iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight

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AdamSK

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2016, 10:33:55 AM »
The other test we should be able to do is the following.

Have a jet of air blowing straight up.  Put a piece of cardboard in it such that it is suspended in the air - the downward force is entirely counteracted by the upward force of the air.
Now, replace the piece of cardboard with a sheet of metal.  If the "weight is due to air pressure" model is accurate, than the metal should be suspended in the air exactly as the cardboard was, correct?  Because air acts proportionately on both objects, so however much more the downward air is pressing on the object should be the same proportion as the upward air.

Do you agree with this, that the same pressure of upward air will counteract the weight of any object?  If not, why not?  That seems to be what your model would predict.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2016, 10:58:31 AM »
Still waiting for your proof that same size objects of lead and aluminium fall at different speeds.
I don't have a skyscraper to prove this, so it's going to be physically hard to prove and you know this.
Not at all.  When Galileo was studying gravity, he would roll balls of different weights down a ramp in order to slow the rate at which things fell.
I thought people like you went with the same sized object but different density fall at the same time. Are you now changing from this?
Not really.  If air resistance is ignored, then objects with different densities will fall at the same rate.  However, air resistance can and will affect less dense objects far more than more dense objects.  For very low density objects, buoyancy can become a significant factor as well.
Please explain for lead and copper objects of the same size.

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AdamSK

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2016, 11:08:03 AM »
The air resistance on lead and copper balls of the same size should be very little, so if you drop them they should accelerate at the same rate.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2016, 11:09:42 AM »
How does Air Pressure cause weight?
The word "weight" is defined as such.  There is no causality. 




Have a jet of air blowing straight up. 
Able??????????
Come back when you have (a) constructed such a magical jet and (b) proven it is blowing air "straight" up. 



HINT:  Do not bother.  It is impossible to construct what you propose as an experiment and your proposal has NO BEARING upon reality. 











Message to honest true-earthers: 
The true form of the earth is not a function of any answers to ridiculous and irrelevent questions. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 11:11:15 AM by Charming Anarchist »

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #94 on: August 01, 2016, 11:15:27 AM »
The air resistance on lead and copper balls of the same size should be very little, so if you drop them they should accelerate at the same rate.
What are the units of 'air resistance' and how is it measured?

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Blue_Moon

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #95 on: August 01, 2016, 11:32:03 AM »
Have a jet of air blowing straight up. 
Able??????????
Come back when you have (a) constructed such a magical jet and (b) proven it is blowing air "straight" up. 

HINT:  Do not bother.  It is impossible to construct what you propose as an experiment and your proposal has NO BEARING upon reality. 

I don't see what your problem is.  What AdamSK is describing could easily be accomplished with a hair dryer. 
Aerospace Engineering Student
NASA Enthusiast
Round Earth Advocate
More qualified to speak for NASA than you are to speak against them

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markjo

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #96 on: August 01, 2016, 12:37:37 PM »
Still waiting for your proof that same size objects of lead and aluminium fall at different speeds.
I don't have a skyscraper to prove this, so it's going to be physically hard to prove and you know this.
Not at all.  When Galileo was studying gravity, he would roll balls of different weights down a ramp in order to slow the rate at which things fell.
I thought people like you went with the same sized object but different density fall at the same time. Are you now changing from this?
Not really.  If air resistance is ignored, then objects with different densities will fall at the same rate.  However, air resistance can and will affect less dense objects far more than more dense objects.  For very low density objects, buoyancy can become a significant factor as well.
Please explain for lead and copper objects of the same size.
Explain what? ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2016, 12:42:26 PM »
I don't see what your problem is.  What AdamSK is describing could easily be accomplished with a hair dryer.
Yet, he needs to come to The Flat Earth Society to get some attention before he can test his non-existent/impossible gadgetry. 

You shills are terrible. 
Stop lying. 

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markjo

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #98 on: August 01, 2016, 12:49:11 PM »
The air resistance on lead and copper balls of the same size should be very little, so if you drop them they should accelerate at the same rate.
What are the units of 'air resistance' and how is it measured?
There are several different types of air resistance (drag), but like other forms of resistance, drag is a force and as such is generally measured in newtons.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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neutrino

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2016, 12:50:48 PM »
I'm sorry, I was typing a long post here and then just wiped everything.
All this thread is a chunk of nonsense. It's so stupid I wouldn't even comment.
Atmospheric pressure causes weight? Are you mad? So on planets where there is almost no atmospheric pressure, there is no force pulling things toward they center? Why asteroids fall on surface of Mercury, Mars and Moon?
There's no such thing as planets and asteroids and what not. All that stuff is gunk. It's nonsense, just like a silly spinning Earth is absolute nonsense.

Atmospheric pressure doesn't cause weight. Man invents weight by inventing a measuring device, called a scale to show a reading of any object placed upon that scale against atmospheric pressure, where the object resists the pressure of atmosphere by using the scale plate as a resistant area in order to stop being pushed down.
The scale plate is designed to give way to that pressure which shows as a reading of what we call, weight.

Students and people of this Earth are duped into believing that a fictional force of gravity that isn't a force but is a force when needed but not a force when magical things need explaining...and so on and so on and so on.

Start thinking for yourself. Seriously.
Reading this and watching Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Mars and Saturn at the same time. Guys today you can see all of these planets in the evening! Go to star party! Furthermore, four Galilean Moons of Jupiter were never so beautiful as today. I hope you have a telescope on a motorized mount to automatically compensate Earth rotation. Otherwise planets are going pretty fast out of field of view of the eyepieces.
 ;D ;D ;D
FET is religion. No evidence will convince a FE-er. It would be easier to convince Muslims they are wrong.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #100 on: August 01, 2016, 01:02:36 PM »
Still waiting for your proof that same size objects of lead and aluminium fall at different speeds.
I don't have a skyscraper to prove this, so it's going to be physically hard to prove and you know this.
Not at all.  When Galileo was studying gravity, he would roll balls of different weights down a ramp in order to slow the rate at which things fell.
I thought people like you went with the same sized object but different density fall at the same time. Are you now changing from this?
Not really.  If air resistance is ignored, then objects with different densities will fall at the same rate.  However, air resistance can and will affect less dense objects far more than more dense objects.  For very low density objects, buoyancy can become a significant factor as well.
Please explain for lead and copper objects of the same size.
Explain what? ???
Scepti says lead and copper fall at different rates.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #101 on: August 01, 2016, 01:08:15 PM »
How do balloons work?
I wonder how obnoxious I can make my signature?
Please give me ideas.

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markjo

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #102 on: August 01, 2016, 01:11:00 PM »
Still waiting for your proof that same size objects of lead and aluminium fall at different speeds.
I don't have a skyscraper to prove this, so it's going to be physically hard to prove and you know this.
Not at all.  When Galileo was studying gravity, he would roll balls of different weights down a ramp in order to slow the rate at which things fell.
I thought people like you went with the same sized object but different density fall at the same time. Are you now changing from this?
Not really.  If air resistance is ignored, then objects with different densities will fall at the same rate.  However, air resistance can and will affect less dense objects far more than more dense objects.  For very low density objects, buoyancy can become a significant factor as well.
Please explain for lead and copper objects of the same size.
Explain what? ???
Scepti says lead and copper fall at different rates.
Yes, well scepti says a lot of things that are wrong.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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neutrino

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #103 on: August 01, 2016, 01:14:38 PM »
How do balloons work?
They don't. It's a conspiracy of NASA. I've never saw a balloon myself..
FET is religion. No evidence will convince a FE-er. It would be easier to convince Muslims they are wrong.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #104 on: August 01, 2016, 01:34:07 PM »
How does Air Pressure cause weight?
The word "weight" is defined as such.  There is no causality. 




Have a jet of air blowing straight up. 
Able??????????
Come back when you have (a) constructed such a magical jet and (b) proven it is blowing air "straight" up. 



HINT:  Do not bother.  It is impossible to construct what you propose as an experiment and your proposal has NO BEARING upon reality. 











Message to honest true-earthers: 
The true form of the earth is not a function of any answers to ridiculous and irrelevent questions.

Are you saying you can't point a desk fan up?

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #105 on: August 01, 2016, 02:21:16 PM »
Sure it will.  Shall we perform an experiment and find out?
Yes.

Helicopter blades need to be made of something solid enough to stay rigid against the air that they are pushing.  The force of air would be the same for the same size, but paper or leather blades would not be strong enough for the force.
This is why wind power blades, for example, are now being made out of lightweight carbon composite instead of steel.  The same size blade receives the same force from the wind regardless of what it's made of, but the carbon composite is strong enough to stay rigid against the air while being light enough to lose significantly less energy from friction and strain on the mechanisms.
If what you are saying is true, then it would make sense to make wind power blades out of the densest material possible to harness more wind energy - but that is the opposite of what they are doing.
You lost the whole point as to what we were talking about. Look back.




I thought you said the air pushes much harder on the steel than it does on the cardboard.  Why doesn't the steel move as easily as the cardboard?
Because it repels atmospheric pressure much more than the cardboard.

Let's say I set up two identical lightweight carts on wheels, and attach each one to a stationary pole with an identical spring.  I give both carts sails of the same thickness and area, but one of the carts has a steel sail and the other a cardboard sail.  I then turn on a large fan to blow air on each of them, and measure how much the springs contract.

What does your model predict that I would measure, and why?  Will the cart with the steel sail cause its spring to contract by roughly the same amount (indicating it is experiencing the same force from the wind), or significantly more (indicating the wind is pressing harder against it), or less (indicating the wind is pressing not as hard against it)?
That all depends on the rigidness of the cardboard sail. It's a bit of a duff thought experiment to be honest.

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #106 on: August 01, 2016, 02:23:43 PM »
Still waiting for your proof that same size objects of lead and aluminium fall at different speeds.
I don't have a skyscraper to prove this, so it's going to be physically hard to prove and you know this.
Not at all.  When Galileo was studying gravity, he would roll balls of different weights down a ramp in order to slow the rate at which things fell.
I thought people like you went with the same sized object but different density fall at the same time. Are you now changing from this?
Not really.  If air resistance is ignored, then objects with different densities will fall at the same rate.  However, air resistance can and will affect less dense objects far more than more dense objects.  For very low density objects, buoyancy can become a significant factor as well.
Yep, more significant than you care to admit to.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #107 on: August 01, 2016, 02:27:27 PM »
Still waiting for your proof that same size objects of lead and aluminium fall at different speeds.
I don't have a skyscraper to prove this, so it's going to be physically hard to prove and you know this.
Not at all.  When Galileo was studying gravity, he would roll balls of different weights down a ramp in order to slow the rate at which things fell.
I thought people like you went with the same sized object but different density fall at the same time. Are you now changing from this?
Not really.  If air resistance is ignored, then objects with different densities will fall at the same rate.  However, air resistance can and will affect less dense objects far more than more dense objects.  For very low density objects, buoyancy can become a significant factor as well.
Yep, more significant than you care to admit to.
Some numbers please.   And speed of fall in a vacuum for different objects please.

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Woody

  • 1144
Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #108 on: August 01, 2016, 02:32:46 PM »
I'll just ask this one question since I think it may have been missed in my last post.

I pushed my refrigerator today and moved it.  I am unable to lift my refrigerator completely off the ground myself.  Why does it require less force to move something by pushing it than it does to lift it?  If air pressure is what keeps things on the ground why does it only act in one direction? 

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #109 on: August 01, 2016, 02:48:27 PM »
Scepti

If you consider yourself a FE scientist, or what ever you prefer to call it, you really need to take a long hard look at the questions people are posting here.

Lets just say you are on the right track.  If you ignore the tough questions and just wave them away your hypothesis will remain just that.
It will most likely remain so no matter what.
The thing is, I always try to answer all questions but some questions are put in such a way as to try and get me to answer where it appears that I'm contradicting myself. It's a deliberate attempt to twist, so I ignore them.
I think I do a very good job of answering to many. The issue is in people just not grasping or not wanting to grasp what's being said.
Your denpressure hypothesis fails to answer many questions adequately and I assume you do not consider yourself all knowing and infallible.  Good scientist not only look at what proves them right, but also what proves them wrong. 

Questions denpressure fails to answer:

What keeps the atmosphere in place?
A naturally formed dome of hydrogen/helium (possibly) ice, formed due to the expansion of it's molecules into a near dormant state against a true vacuum (possibly).

 
Nature likes balance and pressure will equalize unless some thing prevents it from happening.  Why does the atmosphere not move towards the vacuum of space?
Because space does not exist. The more reality is what's known as (to our perception) a true vacuum or the absence of all matter, (Earth) leaving, basically blackness to our vision.
Why does the atmosphere become denser at lower altitudes?
Compression.
Stack billions of footballs and soon enough the bottom ones will be crushed to the size of peas and yet the top ones will stay as a football.
Atmospheric stacking.


 
Simple experiments can be conducted to show that a liquid of the same density will not do this unless something is acting on it.
And what is acting on liquid?....Atmospheric pressure.

Why do things fall at the same rate regardless of the surface area or density? Want to see this for yourself make a vacuum chamber and drop different things in it.
A vacuum chamber, or shall we say, a chamber with lower pressure simply allows objects to come up against less resistance to their mass. They don't fall at the same rate, it just appears that they do, due to the chambers not being of any great height.


Why does it require less energy to move horizontally then it does to move upward?
If what is holding me on the ground is air pressure and it is acting equally in all directions.

I will leave it a that.
Because walking horizontally requires little bending of the limbs to push away atmospheric pressure.
Walking up a gradient or a ladder/stairs requires you to push your limbs much more into atmospheric pressure.
You may think it seems little but it is far from it when you think carefully about it.


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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #110 on: August 01, 2016, 02:51:58 PM »
The other test we should be able to do is the following.

Have a jet of air blowing straight up.  Put a piece of cardboard in it such that it is suspended in the air - the downward force is entirely counteracted by the upward force of the air.
Now, replace the piece of cardboard with a sheet of metal.  If the "weight is due to air pressure" model is accurate, than the metal should be suspended in the air exactly as the cardboard was, correct?
 Because air acts proportionately on both objects, so however much more the downward air is pressing on the object should be the same proportion as the upward air.

Do you agree with this, that the same pressure of upward air will counteract the weight of any object?  If not, why not?  That seems to be what your model would predict.
No I don't agree with it and the reason I don't is because of what I explained earlier about the metal displacing more atmosphere due to its density not allowing atmosphere to penetrate the metal anywhere near the amount it can with cardboard.

Honestly I want  you to seriously try to grasp what I'm telling you.

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #111 on: August 01, 2016, 02:53:23 PM »
The air resistance on lead and copper balls of the same size should be very little, so if you drop them they should accelerate at the same rate.
Yep. It woould take one hell of a height to show the minor differences of both balls, because both balls displace similar but not quite the same atmosphere.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #112 on: August 01, 2016, 02:56:42 PM »

Why do things fall at the same rate regardless of the surface area or density? Want to see this for yourself make a vacuum chamber and drop different things in it.
A vacuum chamber, or shall we say, a chamber with lower pressure simply allows objects to come up against less resistance to their mass. They don't fall at the same rate, it just appears that they do, due to the chambers not being of any great height.


They do fall at the same rate.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/E43-CfukEgs

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #113 on: August 01, 2016, 02:56:48 PM »
I'm sorry, I was typing a long post here and then just wiped everything.
All this thread is a chunk of nonsense. It's so stupid I wouldn't even comment.
Atmospheric pressure causes weight? Are you mad? So on planets where there is almost no atmospheric pressure, there is no force pulling things toward they center? Why asteroids fall on surface of Mercury, Mars and Moon?
There's no such thing as planets and asteroids and what not. All that stuff is gunk. It's nonsense, just like a silly spinning Earth is absolute nonsense.

Atmospheric pressure doesn't cause weight. Man invents weight by inventing a measuring device, called a scale to show a reading of any object placed upon that scale against atmospheric pressure, where the object resists the pressure of atmosphere by using the scale plate as a resistant area in order to stop being pushed down.
The scale plate is designed to give way to that pressure which shows as a reading of what we call, weight.

Students and people of this Earth are duped into believing that a fictional force of gravity that isn't a force but is a force when needed but not a force when magical things need explaining...and so on and so on and so on.

Start thinking for yourself. Seriously.
Reading this and watching Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Mars and Saturn at the same time. Guys today you can see all of these planets in the evening! Go to star party! Furthermore, four Galilean Moons of Jupiter were never so beautiful as today. I hope you have a telescope on a motorized mount to automatically compensate Earth rotation. Otherwise planets are going pretty fast out of field of view of the eyepieces.
 ;D ;D ;D
You can see reflections of somethings that you believe are planets. Whatever you see in that dark sky, apart from the man made objects, like planes and falling hydrogen ice build up, are simply Earth projections.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #114 on: August 01, 2016, 02:57:29 PM »
The air resistance on lead and copper balls of the same size should be very little, so if you drop them they should accelerate at the same rate.
Yep. It woould take one hell of a height to show the minor differences of both balls, because both balls displace similar but not quite the same atmosphere.
How do we measure the displacement of the atmosphere for an object?  What are the units?

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #115 on: August 01, 2016, 02:58:35 PM »
I'm sorry, I was typing a long post here and then just wiped everything.
All this thread is a chunk of nonsense. It's so stupid I wouldn't even comment.
Atmospheric pressure causes weight? Are you mad? So on planets where there is almost no atmospheric pressure, there is no force pulling things toward they center? Why asteroids fall on surface of Mercury, Mars and Moon?
There's no such thing as planets and asteroids and what not. All that stuff is gunk. It's nonsense, just like a silly spinning Earth is absolute nonsense.

Atmospheric pressure doesn't cause weight. Man invents weight by inventing a measuring device, called a scale to show a reading of any object placed upon that scale against atmospheric pressure, where the object resists the pressure of atmosphere by using the scale plate as a resistant area in order to stop being pushed down.
The scale plate is designed to give way to that pressure which shows as a reading of what we call, weight.

Students and people of this Earth are duped into believing that a fictional force of gravity that isn't a force but is a force when needed but not a force when magical things need explaining...and so on and so on and so on.

Start thinking for yourself. Seriously.
Reading this and watching Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Mars and Saturn at the same time. Guys today you can see all of these planets in the evening! Go to star party! Furthermore, four Galilean Moons of Jupiter were never so beautiful as today. I hope you have a telescope on a motorized mount to automatically compensate Earth rotation. Otherwise planets are going pretty fast out of field of view of the eyepieces.
 ;D ;D ;D
You can see reflections of somethings that you believe are planets. Whatever you see in that dark sky, apart from the man made objects, like planes and falling hydrogen ice build up, are simply Earth projections.
Projections from where exactly?

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #116 on: August 01, 2016, 02:58:44 PM »

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #117 on: August 01, 2016, 03:05:30 PM »
I'll just ask this one question since I think it may have been missed in my last post.

I pushed my refrigerator today and moved it.  I am unable to lift my refrigerator completely off the ground myself.  Why does it require less force to move something by pushing it than it does to lift it?  If air pressure is what keeps things on the ground why does it only act in one direction?
Because you are using the floor as your leverage to push atmosphere out of the way at the front and forcing it to come round the back of you which aids you in your push, once you are underway.
It's why it's easier to push something once you gain motion, because you are compressing the air in front of the fridge and yourself and sending it around the fridge as well as dropping the pressure down from above as you move. This creates a push back on your.

To lift  your fridge, you have to not only bend your limbs but also push that fridge into atmosphere to send that compressed atmosphere around that fridge. The issue is in using the entire fridge to compress it whilst only using your limbs as leverage as opposed to having the use of limbs plus fridge on the floor as leverage in your horizontal movement.

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #118 on: August 01, 2016, 03:09:18 PM »

Why do things fall at the same rate regardless of the surface area or density? Want to see this for yourself make a vacuum chamber and drop different things in it.
A vacuum chamber, or shall we say, a chamber with lower pressure simply allows objects to come up against less resistance to their mass. They don't fall at the same rate, it just appears that they do, due to the chambers not being of any great height.


They do fall at the same rate.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/E43-CfukEgs
That is an absolute stinking con and anyone should be able to see that.
They all act like they've never ever seen something like this before in this massive supposed vacuum chamber.
The reality is, they actually haven't seen anything that remotely resembles what they're trying to con us all with.

The shaky pipes as an extra gimmick to have us all believe that this big numb room is some kind of frigging vacuum chamber.
It's nonsense.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #119 on: August 01, 2016, 03:13:41 PM »
I'll just ask this one question since I think it may have been missed in

I pushed my refrigerator today and moved it.  I am unable to lift my refrigerator completely off the ground myself.  Why does it require less force to move something by pushing it than it does to lift it?  If air pressure is what keeps things on the ground why does it only act in one direction?
Because you are using the floor as your leverage to push atmosphere out of the way at the front and forcing it to come round the back of you which aids you in your push, once you are underway.
It's why it's easier to push something once you gain motion, because you are compressing the air in front of the fridge and yourself and sending it around the fridge as well as dropping the pressure down from above as you move. This creates a push back on your.

To lift  your fridge, you have to not only bend your limbs but also push that fridge into atmosphere to send that compressed atmosphere around that fridge. The issue is in using the entire fridge to compress it whilst only using your limbs as leverage as opposed to having the use of limbs plus fridge on the floor as leverage in your horizontal movement.

What?

You'd have less air resistance and surface friction going up than forwards if only air pressure played a role in your definition and therefore it'd be easier to go up then forward with the fridge.   But it's not.