Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2670 on: December 20, 2018, 08:20:20 AM »
 >:(0


Well first, the topic is called den pressure - definable hypothesis & experiments

The topic isn't about gravity, it's about denspressure.

Nice cop out though.

But to answer it:


Cavendish.  Now where is yours.
Tell me what Cavendish proves.
And yeah, this is about denpressure but you people persist in using gravity so I'll call you on it.

Ok, so mass moves towards mass on a pivot.
Tell me how this proves gravity and then tell me what that gravity is as a force.

It's fine if you accept you can't. And then I'll move on and explain stacking...but bear in mind it has to be an analogy used due to the fact that seeing molecules stack is just not feasible considering we can't see them due to our eyes being part of them.

Quit trolling with requets for cavendish.
Everyone needs to stop bringing this up.
Scepti will just derail.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2671 on: December 20, 2018, 08:29:09 AM »
Pressure tank (not pressurized).
Typo on my part.
The tank is sealed against atmoshphere.

Rab or jackb would coreect me if im worgn but
The scale in the tank would show didfernet lead block tare weight than external scale.

Then we can pressurize the tank by forcing more water into it.
Bump it up to 15psig.
Would the lead block weigh more?
No.
Pressuization doesnt affsct.

Does NOT need to be a thought experiment.
It is a real possible test.
Wxamples on youtube
Is the tank sealed against atmosphere with trapped atmosphere inside at original atmospheric pressure...say 15 psi?
And then you have scales inside of it as well?
And then you force water into that sealed tank via a valve to compress the atmosphere already trapped inside.

Is this what you are getting at?

Let me know and I'll answer it.

Tanks is sealed.
Thats the point.
Yes but no atmosphere in the tank.
Completely filled with water and with the lead block.
Tahts the experiment.
Isolating the variable called atmospheric prssure.
Thats how you run a test.

Hypothesis - surrounding pressure pushes things down due to displaced volume.
Under pressure did the block get heavier?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2672 on: December 20, 2018, 08:30:33 AM »
But the a REAL question is

Does scepti breathe air?
How is it possible?

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JackBlack

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Re: Den Pressure - An undefinable hypothesis
« Reply #2673 on: December 20, 2018, 12:42:46 PM »
Nobody uses my model and likely never will, in it's basic way.
Do you know why?
Because your model is useless nonsense.

They will still use fictional gravity in place of it.
You mean real gravity, which has been experimentally verified and unlike your garbage actually makes sense, at least as much as any of the other fundamental forces.

Whoever takes my model seriously will be the one's that actually take the time to understand it all.
Again, I have tried doing that and you can't even explain a simple thing like why do things fall.
One of the big problems with you is that if anyone doesn't just accept your nonsense you dismiss them as if they aren't trying to understand. You never even consider the possibility that what you are saying literally makes no sense and that you are making massive leaps where you jump from one thing to another with no connection at all.

You don't have a theory, you don't even have a hypothesis. You have a broken model which makes no sense.


But mass do not attract masses unless they're on a pivot, when level.
So you just ignore all the other experiments which have shown that they do attract regardless?
Every properly made experiment that I know of to test if masses attract other masses has returned a positive result.
There is no reason to think it magically only works downwards for Earth, or horizontal when on a pivot, especially as it has been tested in other ways.

What results does your fictional gravity give out?
I don't have any fictional gravity. We have real gravity. I have already explained what kind of results to expect, and even explained plenty of things with you.

Measured weight of mass does vary with pressure.
Weight or mass?
Mass has no variation with pressure. Weight only varies due to buoyancy, as predicted by gravity. It is not the variation you need.
Lowering the pressure increases the weight, even though less atmosphere is displaced and thus your nonsense indicates it should decrease.

A barometer clearly shows this
No it doesn't.
A barometer relies upon the weight of the mercury being balanced by the pressure of the atmosphere or the pressure differential.
If the weight of the mercury varied with pressure as your model should indicate, then the height of the column would remain the same.

The function of a barometer requires gravity (or some other force, unrelated to air pressure) to provide the weight of the mercury in the tube and thus a pressure at the bottom of the mercury in the tube and thus balance the pressure outside.

Yes they do.
Man you love your lies don't you?
I have explained clearly what is expected from a simple analysis of the "basics" of your model, and that is with accepting your massive logical leaps.
That doesn't match reality at all.
You have no justification for any of the results.
But again, that isn't surprising considering you have no justification for why things fall in the first place.

I'm defending it very well. You not quite understanding it is the problem from your side...not mine.
No, you are repeatedly getting your ass handed to you and are just refusing to admit it.
You ignoring your model and "explanations" repeatedly being refuted doesn't mean you are defending it.

What are the predicted effects of your gravity?
Just outline it all so I'm absolutely sure about it.
We are walking side by side and you have the tools to show me the predicted effects of your gravity.
Try not to cop out of it.
I already have, so quit asking the same question as a cop out.
You know there are no experiments to backup your nonsense, as you almost certainly know that it is nonsense.


Displacing the atmosphere is the origin.
No it isn't.
Displacing the atmosphere provides no basis for a downwards force.

I may be missing a lot of stuff in my explanations
Yes, basically the entirety of it.
You have the start, the alleged basis of your model, with the atmosphere being displaced.
You have the end, where you get a downwards force.
But you are missing literally everything in between to explain how this downwards force arises from displacing the atmosphere.

but I have to keep using analogies
No you don't.
Your analogies aren't helping your case at all.
The problem isn't me not understanding, it is your model making no sense and you having no justification.
Trying to use an analogy doesn't avoid that issue.

In fact, your analogies typically hurt your case.
This is because you often go to water and buoyancy.
Most people at least understand that displacing a volume of a fluid results in a buoyant force based upon the density and volume displaced.
Some people even understand this origin from the pressure gradient in the fluid, which in turn is based upon gravity.
But this is always an upwards force (with the sole exception of things like a centrifuge), never down as your model needs.

Your Earth does not fit into any simple observations. That's the point.
No, that isn't the point. That is a blatant lie, repeated by people that don't care about the truth.
They are yet to provide a single example where a RE doesn't actually fit rather than it just being their pathetic strawman doesn't fit or a blatant lie about reality.

The real observations basically scupper a globe by literal logic and literal sight...etc.
Yet you, and all the other FEers have been completley unable to provide any.

I'm simply telling it how I see it by process of elimination
You have provided no reason to eliminate anything, while there is ample reason to eliminate your nonsense.

I don't recall any flat Earth theorists bothering to look into it. Maybe it bores them. But at least they don't come in to try and scupper it.
Or maybe they realise it is garbage and don't want to support it at all, but at the same time not want to attack it for fear of retaliation.

Globalists try to scupper it
No, we "globalists" repeatedly destroy it with rational arguments.

To learn it or to ensure people don't start to grasp it?
Because we care about the truth.
If you have a model which actually makes sense, we want to know about it.
If it is just delusional nonsense, then we will attack it because all it takes for BS to triumph is for intelligent people to say nothing.

If you would keep your delusional nonsense to yourself, no one would give a damn.

But here we are arguing it.
Think about that.
Not much thought is required.
You have no defense for your nonsense so you need to pretend people showing it to be nonsense somehow magically makes it true.

I ask what it is and you explain that it's going to show mass being attracted to mass.
I ask what it proves.
You say gravity.
I ask how you can prove it's gravity
Again, do you understand what gravity is?
At the simple level, it is mass being attracted to other mass.

But again, yet another pathetic distraction to avoid admitting you have no thing to back up your nonsense.

A simple barometer is one experiment.
Which completely refutes your nonsense as it shows weight is not dependent upon pressure as your nonsense requires.

It is doing what it's expected from my side.
Yet you are completely unable to explain how it magically manages to do so.

I think there's enough experiments that prove it.
There are literally none.
You have provided literally none.

Tell me about this gravitational constant and this 1% or 2% discrepancy
The gravitational constant is a constant of proportionality in an inverse square law, specifically the one for gravity, i.e. F=GMm/r^2.
It is akin to that for the electrostatic force, F=kq1q2/r^2.
The 1 to 2% discrepancy isn't actually a discrepancy. It is experimental error as the results often performed especially by students don't use accurate enough equipment to measure it to the required level of accuracy.

The force is not gravity because gravity is nonsense.
No, it is gravity, because that is what gravity is defined as.
You dismiss gravity as nonsense because it shows your delusions to be wrong.
Even if you don't want to call it gravity, it clearly shows masses attract other masses, i.e. GRAVITY!

But I have explained it with denpressure. The whirlpool effect.
You have explained nothing.

You can't even something as basic as why things fall.

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Stash

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2674 on: December 20, 2018, 01:25:54 PM »


So let's look at it this way. Cavendish experiment exhibits what convention thinks of as gravity; masses attract each other, calculations ensue, blah, blah, blah. Fine. But CavendishX does not exhibit any semblance of den pressure. So, is there an experiment that exhibits den pressure, but does not exhibit gravity?
Let's say we are sat in  a room. You have the Cavendish experiment in front of you. I ask what it is and you explain that it's going to show mass being attracted to mass.
I ask what it proves.
You say gravity.
I ask how you can prove it's gravity and do you have absolute proof of it so when I walk away I can be under no illusions about anything other than what you tell me.


Over to you.

You completely dodged the question. It actually doesn't matter what canvendishx shows or doesn't. The point is that it's unrelated and non-exhibiting of anything to do with the den pressure hypothesis. The question is, is there an experiment that exhibits den pressure, but does not exhibit/can be confused with gravity? Just like cavendishx supposedly exhibits gravity but exhibits nothing and cannot be confused with den pressure. Get it?

(And a barometer is not an answer, it measures atmospheric pressure, not den pressure.)

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rabinoz

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2675 on: December 20, 2018, 01:41:27 PM »
You don’t offer up an experiment because you don’t have an experiment.
A simple barometer is one experiment.
OK describe in detail an experiment with a "simple barometer" that will provide evidence fordenpressure as a better explanation than gravity and air pressure.

And your experiment should be applicable to both a mercury barometer and an aneroid barometer - accurate ones give the same measurement of atmospheric pressure.
Aircraft altimeters are simply accurate aneroid barometers and they have to be quite accurate.

PS An aneroid barometer reads exactly the same whatever it's angle to the vertical.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - An undefinable hypothesis
« Reply #2676 on: December 20, 2018, 01:59:35 PM »
Nobody uses my model and likely never will, in it's basic way.
Do you know why?
Because your model is useless nonsense.

They will still use fictional gravity in place of it.
You mean real gravity, which has been experimentally verified and unlike your garbage actually makes sense, at least as much as any of the other fundamental forces.

Whoever takes my model seriously will be the one's that actually take the time to understand it all.
Again, I have tried doing that and you can't even explain a simple thing like why do things fall.
One of the big problems with you is that if anyone doesn't just accept your nonsense you dismiss them as if they aren't trying to understand. You never even consider the possibility that what you are saying literally makes no sense and that you are making massive leaps where you jump from one thing to another with no connection at all.

You don't have a theory, you don't even have a hypothesis. You have a broken model which makes no sense.


But mass do not attract masses unless they're on a pivot, when level.
So you just ignore all the other experiments which have shown that they do attract regardless?
Every properly made experiment that I know of to test if masses attract other masses has returned a positive result.
There is no reason to think it magically only works downwards for Earth, or horizontal when on a pivot, especially as it has been tested in other ways.

What results does your fictional gravity give out?
I don't have any fictional gravity. We have real gravity. I have already explained what kind of results to expect, and even explained plenty of things with you.

Measured weight of mass does vary with pressure.
Weight or mass?
Mass has no variation with pressure. Weight only varies due to buoyancy, as predicted by gravity. It is not the variation you need.
Lowering the pressure increases the weight, even though less atmosphere is displaced and thus your nonsense indicates it should decrease.

A barometer clearly shows this
No it doesn't.
A barometer relies upon the weight of the mercury being balanced by the pressure of the atmosphere or the pressure differential.
If the weight of the mercury varied with pressure as your model should indicate, then the height of the column would remain the same.

The function of a barometer requires gravity (or some other force, unrelated to air pressure) to provide the weight of the mercury in the tube and thus a pressure at the bottom of the mercury in the tube and thus balance the pressure outside.

Yes they do.
Man you love your lies don't you?
I have explained clearly what is expected from a simple analysis of the "basics" of your model, and that is with accepting your massive logical leaps.
That doesn't match reality at all.
You have no justification for any of the results.
But again, that isn't surprising considering you have no justification for why things fall in the first place.

I'm defending it very well. You not quite understanding it is the problem from your side...not mine.
No, you are repeatedly getting your ass handed to you and are just refusing to admit it.
You ignoring your model and "explanations" repeatedly being refuted doesn't mean you are defending it.

What are the predicted effects of your gravity?
Just outline it all so I'm absolutely sure about it.
We are walking side by side and you have the tools to show me the predicted effects of your gravity.
Try not to cop out of it.
I already have, so quit asking the same question as a cop out.
You know there are no experiments to backup your nonsense, as you almost certainly know that it is nonsense.


Displacing the atmosphere is the origin.
No it isn't.
Displacing the atmosphere provides no basis for a downwards force.

I may be missing a lot of stuff in my explanations
Yes, basically the entirety of it.
You have the start, the alleged basis of your model, with the atmosphere being displaced.
You have the end, where you get a downwards force.
But you are missing literally everything in between to explain how this downwards force arises from displacing the atmosphere.

but I have to keep using analogies
No you don't.
Your analogies aren't helping your case at all.
The problem isn't me not understanding, it is your model making no sense and you having no justification.
Trying to use an analogy doesn't avoid that issue.

In fact, your analogies typically hurt your case.
This is because you often go to water and buoyancy.
Most people at least understand that displacing a volume of a fluid results in a buoyant force based upon the density and volume displaced.
Some people even understand this origin from the pressure gradient in the fluid, which in turn is based upon gravity.
But this is always an upwards force (with the sole exception of things like a centrifuge), never down as your model needs.

Your Earth does not fit into any simple observations. That's the point.
No, that isn't the point. That is a blatant lie, repeated by people that don't care about the truth.
They are yet to provide a single example where a RE doesn't actually fit rather than it just being their pathetic strawman doesn't fit or a blatant lie about reality.

The real observations basically scupper a globe by literal logic and literal sight...etc.
Yet you, and all the other FEers have been completley unable to provide any.

I'm simply telling it how I see it by process of elimination
You have provided no reason to eliminate anything, while there is ample reason to eliminate your nonsense.

I don't recall any flat Earth theorists bothering to look into it. Maybe it bores them. But at least they don't come in to try and scupper it.
Or maybe they realise it is garbage and don't want to support it at all, but at the same time not want to attack it for fear of retaliation.

Globalists try to scupper it
No, we "globalists" repeatedly destroy it with rational arguments.

To learn it or to ensure people don't start to grasp it?
Because we care about the truth.
If you have a model which actually makes sense, we want to know about it.
If it is just delusional nonsense, then we will attack it because all it takes for BS to triumph is for intelligent people to say nothing.

If you would keep your delusional nonsense to yourself, no one would give a damn.

But here we are arguing it.
Think about that.
Not much thought is required.
You have no defense for your nonsense so you need to pretend people showing it to be nonsense somehow magically makes it true.

I ask what it is and you explain that it's going to show mass being attracted to mass.
I ask what it proves.
You say gravity.
I ask how you can prove it's gravity
Again, do you understand what gravity is?
At the simple level, it is mass being attracted to other mass.

But again, yet another pathetic distraction to avoid admitting you have no thing to back up your nonsense.

A simple barometer is one experiment.
Which completely refutes your nonsense as it shows weight is not dependent upon pressure as your nonsense requires.

It is doing what it's expected from my side.
Yet you are completely unable to explain how it magically manages to do so.

I think there's enough experiments that prove it.
There are literally none.
You have provided literally none.

Tell me about this gravitational constant and this 1% or 2% discrepancy
The gravitational constant is a constant of proportionality in an inverse square law, specifically the one for gravity, i.e. F=GMm/r^2.
It is akin to that for the electrostatic force, F=kq1q2/r^2.
The 1 to 2% discrepancy isn't actually a discrepancy. It is experimental error as the results often performed especially by students don't use accurate enough equipment to measure it to the required level of accuracy.

The force is not gravity because gravity is nonsense.
No, it is gravity, because that is what gravity is defined as.
You dismiss gravity as nonsense because it shows your delusions to be wrong.
Even if you don't want to call it gravity, it clearly shows masses attract other masses, i.e. GRAVITY!

But I have explained it with denpressure. The whirlpool effect.
You have explained nothing.

You can't even something as basic as why things fall.

Hahab holyhsit jack.
You can wave off all this rabble with a single reply.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2677 on: December 20, 2018, 02:03:20 PM »


So let's look at it this way. Cavendish experiment exhibits what convention thinks of as gravity; masses attract each other, calculations ensue, blah, blah, blah. Fine. But CavendishX does not exhibit any semblance of den pressure. So, is there an experiment that exhibits den pressure, but does not exhibit gravity?
Let's say we are sat in  a room. You have the Cavendish experiment in front of you. I ask what it is and you explain that it's going to show mass being attracted to mass.
I ask what it proves.
You say gravity.
I ask how you can prove it's gravity and do you have absolute proof of it so when I walk away I can be under no illusions about anything other than what you tell me.


Over to you.

You completely dodged the question. It actually doesn't matter what canvendishx shows or doesn't. The point is that it's unrelated and non-exhibiting of anything to do with the den pressure hypothesis. The question is, is there an experiment that exhibits den pressure, but does not exhibit/can be confused with gravity? Just like cavendishx supposedly exhibits gravity but exhibits nothing and cannot be confused with den pressure. Get it?

(And a barometer is not an answer, it measures atmospheric pressure, not den pressure.)

Semi corrdct.
Cacendish can be conducted but other factors need to be isolated against.
Creating a controlled varibale against other magic forces like gravity, magnetism, string torsion (shown in video), sealed pressurized room against denP.

So back to my lead block in a tank example.
That isolates gravity and atmospheric pressure by having two scales inside outsdie with a sealed tank, and ability to pressurize to different pressures.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2678 on: December 20, 2018, 02:05:33 PM »
But
No more questions about gravity caven related topics.

Apparently mocules of air do not move in and out of pressure vessels via pumps.
Instead the pump stack unstacks the air agaibst the pressure of the atmosphere.

So
That said.

Does scpeti breathe air?
How do our lungs work????????



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29silhouette

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2679 on: December 20, 2018, 09:15:29 PM »

2:55-3:10
We live in a pressurised whirlpool at the centre which spans out as far as life itself can live as the outer dome foundation slopes up,
Basically agitated from the centre where our carbon arc sun is inside the centre of that slope. We call that the north pole and the outer slope (dome foundation) would be a supposed south pole, yet in theory the south would be down the north pole slope where the central Earth sun is that is feeding from the atmospheric whirlpool.

This naturally creates pressured movement by agitation/vibration of matter which would be felt in varying ways from large to extremely small...including the minutely moveable pivoted masses.
That doesn't explain why they move toward eachother.


Quote
Quote from: 29silhouette
If your space is a true vacuum or not attached particles/molecules, then it simply cannot exist to be anything other than fiction.
Why not?
No vibrational frequencies.
Because it's a vaccum?



Quote from: rabinoz
A tree branch collapses under the weight of accumulated snow whether or not a person measures it or even observes it.
A tree branch collapses under the mass of snow pushing into the atmosphere and the atmosphere crushing back to break it.
The snow flakes formed above and traveled down.  Doesn't that mean the air they displaced should be forcing them back up?


So let's look at it this way. Cavendish experiment exhibits what convention thinks of as gravity; masses attract each other, calculations ensue, blah, blah, blah. Fine. But CavendishX does not exhibit any semblance of den pressure. So, is there an experiment that exhibits den pressure, but does not exhibit gravity?
Let's say we are sat in  a room. You have the Cavendish experiment in front of you. I ask what it is and you explain that it's going to show mass being attracted to mass.
I ask what it proves.
You say gravity.
I ask how you can prove it's gravity and do you have absolute proof of it so when I walk away I can be under no illusions about anything other than what you tell me.


Over to you.
The smaller bearing at the ends of the hanging strut weren't moving.  The bowling balls were placed, and then the bearings moved toward the bowling balls.  if the bowling balls were moved through the air into place and the air molecules were displaced and stacked away in the direction of movement, why didn't the bearings move away with all that air pushing toward them?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2680 on: December 21, 2018, 12:20:20 AM »
G= 6.67408x10-11 m3/kgs2 and the results of the Cavendish experiment will result in a value ±1% of that number.  What's so hard about experiment results being ± some amount of a known value?

However, I’m not taking the bate and getting into a protracted discussion about a single value while you avoid the implications of the Cavendish experiment.
G= 6.67408x10-11 m3/kgs2
Just explain what the above means in physical terms in life that shows it to prove gravity.

No need to go into a dig frenzy at me. Just explain what that number means to you in terms of a proof of gravity.
What are we measuring here with that set of numbers?
In the most basic terms that convinced you and others like you that this is the real deal for gravity.
Never mind the gunk about not taking the bait. This isn't about taking any bait. It's about you lot trying to ridicule my theory by using your scripted nonsense and when you are called on it to explain it, it becomes " I'm not taking your bait."

Come on, prove what you're saying that gives you authority to dismiss denpressure.

Quote from: MicroBeta
Here is just a few reasons why your silly-ass whirlpool effect is just strawman-garbage. 
- In the typical commercially available apparatus the torsion balance is contained with a chamber so that it isn’t subject to random air currents.
Ok fair enough. Where did you observe this experiment and can you tell me what was done and how it was done, with whatever mass used in the experiment...etc?

 
Quote from: MicroBeta
- You can vary the placement of the masses to cause the balance to move in either direction...so definitely not subject to silly-ass whirlpools.


Ok, so explain the varied placements that show whatever it shows.

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inquisitive

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2681 on: December 21, 2018, 01:26:59 AM »
G= 6.67408x10-11 m3/kgs2 and the results of the Cavendish experiment will result in a value ±1% of that number.  What's so hard about experiment results being ± some amount of a known value?

However, I’m not taking the bate and getting into a protracted discussion about a single value while you avoid the implications of the Cavendish experiment.
G= 6.67408x10-11 m3/kgs2
Just explain what the above means in physical terms in life that shows it to prove gravity.

No need to go into a dig frenzy at me. Just explain what that number means to you in terms of a proof of gravity.
What are we measuring here with that set of numbers?
In the most basic terms that convinced you and others like you that this is the real deal for gravity.
Never mind the gunk about not taking the bait. This isn't about taking any bait. It's about you lot trying to ridicule my theory by using your scripted nonsense and when you are called on it to explain it, it becomes " I'm not taking your bait."

Come on, prove what you're saying that gives you authority to dismiss denpressure.

Quote from: MicroBeta
Here is just a few reasons why your silly-ass whirlpool effect is just strawman-garbage. 
- In the typical commercially available apparatus the torsion balance is contained with a chamber so that it isn’t subject to random air currents.
Ok fair enough. Where did you observe this experiment and can you tell me what was done and how it was done, with whatever mass used in the experiment...etc?

 
Quote from: MicroBeta
- You can vary the placement of the masses to cause the balance to move in either direction...so definitely not subject to silly-ass whirlpools.


Ok, so explain the varied placements that show whatever it shows.
Explained here http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk/age16-19/Mechanics/Gravitation/text/Newtons_law_of_gravitation/index.html

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2682 on: December 21, 2018, 01:42:51 AM »
Red herring guys
He doesnt believe results are from gravity.

Keep to denp.
A pump does not move air but merely stacks unstacks against the atmospher's push.
If thats the case, how does scepit manage to breathe?

Still dodging.
How does one breathe?

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Stash

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2683 on: December 21, 2018, 02:23:30 AM »
Ok fair enough. Where did you observe this experiment and can you tell me what was done and how it was done, with whatever mass used in the experiment...etc

Actually the question is quite simple and you have yet to address it. Is there an experiment that demonstrates den pressure that can't be readily also easily explained by another phenomenon?

a) Yes
b) No

Me thinks the answer is b. That being the case all you have is a notion that you believe replicates what is commonly referred to as gravitation. And without being able to demonstrate any distinguishing capabilities of den pressure all you have is a notion. And that notion has a whole host of reliant phenomena required that has never been observed by humans, e.g., crystals, domes, arc something or other, etc. It's nothing more than middle earth, GoT's fantastical fiction.

It's fine to hold a world view that is contrary to convention, be skeptical of what we are taught, etc. But at the end of the day, there are no distinguishing empirical experiments to support your notion. Nor is there any empirically derived evidence of all the other elements required to support your notion. So believe what you want, but it's not science. It's unsupported by anything other than you just saying so. That just won't do.

a or b?

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JackBlack

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Re: Den Pressure - An undefinable guess with no experiments
« Reply #2684 on: December 21, 2018, 02:34:47 AM »
Just explain what the above means in physical terms in life that shows it to prove gravity.
Or how about you quit with the distractions and try and provide an experiment to prove your nonsense?
Or try providing an explanation for why things fall?

Until you provide an experiment, any discuss of gravity as a comparison is just a pathetic distraction.

Now provide an experiment or explain why things fall.
You are yet to do either.

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MicroBeta

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2685 on: December 21, 2018, 03:53:59 AM »
G= 6.67408x10-11 m3/kgs2 and the results of the Cavendish experiment will result in a value ±1% of that number.  What's so hard about experiment results being ± some amount of a known value?

However, I’m not taking the bate and getting into a protracted discussion about a single value while you avoid the implications of the Cavendish experiment.
G= 6.67408x10-11 m3/kgs2
Just explain what the above means in physical terms in life that shows it to prove gravity.

No need to go into a dig frenzy at me. Just explain what that number means to you in terms of a proof of gravity.
What are we measuring here with that set of numbers?
In the most basic terms that convinced you and others like you that this is the real deal for gravity.
Never mind the gunk about not taking the bait. This isn't about taking any bait. It's about you lot trying to ridicule my theory by using your scripted nonsense and when you are called on it to explain it, it becomes " I'm not taking your bait."

Come on, prove what you're saying that gives you authority to dismiss denpressure.
Gives me the authority?  Seriously?  What gives you the authority to dismiss all of modern science, physics, and engineering?

Stop with the misdirection’s.  I’m not a fisherman.  I’m not going to explain with a few lines in a forum post what took a couple of classes and a chapter to cover in my college physics class.  You can’t bait me into going off on some tangent so stop trying (or is that you need someone to explain the classical physics for something so you can formulate a denpressure equivalent after the fact).

BTW, I don’t need any authority.  The fact is you are the one dismissing all of current science, physics, and engineering.  The onus is on you to show why gravity doesn’t exist, why atoms don’t exist but yet for some reason molecules do (could it be that you need them for denpressure to work so it’s a compromise you’re willing to make)...just why everything we know is wrong.  That does not mean just explaining denpressure.  It means explaining why something is wrong and why denpressure makes it right.  Something you CANNOT do.

Quote from: MicroBeta
Here is just a few reasons why your silly-ass whirlpool effect is just strawman-garbage. 
- In the typical commercially available apparatus the torsion balance is contained with a chamber so that it isn’t subject to random air currents.
Ok fair enough. Where did you observe this experiment and can you tell me what was done and how it was done, with whatever mass used in the experiment...etc?
I didn’t observe it.  I actually did this experiment in high school with my aeronautics club.  You are nuts if you think I’m going to write the paragraphs it would take to describe what we did in 1978 in a high school club. 

For your information, this link gives a very detailed set of procedures.  I remember we calculated the Gravitational Constant twice with the external masses on opposite sides of the balance. 

https://www.pasco.com/file_downloads/Downloads_Manuals/Gravitational-Torsion-Balance-Manual-AP-8215A.pdf
Quote from: MicroBeta
- You can vary the placement of the masses to cause the balance to move in either direction...so definitely not subject to silly-ass whirlpools.


Ok, so explain the varied placements that show whatever it shows.

However, the real reason for the link is to explain what I mean by moving or reversing the mases.  If you look on page 11 of the pdf (page 9 of the document) figure 16 shows position 1 and position 2 of the masses.  Although IIRC, the one we used in ’78 was similar; larger and bit more crude but functionally the same.  The external masses were actually shotputs and the ones on the balance were lead balls that Mr. Whats-his-name (I can’t remember now) got from a local engineering firm.   

The important thing here is that you have to put the balance in equilibrium prior to starting.  The pdf makes it seem easy to zero out the balance but I do remember that it took us nearly two days of trial and error to get it right.  The force between the masses overcomes that equilibrium and the tension in whatever is used as a torsional spring to move the balance to external masses.  Preforming the experiment with the external masses in position 1 will cause the balance to in the opposite direction than with the external masses in position 2.  This is a clear proof of attraction between masses.

I will ask again.  How does denpressure explain why the balance will always move towards the masses even in a system where external forces such as air currents are eliminated?  Whirlpools ain't the answer.

Mike
Since it costs 2.72¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 5.44¢.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2686 on: December 21, 2018, 04:25:51 AM »

Tanks is sealed.
Thats the point.
Yes but no atmosphere in the tank.
Completely filled with water and with the lead block.
Tahts the experiment.
Isolating the variable called atmospheric prssure.
Thats how you run a test.

Hypothesis - surrounding pressure pushes things down due to displaced volume.
Under pressure did the block get heavier?
You need to get it right before you start coming out with this stuff. I've crossed out your mistake.

So let me go through this again with you.

You have a tank on your table (for instance).
Inside that tank you place a lead block on a set of scales.
You fill that tank full of water through a valve until all the atmosphere is expelled from it by the water.
The tank is obviously sealed with only the valve as a source for water input and shut off so the water tank is now sitting on the table with the scales inside and the lead block on the scale plate.

 So what are you expecting?


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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2687 on: December 21, 2018, 04:44:53 AM »
You completely dodged the question. It actually doesn't matter what canvendishx shows or doesn't.
The point is that it's unrelated and non-exhibiting of anything to do with the den pressure hypothesis.
Then don't use it to argue a point.

Quote from: Stash
The question is, is there an experiment that exhibits den pressure, but does not exhibit/can be confused with gravity?
Yep. It's a mercury barometer among many other things.

Quote from: Stash
Just like cavendishx supposedly exhibits gravity but exhibits nothing and cannot be confused with den pressure. Get it?
Nope I don't get it. Why?
Because you profess to know what gravity is and adhere to it when you actually don't...but you then argue that denpressure needs to be different from it in terms of showing you something physical.
The point is a barometer shows it.


Quote from: Stash
(And a barometer is not an answer, it measures atmospheric pressure, not den pressure.)
A barometer is one good answer. It measures atmospheric pressure upon a dense mass (mercury) and the resistance of that mass to it. . Denpressure.

Simple and measurable with a man made measuring gauge.
No need for fictional nonsense like gravity.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2688 on: December 21, 2018, 04:53:20 AM »

OK describe in detail an experiment with a "simple barometer" that will provide evidence fordenpressure as a better explanation than gravity and air pressure.

And your experiment should be applicable to both a mercury barometer and an aneroid barometer - accurate ones give the same measurement of atmospheric pressure.
Aircraft altimeters are simply accurate aneroid barometers and they have to be quite accurate.

PS An aneroid barometer reads exactly the same whatever it's angle to the vertical.
It doesn't matter what barometer is used. They all rely on denpressure.
They rely on atmospheric pressure upon a dense mass, whether it's mercury in a bowl with upturned tube or a  sealed cylinder with a low pressure of air inside, with that cylinder or container having a collapsible metal cover that distorts under the pressure of that atmosphere and is allowed to by the low pressure of atmosphere inside of it allowing that collapse but also having enough to be pushed back when external atmospheric pressure is lower.


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sokarul

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2689 on: December 21, 2018, 04:58:15 AM »
Remember when you claimed to have preformed an experiment but people had to pm you to get the results?  Where are they now?

How do we breathe?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2690 on: December 21, 2018, 05:11:09 AM »
Volume density blah.
Like i said before - Keep changing word meanings and continue to be misunderstood.   Aw poor you.   Not my issue.

But enpugh of that.
no more red herrings.

How does an air pump work?
What happens to the air inside a pressure vessel when its pumped out?
How does that compare to breathing?


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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2691 on: December 21, 2018, 05:25:52 AM »

2:55-3:10
We live in a pressurised whirlpool at the centre which spans out as far as life itself can live as the outer dome foundation slopes up,
Basically agitated from the centre where our carbon arc sun is inside the centre of that slope. We call that the north pole and the outer slope (dome foundation) would be a supposed south pole, yet in theory the south would be down the north pole slope where the central Earth sun is that is feeding from the atmospheric whirlpool.

This naturally creates pressured movement by agitation/vibration of matter which would be felt in varying ways from large to extremely small...including the minutely moveable pivoted masses.
That doesn't explain why they move toward eachother.
Expansion and contraction of matter causing the vibration. Once you add energy to create expansion, you create a wave and that wave will carry on until the expansion has been equalised by a dense mass of molecular compression upon that expanded mass.



Quote from: 29silhouette

Quote
Quote from: 29silhouette
If your space is a true vacuum or not attached particles/molecules, then it simply cannot exist to be anything other than fiction.
Why not?
No vibrational frequencies.
Because it's a vaccum?
No such thing as a vacuum. It's lower pressure, but pressure nonetheless.


Quote from: 29silhouette


Quote from: rabinoz
A tree branch collapses under the weight of accumulated snow whether or not a person measures it or even observes it.
A tree branch collapses under the mass of snow pushing into the atmosphere and the atmosphere crushing back to break it.
The snow flakes formed above and traveled down.  Doesn't that mean the air they displaced should be forcing them back up?
The tree branch acts as the foundation for the snow. It acts as a resistance to it.
The more mass that is pushing into the atmosphere (snow) by usage of that foundation, will eventually bend and snap that branch, assuming it's not unbalanced and collapses under pressure of it's own molecular resistance against the branch and atmosphere.



Quote from: 29silhouette

So let's look at it this way. Cavendish experiment exhibits what convention thinks of as gravity; masses attract each other, calculations ensue, blah, blah, blah. Fine. But CavendishX does not exhibit any semblance of den pressure. So, is there an experiment that exhibits den pressure, but does not exhibit gravity?
Let's say we are sat in  a room. You have the Cavendish experiment in front of you. I ask what it is and you explain that it's going to show mass being attracted to mass.
I ask what it proves.
You say gravity.
I ask how you can prove it's gravity and do you have absolute proof of it so when I walk away I can be under no illusions about anything other than what you tell me.


Over to you.
The smaller bearing at the ends of the hanging strut weren't moving.  The bowling balls were placed, and then the bearings moved toward the bowling balls.  if the bowling balls were moved through the air into place and the air molecules were displaced and stacked away in the direction of movement, why didn't the bearings move away with all that air pushing toward them?
When you sit on a bus or in a car you do not feel the initial added pressure of movement into horizontal atmosphere but you know it's a pressure externally if you were to open a window and put your hand out.
If the bus is deflecting that atmosphere away, it's compressing it and creating a higher pressure in front than what the atmospheric pressure is all around it.
That creates a wave.
Internally it also creates a pressurised compression in the bus or car but you don't feel it on a consistent run in terms of mph, yet that atmosphere in the car or bus is compressed a little more.
Under acceleration is compresses much more and you feel that.

You place a mass on a pivot and that pivot will move if there's any slight change in the compression/expansion of the room it is is, no matter how small.
The only difference is in how long it will take for a mass to move on a pivot towards another mass.

Pretty simple really and has no need for fictional gravity. Just an potential understanding of how the Earth cell works.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2692 on: December 21, 2018, 05:30:21 AM »


 
Quote from: MicroBeta
- You can vary the placement of the masses to cause the balance to move in either direction...so definitely not subject to silly-ass whirlpools.


Ok, so explain the varied placements that show whatever it shows.
Explained here http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk/age16-19/Mechanics/Gravitation/text/Newtons_law_of_gravitation/index.html
I'm well aware your platter is full to enable you to lazily dine.
I want to know how you know what it all says by your own proof's, not your own acceptance without reason or care.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2693 on: December 21, 2018, 05:31:27 AM »
Red herring guys
He doesnt believe results are from gravity.

Keep to denp.
A pump does not move air but merely stacks unstacks against the atmospher's push.
If thats the case, how does scepit manage to breathe?

Still dodging.
How does one breathe?
Understand the stacking system before you try to understand the human body and expecting me to give you some kind of biology lesson.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2694 on: December 21, 2018, 05:40:49 AM »
Ok fair enough. Where did you observe this experiment and can you tell me what was done and how it was done, with whatever mass used in the experiment...etc

Actually the question is quite simple and you have yet to address it. Is there an experiment that demonstrates den pressure that can't be readily also easily explained by another phenomenon?

a) Yes
b) No

Me thinks the answer is b. That being the case all you have is a notion that you believe replicates what is commonly referred to as gravitation. And without being able to demonstrate any distinguishing capabilities of den pressure all you have is a notion. And that notion has a whole host of reliant phenomena required that has never been observed by humans, e.g., crystals, domes, arc something or other, etc. It's nothing more than middle earth, GoT's fantastical fiction.

It's fine to hold a world view that is contrary to convention, be skeptical of what we are taught, etc. But at the end of the day, there are no distinguishing empirical experiments to support your notion. Nor is there any empirically derived evidence of all the other elements required to support your notion. So believe what you want, but it's not science. It's unsupported by anything other than you just saying so. That just won't do.

a or b?
(A)...
The mercury barometer is one massive proof. It's right there in your face but you choose gravity for no other reason than your text books and word of mass mouth or peers to pressure you into following that narrative.

That's as simple as it gets.

Don't take that as a dig because we were all brainwashed with a lot of it during our lives. I'm just old enough to realise how badly duped we are, so now I question it all and try and reason an alternative.

You'll never ever change my mind on the global system even if we lived another 1000 years. There's no spinning globe and no gravity.
Denpressure inside the cell we are all in as bacteria with a central energy core, fits much better and requires no magical notions. In my opinion of course.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - An undefinable guess with no experiments
« Reply #2695 on: December 21, 2018, 05:43:18 AM »
Just explain what the above means in physical terms in life that shows it to prove gravity.
Or how about you quit with the distractions and try and provide an experiment to prove your nonsense?
Or try providing an explanation for why things fall?

Until you provide an experiment, any discuss of gravity as a comparison is just a pathetic distraction.
A massive cop out, Jack. Answer the question and prove your gravity to me. Don't just give me nonsense about mass attracting mass. Show me gravity. Tell me what it is.

Quote from: JackBlack
Now provide an experiment or explain why things fall.
You are yet to do either.
I've provided enough for people to do. Your choice whether you do them.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2696 on: December 21, 2018, 05:44:04 AM »
Remember when you claimed to have preformed an experiment but people had to pm you to get the results?  Where are they now?

How do we breathe?
Stick to your other name.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2697 on: December 21, 2018, 05:48:35 AM »
Volume density blah.
Like i said before - Keep changing word meanings and continue to be misunderstood.   Aw poor you.   Not my issue.
Try and understand it and you might move forward. As it is you're at square one.
Your blah blah's don't help you and certainly don't matter to me.

Quote from: Themightykabool
But enpugh of that.
no more red herrings.

How does an air pump work?
You've had that explained to you. Look back and find it and next time take notice instead of looking fo back pats from so called internet scientist friends when you have a little dig. It doesn't help you but does make me smile.

Quote from: Themightykabool
What happens to the air inside a pressure vessel when its pumped out?

This has also been explained to you.
Your memory is terrible.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2698 on: December 21, 2018, 05:56:02 AM »
Vacuum doesnt exist and neither do your chances at wining the power ball lottery.
Near nothing is almost almost and can be considerred nothing when compared... but that is a red herring because youve defined molecules as stacking unstacking and expanding.

Humans breathing isnt as complex as hormone or gene therapy.
This is air in.
Air out.
Bad air kils you.
But yo claim air doesnt actually move.wahts going on?
Dodge somemore

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Themightykabool

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #2699 on: December 21, 2018, 05:56:44 AM »
It is perfectly reasonable if you say "i dont have an answer for that".