Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

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Aliveandkicking

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1200 on: August 28, 2016, 02:59:15 AM »
The larger the container being evacuated, the more pressure upon that container

Correct in that there is more force upon the container when it is bigger, because there are more square inches of the same small pressure difference per square inch

and the stronger the force of the pump needed to stop that evacuated pressure from being pushed back inside the chamber.

False.  A pressure gauge has no ability to tell us what size tubing or container is connected to the gauge.  It just records the pressure difference in the container compared to the surroundings of the pressure gauge.

We can can create an experiment to test that 

1.  Lets say we use 1 meter of water in a water gauge which enables us to have approximately 0.1 an atmosphere or 0.1 bar   

2. If we start off with a small container we can create 0.1 bar by allowing the water to flow down a long tube until the water in the tube shows a height difference of 1M

3. We can then repeat this experiment with a larger container and another tube filled with water and arrange the water and tube so a height difference of 1m is achieved in the tube.  This time we need more tubing to reduce the larger volume by allowing the water to flow a longer distance along the tube.   Ulitimately the height difference is the same 1 m

4. We can put a third water gauge between the two containers which will not show any difference in the height of the water providing everything is the same temperature throughout the entire system of pipes and containers we are using.
Who's talking about pressure gauges?

I don't think I can go any further with you. I'll just say to you; stick to what you think you know and just go with it.

Agreed.  I will stick to experimentation and the accumulated results of the last few hundred years.

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Omega

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1201 on: August 28, 2016, 03:00:08 AM »

How about you explain what's happening and if you're correct, then I'll go along with it. If you're not correct, I'll explain the truth.

How about you listen to Mr Wizard, who explains it perfectly? Or are you saying you want me to write a transcript? This video is completely self-explanatory.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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zork

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1202 on: August 28, 2016, 03:03:32 AM »
If you have a mind for logic and questioning then you should use it for that and do it for you. Do it because you want to figure out reality and try to dispel fiction that is told to you as fact.
I would like to think that I have mind for logic and questioning but I also have basic knowledge about things what they teach in this time. I also have dabbled a little in electronics in low level (what is  electricity and how it works and tranistors and computer chips and silicon and so on) and learned some chemistry. If you do experiments and put things together and they work like theory says they work then I see no reason to throw out current knowledege to some not yet proven hypothesis. And as I see it you don't really figure out reality. You have taken stance that everything we know is false/wrong and now you are on quest to put something else in that place. Something like teenage rebel.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1203 on: August 28, 2016, 03:05:23 AM »
Wait, you said we live in a cell, and you decided to call it a molecule. But later you said that inside this cell are molecules. Can you explain?
What I mean was, if our Earth was being viewed (theoretically/imaginary) from the point of some super giant looking at it as a molecule or atom or piece of matter (you apply another name if it bothers you), then we would be the make up inside of it.

Anyway just forget about that, It's not important enough to blur the lines.
Also, I would be very very pleased if you could use proper names for all of your different components of your model, instead of saying things like "molecules/atoms/matter or whatever name is or wants to be used about them". Because I get a bit confused as to exactly what you are talking about sometimes.

But otherwise I think I get it. So, we live in this "cell" that made up of lots of bits of matter (It would be nice if you would give this piece of matter some name. Don't name it an atom or molecule, it would be confusing). All the matter is connected, so there can't be any vacuum between them. And if two pieces of matter are pushed together really hard, one of them swallows the other and they form a "jawbreaker" (once again, a proper name would be nice), which changes how that piece of two bits of matter behaves (we get a new element/material).
Basically you're starting to get the gist of it. Just nibble away at it and feel free to add names to whatever is confusing you.

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Aliveandkicking

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1204 on: August 28, 2016, 03:06:47 AM »
nearly every year the scientists come back to us with a change in concepts.

For the physics required for this conversation there have been no changes in at least the last 160 years.     You are claiming pressure gauges are recording results which anybody can show you are not correct using the very simplest of equipment you can buy in a hardware store for about 20 dollars.

The larger the container being evacuated......the stronger the force of the pump needed to stop that evacuated pressure from being pushed back inside the chamber.

False
Nah it's not false at all.

You can easily prove it to yourself if you use logic.

Go and put a large container in a large pool. Attach a pump to it. Make sure the container is full of water with no air inside of it and make sure it is solid. A big glass or solid plastic see through container will suffice.

Ok now your glass container is sat at the bottom of your pool and your attached underwater pump is laid on the bottom with the pipe for getting the water out of the container.

From this point on I want you, or anyone else to tell me what happens when the pump is started?

If the pump can create a reasonably low pressure of about .1bar all of the liquid water will be removed from a strong glass container and it is likely the container will be bouyant in the water

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Omega

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1205 on: August 28, 2016, 03:09:19 AM »
But scepti,

Since you already confirmed that the experiments with vacuum pumps do in fact prove that only the air prevents objects from falling at the same speed, why do you cling to the rest of the theory?

You yourself have disproven your own hypothesis?

I know why you ignored me the first time. That's what you do if you don't find a way out.

That's why I ask again:

If objects fall at the same speed when the air is removed (YOU confirmed this, remember. You said that the reason objects don't fall at the same speed is because not all the air was removed. That logically leads to one conclusion) then how can air play a part in keeping stuff to the ground? Of even make them fall in the first place?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 03:10:56 AM by Omega »
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1206 on: August 28, 2016, 03:13:16 AM »

How about you explain what's happening and if you're correct, then I'll go along with it. If you're not correct, I'll explain the truth.

How about you listen to Mr Wizard, who explains it perfectly? Or are you saying you want me to write a transcript? This video is completely self-explanatory.
It doesn't accurately explain what's happening.
He was using the wrong words as well.
How about you put him right.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1207 on: August 28, 2016, 03:23:10 AM »
If you have a mind for logic and questioning then you should use it for that and do it for you. Do it because you want to figure out reality and try to dispel fiction that is told to you as fact.
I would like to think that I have mind for logic and questioning but I also have basic knowledge about things what they teach in this time. I also have dabbled a little in electronics in low level (what is  electricity and how it works and tranistors and computer chips and silicon and so on) and learned some chemistry. If you do experiments and put things together and they work like theory says they work then I see no reason to throw out current knowledege to some not yet proven hypothesis. And as I see it you don't really figure out reality. You have taken stance that everything we know is false/wrong and now you are on quest to put something else in that place. Something like teenage rebel.
I won't go into any detail except to say this.
If the actual Earth we live on/in is under question - and in seriously is - then it stands to reason that everything we've been told needs to also come into question.

It doesn't matter what you're told about how something works, it's about being able to prove it from the bottom up.

You're quite happy to accept things fall because of gravity. It matters not to you that there's no explanation for it, as long as it is officially the reason.




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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1208 on: August 28, 2016, 03:25:05 AM »
nearly every year the scientists come back to us with a change in concepts.

For the physics required for this conversation there have been no changes in at least the last 160 years.     You are claiming pressure gauges are recording results which anybody can show you are not correct using the very simplest of equipment you can buy in a hardware store for about 20 dollars.

The larger the container being evacuated......the stronger the force of the pump needed to stop that evacuated pressure from being pushed back inside the chamber.

False
Nah it's not false at all.

You can easily prove it to yourself if you use logic.

Go and put a large container in a large pool. Attach a pump to it. Make sure the container is full of water with no air inside of it and make sure it is solid. A big glass or solid plastic see through container will suffice.

Ok now your glass container is sat at the bottom of your pool and your attached underwater pump is laid on the bottom with the pipe for getting the water out of the container.

From this point on I want you, or anyone else to tell me what happens when the pump is started?

If the pump can create a reasonably low pressure of about .1bar all of the liquid water will be removed from a strong glass container and it is likely the container will be bouyant in the water
Let's stick to our agreement.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1209 on: August 28, 2016, 03:26:34 AM »
But scepti,

Since you already confirmed that the experiments with vacuum pumps do in fact prove that only the air prevents objects from falling at the same speed, why do you cling to the rest of the theory?

You yourself have disproven your own hypothesis?

I know why you ignored me the first time. That's what you do if you don't find a way out.

That's why I ask again:

If objects fall at the same speed when the air is removed (YOU confirmed this, remember. You said that the reason objects don't fall at the same speed is because not all the air was removed. That logically leads to one conclusion) then how can air play a part in keeping stuff to the ground? Of even make them fall in the first place?
Just remember to pay attention to all replies and it'll save you time on typing stuff like this out.

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Omega

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1210 on: August 28, 2016, 03:35:51 AM »

How about you explain what's happening and if you're correct, then I'll go along with it. If you're not correct, I'll explain the truth.

How about you listen to Mr Wizard, who explains it perfectly? Or are you saying you want me to write a transcript? This video is completely self-explanatory.
It doesn't accurately explain what's happening.
He was using the wrong words as well.
How about you put him right.

He accurately describes what *will* happen. He even makes the adorable girl make predictions, that turn out to be completely accurate.

He also shows that the porous marshmallows are filled with pockets of air, and that if the outside pressure is lowered, the air in the bubbles expands. Because there is no pressure outside the marshmallows to keep everything in balance.

If you can find fault with what he says, I think it is up to you to explain the error, and prove that the error exists.

If not, your entire case blew up. Again.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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Aliveandkicking

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1211 on: August 28, 2016, 03:42:30 AM »
nearly every year the scientists come back to us with a change in concepts.

For the physics required for this conversation there have been no changes in at least the last 160 years.     You are claiming pressure gauges are recording results which anybody can show you are not correct using the very simplest of equipment you can buy in a hardware store for about 20 dollars.

The larger the container being evacuated......the stronger the force of the pump needed to stop that evacuated pressure from being pushed back inside the chamber.

False
Nah it's not false at all.

You can easily prove it to yourself if you use logic.

Go and put a large container in a large pool. Attach a pump to it. Make sure the container is full of water with no air inside of it and make sure it is solid. A big glass or solid plastic see through container will suffice.

Ok now your glass container is sat at the bottom of your pool and your attached underwater pump is laid on the bottom with the pipe for getting the water out of the container.

From this point on I want you, or anyone else to tell me what happens when the pump is started?

If the pump can create a reasonably low pressure of about .1bar all of the liquid water will be removed from a strong glass container and it is likely the container will be bouyant in the water
Let's stick to our agreement.

So you want an experiment or you just want to ensure your beliefs remain the same?


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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1212 on: August 28, 2016, 03:45:23 AM »

How about you explain what's happening and if you're correct, then I'll go along with it. If you're not correct, I'll explain the truth.

How about you listen to Mr Wizard, who explains it perfectly? Or are you saying you want me to write a transcript? This video is completely self-explanatory.
It doesn't accurately explain what's happening.
He was using the wrong words as well.
How about you put him right.

He accurately describes what *will* happen. He even makes the adorable girl make predictions, that turn out to be completely accurate.

He also shows that the porous marshmallows are filled with pockets of air, and that if the outside pressure is lowered, the air in the bubbles expands. Because there is no pressure outside the marshmallows to keep everything in balance.

If you can find fault with what he says, I think it is up to you to explain the error, and prove that the error exists.

If not, your entire case blew up. Again.
There's a lot you can learn from that video if you look at it and understand it properly.
OOh and I didn't realise you were female.

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Omega

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1213 on: August 28, 2016, 03:47:38 AM »
There's a lot you can learn from that video if you look at it and understand it properly.

Enlighten me.

Quote
OOh and I didn't realise you were female.

Are you coming on to me?
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1214 on: August 28, 2016, 03:49:50 AM »
There's a lot you can learn from that video if you look at it and understand it properly.

Enlighten me.

Quote
OOh and I didn't realise you were female.

Are you coming on to me?
I'll enlighten those who wih to know. You're not interested.
Also, no I'm not coming onto you, I just didn't realise you were female.

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Omega

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1215 on: August 28, 2016, 04:08:35 AM »
There's a lot you can learn from that video if you look at it and understand it properly.

Enlighten me.

Quote
OOh and I didn't realise you were female.

Are you coming on to me?
I'll enlighten those who wih to know. You're not interested.
Also, no I'm not coming onto you, I just didn't realise you were female.

Damn talk about a cop out. I ask you to prove your point, and you say 'nah I don't feel like it'/

That means you can't prove your point. Put up or shut up.

Also, I am very curious to know how you would ascertain my gender based on my text?

You know what, never mind that.

Just prove your friggin' point or admit defeat.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1216 on: August 28, 2016, 04:13:47 AM »
There's a lot you can learn from that video if you look at it and understand it properly.

Enlighten me.

Quote
OOh and I didn't realise you were female.

Are you coming on to me?
I'll enlighten those who wih to know. You're not interested.
Also, no I'm not coming onto you, I just didn't realise you were female.

Damn talk about a cop out. I ask you to prove your point, and you say 'nah I don't feel like it'/

That means you can't prove your point. Put up or shut up.

Also, I am very curious to know how you would ascertain my gender based on my text?

You know what, never mind that.

Just prove your friggin' point or admit defeat.
You're too nasty and frenzied to bother with. I'll explain it to someone who is genuine.

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zork

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1217 on: August 28, 2016, 04:26:39 AM »
It doesn't matter what you're told about how something works, it's about being able to prove it from the bottom up.

You're quite happy to accept things fall because of gravity. It matters not to you that there's no explanation for it, as long as it is officially the reason.

  I've said that I have some hands-on experience so I am not taking things as they are because I have been told so. And you are never in your lifetime are going to prove things from the bottom to all way up. Only thing you are going to do is making hypotheses. As for gravity, there is explanation for it. Difference is that I get it, not all of it but at least some of it  but you don't and you even to bother to get what it is about. Its easier for you to devise something else than understand current state of things. And as I said earlier, lets see about a year what you have made up. I am 100% sure that you  are not significantly farther and there is still no real experiments about your hypothesis.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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Aliveandkicking

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1218 on: August 28, 2016, 04:31:01 AM »
There's a lot you can learn from that video if you look at it and understand it properly.

Enlighten me.

Quote
OOh and I didn't realise you were female.

Are you coming on to me?
I'll enlighten those who wih to know. You're not interested.
Also, no I'm not coming onto you, I just didn't realise you were female.

Damn talk about a cop out. I ask you to prove your point, and you say 'nah I don't feel like it'/

That means you can't prove your point. Put up or shut up.

Also, I am very curious to know how you would ascertain my gender based on my text?

You know what, never mind that.

Just prove your friggin' point or admit defeat.
You're too nasty and frenzied to bother with. I'll explain it to someone who is genuine.

Scepti being a woman might explain a few things.

As soon as you show she is wrong she pouts and says the does not want to see you any more.     She talks a great deal but there is no testosterone there at all.

There must be 20 guys hanging out here hoping for a result and it never comes.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 04:33:52 AM by Aliveandkicking »

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Master_Evar

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1219 on: August 28, 2016, 04:32:23 AM »
Also, I would be very very pleased if you could use proper names for all of your different components of your model, instead of saying things like "molecules/atoms/matter or whatever name is or wants to be used about them". Because I get a bit confused as to exactly what you are talking about sometimes.

But otherwise I think I get it. So, we live in this "cell" that made up of lots of bits of matter (It would be nice if you would give this piece of matter some name. Don't name it an atom or molecule, it would be confusing). All the matter is connected, so there can't be any vacuum between them. And if two pieces of matter are pushed together really hard, one of them swallows the other and they form a "jawbreaker" (once again, a proper name would be nice), which changes how that piece of two bits of matter behaves (we get a new element/material).
Basically you're starting to get the gist of it. Just nibble away at it and feel free to add names to whatever is confusing you.
But, don't you have names for these things? If you want people to understand your model, it's usually good to name things, so people know what you are talking about, and to make it easier than saying "expanding and retracting pieces of matter" or so that people don't think of the candy when you say "jawbreaker".

But okay. So, the next question: what are solids, what are liquids, what are gases, and what is plasma? As in, how does the matter behaves in a solid, how does it behave in a liquid, etc.?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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Omega

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1220 on: August 28, 2016, 04:39:43 AM »
You're too nasty and frenzied to bother with. I'll explain it to someone who is genuine.

I think you just find it annoying that I keep finding fault with each and every one of your ideas.

I think you really foamed at the mouth when you found out you yourself proved two objects of different mass fall at the same speed.

I think you are so worked up about the fact that you can't beat me, you are now curled up in a fetal position under your desk until you've shaken that 'bad feeling' (AKA doubt).

I think you are out of ammo and can't prove a damn thing.

I think you are really feeling terrible about this and you can't see a way out of it.

That's what I think.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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Slemon

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1221 on: August 28, 2016, 04:48:19 AM »
So what property of this arrangement causes problems when we connect a container of air to a pump and we continually remove an amount of air from the container via the pump?   What is the basis for Sceptimatics theory brian cox is an actor?

Sceptimatic told me all of the molecules are connected together and I am supposing he is saying they can never be separated so even after passing thru the pump the matter outside the pump is still connected physically to the matter in the  pump?
According to Scepti, the pump works basically by pushing air away from a vessel. As a result, molecules inside the vessel expand to prevent a vacuum forming, and get pushed out by the molecules inside the chamber that are trying to expand. There is a constant connection, under his model.

Yes, I didn't want explanation or discussion and your "explanation" only made things worse. You say that molecules expand to prevent vacuum forming but in same time you say that molecules are hollow balls. So, what is inside molecules if not vacuum? And if they expand can we get theoretically situation when one molecule fills for example one cubicmeter room? And still, what is inside molecul then. I guess its for sceptimatic to figure out and your explanations are just... inconsistent and not understandable. In that note I guess you really understand sceptimatic and maybe we can call you little scepti.
To my mind, it's pointless to ask a question if you don't want to see how it's answered. You said you didn't want to get involved in a discussion, not have an explanation,
For the molecule in the cubic-metre room, it's one of those things that might be theoretically possible, but would also rely on a ridiculous amount of force to both maintain the room against the pressure acting in, and to ensure it was the only molecule. It'd be like sending a continent into space (obvious caveat: under RET). While, theoretically, there's no reason it couldn't be done, you'd need ludicrous amounts of fuel and power.
Like I've said, inside the balls is a technicality I'm less concerned with, though by what Scepti's said hollow might not be quite the best term. Presumably can also expand to fill themselves, after a fashion: they're not rigid balls, they contort and stretch and compress as the situation demands. Enough force could still push one inside another, etc. His image of half a jawbreaker seems a fair depiction.

Scepti being a woman might explain a few things.

As soon as you show she is wrong she pouts and says the does not want to see you any more.     She talks a great deal but there is no testosterone there at all.

There must be 20 guys hanging out here hoping for a result and it never comes.
*waves*
Seriously?




No, it would many points but each point produces a different reflective light depending on distance and how we actually view it from certain vantage points.
Basically the sun is the moon and all other reflective things you see in that sky. Including stars which are just reflective points of light through crystal in the centre of Earth where the energy comes from.
 I know this needs a hell of a lot more explanation but we'll baby step this.
Where is the electrode depth-wise? Is it roughly at surface level, or is it underneath the North Pole, and the crystal referred to is the pole itself?
Sorry, having a little trouble visualising.

Quote
You don't get heat until you get the light. As you know, it''s wavelengths and merged wave lengths creating what we actually see and what we feel. Like the blue sky and a white or yellow or red sun.
I'll maybe have to go way further in explaining this but I don't want to jump right down deep just yet because I''ll be swamped by the usual ridiculing suspects. (Not you of course).

Sorry, this is where you've lost me. As far as I know, we don't need to see the light emitted by a heat source in order to feel the heat. Take, say, a kettle or a shower.
I'm aware, in that case, the analogy falters because technically we feel something that was heated, rather than the heat itself, but wouldn't we experience similar? If heat is just vibration, it'd be coming off the source of heat in all directions.
I hope that makes sense.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1222 on: August 28, 2016, 04:48:40 AM »
You're too nasty and frenzied to bother with. I'll explain it to someone who is genuine.

I think you just find it annoying that I keep finding fault with each and every one of your ideas.

I think you really foamed at the mouth when you found out you yourself proved two objects of different mass fall at the same speed.

I think you are so worked up about the fact that you can't beat me, you are now curled up in a fetal position under your desk until you've shaken that 'bad feeling' (AKA doubt).

I think you are out of ammo and can't prove a damn thing.

I think you are really feeling terrible about this and you can't see a way out of it.

That's what I think.

Wise words.

@Jane. Heat is just energy that causes vibration when applied to matter.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 04:51:22 AM by User324 »
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

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Globetrotter

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1223 on: August 28, 2016, 04:57:46 AM »

Answers for what exactly?  I already showed earlier that a video claiming to show objects falling at the same rate showed an apple falling faster in air than feathers falling in what was claimed to be a vacuum.

And as far as I could tell in the very poor quality video provided by myth busters, the myth busters demo of the same thing with a hammer appeared to show the hammer falling faster than the feathers.   

Other than that, I dont have anything to say about the videos produced to show how objects fall in a 'vacuum' at the same rate

There is still one unanswered question: "It's a simple question. If there is some gigantic heat and light source that comes from the center of the earth and reflects upon a dome high in the atmosphere, it follows that we should be able to see this light source, am I right? I'm not smirking. I am genuinely curious about how the sun works in your model. If for some reason we cannot see this light source from where it originates, why not?"

As regarding the answer about the hammer and feather:
IMAGINE. Imagine, that there is one pound of feathers and a hammer of ten pounds. Put the feathers into an air-tight bag and squeeze them very tightly, removing the air with regular vacuum cleaner. Hang the hammer on a regular size parachute, used by parachuters. Don't put the feathers on parachute. Now drop both the hammer and the bag of feathers from a flying airplane.
Now IMAGINE the same experiment, only in an environment without air. Just imagine. I even don't ask for conclusions.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 05:12:39 AM by Globetrotter »
"If you insist it is a spinning globe, then why are you here?" - Simple. To counter the misinformation you are spreading to uneducated, and gullible people. It is the duty of every thinking person to oppose those who would spread lies.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1224 on: August 28, 2016, 05:41:23 AM »

Where is the electrode depth-wise? Is it roughly at surface level, or is it underneath the North Pole, and the crystal referred to is the pole itself?
Sorry, having a little trouble visualising.

I don't know how far in it would be or exactly how big it all is in the centre. It would be covered with crystal/diamond and such like.
When north is mentioned, it really is UP but it isn't the north pole that people assume.
The north pole that people assume does not exist and is in fact what they believe is the south pole. It's just an inner ring of ice.
The so called outer ring cannot be reached.
I'm babbling again.
As far as I know, we don't need to see the light emitted by a heat source in order to feel the heat. Take, say, a kettle or a shower.
I'm aware, in that case, the analogy falters because technically we feel something that was heated, rather than the heat itself, but wouldn't we experience similar? If heat is just vibration, it'd be coming off the source of heat in all directions.
I hope that makes sense.
The light is always after the fact. there's no light without heat.
We are light and we don't see it unless we use special cameras.
We are just glowing heat sources to some organisms just like a fire-fly glows to us.
The issue is, everything is a heat source. Everything is a light source.
That's all we are and all everything is.

It's just wavelengths and frequencies that determine what we see and what we feel and what we hear.
It's all the same thing.

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1225 on: August 28, 2016, 05:52:53 AM »
The north pole that people assume does not exist and is in fact what they believe is the south pole. It's just an inner ring of ice.
The so called outer ring cannot be reached.

Ah, interesting mr flat.
How do you know an outer ring exists when it cannot be reached?
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Slemon

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1226 on: August 28, 2016, 06:56:39 AM »
I don't know how far in it would be or exactly how big it all is in the centre. It would be covered with crystal/diamond and such like.
That's fine, I didn't want exact figures, just trying to get a basic image. So, we'd have the light source inside the Earth at the pole, and it shines through the crystal above it casting various images.

So, currently I'm thinking of it as an electrode that gives off light in all direction, and constantly moves up and down (which, by the reel-illusion effect would make the Sun seem to slowly move to and from the centre) underneath a layer of crystal.

Is it the crystal that rotates, to project the various aspects of the light, or am I completely misunderstanding this?

Quote
When north is mentioned, it really is UP but it isn't the north pole that people assume.
The north pole that people assume does not exist and is in fact what they believe is the south pole. It's just an inner ring of ice.
The so called outer ring cannot be reached.
I'm babbling again.
I'm slightly lost here. I understand that we can't reach the very 'edge' of the Earth under your model, due to how cold it would get, so we're surrounded by a separate ring of ice.
Is that separate ring the North or South pole. And similar, which is in the centre? (And which one is the Sun at?)
I assumed the centre was the North where the Sun was, but I'm a bit confused now.

Quote
The light is always after the fact. there's no light without heat.
We are light and we don't see it unless we use special cameras.
We are just glowing heat sources to some organisms just like a fire-fly glows to us.
The issue is, everything is a heat source. Everything is a light source.
That's all we are and all everything is.

It's just wavelengths and frequencies that determine what we see and what we feel and what we hear.
It's all the same thing.
I understand the connection between heat and light, as far as being able to 'see' heat goes with the right equipment, I just don't understand how the same principle can be applied.
It might just be that I'm assuming science you don't accept, in which case let me know.
My understanding of the reel-illusion  can probably be illustrated by analogy: if you have a gear that rotates clockwise, and takes 4 seconds to complete a rotation, and above it there's a camera that only takes a photo every 3 seconds, then the film you'd get by putting the camera's photos together would show the gear rotation anti-clockwise (270 degrees, then 180, then 90, then 0, then...). That wouldn't mean the gear wasn't rotating clockwise, just that you couldn't see it.
To extend the analogy, let's say that when the gear is at certain orientations, it emits heat. So, whenever the gear isn't at exactly 0 degrees, 90 degrees, 180 degrees and 270 degrees, it will be causing a heat source to send out heat.
Now, according to the camera, it's never at any of those positions. If you put a heat sensor next to the camera, it will detect the heat even if the camera can't see it.

This seems to be similar to how night works: technically the light is spinning past quickly, but it goes unseen, and so we can never see it at the place we'd expect it to cause heat, but the heat has to still be there. The way we see light isn't the same as the way we sense heat.
I hope that's clearer, at least.
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Aliveandkicking

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1227 on: August 28, 2016, 07:07:05 AM »

Answers for what exactly?  I already showed earlier that a video claiming to show objects falling at the same rate showed an apple falling faster in air than feathers falling in what was claimed to be a vacuum.

And as far as I could tell in the very poor quality video provided by myth busters, the myth busters demo of the same thing with a hammer appeared to show the hammer falling faster than the feathers.   

Other than that, I dont have anything to say about the videos produced to show how objects fall in a 'vacuum' at the same rate

There is still one unanswered question: "It's a simple question. If there is some gigantic heat and light source that comes from the center of the earth and reflects upon a dome high in the atmosphere, it follows that we should be able to see this light source, am I right? I'm not smirking. I am genuinely curious about how the sun works in your model. If for some reason we cannot see this light source from where it originates, why not?"

As regarding the answer about the hammer and feather:
IMAGINE. Imagine, that there is one pound of feathers and a hammer of ten pounds. Put the feathers into an air-tight bag and squeeze them very tightly, removing the air with regular vacuum cleaner. Hang the hammer on a regular size parachute, used by parachuters. Don't put the feathers on parachute. Now drop both the hammer and the bag of feathers from a flying airplane.
Now IMAGINE the same experiment, only in an environment without air. Just imagine. I even don't ask for conclusions.

I think you are talking to the wrong person.  I showed only that a video claiming to demonstrate something could not have been using anything like a vacuum as claimed. 

As for gigantic heat source,  I am having a conversation about simple physics a child can understand which can be demonstrated to help the child understand for a few dollars.

 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 07:44:56 AM by Aliveandkicking »

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Aliveandkicking

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1228 on: August 28, 2016, 07:17:23 AM »
So what property of this arrangement causes problems when we connect a container of air to a pump and we continually remove an amount of air from the container via the pump?   What is the basis for Sceptimatics theory brian cox is an actor?

Sceptimatic told me all of the molecules are connected together and I am supposing he is saying they can never be separated so even after passing thru the pump the matter outside the pump is still connected physically to the matter in the  pump?
According to Scepti, the pump works basically by pushing air away from a vessel. As a result, molecules inside the vessel expand to prevent a vacuum forming, and get pushed out by the molecules inside the chamber that are trying to expand. There is a constant connection, under his model.

OK air gets pushed away from the vessel on one side of the pump and on the other side of the pump molecules inside the container expand to prevent a vacuum forming.   No problems with that part I have put in blue,    even though it is somewhat oddly expressed.

But what on Earth is the part in red talking about?? 

1.  What is getting pushed out by the molecules inside the chamber that are trying to expand?? 

2. What is constantly connected??


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Slemon

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #1229 on: August 28, 2016, 07:19:17 AM »
But what on Earth is the part in red talking about?? 

1.  What is getting pushed out by the molecules inside the chamber that are trying to expand?? 

2. What is constantly connected??
1. The molecules closer to the pump.
2. Badly phrased, ok, the idea is essentially molecules are always touching other molecules; no vacuum forms.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!