The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.

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getrealzommb

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The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« on: January 01, 2016, 08:58:59 AM »
This thread is mainly for round earthers, it exists so that you can attempt to understand the mindset of a flatty.
However flatties are welcome to read, you are encouraged to analyse why you believe what you believe.

Why do people believe in a flat earth?
We will firstly look at at the closed mind of a conspiracy theorist.

A conspiracy theory is “a proposed plot by powerful people or organizations working together in secret, to accomplish some
(usually sinister) goal” that is “notoriously resistant to falsification,” and that has ‘new layers of conspiracy being added to rationalize each new piece of disconfirming evidence.”

Once you believe that  one massive, sinister conspiracy could be successfully executed in near-perfect secrecy, suggests that many such plots are possible.  With this cabalistic paradigm in place, conspiracies can become  the default explanation for any given
event. Such a unitary, closed-off worldview in which beliefs come together in a mutually supportive network is known as a monological belief system.

For example, One may believe that the earth is a flat disk and was correlated with belief in that the moon landing was a hoax, and
that governments are covering up the existence of aliens.  The effect continues even when the conspiracies contradict one another.

Someone who believes in a significant number of conspiracy theories would naturally begin to see authorities as fundamentally deceptive, and new conspiracy theories would seem more plausible in light of that belief.
Thus, conspiracy advocates’ distrust of official narratives maybe so strong that many alternative theories are simultaneously endorsed in spite of any contractions between them.

Conspiracy theories connect the dots of random events into meaningful patterns (patternicity), an then infuse those patterns with intentional agency (agenticity). Add to this the confirmation bias (the tendency to look for and find confirmatory evidence
for what we already believe), the hindsight bias (after the fact explanation for what you already know happened)and Logical denial (something couldn't have happen, therefore something else could not have happen.)
and we have the foundation for conspiratorial cognition.

Lets apply the above to FET. (in a simple way)
Many FET believers are skeptical about NASA and the moon landings. They believe that Photographs taken on the lunar surface are fake due to shadows cast by the US flag not all orientating in the same direction (although this is normal  on uneven terrain even on Earth)(Patternicity) and link that to a lack of stars in the sky in the same pictures (due to exposure, the bright lunar surface and the blackness of the sky) Therefor NASA faked this in a studio(agenticity) , therefore no space travel occurred(logical denial), therefore no satellites have been put in orbit (finding fault with ISS videos/confirmation bias), therefore no real pictures of earth, therefor flat earth. 

There are two types of Cognitive behavior that are relative. Transcendental, and  Empiricists.

Transcendentalists believe that everything is interconnected and all events happen for a reason, while empiricists think that randomness and coincidence interact with the causal net of our world, and that belief depends on evidence for each individual claim.
The problem for skepticism is that transcendentalism is intuitive and empiricism is not.

Our propensity for patternicity and agenticity leads us naturally into the transcendental camp of those who see
events in the world as unfolding according to a pre-planned logic, whereas the empirical method of being skeptical until a claim is proven otherwise requires a concerted effort that most conspiracy believers will not make.

More soon






« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 12:42:06 PM by getrealzommb »

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2016, 09:29:44 AM »
What triggers a belief?

Conspiracy theorists are often caricatured as a small demographic composed primarily of middle-aged white male Internet enthusiasts who live in their mothers’ basements, but that polls reveal that conspiracy theories permeate all parts of society irreverent of gender, age, race, income, political affiliation, educational level, and occupational status.

In laboratory experiments researchers have found that inducing anxiety or loss of control, triggers respondents
to see nonexistent patterns and evoke conspiratorial explanations and that in the real world, there is evidence that disasters
(e.g., earthquakes and other high-stress situations (e.g., job uncertainty) prompt people to concoct, embrace, and repeat conspiracy theories.

An analysis of tweets, for example, found that people were more likely to tweet about conspiracies surrounding the Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster in Japan the closer they were to it, and those who lived in New York City on 9/11 were more likely to believe that it was an “inside job”.

Group identity is also a factor.
African Americans are more likely to believe that the CIA planted crack cocaine in inner city black neighborhoods,
created AIDS to kills blacks, and that the Jews control the media.

By contrast, white Americans are more likely to believe that the government is conspiring to tax the rich in order to support welfare queens, to take away our guns and abolish the Second Amendment, and even that President Obama is setting up concentration camps for Americans who resist his socialist agenda.




« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 09:43:54 AM by getrealzommb »

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hoppy

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2016, 09:48:29 AM »
Great, you are asleep. You are good sheep.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2016, 10:06:02 AM »
Determining  the invalidity of a conspiracy.

1. Proof of the conspiracy supposedly emerges from a pattern of “connecting the dots” between events that need not be causally connected. When no evidence supports these connections except the allegation of the conspiracy, or when the evidence fits equally
well to other causal connections (or randomness) the conspiracy theory is likely false.

2. The agents behind the pattern of the conspiracy would need nearly superhuman power ot technology beyond what is commonly available to pull it off. Most of the time in most circumstances, people are not nearly so powerful as we think they are.

3. The conspiracy is complex and its successful completion demands a large number of elements.

4. The conspiracy involves large numbers of people who would all need to keep silent about their secrets.

5. The conspiracy encompasses some grandiose ambition for control over a nation, economy or political system. If it suggests world domination, it’s probably false. ( what world government is going to just roll over to another?).

6.The conspiracy theory ratchets up from small events that might be true to much larger events that have much lower
probabilities of being true.

7. The conspiracy theory assigns portentous and sinister meanings to what are most likely random and insignificant
events.

8.The theory tends to commingle facts and speculations without distinguishing between the two and without assigning
degrees of probability or of fact.

9.The theorist is extremely and indiscriminately suspicious of any and all government agencies or private organizations.

10.The conspiracy theorist refuses to consider alternative explanations, rejecting all  evidence for his theory and blatantly seeking only confirmatory evidence.


Now go through the above and replace the "conspiracy Theory" with "Flat Earth Belief." and it all makes sense.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 10:18:07 AM by getrealzommb »

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2016, 10:24:39 AM »
Here you go, Ill save the Effort  :-*

1. Proof of the flat earth belief  emerges from a pattern of “connecting the dots” between events that need not be causally connected. When no evidence supports these connections except the allegation of the conspiracy, or when the evidence fits equally
well to other causal connections (or randomness) the flat earth belief is likely false.

Much FET emerges from a pattern of connecting dots between events that need not be connected. in fact science is usually able to prove otherwise, with Proven and accepted theories.

2. The agents behind the pattern of the flat earth  would need nearly superhuman power or technology beyond what is commonly available to pull it off. Most of the time in most circumstances, people are not nearly so powerful as we think they are.

Flat earth theorists seem to believe all scientists are lying to us by the force of all the governments in the world and that they have the technology available to pull the wool over our eyes.

3. The flat earth belief  is complex and its successful completion demands a large number of elements.

Flat earth theory demands that we throw hundreds of years worth of proven physics under the bus to accept a model that is unproven. We must also disregard all evidence from satellite photography and astronaut testimony to the shape of our world.

4. The flat earth belief  involves large numbers of people who would all need to keep silent about their secrets.

All Scientists,astronauts, pilots, Navigators, Sailors, Snipers, mathematicians and world leaders and many more, who lived in the last 2 centenary (at least)

5. The denial of flat earth by world leaders encompasses some grandiose ambition for control over a nation, economy or political system. If it suggests world domination, it’s probably false. ( what world government is going to just roll over to another?).

Common association with the alleged New World Order

6.The flat earth belief  ratchets up from small events that might be true to much larger events that have much lower
probabilities of being true.

See the forum threads and plenty of youtube media

7. The flat earth believer assigns portentous and sinister meanings to what are most likely random and insignificant
events.

See the forum threads and plenty of youtube media

8.The flat earth belief tends to commingle facts and speculations without distinguishing between the two and without assigning
degrees of probability or of fact.

See the forum threads and plenty of youtube media

9.The flat earth believer is extremely and indiscriminately suspicious of any and all government agencies or private organizations.

See the forum threads and plenty of youtube media

10.The flat earth believer  refuses to consider alternative explanations, rejecting all  evidence for his theory and blatantly seeking only confirmatory evidence.


See the forum threads and plenty of youtube media

Next we tackle the belief aspect.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 03:55:29 PM by getrealzommb »

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2016, 11:44:16 AM »


But Why do some People think Like this?  ???

Despite the progress of education and living standards, the world must seem like a scary place for many people – full of chemicals in the sky, aliens trying to abduct us, and government or corporate conspiracies.  (If governments are involved in a cover-up, they are doing a much better job of it than they seem to do at anything else.) These people tend towards not having great understanding of the world and seek understanding from an alternative source.

What’s the harm in ‘alternative’ or "Pseudo"science?

What’s the harm in applying alternative medicine to treat cancer?
Why should others care if I don’t vaccinate my children?
Why is the earth not flat? I'll call it flat because it looks so.

Such  Ideas and decisions are all too often based on a poor understanding of how science works – and usually guided by someone’s commercial interest. For example, a well known blogger known as the Food Babe, claims to research and reveal problems with food (while receiving sponsorship from “natural” food companies). Among her profound research conclusions were that, when studying the effects of microwaves: Microwaved water produced a similar physical structure to when the words “Satan” and “Hitler” were repeatedly exposed to the water.  ::)  :-[

The truth is that in science there are no authorities. There are experts at most, and even their opinions can be challenged by anyone  as long as there’s evidence to back up the argument.
When some people are taken as “authorities” and their claims, however wacky, believed, then the subsequent decisions that millions of people may take, could Regress a huge chunk of society making them unable to progress, or worse, harm them or their children or even bring a premature end to their lives.

The fact is the misinformation and ignorance of science of say something like rhe anti-vaxxer movement not only endangers their own children but also affects the lives of the rest of the population.

The spread of pseudoscience can kill, and that’s exactly why we should be doing more to spread understanding of the scientific method, to equip others to apply skepticism in the face of extraordinary claims.

Instead of teaching children how to critically analyse the world around them for themselves through a lens of healthy skepticism, the educational system is based on arguments from authority, encouraging them to accept what they’re told. Over time, this may develop into a deep ignorance of a scientific approach resulting in a huge difference in outlook and approach to the world between the scientifically trained and everyone else. Into that gap steps mistrust, charlatans and conspiracy theories.


« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 12:06:48 PM by getrealzommb »

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2016, 11:59:09 AM »

Has you're education let you down?

The world we have is bound up with science and technology, yet very few understand that science and technology. This is a recipe for disaster.

It can be difficult for someone without a decent education, or even sometimes without a scientific degree, to understand and interpret scientific results. Even those working in one scientific field can struggle to understand developments in others, due to the extent of specialisation required for further progress.
Mastering this specialisation requires time, of which we humans have only a limited amount.

knowing all is not a requirement for scientists, nor even for scientific thinking. In fact truly scientific thinking echoes Socrates' words, that the wisest of men is he who knows that he knows nothing. “There is no shame in not knowing,” The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior, fill the vacuum left by ignorance.”

The only requirement for scientific thinking is to learn how to apply the scientific method to what we encounter in our daily lives. Science is the only approach to the truth we have, error-correcting machinery, connected to self-criticism that tests our ideas against the real world. Proof of its veracity is all around you, from the scientific principles that underlie the screen you’re reading this on, to the manufacturing processes and materials required to build it, and the electricity that powers it.

Science might not be perfect but it is the best tool mankind has developed to understand itself and the world around us. With a grasp of the scientific method the world is suddenly revealed not as a place to be feared, but to be understood.


Coming soon: People who refute science and the introduction of a Belief System
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 12:10:42 PM by getrealzommb »

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legion

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2016, 12:00:01 PM »
Is there a point to this thread? I only skimmed your blue text, but the conclusion to your first post makes no sense:

Quote
There are two types of Conspiracy theorists. Transcendental, and  Empiricists.

Transcendentalists believe that everything is interconnected and all events happen for a reason, while empiricists think that randomness and coincidence interact with the causal net of our world, and that belief depends on evidence for each individual claim.
The problem for skepticism is that transcendentalism is intuitive and empiricism is not.

Our propensity for patternicity and agenticity leads us naturally into the transcendental camp of those who see
events in the world as unfolding according to a pre-planned logic, whereas the empirical method of being skeptical until a claim is proven otherwise requires a concerted effort that most of us do not make.

This is how wikipedia defines transcendentalism:

Quote
Transcendentalism was a philosophical movement that developed in the late 1820s and 1830s in the eastern region of the United States. The movement was a reaction to, or protest against the general state of intellectualism and spirituality. The doctrine of the Unitarian church as taught at Harvard Divinity School was of particular interest.

Transcendentalism was rooted in English and German Romanticism, the Biblical criticism of Herder and Schleiermacher, the skepticism of Hume, and the transcendental philosophy of Immanuel Kant and of German Idealism. It was also influenced by Indian religions, especially the Upanishads.

A core belief was in the inherent goodness of both people and nature. They believed that society and its institutions ultimately corrupted the purity of the individual, and had faith that people are at their best when truly "self-reliant" and independent.

Their intellectual preoccupations were less reliant on objective empiricism, and more on subjective intuition. They believed that individuals were capable of generating completely original insights with as little attention and deference to past masters as possible.

Are you suggesting that only conspiracy theorists can be (your new definition of) transcendentalists?
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

?

Papa Legba

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2016, 12:11:37 PM »
I thought he was suggesting that military intelligence organisations don't exist.

Unlikely, as he probably works for one.

The internet is completely infested with their agents & bots; it was designed to be that way from its inception.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

But nobody cares what idiots think...
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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legion

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2016, 12:12:40 PM »
I know many people who have no interest in conspiracies, but

Quote
... believe that everything is interconnected and all events happen for a reason...

so your definition is flawed, along with everything else in your reasoning.

"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2016, 12:17:29 PM »
Is there a point to this thread? I only skimmed your blue text, but the conclusion to your first post makes no sense:

Quote
There are two types of Conspiracy theorists. Transcendental, and  Empiricists.

Transcendentalists believe that everything is interconnected and all events happen for a reason, while empiricists think that randomness and coincidence interact with the causal net of our world, and that belief depends on evidence for each individual claim.
The problem for skepticism is that transcendentalism is intuitive and empiricism is not.

Our propensity for patternicity and agenticity leads us naturally into the transcendental camp of those who see
events in the world as unfolding according to a pre-planned logic, whereas the empirical method of being skeptical until a claim is proven otherwise requires a concerted effort that most of us do not make.

This is how wikipedia defines transcendentalism:

Quote
Transcendentalism was a philosophical movement that developed in the late 1820s and 1830s in the eastern region of the United States. The movement was a reaction to, or protest against the general state of intellectualism and spirituality. The doctrine of the Unitarian church as taught at Harvard Divinity School was of particular interest.

Transcendentalism was rooted in English and German Romanticism, the Biblical criticism of Herder and Schleiermacher, the skepticism of Hume, and the transcendental philosophy of Immanuel Kant and of German Idealism. It was also influenced by Indian religions, especially the Upanishads.

A core belief was in the inherent goodness of both people and nature. They believed that society and its institutions ultimately corrupted the purity of the individual, and had faith that people are at their best when truly "self-reliant" and independent.

Their intellectual preoccupations were less reliant on objective empiricism, and more on subjective intuition. They believed that individuals were capable of generating completely original insights with as little attention and deference to past masters as possible.

Are you suggesting that only conspiracy theorists can be (your new definition of) transcendentalists?

The point to the thread is in the OP. First two  lines.

transcendentalism
transɛnˈdɛnt(ə)lɪz(ə)mˌ,ˌtrɑːn-/
noun
1.
an idealistic philosophical and social movement which developed in New England around 1836 in reaction to rationalism. Influenced by romanticism, Platonism, and Kantian philosophy, it taught that divinity pervades all nature and humanity, and its members held progressive views on feminism and communal living. Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry David Thoreau were central figures.
2.
a system based on the idea that, in order to understand the nature of reality, one must first examine and analyse the reasoning process which governs the nature of experience.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 12:20:07 PM by getrealzommb »

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legion

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2016, 12:20:54 PM »
transcendentalism
transɛnˈdɛnt(ə)lɪz(ə)mˌ,ˌtrɑːn-/
noun
1.
an idealistic philosophical and social movement which developed in New England around 1836 in reaction to rationalism. Influenced by romanticism, Platonism, and Kantian philosophy, it taught that divinity pervades all nature and humanity, and its members held progressive views on feminism and communal living. Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry David Thoreau were central figures.
2.
a system based on the idea that, in order to understand the nature of reality, one must first examine and analyse the reasoning process which governs the nature of experience.


The part you bolded makes complete sense. Your redefinition does not. Ergo, as PL points out, you are an idiot.
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2016, 12:23:17 PM »
I thought he was suggesting that military intelligence organisations don't exist.

Unlikely, as he probably works for one.

The internet is completely infested with their agents & bots; it was designed to be that way from its inception.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

But nobody cares what idiots think...

Of course, I think freely tharefore i must be a CIA or sum-thin eh.  ::)

 FFS read the thread, it applies to you so much. 

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legion

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2016, 12:24:51 PM »
I thought he was suggesting that military intelligence organisations don't exist.

Unlikely, as he probably works for one.

The internet is completely infested with their agents & bots; it was designed to be that way from its inception.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

But nobody cares what idiots think...

Of course, I think freely tharefore i must be a CIA or sum-thin eh.  ::)

 FFS read the thread, it applies to you so much.

Your thread is stupid. And wrong. Why would anyone read it?
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2016, 01:21:01 PM »
I thought he was suggesting that military intelligence organisations don't exist.

Unlikely, as he probably works for one.

The internet is completely infested with their agents & bots; it was designed to be that way from its inception.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

But nobody cares what idiots think...

Of course, I think freely tharefore i must be a CIA or sum-thin eh.  ::)

 FFS read the thread, it applies to you so much.

Your thread is stupid. And wrong. Why would anyone read it?

Meh someone might find it interesting. I have little respect in your views.

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legion

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2016, 01:33:27 PM »
Meh someone might find it interesting. I have little respect in your views.

Likewise.

But, I didn't write this:

Quote
Why do people believe in a flat earth?
We will firstly look at at the closed mind of a conspiracy theorist.

As you are on a conspiracy site, and have made your indoctrinated position quite clear, I would hope that nobody takes you seriously.

I am sure that all intelligent, thinking members consider you a buffoon, as I do.
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2016, 01:42:49 PM »
Meh someone might find it interesting. I have little respect in your views.

Likewise.

But, I didn't write this:

Quote
Why do people believe in a flat earth?
We will firstly look at at the closed mind of a conspiracy theorist.

As you are on a conspiracy site, and have made your indoctrinated position quite clear, I would hope that nobody takes you seriously.

I am sure that all intelligent, thinking members consider you a buffoon, as I do.

That is quite literally the point of my thread. Anyone who reads it and your comment can clearly see it.
Conspiracy theorists, by the way in which they think, are indeed the most closed minded of all. Seeking only confirmation of what they want to believe or have been coerced into believing.

Basically you can't think your way out of the box you have created. Who is the indoctrinated one? -  YOU ARE.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 03:38:55 PM by getrealzommb »

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legion

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2016, 02:23:41 PM »
Meh someone might find it interesting. I have little respect in your views.

Likewise.

But, I didn't write this:

Quote
Why do people believe in a flat earth?
We will firstly look at at the closed mind of a conspiracy theorist.

As you are on a conspiracy site, and have made your indoctrinated position quite clear, I would hope that nobody takes you seriously.

I am sure that all intelligent, thinking members consider you a buffoon, as I do.

That is quite literally the point of my thread. Anyone who reads it and your comment can clearly see it.
Conspiracy theorists, by the way in witch they think, are indeed the most closed minded of all. Seeking only confirmation of what they want to believe or have been coerced into believing.

Basically you can't think your way out of the box you have created. Who is the indoctrinated one? -  YOU ARE.

What box? What are you talking about??
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2016, 04:51:56 PM »
Meh someone might find it interesting. I have little respect in your views.

Likewise.

But, I didn't write this:

Quote
Why do people believe in a flat earth?
We will firstly look at at the closed mind of a conspiracy theorist.

As you are on a conspiracy site, and have made your indoctrinated position quite clear, I would hope that nobody takes you seriously.

I am sure that all intelligent, thinking members consider you a buffoon, as I do.

That is quite literally the point of my thread. Anyone who reads it and your comment can clearly see it.
Conspiracy theorists, by the way in which they think, are indeed the most closed minded of all. Seeking only confirmation of what they want to believe or have been coerced into believing.

Basically you can't think your way out of the box you have created. Who is the indoctrinated one? -  YOU ARE.

I take offense to that. I'm what you call a conspiracy theorist and I'm open minded. Of course I don't want to derail the thread. BTW, I take offense but I'm not mad or anything.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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getrealzommb

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2016, 05:07:52 PM »

I take offense to that. I'm what you call a conspiracy theorist and I'm open minded. Of course I don't want to derail the thread. BTW, I take offense but I'm not mad or anything.

You are quite clearly not open minded. Your mind has been closed by faith. Just because you do not believe in a flat earth, dose not make you open minded. you may be more open minded than some, who knows for sure.

Measure your conspiracy theories against this, and be honest. how many stand up to testing?

1. Proof of the conspiracy supposedly emerges from a pattern of “connecting the dots” between events that need not be causally connected. When no evidence supports these connections except the allegation of the conspiracy, or when the evidence fits equally
well to other causal connections (or randomness) the conspiracy theory is likely false.

2. The agents behind the pattern of the conspiracy would need nearly superhuman power ot technology beyond what is commonly available to pull it off. Most of the time in most circumstances, people are not nearly so powerful as we think they are.

3. The conspiracy is complex and its successful completion demands a large number of elements.

4. The conspiracy involves large numbers of people who would all need to keep silent about their secrets.

5. The conspiracy encompasses some grandiose ambition for control over a nation, economy or political system. If it suggests world domination, it’s probably false. ( what world government is going to just roll over to another?).

6.The conspiracy theory ratchets up from small events that might be true to much larger events that have much lower
probabilities of being true.

7. The conspiracy theory assigns portentous and sinister meanings to what are most likely random and insignificant
events.

8.The theory tends to commingle facts and speculations without distinguishing between the two and without assigning
degrees of probability or of fact.

9.The theorist is extremely and indiscriminately suspicious of any and all government agencies or private organizations.

10.The conspiracy theorist refuses to consider alternative explanations, rejecting all  evidence for his theory and blatantly seeking only confirmatory evidence.

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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2016, 05:31:52 PM »

I take offense to that. I'm what you call a conspiracy theorist and I'm open minded. Of course I don't want to derail the thread. BTW, I take offense but I'm not mad or anything.
Quote
You are quite clearly not open minded. Your mind has been closed by faith. Just because you do not believe in a flat earth, dose not make you open minded. you may be more open minded than some, who knows for sure.

I'm open minded. You prove that a conspiracy theory is false and I'll accept it. I usually assume the incident happened the way they say it happened until I dig deeper.
Quote
Measure your conspiracy theories against this, and be honest. how many stand up to testing?

1. Proof of the conspiracy supposedly emerges from a pattern of “connecting the dots” between events that need not be causally connected. When no evidence supports these connections except the allegation of the conspiracy, or when the evidence fits equally
well to other causal connections (or randomness) the conspiracy theory is likely false.

2. The agents behind the pattern of the conspiracy would need nearly superhuman power ot technology beyond what is commonly available to pull it off. Most of the time in most circumstances, people are not nearly so powerful as we think they are.

3. The conspiracy is complex and its successful completion demands a large number of elements.

4. The conspiracy involves large numbers of people who would all need to keep silent about their secrets.

5. The conspiracy encompasses some grandiose ambition for control over a nation, economy or political system. If it suggests world domination, it’s probably false. ( what world government is going to just roll over to another?).

6.The conspiracy theory ratchets up from small events that might be true to much larger events that have much lower
probabilities of being true.

7. The conspiracy theory assigns portentous and sinister meanings to what are most likely random and insignificant
events.

8.The theory tends to commingle facts and speculations without distinguishing between the two and without assigning
degrees of probability or of fact.

9.The theorist is extremely and indiscriminately suspicious of any and all government agencies or private organizations.

10.The conspiracy theorist refuses to consider alternative explanations, rejecting all  evidence for his theory and blatantly seeking only confirmatory evidence.

I would start off with 9/11. What I suggest is you watch "9/11 in plane sight". And no, that isn't a misprint, you spell it the way you see it. Also I would also check out engineers for 9/11 truth.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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getrealzommb

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  • We do actually live on a ball: But who cares?
Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2016, 05:50:13 PM »

I take offense to that. I'm what you call a conspiracy theorist and I'm open minded. Of course I don't want to derail the thread. BTW, I take offense but I'm not mad or anything.
Quote
You are quite clearly not open minded. Your mind has been closed by faith. Just because you do not believe in a flat earth, dose not make you open minded. you may be more open minded than some, who knows for sure.

I'm open minded. You prove that a conspiracy theory is false and I'll accept it. I usually assume the incident happened the way they say it happened until I dig deeper.
Quote
Measure your conspiracy theories against this, and be honest. how many stand up to testing?

1. Proof of the conspiracy supposedly emerges from a pattern of “connecting the dots” between events that need not be causally connected. When no evidence supports these connections except the allegation of the conspiracy, or when the evidence fits equally
well to other causal connections (or randomness) the conspiracy theory is likely false.

2. The agents behind the pattern of the conspiracy would need nearly superhuman power ot technology beyond what is commonly available to pull it off. Most of the time in most circumstances, people are not nearly so powerful as we think they are.

3. The conspiracy is complex and its successful completion demands a large number of elements.

4. The conspiracy involves large numbers of people who would all need to keep silent about their secrets.

5. The conspiracy encompasses some grandiose ambition for control over a nation, economy or political system. If it suggests world domination, it’s probably false. ( what world government is going to just roll over to another?).

6.The conspiracy theory ratchets up from small events that might be true to much larger events that have much lower
probabilities of being true.

7. The conspiracy theory assigns portentous and sinister meanings to what are most likely random and insignificant
events.

8.The theory tends to commingle facts and speculations without distinguishing between the two and without assigning
degrees of probability or of fact.

9.The theorist is extremely and indiscriminately suspicious of any and all government agencies or private organizations.

10.The conspiracy theorist refuses to consider alternative explanations, rejecting all  evidence for his theory and blatantly seeking only confirmatory evidence.

I would start off with 9/11. What I suggest is you watch "9/11 in plane sight". And no, that isn't a misprint, you spell it the way you see it. Also I would also check out engineers for 9/11 truth.

I have never claimed that nobody conspires against us.
There is probably small amounts of truth in many conspiracy theories, trouble is people go mad and end up way off the mark. These people often end up looking paranoid and look insane. These people also usually end up off down the rabbit hole, seeking bigger and bigger conspiracy theories. They often then find themselves locked in a box of closed mindedness and do not even know it.

I have seen that Video.
I will not just accept another individuals view on things, unconditionally. I watched it full of skepticism and gave the subject much thought.

I can categorically tell you that in my opinion. The situation was real, a terror attack. however building 7 was more likely leveled on purpose to cover the fact they new it was coming and failed to stop it or did not want to stop it, to justify a war? maybe... also for insurance reasons no doubt. The pentagon incident has a fishy smell. something dose not add up. I will refrain from spouting my reasons online.

You luke watch to much YouTube. You have to learn to whittle fact from fiction, sort the wheat from the chaff. Your opinion on my brother in law's group also proves the same. You would rather take somebody who is trying to sell a story's word over logical, intellectual reasoning and my brother in laws testimony.

Use the guide I posted and see what stacks up.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 06:27:49 PM by getrealzommb »

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Luke 22:35-38

  • 3608
  • The earth is a globe, DUH! prove its not
Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2016, 03:57:28 PM »

I take offense to that. I'm what you call a conspiracy theorist and I'm open minded. Of course I don't want to derail the thread. BTW, I take offense but I'm not mad or anything.
Quote
You are quite clearly not open minded. Your mind has been closed by faith. Just because you do not believe in a flat earth, dose not make you open minded. you may be more open minded than some, who knows for sure.

I'm open minded. You prove that a conspiracy theory is false and I'll accept it. I usually assume the incident happened the way they say it happened until I dig deeper.
Quote
Measure your conspiracy theories against this, and be honest. how many stand up to testing?

1. Proof of the conspiracy supposedly emerges from a pattern of “connecting the dots” between events that need not be causally connected. When no evidence supports these connections except the allegation of the conspiracy, or when the evidence fits equally
well to other causal connections (or randomness) the conspiracy theory is likely false.

2. The agents behind the pattern of the conspiracy would need nearly superhuman power ot technology beyond what is commonly available to pull it off. Most of the time in most circumstances, people are not nearly so powerful as we think they are.

3. The conspiracy is complex and its successful completion demands a large number of elements.

4. The conspiracy involves large numbers of people who would all need to keep silent about their secrets.

5. The conspiracy encompasses some grandiose ambition for control over a nation, economy or political system. If it suggests world domination, it’s probably false. ( what world government is going to just roll over to another?).

6.The conspiracy theory ratchets up from small events that might be true to much larger events that have much lower
probabilities of being true.

7. The conspiracy theory assigns portentous and sinister meanings to what are most likely random and insignificant
events.

8.The theory tends to commingle facts and speculations without distinguishing between the two and without assigning
degrees of probability or of fact.

9.The theorist is extremely and indiscriminately suspicious of any and all government agencies or private organizations.

10.The conspiracy theorist refuses to consider alternative explanations, rejecting all  evidence for his theory and blatantly seeking only confirmatory evidence.

I would start off with 9/11. What I suggest is you watch "9/11 in plane sight". And no, that isn't a misprint, you spell it the way you see it. Also I would also check out engineers for 9/11 truth.

I have never claimed that nobody conspires against us.
There is probably small amounts of truth in many conspiracy theories, trouble is people go mad and end up way off the mark. These people often end up looking paranoid and look insane. These people also usually end up off down the rabbit hole, seeking bigger and bigger conspiracy theories. They often then find themselves locked in a box of closed mindedness and do not even know it.

I have seen that Video.
I will not just accept another individuals view on things, unconditionally. I watched it full of skepticism and gave the subject much thought.

I can categorically tell you that in my opinion. The situation was real, a terror attack. however building 7 was more likely leveled on purpose to cover the fact they new it was coming and failed to stop it or did not want to stop it, to justify a war? maybe... also for insurance reasons no doubt. The pentagon incident has a fishy smell. something dose not add up. I will refrain from spouting my reasons online.

You luke watch to much YouTube. You have to learn to whittle fact from fiction, sort the wheat from the chaff. Your opinion on my brother in law's group also proves the same. You would rather take somebody who is trying to sell a story's word over logical, intellectual reasoning and my brother in laws testimony.

Use the guide I posted and see what stacks up.

Sorry I'm late. For some reason I got a email notification only to find out this thread hasn't been updated in 120 days or so. Anyway like I said I am open minded. The fact that my beliefs are opposed to yours doesn't indicate either side is narrow minded. As to your brother he shut down the conversation before it got anywhere with his comment about he doesn't care if the masons are satanic or not.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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iWitness

  • 1173
  • If the earth is round then what is your problem?
Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2016, 05:04:26 PM »
The very fact you have people telling you that conspiracies never happen, is a red flag.

What difference does it make if people believe in or research conspiracies? In a truly free and open society you would call these people "detectives" and reward them for their efforts in exposing corruption.

Everyone knows humans lie, cheat, steal and murder. It happens on a local level so why not on a large one?

There is every bit of reason to consider the possibility of conspiracies when there is government cover up, destruction of evidence (like in 9/11), killing of witnesses, blatant lies, etc.

It would make sense that the news and politicians would call people "conspiracy nuts" if they were involved in corruption. This is to make them look crazy and anyone that questions them.
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2016, 07:41:59 PM »
The very fact you have people telling you that conspiracies never happen, is a red flag.

What difference does it make if people believe in or research conspiracies? In a truly free and open society you would call these people "detectives" and reward them for their efforts in exposing corruption.

Everyone knows humans lie, cheat, steal and murder. It happens on a local level so why not on a large one?

There is every bit of reason to consider the possibility of conspiracies when there is government cover up, destruction of evidence (like in 9/11), killing of witnesses, blatant lies, etc.

It would make sense that the news and politicians would call people "conspiracy nuts" if they were involved in corruption. This is to make them look crazy and anyone that questions them.

But what I find telling is that most Flat Earthers seem to go in for not just one but for numerous conspiracies.

Just a few
  • Hiding the earth's shape by NASA, the government, every airline pilot, every ship's navigator and innumerable others.
  • Pretending the existence of the South Pole.
  • Hiding the "fact" that travel to Antarctica forbidden.
  • Denying that armed troops guard Antarctica.
  • Claiming that Southern Hemisphere air-routes are genuine.
  • Claiming that the Sandy Hook Massacre was not an "inside job".
  • Claiming that the 9/11 attacks were not an "inside job".
  • Claiming that nuclear weapons really were used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
  • Claiming that nuclear weapons are real at all.
  • Claiming that "Chem-trails" are only "con-trails".
and numerous others.

Yes, conspiracies exist and a conspiracy cannot be disproven, but when someone claims that all evidence against his belief is fake and part of a conspiracy
and then believes numerous other unrelated conspiracies, then I get very suspicious.







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disputeone

  • 25620
  • Or should I?
Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2016, 07:52:21 PM »
Quote from: getrealzommb link=topic=65382.msg1744476#msg1744476
I can categorically tell you that in my opinion. The situation was real, a terror attack. however building 7 was more likely leveled on purpose to cover the fact they new it was coming and failed to stop it or did not want to stop it, to justify a war? maybe... also for insurance reasons no doubt. The pentagon incident has a fishy smell. something dose not add up. I will refrain from spouting my reasons online.

Totally agree there.

Luke thinking building 7s collapse was a set up isn't a conspiracy theory, it's just having some knowledge of structual engineering.

Sorry if I derailed.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns. 

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Bom Tishop

  • 11198
  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2016, 10:38:15 PM »
I agree with you getreal for the most part then I must stop. You seem to air to the side of believing everything inside the box and dismissing the rest. Others seem to lean to the side of believing everything outside the box and dismissing the rest. I have always believed the truth is dead center of the two. Most seem to over look it, or so busy looking for something or at something, the truth is slipped right by them. Just like a magic show, distraction being a determinants number one weapon of choice.

Then of course you have those who are COMPLETELY inside or outside the box...either one of those people can and will go off the deep end to whatever side of the pool they are on. Both is equally as dangerous....

There is nothing wrong with being skeptical of EVERYTHING...even the God I believe in says be skeptical of Him. So this is the mind set I live by. I believe nothing that anyone is literally selling...all the alex jones in the world, or in a 180 all the governments and mainstream lovers in the world. I try and live in the middle, everything that is presented to me I take it one at a time. I keep it if the unbiased and unmolested evidence supports it, I dump it if that evidence squashes it. Just like in business, I have no love or bias for any of it, I just need the facts, and will deal with it accordingly.

Just two examples, the God I believe in, I analyzed the according facts of man (science etc), then analyzed the facts said God has given. I deemed mans explanations and alternatives flawed, without merit. This was not a quick decision, this involved studies of many years. Of course, there is a deal of faith to this exact example of course, I will never discount that. Though blind faith to MY eyes is only about 10-15 percent. This is last part is an opinion, not a hard fact.


Or move on to something of only facts. Lets use 911 or the intentions of the government. 9\11 to me was beyond easy once I started using my mind and not heart. During the original incident, I was mad as hell and wanted the world to pay, which is the emotion the government needed at the time. Even though in the back of my mind, I knew shit doesn't happen like I saw it how it was shown. Then once I came back to rational senses, it was very easy to figure out the story was bogus.

I will never know the exact motives or exactly how they were brought down, but I believe I am at least within 85 percent of the truth. The things I do know for sure, is the story is a lie, and the motive is a lie. That is all that is really important I suppose. Though not a structural engineer some of the things I specialize in is Metallurgy, fuel application and theory, fabrication and design along with a few other things that is pertinent to. I may not design the buildings, but a lot of the building blocks to those are things I have specific knowledge in. Either between the almost 8 years in college, or my own business geared towards it for a decade. I would say I have a right to have my opinion on the matter without being considered just a keyboard warrior.

(Just an interesting tid bit, I have exposed different metals and materials to almost 275,000psi and close to 20k f of temp and never "vaporized" anything. Liquefied, shattered, crushed, warped and many other weird things, never vaporized. Any report that uses a fantasy convenient term as an explanation of over 50 percent of its theory should be immediately questioned just on this merit alone, leaving alone the other 1000s of issues)

Or you say the government is usually on the up and up. Considering that only using facts you can realize the government is lying on the 9 11 issue, what else would they do and lie about?? They obviously have no shame or moral compass. Everything they do or say is not a lie, but I imagine it is somewhere over the 50 percent mark. You don't need to buy any self help books or alex jones horse shit to understand this.

Just follow the money, the info is free. Follow what corps are doing what, follow the "BIG 4" that are top share holders in almost everything company on the forbes 100s list. Follow the money trail of the people running the country, follow their decisions, and so forth so forth. It is not really a mystery what is happening or who is out for who....just watch the areas they don't expect conspiracy theorist to watch, just like watching the left hand when a magician is trying to get you to watch the right.

You will see the truth of whatever it is..... maybe there is a card up that sleeve, or maybe there is nothing. Stay neutral and open, then you will see the unbiased truth.  It could be great or horrible...but it will at least be the truth


 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 10:41:27 PM by Babyhighspeed »
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

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Username

  • Administrator
  • 17990
Re: The Flat Earth Society: The belief and The Conspiricy.
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2016, 04:44:56 AM »
Most of these, if not all, don't apply to Flat Earth Theory. In so much as they do, they apply to the round earth. Let me demonstrate:
Determining  the invalidity of a conspiracy.

1. Proof of the conspiracy supposedly emerges from a pattern of “connecting the dots” between events that need not be causally connected. When no evidence supports these connections except the allegation of the conspiracy, or when the evidence fits equally
well to other causal connections (or randomness) the conspiracy theory is likely false.
All knowledge flows from the font of connecting events that need not be causally connected. While correlation is not causation, correlation is our only tool to find causation.
Quote
2. The agents behind the pattern of the conspiracy would need nearly superhuman power ot technology beyond what is commonly available to pull it off. Most of the time in most circumstances, people are not nearly so powerful as we think they are.
No superhuman abilities are needed.
Quote
3. The conspiracy is complex and its successful completion demands a large number of elements.
The round earth theory is complex and its success demands a large number of elements, some of which we already know don't match up.
Quote
4. The conspiracy involves large numbers of people who would all need to keep silent about their secrets.
If a conspiracy exists, which it need not for the earth to be flat, only a few would need to know.
Quote
5. The conspiracy encompasses some grandiose ambition for control over a nation, economy or political system. If it suggests world domination, it’s probably false. ( what world government is going to just roll over to another?).
Basis for this assessment?
Quote
6.The conspiracy theory ratchets up from small events that might be true to much larger events that have much lower
probabilities of being true.
This is the basis of all inductive science, and round earth science in general. Its far less likely that the Earth is Round than it is that the Coriolis effect happens, for example. There are additional solutions of infinite count always that will explain any set of empirical data.
Quote
7. The conspiracy theory assigns portentous and sinister meanings to what are most likely random and insignificant
events.
Such as?
Quote
8.The theory tends to commingle facts and speculations without distinguishing between the two and without assigning
degrees of probability or of fact.
This happens far more often with round earth theory. Take the toilet myth. Or that snipers account for the world turning. Or any of the other silly round earth myths you've likely heard in school.
Quote
9.The theorist is extremely and indiscriminately suspicious of any and all government agencies or private organizations.
We aren't really suspicious of any and all government agencies, nor all private organizations. However, if suspicion of man and man in power is really warrant for dismal, I think the criterion need to be reexamined.
Quote
10.The conspiracy theorist refuses to consider alternative explanations, rejecting all  evidence for his theory and blatantly seeking only confirmatory evidence.[/color]
This actually happens again far more often with round earth theory. In general the flat earther is very open to hearing alternate explanations, almost to a fault.


In addition, I am an example of a flat earther that in general doesn't believe in a conspiracy.
So long and thanks for all the fish