Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

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Slemon

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #300 on: August 06, 2016, 03:20:23 PM »
No it's not just down to surface area. It must contain atmospheric pressure.
I didn't mean just surface area, but presumably that is a factor as well?
Just going from boats etc, the materials for which wouldn't float if they were just a cube, but in the right kind of a shape do.



Quote

If that's right then there might be another experiment, similar to the second one: two objects with equal volume (though not equally porous), with the first being lighter than the second. Then, the first object would be more porous, so if both are submerged for a length of time for all the air to be replaced by water, the lighter object would sink faster if it was brought to the surface again because less water's displaced by it.
I realise it's not a particularly reliable experiment, timing and raising objects to equal heights etc is filled with a wealth of problems as far as reliability goes, just trying to ensure I understand what you're saying.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. Maybe I'm having a moment.
Yeah, not sure what I was on about either, sorry.

Thank you!
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #301 on: August 06, 2016, 03:38:51 PM »
I'm with Bill Nye on this one.
8) 8) 8) thanks friend.

Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #302 on: August 06, 2016, 03:48:45 PM »
I'm with Bill Nye on this one.
8) 8) 8) thanks friend.

I'm new here and while I am experienced with conspiracy theorists in general, the ones I find here are gobsmackingly idiotic. Whilst not a fully qualified psychologist, I am published in the field, but these people leave me gasping at their sheer inability to reason and the degree of paranoia is frankly, scary. I struggle to imagine have most of these people could function in the real world with such massive failings in reason, logic and interpersonal skills. I suspect that most in fact, do not.

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Woody

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #303 on: August 06, 2016, 03:52:20 PM »
I didn't mean just surface area, but presumably that is a factor as well?
Just going from boats etc, the materials for which wouldn't float if they were just a cube, but in the right kind of a shape do.

Shape only matters for how fast and efficiently something can travel through the water.  If something can displace enough water that is equal to what it weighs it will float.

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Slemon

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #304 on: August 06, 2016, 04:09:23 PM »
Shape only matters for how fast and efficiently something can travel through the water.  If something can displace enough water that is equal to what it weighs it will float.
Which requires a fair surface area being in contact with the water, for practical purposes (plus hollowness), to maximise displacement.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #305 on: August 06, 2016, 04:28:06 PM »
Whilst not a fully qualified psychologist, I am published in the field, but these people leave me gasping at their sheer inability to reason and the degree of paranoia is frankly, scary. I struggle to imagine have most of these people could function in the real world with such massive failings in reason, logic and interpersonal skills. I suspect that most in fact, do not.

I am certainly not a psychologist either but I am willing to wager at least some of the FE supporters suffer from symptoms of schizophrenia  (especially JRoweSkeptic, apparently the Aether communicates with him directly to his mind)

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Woody

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #306 on: August 06, 2016, 04:53:02 PM »
Whilst not a fully qualified psychologist, I am published in the field, but these people leave me gasping at their sheer inability to reason and the degree of paranoia is frankly, scary. I struggle to imagine have most of these people could function in the real world with such massive failings in reason, logic and interpersonal skills. I suspect that most in fact, do not.

I am certainly not a psychologist either but I am willing to wager at least some of the FE supporters suffer from symptoms of schizophrenia  (especially JRoweSkeptic, apparently the Aether communicates with him directly to his mind)

I did not know that about JRowe.  I will just leave him be if he is that far gone.  Anybody posting something questioning his model will likely just make it worse.

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Rayzor

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #307 on: August 06, 2016, 07:57:21 PM »
Ok, let's move on with denspressure theory,   bearing in mind that we are talking about an abstract physics that doesn't necessarily apply in any real world sense.   The simplest of experiments prove that it doesn't work in the objective reality we experience.  But is it a self consistent physics?

The inverse buoyancy concept is an interesting interpretation,  but what causes "stacking"  what force gives rise to the notion of "up" and "down",  in conventional physics it's gravity,  what is the corresponding force in denspressure?

Also, what is the denspressure definition of density?   Weight per unit volume?    Following further,  what is the denspressure definition of pressure,   force per unit area?

If those definitions are correct,  what is the origin of  that weight,  and where does that force come from?
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #308 on: August 06, 2016, 10:43:07 PM »
You subscribe to a theory that ignores the most basic principles of fluid dynamics.
And what is that?
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch4/properties2.html
Here's a website from Perdue University describing basic qualities of gas, particularly the 2nd principle of gas "gases expand to fill their containers," and while you are there brushing up on your elementary physics try and find a principle of gas that states gas particles can stack in a heap like a bale of hay.

Because it's stacked from the bottom up and expands till it cannot agitate. IIt then goes dormant and forms the skin. The ice dome.
The ice dome? Earlier you said the upper atmosphere is not held by a solid firmament, and now you have changed your stance. If this "ice dome" does exist, then the earth is a large container and therefore the atmosphere would constantly push toward equilibrium and pressurize the entire system. You know, how gases would work in reality, instead of your untested thought experiments?


Is the atmosphere the same at the top of a high mountain as it is at the bottom?
If not, there goes your equilibrium. It's stacked.
No, the pressure changes as you change altitude because gravity is pulling the atmosphere toward the earth's center of gravity. I am telling you that in your model, based on the simplest principles of gases, air pressure shouldn't change at all because gravity doesn't exist, and the system is enclosed under the supposed "ice dome". This is because gases expand to fill their container, no matter the size of the container.

This is because air, being a gas, will expand and form the shape of any container it is placed in.
Yep, in a container it will.
You mean like the container created by the ice dome?

Note that when I say "expand" the actual size of the particles themselves remains constant, the parties just spread out more.
When you say they spread out more, do you mean they expand or do you mean they simply spread out and leave free space?
The particles spread out of course, particles themselves do not magically grow in size. Where did you get such an idea? Why would gas particles have this property when solid and liquid particles do not?

The gases aren't kept in the system by the firmament. The gases simply stop being pushed/squeezed up and simply freeze against a (possibly) a true vacuum.
CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING: For CO2 to freeze, it needs to be under very high pressure. Look up a phase diagram for carbon dioxide if you dont believe me. In your model (and mine) gases are at very low pressure at high altitude, so where does the sudden high pressure come from? One gram of solid CO2 has a volume of 0.641 mL. At 0C and atmospheric pressure, the same amount of CO2 gas has a volume of 556 mL, which is more than 850 times as large. At altitude, the change in volume would be exponentially greater. This means that, to form an ice dome, you need a very large amount of gas to be kept at very high pressure. The ice dome model is simply not feasible in any real sense. Since the ice dome physically cannot exist, what is keeping the entire atmosphere from diffusing into the vacuum of space?


I am sure you are familiar with the concept, "Nature abhors a vacuum"
Yep and in nature there isn't a vacuum, because a vacuum does not and cannot exist to our perception. It can to our imagination.
OK so if a vacuum cannot exist, what lies beyond the firmament? Previously you said there was a vacuum there, but you have already changed your mind on the subject of a rigid firmament, so I guess your model still needs some kinks worked out.


Because it's stacked from the bottom up.
Could you show any real, testable evidence that gases stack? Are there any experiments that could allow one to reach this conclusion?

They do stack in the way I'm describing.
Why don't you prove it? You cannot just make claims and say they are true. You need to test them in repeatable experiments. And no, making slipshod analogies comparing solid bodies to fluids doesn't count as a repeatable experiment. This entire thread is about testing the denpressure model. Can't you perform or at least devise an experiment that can verify your claims?


It doesn't really seem like you have an open mind. You rejected all of the experimental findings in this thread, without offering a single thought as to what those findings could mean.
I'm taking on-board everything that's being said. I am not just going to jump in and accept them as being correct if they do not show a true reflection.
You agreed to the experiments and their possible conclusions. I even asked you if you had any problems with the experiments before they were conducted, and you claimed you didn't. Now that the results of the experiments you agreed with initially have incontrovertibly proven denpressure to be false, only now do you claim they "do not show a true reflection". Could you possibly be more vague? Why didn't you make corrections to the experiments before the experiments were conducted?

It appears to me that your goal is to smash this theory rather than try and understand it to get it to a favourable position.
I understand the theory perfectly. That is why I am able to tell you all of the things that are wrong with it. If you had any understanding of the properties of gases, you would be able to comprehend these issues as well.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 11:56:38 PM by TheRealBillNye »

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Crouton

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #309 on: August 06, 2016, 10:44:43 PM »
Alright, let's sum up where we're at:

Three experiments have been described and approved of by sceptimatic.  A fourth has been described and approved of by scepticmatic in a different thread:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67541.msg1804618#msg1804618
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67541.msg1804622#msg1804622

Experiment #1.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806280#msg1806280
No one has expressed any objection to this result.

Experiment #2.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806556#msg1806556
No one has expressed any objection to this result.

Experiment #3.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806093#msg1806093
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806340#msg1806340

Sceptimatic's only coherent objection to the results is the presence of humidity in the containers.  This is objection is invalid however as the amount of condensation in the containers were far below what it would take to meaningfully skew the results.

Experiment #4.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67541.msg1804620#msg1804620
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1805937#msg1805937
Sceptimatic has objection to sokarul's result as an outright lie.  Sceptimatic has not commented on neutrino's result.

I feel that it's not my place to draw conclusions in this thread.  I present this data only for the reader's consideration.

Thanks to everyone involved in this thread.  It's been a lot of fun.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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Woody

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #310 on: August 06, 2016, 10:58:47 PM »
Alright, let's sum up where we're at:

Three experiments have been described and approved of by sceptimatic.  A fourth has been described and approved of by scepticmatic in a different thread:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67541.msg1804618#msg1804618
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67541.msg1804622#msg1804622

Experiment #1.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806280#msg1806280
No one has expressed any objection to this result.

Experiment #2.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806556#msg1806556
No one has expressed any objection to this result.

Experiment #3.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806093#msg1806093
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806340#msg1806340

Sceptimatic's only coherent objection to the results is the presence of humidity in the containers.  This is objection is invalid however as the amount of condensation in the containers were far below what it would take to meaningfully skew the results.

Experiment #4.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67541.msg1804620#msg1804620
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1805937#msg1805937
Sceptimatic has objection to sokarul's result as an outright lie.  Sceptimatic has not commented on neutrino's result.

I feel that it's not my place to draw conclusions in this thread.  I present this data only for the reader's consideration.

Thanks to everyone involved in this thread.  It's been a lot of fun.

Scepti disputed the results here:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806456#msg1806456

Personally I think he did not offer anything constructive like explaining why the experiments were flawed or an alternative interpretation of the observations.


Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #311 on: August 06, 2016, 11:11:25 PM »
You people think you've destroyed denpressure by doing what you've just done?
I knew this was going to happen from the off. I was just waiting whilst some of you cast the line and started to gain tension before reeling in.

You're not getting away with it that easily and I don't give a toss how much you try to pressurise and dig en-masse.

If some of you actually took the time to understand denpressure you'll know that some of the experiments are not going to be conclusive, yet you are using them as just that.

Septic if you were a man of science as you claim to be, you would either
1) Be able to coherently describe why these experiments could be in any way inconclusive
2) admit the denpressure theory has serious flaws

Since you have failed to act like a seeker of absolute truth, you have proven yourself to be in denial. You shut your eyes and ears to the truth. That's fine. You have the right to live that way. But if you dare tell me or anybody else that denpressure answers more questions about the universe than gravity, know that I will be there to link the poor sap to this very thread where you were proven wrong.

Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #312 on: August 07, 2016, 12:46:11 AM »
You people think you've destroyed denpressure by doing what you've just done?
I knew this was going to happen from the off. I was just waiting whilst some of you cast the line and started to gain tension before reeling in.

You're not getting away with it that easily and I don't give a toss how much you try to pressurise and dig en-masse.

If some of you actually took the time to understand denpressure you'll know that some of the experiments are not going to be conclusive, yet you are using them as just that.

Septic if you were a man of science as you claim to be, you would either
1) Be able to coherently describe why these experiments could be in any way inconclusive
2) admit the denpressure theory has serious flaws

Since you have failed to act like a seeker of absolute truth, you have proven yourself to be in denial. You shut your eyes and ears to the truth. That's fine. You have the right to live that way. But if you dare tell me or anybody else that denpressure answers more questions about the universe than gravity, know that I will be there to link the poor sap to this very thread where you were proven wrong.

There is a good reason we have a theory of gravity. It works. It explains our physical universe fairly well although Dark Matter is a problem. But in the environment in which we operate, it works very well. We might not understand what causes gravity, but we have a very good model of how it operates including detailed mathematical models to describe it. Denpressure fails in every single aspect and is not even consistent in itself. It doesnt even rise to the level of bad science. It is not even bad pseudo-science. It is just sheer and utter nonsense from beginning to end.

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neutrino

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #313 on: August 07, 2016, 12:50:41 AM »
OK OK I'll take the responsibility:

DENPRESSURE IS FALSE
FET is religion. No evidence will convince a FE-er. It would be easier to convince Muslims they are wrong.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #314 on: August 07, 2016, 01:10:37 AM »
I'm with Bill Nye on this one. You want to think that you are formulating an alternative theory to that of gravity byt the basic failing is that you need to denounce and ignore 2500 years of science to do so. in 500BC this theory could gain some credence because we couldnt measure pressure, weigh things very accurately nor ddid we have much of a model of the physical universe. But today, you are asking that we throw literally everything we know and can prove away simply to entertain this rubbish idea of yours?  In your febrile mind, there are no planets, no galaxies, no space travel, no vacuum and every single bit of evidence that contradicts you is garbage or faked. There are cave men that would mock your 'thinking' here.  your theory does not match any of our real-world experiences and is so easily debunked that it is childs-play.

Your understanding of molecules and rejection of the atomic structure leads me to ask: how many elements do you think exists? My guess is four - fire, air, water and air.

I am a bible-believing, active Christian and former missionary and youth pastor. You are an embarrassment to all of us who call Christ our Saviour. You are deeply and sadly deluded.
Prove to me "physically" just one thing that you know to be true in what you have just said in this post and explain why.

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Crouton

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #315 on: August 07, 2016, 01:14:58 AM »
Alright, let's sum up where we're at:

Three experiments have been described and approved of by sceptimatic.  A fourth has been described and approved of by scepticmatic in a different thread:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67541.msg1804618#msg1804618
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67541.msg1804622#msg1804622

Experiment #1.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806280#msg1806280
No one has expressed any objection to this result.

Experiment #2.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806556#msg1806556
No one has expressed any objection to this result.

Experiment #3.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806093#msg1806093
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806340#msg1806340

Sceptimatic's only coherent objection to the results is the presence of humidity in the containers.  This is objection is invalid however as the amount of condensation in the containers were far below what it would take to meaningfully skew the results.

Experiment #4.  Produced results contrary to denspressure
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67541.msg1804620#msg1804620
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1805937#msg1805937
Sceptimatic has objection to sokarul's result as an outright lie.  Sceptimatic has not commented on neutrino's result.

I feel that it's not my place to draw conclusions in this thread.  I present this data only for the reader's consideration.

Thanks to everyone involved in this thread.  It's been a lot of fun.

Scepti disputed the results here:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67582.msg1806456#msg1806456

Personally I think he did not offer anything constructive like explaining why the experiments were flawed or an alternative interpretation of the observations.

Yeah, the thing is starting with post #240 onward, what sceptimatic wrote is really more of a bunch of wild flailing intermixed with bizarre analogies than a coherent argument.  It's debatable I suppose.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #316 on: August 07, 2016, 01:15:53 AM »
I'm with Bill Nye on this one.
8) 8) 8) thanks friend.

I'm new here and while I am experienced with conspiracy theorists in general, the ones I find here are gobsmackingly idiotic. Whilst not a fully qualified psychologist, I am published in the field, but these people leave me gasping at their sheer inability to reason and the degree of paranoia is frankly, scary. I struggle to imagine have most of these people could function in the real world with such massive failings in reason, logic and interpersonal skills. I suspect that most in fact, do not.
How about opening a topic on your psychology skills and I'll be happy to take part. Leave this for what it's for. Unless of course your goal is to attempt ridicule on something and with someone that is closer to the bone than you'd prefer.

Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #317 on: August 07, 2016, 01:31:39 AM »
How about opening a topic on your psychology skills and I'll be happy to take part. Leave this for what it's for.
Good idea scepti, let's get back on topic. Address my points please.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #318 on: August 07, 2016, 01:45:20 AM »
Well well, this topic turned into exactly the kind of topic I expected. There are only one or two genuine global Earthers even attempting to look into what I'm saying. the rest are doing their utmost to make sure that anyone looking in at denpressure will be put off enough if my theory is ridicules en-masse.

Let me explain something to those looking in and to those who have some grasp on what I've been talking about.
Denpressure is alive and well. It's a reality that requires constant explaining in many different contexts using many different analogies just to scratch the surface.
Why?
Because the absolute saturation of mainstream supposed scientific nonsense on Earth and it's supposed ways of operation, have been fine tuned in all magical ways and indoctrinated into the minds of everyone, that it's extremely difficult for them to deviate from that path.

None of you people (you know who you are) have destroyed any of what I've been talking about. Most of you do not even understand the simplest part, whether that's deliberate or it's just too logical for you; I don't really know.

Once the psychologists started to enter into the topic, I knew what and where this topic was going.


Anyone that's still interested in painstakingly trying to understand it, feel free to come at me and I'll continue to try to get to a place where some semblance of my theory can be pitched with reality or even the potential of it, because let's face it, the mainstream science world of theory has some monumental magical forces at hand, don't they?


Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #319 on: August 07, 2016, 02:55:07 AM »
I'm with Bill Nye on this one. You want to think that you are formulating an alternative theory to that of gravity byt the basic failing is that you need to denounce and ignore 2500 years of science to do so. in 500BC this theory could gain some credence because we couldnt measure pressure, weigh things very accurately nor ddid we have much of a model of the physical universe. But today, you are asking that we throw literally everything we know and can prove away simply to entertain this rubbish idea of yours?  In your febrile mind, there are no planets, no galaxies, no space travel, no vacuum and every single bit of evidence that contradicts you is garbage or faked. There are cave men that would mock your 'thinking' here.  your theory does not match any of our real-world experiences and is so easily debunked that it is childs-play.

Your understanding of molecules and rejection of the atomic structure leads me to ask: how many elements do you think exists? My guess is four - fire, air, water and air.

I am a bible-believing, active Christian and former missionary and youth pastor. You are an embarrassment to all of us who call Christ our Saviour. You are deeply and sadly deluded.
Prove to me "physically" just one thing that you know to be true in what you have just said in this post and explain why.

There are planets. We can see them and in fact have even been to Mars via rover. We know a great deal about them and can bee seen through telescopes.  And then there is the rest of the universe.

And perfect vaccum likely does not exist in large volumes because even in deep space there may be a molecule of something (most likely hydrogen) in a  cubic metre. BUT good vacuums  are more than capable of destroying your denpressure idea by creating near enough to zero atmosphere.

and then there is also the entire rest of the body of physical science which breaks your concept into pieces.

Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #320 on: August 07, 2016, 02:58:03 AM »
Well well, this topic turned into exactly the kind of topic I expected. There are only one or two genuine global Earthers even attempting to look into what I'm saying. the rest are doing their utmost to make sure that anyone looking in at denpressure will be put off enough if my theory is ridicules en-masse.

Let me explain something to those looking in and to those who have some grasp on what I've been talking about.
Denpressure is alive and well. It's a reality that requires constant explaining in many different contexts using many different analogies just to scratch the surface.
Why?
Because the absolute saturation of mainstream supposed scientific nonsense on Earth and it's supposed ways of operation, have been fine tuned in all magical ways and indoctrinated into the minds of everyone, that it's extremely difficult for them to deviate from that path.

None of you people (you know who you are) have destroyed any of what I've been talking about. Most of you do not even understand the simplest part, whether that's deliberate or it's just too logical for you; I don't really know.

Once the psychologists started to enter into the topic, I knew what and where this topic was going.


Anyone that's still interested in painstakingly trying to understand it, feel free to come at me and I'll continue to try to get to a place where some semblance of my theory can be pitched with reality or even the potential of it, because let's face it, the mainstream science world of theory has some monumental magical forces at hand, don't they?

it might help your cause if you provided some actual math to back up your theory or some detailed hypotheses that can be tested. All you give are a few broad ideas and then criticise every attempt to test them when they inevitably fail.

you know ZIP about the scientific method. And I still asked you how many elements there were and if you even believe in the subatomic structure.

Care to share with us your 'insights' on such matters?

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Rayzor

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #321 on: August 07, 2016, 02:59:57 AM »
Repost,  since I posted this it got buried in the noise.

Ok, let's move on with denspressure theory,   bearing in mind that we are talking about an abstract physics that doesn't necessarily apply in any real world sense.   The simplest of experiments prove that it doesn't work in the objective reality we experience.  But is it a self consistent physics?

The inverse buoyancy concept is an interesting interpretation,  but what causes "stacking"  what force gives rise to the notion of "up" and "down",  in conventional physics it's gravity,  what is the corresponding force in denspressure?

Also, what is the denspressure definition of density?   Weight per unit volume?    Following further,  what is the denspressure definition of pressure,   force per unit area?

If those definitions are correct,  what is the origin of  that weight,  and where does that force come from?

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #322 on: August 07, 2016, 06:29:02 AM »
I'm with Bill Nye on this one. You want to think that you are formulating an alternative theory to that of gravity byt the basic failing is that you need to denounce and ignore 2500 years of science to do so. in 500BC this theory could gain some credence because we couldnt measure pressure, weigh things very accurately nor ddid we have much of a model of the physical universe. But today, you are asking that we throw literally everything we know and can prove away simply to entertain this rubbish idea of yours?  In your febrile mind, there are no planets, no galaxies, no space travel, no vacuum and every single bit of evidence that contradicts you is garbage or faked. There are cave men that would mock your 'thinking' here.  your theory does not match any of our real-world experiences and is so easily debunked that it is childs-play.

Your understanding of molecules and rejection of the atomic structure leads me to ask: how many elements do you think exists? My guess is four - fire, air, water and air.

I am a bible-believing, active Christian and former missionary and youth pastor. You are an embarrassment to all of us who call Christ our Saviour. You are deeply and sadly deluded.
Prove to me "physically" just one thing that you know to be true in what you have just said in this post and explain why.

There are planets. We can see them and in fact have even been to Mars via rover. We know a great deal about them and can bee seen through telescopes.  And then there is the rest of the universe.

And perfect vaccum likely does not exist in large volumes because even in deep space there may be a molecule of something (most likely hydrogen) in a  cubic metre. BUT good vacuums  are more than capable of destroying your denpressure idea by creating near enough to zero atmosphere.

and then there is also the entire rest of the body of physical science which breaks your concept into pieces.
Prove to me "physically" just one thing that you know to be true in what you have just said in this post and explain why.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #323 on: August 07, 2016, 06:31:55 AM »
Well well, this topic turned into exactly the kind of topic I expected. There are only one or two genuine global Earthers even attempting to look into what I'm saying. the rest are doing their utmost to make sure that anyone looking in at denpressure will be put off enough if my theory is ridicules en-masse.

Let me explain something to those looking in and to those who have some grasp on what I've been talking about.
Denpressure is alive and well. It's a reality that requires constant explaining in many different contexts using many different analogies just to scratch the surface.
Why?
Because the absolute saturation of mainstream supposed scientific nonsense on Earth and it's supposed ways of operation, have been fine tuned in all magical ways and indoctrinated into the minds of everyone, that it's extremely difficult for them to deviate from that path.

None of you people (you know who you are) have destroyed any of what I've been talking about. Most of you do not even understand the simplest part, whether that's deliberate or it's just too logical for you; I don't really know.

Once the psychologists started to enter into the topic, I knew what and where this topic was going.


Anyone that's still interested in painstakingly trying to understand it, feel free to come at me and I'll continue to try to get to a place where some semblance of my theory can be pitched with reality or even the potential of it, because let's face it, the mainstream science world of theory has some monumental magical forces at hand, don't they?

it might help your cause if you provided some actual math to back up your theory or some detailed hypotheses that can be tested. All you give are a few broad ideas and then criticise every attempt to test them when they inevitably fail.

you know ZIP about the scientific method. And I still asked you how many elements there were and if you even believe in the subatomic structure.

Care to share with us your 'insights' on such matters?
How can I share my insights into what you want if I know nothing about anything?
You stick to your schooled version like a robot and I'll carry on thinking up the best ways to prove to people that the indoctrinated way is the bullshit way.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #324 on: August 07, 2016, 06:38:42 AM »
Repost,  since I posted this it got buried in the noise.

Ok, let's move on with denspressure theory,   bearing in mind that we are talking about an abstract physics that doesn't necessarily apply in any real world sense.   The simplest of experiments prove that it doesn't work in the objective reality we experience.  But is it a self consistent physics?

The inverse buoyancy concept is an interesting interpretation,  but what causes "stacking"  what force gives rise to the notion of "up" and "down",  in conventional physics it's gravity,  what is the corresponding force in denspressure?

Also, what is the denspressure definition of density?   Weight per unit volume?    Following further,  what is the denspressure definition of pressure,   force per unit area?

If those definitions are correct,  what is the origin of  that weight,  and where does that force come from?
You've been told many times about stacking. You keep asking for measurements of denpressure.
The measurements are all there disguised as gravity force. Your scale plates measure the force.

You say the notion of up and down is due to gravity and that's that. So tell me something. What makes gravity have an up and down?


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Rayzor

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #325 on: August 07, 2016, 06:45:30 AM »
You say the notion of up and down is due to gravity and that's that. So tell me something. What makes gravity have an up and down?

The mass of the earth makes things with mass fall towards the center of the earth,   the force is  F = -mg  where m is the mass of the object,  g is the acceleration due to the earth's gravitational field.  F is called the weight.    By convention we set g=1 at the surface of the earth,  so a mass of 1kg has a weight (or downward force) of 1kg.

Without gravity there is no up and down and there is no weight.   

What's the equivalent in denspressure?   Or putting it more simply what gives the pressure a direction?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 06:49:03 AM by Rayzor »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #326 on: August 07, 2016, 07:02:19 AM »
You say the notion of up and down is due to gravity and that's that. So tell me something. What makes gravity have an up and down?

The mass of the earth makes things with mass fall towards the center of the earth,   the force is  F = -mg  where m is the mass of the object,  g is the acceleration due to the earth's gravitational field.  F is called the weight.    By convention we set g=1 at the surface of the earth,  so a mass of 1kg has a weight (or downward force) of 1kg.

Without gravity there is no up and down and there is no weight.   

What's the equivalent in denspressure?   Or putting it more simply what gives the pressure a direction?
Tell me how gravity has an up and down. You've mentioned mass FALLING to the centre of the Earth. What's making it fall and why is it falling to the CENTRE of the Earth?
Why is the KG weight a weight at all? What determines that weight on a scale plate?
How come gravity PULLS down and yet PULLS up at the same time?




As for denpressure. Denpressure has a direction to our human balance system due to our dense bodies PUSHING into the atmosphere from the solid Earth and resisting the push back onto us. It's an equal action force followed on by an equal reaction force.

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Rayzor

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #327 on: August 07, 2016, 07:11:31 AM »
Tell me how gravity has an up and down. You've mentioned mass FALLING to the centre of the Earth. What's making it fall and why is it falling to the CENTRE of the Earth?
Why is the KG weight a weight at all? What determines that weight on a scale plate?
How come gravity PULLS down and yet PULLS up at the same time?




As for denpressure. Denpressure has a direction to our human balance system due to our dense bodies PUSHING into the atmosphere from the solid Earth and resisting the push back onto us. It's an equal action force followed on by an equal reaction force.

Ok,  lets make it simpler,   down is the direction of the center of the earth.    That's it.  Seriously, it really is that simple.  Things fall towards the center.

Why do things fall?   The mass of the earth creates a gravitational field.   Like an electric charge creates an electric field,  it's a property of mass itself.

Gravity never PULLS up,  don't know where you got that idea from?   

Back to Denpressure,  where does the "push down" from the atmosphere come from?   
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #328 on: August 07, 2016, 07:52:04 AM »

Ok,  lets make it simpler,   down is the direction of the center of the earth.    That's it.  Seriously, it really is that simple.  Things fall towards the center.
If down is the centre of the Earth then what determines UP?


Why do things fall?   The mass of the earth creates a gravitational field.   Like an electric charge creates an electric field,  it's a property of mass itself.
I was told that a person falling towards the centre of Earth would stop and float and would not fall any further, so how does that work with gravity?




Gravity never PULLS up,  don't know where you got that idea from?   
If gravity never pulls up then what's happening with the tides being PULLED by the moon as we are told?



Back to Denpressure,  where does the "push down" from the atmosphere come from?   
From the stacking up of each molecule pushing into each other to create a resistance on each other from bottom to top.

Analogy: One football on the ground pushes the next football on top of it and that football pushes against the bottom football but also against the football above it. And so on and so on until the very last football is pushed upon but does not push back because it has nothing to push back with, so it freezes.
Just think of this happening in the almost (to us) infinite of molecules all in different stages of pushing, or vibrating at frequencies galore.

If you need more on down then I need more on your UP and DOWN.

Re: Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)
« Reply #329 on: August 07, 2016, 07:55:57 AM »
Gravity never PULLS up,  don't know where you got that idea from?

Sure it does.  Every object with mass exerts a gravitational pull in all directions: up, down, left, right, fore, aft.  The direction of the gravitational force exerted by two objects on each other is toward the center of mass of each object, while the magnitude is a function of the two masses.  So the Earth exerts upon your body a force toward the Earth's center of mass (or "down").  That large force exerted upon your small mass results in detectable accelleration.  Your body exerts the same amount of force upon the Earth toward your center of mass (or "up").  That large force exerted upon the super enormous gargantuan mass results in teeny tiny unmeasurably small accelleration.

Bottom line is this: local "down" is determined by the largest local mass, and local"up" is in the opposite direction.