denpressure, which was originally just air pressure. Which is what I said.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=58857.msg1502618#msg1502618

It still is air pressure upon any dense mass/object. It's never changed other than how I explain.

I forgot you also started with magnetism. Why did you change?

I have a lot of stuff to fathom out and it takes a long time to do it.
I started off when I came here with all kinds of theories of what Earth could be against the one we are bullied into accepting.
I did the same with trying to fathom gravity and then to wonder about magnetism and atmosphere and how they can all work.

I'm at the stage I'm at now and very comfortable with it.
There's lots more to think on and many more experiments to be done.
People like you trying to scupper it only makes me stronger on it, not weaker.

I firmly believe I've destroyed the fantasy story of gravity. I've done this with denpressure.
I've explained denpressure but maybe not enough for many people to get a grasp of...especially yourself.

And as for me changing from magnetism. I didn't change from it, I incorporated it into my denpressure due to understanding the potential of how it all works.

You can spend your entire life shouting "no no no" and "I've won" shenanigans and whatever you feel you want to spew at the time. It changes nothing from my side other than me wasting time replying to you.

You're too much of an ******** for me to spend too much time replying to but I'll give you another chance to see where you want to go from here.

Why did you delete your posts?

Too much of a hothead at the time. A whining cry baby most likely. It's all a learning curve I suppose.
I was basically a bit of an ******** myself. Maybe I still am, but there you go.
I try to be as nice as I can and explain stuff. I think I do a sterling job in replying to numerous posts...even amid bile thrown at me.

I'm much more pacified today than I was then.

That's why I tend to try and not get into tit for tat digs like this one is in a little way to you...and to myself I might add.

I think you'll admit you've been far from nice. Maybe you can change or already have. Let's see.

Quote from: Mainframes on December 29, 2018, 11:49:27 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 29, 2018, 04:22:41 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 28, 2018, 11:52:22 PM

What is being demonstrated is that an object will take a different amount of time to hit the ground dependant upon the density of the ground below it.

The results will show that denser ground will cause an object to fall faster downwards. This directly supports gravity. How does denspressure explain this result?

Porosity.

Explain.

If I was to drop a sheet of glass onto a solid table by letting it fall at an angle in order to fall flat, it would compress the air under it creating a cushion because the foundation is not very porous as opposed to having a table that has a sieve/perforated foundation to that same glass which would allow that glass to be far less cushioned.


Is that a good enough explanation or would you like something more spongy?

Solid rock has no porosity.

This is why the sphere cannot be easily pushed apart against that crush.

Yes, pulled apart, because the water is pushing inwards, holding them together, not magically down.

Any object will be crushed down

That is the baseless claim you keep asserting. You are yet to provide any explanation of HOW or WHY.
Until you do, I will keep pointing that out and asking why things fall.

if energy is applied to push it up or a foundation is used for it to resist against the upper atmosphere.

Again, why just magically up?
Why not sideways? why not down?

The crushing will be all around the object but the object will only be crushed down

This literally makes no sense.
If the crushing is all around it would be crushed inwards, not down.

its own dense mass that requires energy to push up into atmosphere

And that is just another baseless assertion.
Why does it take energy to go up, but not down?

There is absolutely no basis in your nonsense.

Logical thought and simple experiments prove my point.

No, they refute it, as has been explained to you repeatedly.
But you just ignore that and pretend all your nonsense works fine.

Because my belief is due to simple experiments

But you are completely unable to give any experiment which backs you up.
So that clearly isn't the case.

You can't even explain why things fall. As such, even a simple experiment of an object falling disproves your nonsense.

I started off when I came here with all kinds of theories of what Earth could be against the one we are bullied into accepting.

i.e. you weren't trying to find the truth. You were trying to find an excuse to pretend the mainstream model is wrong.

I firmly believe I've destroyed the fantasy story of gravity. I've done this with denpressure.

No, you haven't done this at all.
You have completely failed to do so.
Gravity provides an explanation for why things fall, why the atmosphere has a pressure gradient and by extension buoyancy, the cavendish experiment and many like it, the nature of things falling in a vacuum or different pressures, and mercury barometers.
You don't have any of that. You just have baseless assertions claiming they work.

So again:
WHY DO THINGS FALL?