Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2790 on: December 27, 2018, 12:22:51 AM »
You dont have to explain how or why or anything.
Just yes not can a pump move air or fluid in and out of a pressure vessel.

Yes no.

No explanatiom required.
It depends on how you look at it.
I've told you how evacuation works.
If you took notes then you should understand my explanation.

As for pressurising a vessel. The pump compresses air .
Understand the evacuation before you move into the rest of it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2791 on: December 27, 2018, 12:26:51 AM »


How do we measure the density of an object?
Man made measuring scales that give off a reading based on how much atmosphere a dense object placed upon those scales, displaces.

Objects will accelerate at a faster rate downwards if the ground is made of a denser than average material such as basalt.
How was this tested and what was the instrument used, How does this instrument actually work.
Just the basics will be absolutely fine.

They call it a....... stopwatch.
Ahhh ok. You have a stopwatch and you're stood near basalt and more dense ground.
Tell me how you achieve this measuring.
I want this from you, not from some book that you simply adhered to because it's classed as official.

Drop object from defined height.
Measure time taken to fall to ground.
Repeat for multiple locations with varying ground density.
Perform many, many times to reduce error.

This is not complicated.
I never said it was complicated. But what does it prove?

It proves you can drop an object...so what?

Tell me what you've done to prove gravity.
Tell me about all the drops you did under different conditions that proved gravity to you.
Or did you simply read and accept text book answers?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2792 on: December 27, 2018, 12:27:33 AM »
My question is how does den pressure explain planetary motion, the apparent motion of the Sun and moon, the motion of the zodiac?
Kabool answered your question.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2793 on: December 27, 2018, 12:56:30 AM »
Sceptimatic.  Remember I asked you about the helium balloon expanding as it got to high altitude and ultimately popping right?  Well, that helium balloon inside a near vacuum chamber doesn’t float anymore and instead falls down.



How is this happening with denpressure and isn’t the fact this is happening simply evidence of gravity?
A fair question but no it's not evidence of gravity. It's more evidence for the stacked atmosphere and the dome if looked at how I mentioned along the route of my denpressure theory.

In atmosphere with a helium balloon you've basically stripped the molecules down to much less compactness. Basically you've allowed those molecules to expand and become less dense per area.
As we know in a more dense stacked atmosphere and placing a balloon filled with that helium, we know that the denser atmosphere will try to crush it but in doing so it will only push up the balloon.
Like trying to hold a wet bar of soap as an analogy if you forget the denseness of soap.

Ok, so when we do the same thing inside of a chamber we are allowing the pressure to evacuate from the chamber...not crush.
Until that chamber is under evacuation you see the helium balloons at the top. Think of this as being at the top of the stack after being crushed up but not being allowed to go any further due to a solid ceiling of the container, which does not resemble the dome ceiling. Let me make that clear.

However, when you start the pump and allow the molecules inside the chamber to expand you are also making the atmosphere inside of that chamber less dense and in line with the less dense expansion of molecules inside the balloon.


Once enough of the molecules expand out of the container, the molecules left inside of it cannot crush the balloons with enough dense mass to keep it up because the balloon skin and the helium molecules inside become too dense to be held aloft and can easily start to push back against the lesser crush up which is now a weaker force of compression.

This should scupper gravity in itself but gravity is so ingrained into the psyche of people that they refuse to accept anything outside of the text book of mainstream.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2794 on: December 27, 2018, 12:58:58 AM »
My question is how does den pressure explain planetary motion, the apparent motion of the Sun and moon, the motion of the zodiac?

We re under a dome.
Cant exist.

That  makes no sense, you see the sun daily, the stars each night, and the moon. The question remains, how does den pressure, explain there motion.
Look in Jane's compendium for a brief understanding.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2795 on: December 27, 2018, 01:14:11 AM »
But
Like gravity and domes and stars and nasa videos and such - scepti will dismiss.
So chasing a discussion along those lines will go no where.
Youve never been to the moon.
You can prove a srar is actually a giant bburning ball of gas in space.
Unless its something scpepti can physically do and see, without ambiguity of the reason, youre going to get nonaswers or trolled into gonowhere discussion.

Lets all agree to focus on this:


A pump exists.
Pressure vessels exist.
You know a pump exists and also a pressure vessel. It's about what they do which is the key.

Quote from: Themightykabool
A pump does NOT move air in and out but rather "forces" or "energizes" the air molecules with "vibrations" so that it pushes/ pulls (depending on direction) against the external atmosphere.
This causes the molecules in the vessel to stack/ unstack and grow/ shrink like layers of a gobstopper.
You're moving way above and beyond what you need to be doing at this stage.
Concentrate on the basics of what I've been trying to help you with.




Quote from: Themightykabool
But the underlying principle is that air can NOT be evacuated.
It can be evacuated but it does this naturally from a container of the atmosphere is of a lower pressure for it to evacuate into.
A pump creates the push against the external atmosphere to allow this to naturally happen.
This has been explained so why are you having so much trouble with it?

Quote from: Themightykabool
It is impossible to have nothing.
Empty space can NOT exist.

Yes no scepti?
Empty space in a room is not expty space. I know that may sound obvious but it seems to some they will revert back to something like this as if they are totally lost.
Hopefully you won;t pull that.

Ok so basically speaking, empty space as we are told by the mainstream, would be totally nothingness. A vacuum as we are told a vacuum is.
This is the nonsense and should be seen for that.
Anyone who dares come to their senses should understand that nothing could work unless everything was attached, throughout.

The major major issue is the adherence to a so called spinning globe against a so called empty space which is classed as a vacuum apart from some supposed scattered matter. It's so nonsensical it actually makes me sick and bemused and amused all at once.
However, this won't get us far.

Simple and basic.
Every piece of matter/molecule in this cell is attached with absolutely no free space anywhere.
Free space cannot exist in terms of a literal nothingness. It should be obvious and should be looked at to understand why, because understanding it would totally destroy the nonsense of what mainstream so called scientists have battered people to all hell with in order for them to be devoid of basic and logical reasoning.

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JackBlack

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2796 on: December 27, 2018, 01:23:37 AM »
but no it's not evidence of gravity. It's more evidence for the stacked atmosphere and the dome if looked at how I mentioned along the route of my denpressure theory.
Pure BS.
It is evidence of gravity. It shows that objects experience a downwards force, even with insignificant amounts of air to displace.
If your nonsense was true they shouldn't fall in a vacuum. They should experience less downwards force in the vacuum than outside it.

As we know in a more dense stacked atmosphere and placing a balloon filled with that helium, we know that the denser atmosphere will try to crush it but in doing so it will only push up the balloon.
No. We don't know that at all.
You repeatedly assert similar nonsense, but typically with things getting "crushed" down. Even though that literally makes no sense and you have no justification for any directionality.

Like trying to hold a wet bar of soap
No. Fundamentally different. When you hold the soap you typically just push in from 2 sides, or a ring around it. Not from all directions as the atmosphere does.
The direction it moves is also entirely dependent upon where you are squeezing and its shape.

Once enough of the molecules expand out of the container, the molecules left inside of it cannot crush the balloons with enough dense mass to keep it up
But you have no reason for it to move. You still have the balloon against the top of the container, and the air inside the chamber (even though it is at a low pressure, there is still some in there) would only be pushing it up against the container. You have no reason for it to move down.

This should scupper gravity in itself but gravity is so ingrained into the psyche of people that they refuse to accept anything outside of the text book of mainstream.
Not in the slightest.
Gravity can be used to accurately explain and predict what will happen.
It provides a reason for the directionality, and the difference in what happens in different density fluids.

You can only provide post-hoc nonsense.

A vacuum as we are told a vacuum is.
No, a vacuum is a region of very low pressure. No one claims a vacuum is completely empty.

This is the nonsense and should be seen for that.
Yes, everything you say seems to be pure nonsense, and people see it for that.

Anyone who dares come to their senses should understand that nothing could work unless everything was attached, throughout.
No, they wouldn't as there is absolutely no justification for that.
Why does everything need to be attached for things to work?

The major major issue is the adherence to a so called spinning globe
Again, your BS works just as well for a spinning globe.
Nothing you have provided requires a flat surface.
Earth was known to be a globe for quite some time. Even when people had the idea that a vacuum was impossible.

It's so nonsensical
If it is so nonsensical, why are you completely unable to show a single problem with it?
So far all you have are pathetic strawmen.

Free space cannot exist in terms of a literal nothingness. It should be obvious and should be looked at to understand why
Or how about you try telling us why?
You seem incapable of doing so and instead just repeatedly asserting the same BS. In fact, that sure seems to be all you are capable of doing, just repeatedly asserting the same collection of BS, without anything at all to back you up.

Stop lying by claiming mainstream science is nonsense when you are completely unable to provide any viable alternative and completely unable to show a single thing wrong with modern science.

So I ask again, WHY DO THINGS FALL?
You are yet to provide any explanation. So far all you have is a baseless assertion that the air magically pushes things down, which you then contradict by it magically pushing some thing up.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2797 on: December 27, 2018, 02:45:43 AM »
Scepti said a lot of things but danced the question.
Lots of words that go no where.
He must work in politics.

Please define "evacuate".
Probably doesnt mean the same as all other english speaking humans.

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rabinoz

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2798 on: December 27, 2018, 03:55:49 AM »
Scepti said a lot of things but danced the question.
Lots of words that go no where.
He must work in politics.

Please define "evacuate".
Probably doesnt mean the same as all other english speaking humans.
Back on February 13, 2017 I asked Sceppy to fill in his meaning for the list of words below but his Sceppinese dictionary seems to lack "evacuate":
(Sceppy filled the definitions into the Quote of my post.)
You claim "I understand what they mean."
OK, please define:

"mass",.....The amount of material that makes up an object.
"weight",....The amount compactness of a material that can displace atmospheric pressure.
"volume",...The amount of porosity in any object.
"density"....The structure of a material that can displace atmospheric pressure to create a scale reading. (Denpressure)
"speed",....The ability to go a distance in a certain time in any direction.
"velocity",..... The speed of something in one direction, only.
"acceleration",.....The continuous build up of movement.
 "force",..... Any energy push in any direction
"inertia",..... Something that cannot be explained as anything, to be fair.
"pressure",.....I think pressure can be lumped in with force. there's actually no difference to what they both mean in the grand scheme of things.
"pressure gradient",........ The difference in energy force that goes from low to high or high to low.
"power",....  Energy push.
"energy"......Vibration and friction, which basically are the same thing.
There you go. I took the time out to answer them in my own words. Sit and argue them all you want by looking in your, all knowing no wrong science book of mainstream answers to any questions that you follow without question.
Also, only 9 months later Copper Knickers asked the following question:
Would a litre of water and a litre of mercury have the same mass in denpressure theory?
What is mass?
And Sceppy did not know even though he earlier said "mass",.....The amount of material that makes up an object. - go figure!

Have fun with the Sceppinese dictionary!

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2799 on: December 27, 2018, 07:09:11 AM »
Correct.
I did go back to the translator.
Possibly scpeiti was trolling copperk.
He seems to like to delfect direct questions.


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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2800 on: December 27, 2018, 10:56:50 AM »
Ok scepti:

"It can be evacuated but it does this naturally from a container of the atmosphere is of a lower pressure for it to evacuate into.
A pump creates the push against the external atmosphere to allow this to naturally happen.
This has been explained so why are you having so much trouble with it?"

No trouble except you keep dodging.
Yes youve stated the same response ober and over.
Ive repeated it back.
I piggybacked off your line of thinking with the next question about breathing.
You refuse to respond.
You claim everything so basic and simple yet cant come up with an answer.
Your excuse = "go back through the readings".
However you continue to restate and go into overly lengthy detail about lifting blocks and snow on branches.
Clearly youve got time on your hands so i will infer you have no clue how scuba gear workd nor why the feather didnt flutter.
But evreything is so obvious and simple.
Yet the basics are above me.
Have you read janes compendium?
It gives little to no details regarding your theory and your misuse of words is chaos.
Answer my 3rd question - Hugh's on first?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2801 on: December 27, 2018, 11:00:28 AM »
Forget hugh.
Its not a question.   
Its a statement.



Quote from: sceptimatic on Today at 12:56:30 AM
"Once enough of the molecules expand out of the container, the molecules left inside of it cannot crush the balloons with enough dense mass to keep it up."

To clarify and piggyback off jackbs point - the vessel blocks the crush of the atmosphere.
The same atmosphere that presses down causing weight.
How then with pressure reduced to near zero does the balloon fall?
The balloon has been isolated from the outside.



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MouseWalker

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2802 on: December 27, 2018, 03:27:57 PM »
My question is how does den pressure explain planetary motion, the apparent motion of the Sun and moon, the motion of the zodiac?
Kabool answered your question.
Where did he do that?
The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.

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rabinoz

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2803 on: December 27, 2018, 05:09:09 PM »
That  makes no sense, you see the sun daily, the stars each night, and the moon. The question remains, how does den pressure, explain there motion.
Look in Jane's compendium for a brief understanding.
No, MouseWalker asked YOU, so YOU answer - if you can ;D.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2804 on: December 28, 2018, 01:02:54 AM »
Scepti said a lot of things but danced the question.
Lots of words that go no where.
He must work in politics.

Please define "evacuate".
Probably doesnt mean the same as all other english speaking humans.
Evacuate on my terms when dealing with released matter is simply allowing that matter to expand out of any container.
It simply replaces (in this case) the word (suck) which has no real meaning in the cold light of day, where this stuff is concerned.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2805 on: December 28, 2018, 01:08:49 AM »
Scepti said a lot of things but danced the question.
Lots of words that go no where.
He must work in politics.

Please define "evacuate".
Probably doesnt mean the same as all other english speaking humans.
Back on February 13, 2017 I asked Sceppy to fill in his meaning for the list of words below but his Sceppinese dictionary seems to lack "evacuate":
(Sceppy filled the definitions into the Quote of my post.)
You claim "I understand what they mean."
OK, please define:

"mass",.....The amount of material that makes up an object.
"weight",....The amount compactness of a material that can displace atmospheric pressure.
"volume",...The amount of porosity in any object.
"density"....The structure of a material that can displace atmospheric pressure to create a scale reading. (Denpressure)
"speed",....The ability to go a distance in a certain time in any direction.
"velocity",..... The speed of something in one direction, only.
"acceleration",.....The continuous build up of movement.
 "force",..... Any energy push in any direction
"inertia",..... Something that cannot be explained as anything, to be fair.
"pressure",.....I think pressure can be lumped in with force. there's actually no difference to what they both mean in the grand scheme of things.
"pressure gradient",........ The difference in energy force that goes from low to high or high to low.
"power",....  Energy push.
"energy"......Vibration and friction, which basically are the same thing.
There you go. I took the time out to answer them in my own words. Sit and argue them all you want by looking in your, all knowing no wrong science book of mainstream answers to any questions that you follow without question.
Also, only 9 months later Copper Knickers asked the following question:
Would a litre of water and a litre of mercury have the same mass in denpressure theory?
What is mass?
And Sceppy did not know even though he earlier said "mass",.....The amount of material that makes up an object. - go figure!

Have fun with the Sceppinese dictionary!
I asked the question of copper knickers to basically reiterate what I said mass is.
He asked the question about more mass.

It's more material. More structure.
Mercury and water have different structures. Mercury is more dense/more mass.

Nothing You are saying is scuppering anything I'm conveying.
It looks like desperation on your part, Rab.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2806 on: December 28, 2018, 01:24:33 AM »
Quote from: Themightykabool
To clarify and piggyback off jackbs point - the vessel blocks the crush of the atmosphere.
The same atmosphere that presses down causing weight.
Just remember how an upturned bell jar works when pressure is evacuated and allowed into the atmosphere and how the bell jar is pushed to the foundation it is sitting on so you cannot release it.
What's that pressure?

Quote from: Themightykabool
How then with pressure reduced to near zero does the balloon fall?
The balloon has been isolated from the outside.
The balloon is still in it's own atmosphere, except it's under much lower pressure now that the container is being allowed to evacuate by expansion.
It means the skin of the balloon cannot be kept up by the once  larger mass of compressed molecules.

The actual balloon itself with its own equalisation of expansion is allowed to crush back against the crush of the weaker more expanded and less molecules.
Basically they lose their layer of the gobstopper.

This will totally get lost on your because your mind is on a real gobstopper.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2807 on: December 28, 2018, 01:30:39 AM »
My question is how does den pressure explain planetary motion, the apparent motion of the Sun and moon, the motion of the zodiac?
Kabool answered your question.
Where did he do that?
He told you they don't exist in my theory.
Basically speaking I cannot answer your question because your question is not accepted by me as part of anything I'm theorising.
They simply do not exist.


Everything you see is inside the dome. Inside this cell we are all dependent on for life. Imprisoned inside against our will or in acceptance of.

All the moving lights in the sky that are not man made, are simply reflections off the dome or super friction of hydrogen/helium, etc....ice.
However, let's leave it at that because it gets too deep and it's getting too difficult for many people to actually grasp the initial basics of my theory.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2808 on: December 28, 2018, 06:21:38 AM »
Quote from: Themightykabool
To clarify and piggyback off jackbs point - the vessel blocks the crush of the atmosphere.
The same atmosphere that presses down causing weight.
Just remember how an upturned bell jar works when pressure is evacuated and allowed into the atmosphere and how the bell jar is pushed to the foundation it is sitting on so you cannot release it.
What's that pressure?

Quote from: Themightykabool
How then with pressure reduced to near zero does the balloon fall?
The balloon has been isolated from the outside.
The balloon is still in it's own atmosphere, except it's under much lower pressure now that the container is being allowed to evacuate by expansion.
It means the skin of the balloon cannot be kept up by the once  larger mass of compressed molecules.

The actual balloon itself with its own equalisation of expansion is allowed to crush back against the crush of the weaker more expanded and less molecules.
Basically they lose their layer of the gobstopper.

This will totally get lost on your because your mind is on a real gobstopper.

Despite your handwaving and attempts to cloud the discussion by changing words, i am following along and maintaining conversation within your world.

So molecules push against each other (stacking).
These air molecules in the dome stack up and due to the stacked pressure, push loose objects like rocks and snow and balloons down to the foundation.
But a pump can suck the air out of a prrssure vessel.

Re-read what you said below.
Starting to contradict yourself.

Within the vessel the pressure of the molecules is removed due to the sucking evacuation.

But previously you said the air molecules expand to fill the vessel because the pressure of the atmoshpher is pushed back by the pump.

Which is it?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2809 on: December 28, 2018, 06:28:19 AM »
Quote from: Themightykabool
To clarify and piggyback off jackbs point - the vessel blocks the crush of the atmosphere.
The same atmosphere that presses down causing weight.
Just remember how an upturned bell jar works when pressure is evacuated and allowed into the atmosphere and how the bell jar is pushed to the foundation it is sitting on so you cannot release it.
What's that pressure?

Quote from: Themightykabool
How then with pressure reduced to near zero does the balloon fall?
The balloon has been isolated from the outside.
The balloon is still in it's own atmosphere, except it's under much lower pressure now that the container is being allowed to evacuate by expansion.
It means the skin of the balloon cannot be kept up by the once  larger mass of compressed molecules.

The actual balloon itself with its own equalisation of expansion is allowed to crush back against the crush of the weaker more expanded and less molecules.
Basically they lose their layer of the gobstopper.

This will totally get lost on your because your mind is on a real gobstopper.

Despite your handwaving and attempts to cloud the discussion by changing words, i am following along and maintaining conversation within your world.

So molecules push against each other (stacking).
These air molecules in the dome stack up and due to the stacked pressure, push loose objects like rocks and snow and balloons down to the foundation.
But a pump can suck the air out of a prrssure vessel.

Re-read what you said below.
Starting to contradict yourself.

Within the vessel the pressure of the molecules is removed due to the sucking evacuation.

But previously you said the air molecules expand to fill the vessel because the pressure of the atmoshpher is pushed back by the pump.

Which is it?
Your desperation makes you look a fool.
No way have I ever said that, unless you'd like to directly quote it and link to that quote.

If you can't then take a back seat because you will be treated like a fool if you carry this garbage on.


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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2810 on: December 28, 2018, 07:09:15 AM »
Quote from: Themightykabool
To clarify and piggyback off jackbs point - the vessel blocks the crush of the atmosphere.
The same atmosphere that presses down causing weight.
Just remember how an upturned bell jar works when pressure is evacuated and allowed into the atmosphere and how the bell jar is pushed to the foundation it is sitting on so you cannot release it.
What's that pressure?

Quote from: Themightykabool
How then with pressure reduced to near zero does the balloon fall?
The balloon has been isolated from the outside.
The balloon is still in it's own atmosphere, except it's under much lower pressure now that the container is being allowed to evacuate by expansion.
It means the skin of the balloon cannot be kept up by the once  larger mass of compressed molecules.

The actual balloon itself with its own equalisation of expansion is allowed to crush back against the crush of the weaker more expanded and less molecules.
Basically they lose their layer of the gobstopper.

This will totally get lost on your because your mind is on a real gobstopper.

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JackBlack

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2811 on: December 28, 2018, 12:24:27 PM »
Just remember how an upturned bell jar works when pressure is evacuated and allowed into the atmosphere and how the bell jar is pushed to the foundation it is sitting on so you cannot release it.
To understand it properly you need to realise it isn't just the jar.
Instead it is the jar and the base.
This has pressure on the outside, pushing it together.
It doesn't matter what the orientation is, they will be pushed together.
In order to separate them, you need pressure on the inside as well to act against the external pressure.

So that still provides no reason for things to go down. Once again it is just having them go in.
What's that pressure?

It means the skin of the balloon cannot be kept up by the once  larger mass of compressed molecules.
But you haven't provided any reason for it to be pushed up.
Even if the atmosphere can't manage to push it up, why should that mean it goes down?
You have no force trying to push/pull the balloon down.
Instead you have the balloon up against the top of the container.
You admit that there is still some air in it, meaning that there will be some air pushing the balloon into the top of the container.
But you have nothing which should make it go down.

So why does the balloon fall? Why doesn't it just stay at the top of the container?

But of course, this just relates back to the more basic question:
Why does anything fall?
You are yet to provide an answer.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2812 on: December 28, 2018, 04:09:07 PM »
Just remember how an upturned bell jar works when pressure is evacuated and allowed into the atmosphere and how the bell jar is pushed to the foundation it is sitting on so you cannot release it.
To understand it properly you need to realise it isn't just the jar.
Instead it is the jar and the base.
This has pressure on the outside, pushing it together.
It doesn't matter what the orientation is, they will be pushed together.
In order to separate them, you need pressure on the inside as well to act against the external pressure.
Once that jar is at equalised pressure the jar itself is displacing external atmosphere upon its external surface.
Inside the jar it is displacing the internal atmospheric air by the thickness of its glass skin.
The mass of atmosphere externally is trying to squeeze the jar but that jar can still be picked up easily by a reasonable force.
However, if you allow air inside the jar to add to the external atmosphere, it adds more compression onto the external jar and negates a push up from inside, creating a push down with more force against resistance, which leaves the jar as a much harder proposition to raise by force.


All you have to do is look at the magdeburg hemispheres when atmosphere is evacuated from them.
It's pretty plain to understand for those willing to.


Quote from: JackBlack
You have no force trying to push/pull the balloon down.
Instead you have the balloon up against the top of the container.
You admit that there is still some air in it, meaning that there will be some air pushing the balloon into the top of the container.
But you have nothing which should make it go down.

So why does the balloon fall? Why doesn't it just stay at the top of the container?

But of course, this just relates back to the more basic question:
Why does anything fall?
You are yet to provide an answer.
I gave you the answer as to why it stays at the top of the container and why it falls.
The answer is there. Look back at the explanation, it's only a page ago, or so.
Go and find it or ask someone to help you, unless you deliberately bypassed it so you can keep claiming I dind't provide an answer because you have nothing else to add.

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Themightykabool

  • 13118
  • +58/-80
Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2813 on: December 28, 2018, 06:53:10 PM »
hahah
so simple.
so basic.
so plain to understand.
(FYI pg94 for those counting...)
jackB, don't you know anything about madgeburg hemispheres?

but of course the obvious next question is - so atmosphere can NOW be sucked/ evacuated out of a pressure vessel?
before you (scepti) stated it was impossible.
how come you can't understand your own theory?
you keep telling me things were already explained.
why are you having such a hard time understanding simple things?
grasp the basics first before you move on.

can 99% of the air be pumped out of a pressure vessel to create a near empty space?

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2814 on: December 28, 2018, 10:42:32 PM »
Once that jar is at equalised pressure the jar itself is displacing external atmosphere upon its external surface.
Inside the jar it is displacing the internal atmospheric air by the thickness of its glass skin.
The mass of atmosphere externally is trying to squeeze the jar but that jar can still be picked up easily by a reasonable force.
However, if you allow air inside the jar to add to the external atmosphere, it adds more compression onto the external jar and negates a push up from inside, creating a push down with more force against resistance, which leaves the jar as a much harder proposition to raise by force.
This pile of bovine excrement doesn't address a single thing I said.
Again, it is not up and down. It is in and out.
The jar and base are pressed together by the atmosphere. It doesn't magically push down.

All you have to do is look at the magdeburg hemispheres when atmosphere is evacuated from them.
It's pretty plain to understand for those willing to.
Yes, it is very easy. So why are you refusing to (or acting like you don't)?
Pressure is capable of forcing them together preventing people from easily pulling them apart.
It doesn't matter what direction they are in. They are forced TOGETHER. Not down, not up, but TOGETHER/INWARDS.

When the pressure is equalised, they can then be pulled apart.

This is how pressure actually works. It doesn't work by magically pushing things down.


I gave you the answer as to why it stays at the top of the container and why it falls.
Stop lying. You gave no such answer.
The closest you got was saying the atmosphere can no longer hold it up.
That doesn't explain why it should go down.

Go and find it or ask someone to help you, unless you deliberately bypassed it so you can keep claiming I didn't provide an answer because you have nothing else to add.
Quit with the pathetic distractions built upon lies.
You have no answer and need to do whatever you can to avoid that.

I will keep asking to keep pointing out you have no answer.
As all the experiments in the world show, objects are pushed inwards by pressure, not magically downwards.

It is a very simple question that you are completely unable to answer
Why should anything fall in your fantasyland?

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JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2815 on: December 28, 2018, 10:44:05 PM »
but of course the obvious next question is - so atmosphere can NOW be sucked/ evacuated out of a pressure vessel?
before you (scepti) stated it was impossible.
This is one of (if not the only one) point is he correct on, although his explanation regarding it is pure BS, and it is entirely a technicality.

In terms of gasses, you can't "suck" anything out. Instead the pressure of the gasses inside force it out, or force it into the pump which then pushes it out.

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Themightykabool

  • 13118
  • +58/-80
Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2816 on: December 28, 2018, 11:17:36 PM »
but of course the obvious next question is - so atmosphere can NOW be sucked/ evacuated out of a pressure vessel?
before you (scepti) stated it was impossible.
This is one of (if not the only one) point is he correct on, although his explanation regarding it is pure BS, and it is entirely a technicality.

In terms of gasses, you can't "suck" anything out. Instead the pressure of the gasses inside force it out, or force it into the pump which then pushes it out.

Semantics.
Is electricoty a positive lr negative flow?

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JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2817 on: December 28, 2018, 11:44:20 PM »
Semantics.
Is electricoty a positive lr negative flow?
Do you mean charge?
If so, in metals it will normally be electrons.
In semiconductors it gets more complex.

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Mainframes

  • 2088
  • +0/-0
Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2818 on: December 28, 2018, 11:52:22 PM »


How do we measure the density of an object?
Man made measuring scales that give off a reading based on how much atmosphere a dense object placed upon those scales, displaces.

Objects will accelerate at a faster rate downwards if the ground is made of a denser than average material such as basalt.
How was this tested and what was the instrument used, How does this instrument actually work.
Just the basics will be absolutely fine.

They call it a....... stopwatch.
Ahhh ok. You have a stopwatch and you're stood near basalt and more dense ground.
Tell me how you achieve this measuring.
I want this from you, not from some book that you simply adhered to because it's classed as official.

Drop object from defined height.
Measure time taken to fall to ground.
Repeat for multiple locations with varying ground density.
Perform many, many times to reduce error.

This is not complicated.
I never said it was complicated. But what does it prove?

It proves you can drop an object...so what?

Tell me what you've done to prove gravity.
Tell me about all the drops you did under different conditions that proved gravity to you.
Or did you simply read and accept text book answers?

What is being demonstrated is that an object will take a different amount of time to hit the ground dependant upon the density of the ground below it.

The results will show that denser ground will cause an object to fall faster downwards. This directly supports gravity. How does denspressure explain this result?
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2819 on: December 29, 2018, 04:17:39 AM »
hahah
so simple.
so basic.
so plain to understand.
(FYI pg94 for those counting...)
jackB, don't you know anything about madgeburg hemispheres?

but of course the obvious next question is - so atmosphere can NOW be sucked/ evacuated out of a pressure vessel?
before you (scepti) stated it was impossible.
how come you can't understand your own theory?
you keep telling me things were already explained.
why are you having such a hard time understanding simple things?
grasp the basics first before you move on.

can 99% of the air be pumped out of a pressure vessel to create a near empty space?
No.