iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #180 on: August 05, 2016, 12:46:55 AM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.


Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #181 on: August 05, 2016, 12:59:49 AM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.

Scepti, good morning! Did you miss what happened on the other thread about denpressure? We conducted a couple of experiments. We are awaiting your comment.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #182 on: August 05, 2016, 01:11:10 AM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.
Just to confirm that therefore weight changes with atmospheric pressure.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #183 on: August 05, 2016, 02:26:01 AM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.
Are you using random comment generator? :) There's higher atmospheric pressure underwater.

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #184 on: August 05, 2016, 02:28:54 AM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.
Are you using random comment generator? :) There's higher atmospheric pressure underwater.
What are you talking about?

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #185 on: August 05, 2016, 05:41:07 AM »
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about pressure. Here:
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #186 on: August 05, 2016, 06:56:36 AM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.
Therefore the weight of an object varies depending the current atmospheric pressure.

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #187 on: August 05, 2016, 10:59:27 AM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.
Therefore the weight of an object varies depending the current atmospheric pressure.
Yep, the scale readout would differ marginally depending on variations in atmospheric pressure.
You do know how a barometer works, right?

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #188 on: August 05, 2016, 11:47:39 AM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.
Therefore the weight of an object varies depending the current atmospheric pressure.
Yep, the scale readout would differ marginally depending on variations in atmospheric pressure.
You do know how a barometer works, right?
Evidently, you don't. Because if it worked the way I think you think it works, it wouldn't had been called differently because it's scales. Just... you know... on a different scale. :)

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #189 on: August 05, 2016, 12:10:07 PM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.
Therefore the weight of an object varies depending the current atmospheric pressure.
Yep, the scale readout would differ marginally depending on variations in atmospheric pressure.
You do know how a barometer works, right?
I do know how, please give details of a nominal 1kg object varying with typical weather changes.

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markjo

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #190 on: August 05, 2016, 12:22:24 PM »
...O-o-o-oka-a-a-ay... If air pressure causes weight, why doesn't water pressure cause more weight? Or if you claim water isn't a gas, why heavier/lighter gas in a pressure chamber doesn't cause more/less weight respectively?
Atmospheric pressure is the reason why everything has weight on man made scales.
Therefore the weight of an object varies depending the current atmospheric pressure.
Yep, the scale readout would differ marginally depending on variations in atmospheric pressure.
You do know how a barometer works, right?
Do you?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #191 on: August 06, 2016, 09:38:12 AM »
Your sentence doesn't really make sense as it's written. 

If they are being "crushed" (increased pressure) at the bottom, then something has to be pulling/pushing them down, otherwise atmospheric pressure would be equal from the surface to the dome.
The push comes directly from the molecules in the stack, under each other, in resistance to the one above.

Imagine a group of performers making a human pyramid. They start off as, say, 10 - and then they move in to stack 9 on top of the 10, the 8 on top of the 9 and so on and so on until you get one person stood at the top.

Tell me which person is under the least pressure and tell me who is under the most.
By discussing this we can sort out exactly how this Earth atmospheric system works. Anyone can join in and grasp it but I warn you. Failure to even attempt to grasp it and you'll be overlooked, because I'm not going to waste my time on people who simply do not wish to at least seriously look into it.
I still can't tell you until I know if there is something pulling them toward the bottom of the stack.  Is there?

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #192 on: August 06, 2016, 01:51:27 PM »
Your sentence doesn't really make sense as it's written. 

If they are being "crushed" (increased pressure) at the bottom, then something has to be pulling/pushing them down, otherwise atmospheric pressure would be equal from the surface to the dome.
The push comes directly from the molecules in the stack, under each other, in resistance to the one above.

Imagine a group of performers making a human pyramid. They start off as, say, 10 - and then they move in to stack 9 on top of the 10, the 8 on top of the 9 and so on and so on until you get one person stood at the top.

Tell me which person is under the least pressure and tell me who is under the most.
By discussing this we can sort out exactly how this Earth atmospheric system works. Anyone can join in and grasp it but I warn you. Failure to even attempt to grasp it and you'll be overlooked, because I'm not going to waste my time on people who simply do not wish to at least seriously look into it.
I still can't tell you until I know if there is something pulling them toward the bottom of the stack.  Is there?
No there isn't.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #193 on: August 06, 2016, 01:58:22 PM »
Your sentence doesn't really make sense as it's written. 

If they are being "crushed" (increased pressure) at the bottom, then something has to be pulling/pushing them down, otherwise atmospheric pressure would be equal from the surface to the dome.
The push comes directly from the molecules in the stack, under each other, in resistance to the one above.

Imagine a group of performers making a human pyramid. They start off as, say, 10 - and then they move in to stack 9 on top of the 10, the 8 on top of the 9 and so on and so on until you get one person stood at the top.

Tell me which person is under the least pressure and tell me who is under the most.
By discussing this we can sort out exactly how this Earth atmospheric system works. Anyone can join in and grasp it but I warn you. Failure to even attempt to grasp it and you'll be overlooked, because I'm not going to waste my time on people who simply do not wish to at least seriously look into it.
I still can't tell you until I know if there is something pulling them toward the bottom of the stack.  Is there?
No there isn't.
What's your definition of the word stack in this discussion?

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #194 on: August 06, 2016, 02:48:35 PM »
Your sentence doesn't really make sense as it's written. 

If they are being "crushed" (increased pressure) at the bottom, then something has to be pulling/pushing them down, otherwise atmospheric pressure would be equal from the surface to the dome.
The push comes directly from the molecules in the stack, under each other, in resistance to the one above.

Imagine a group of performers making a human pyramid. They start off as, say, 10 - and then they move in to stack 9 on top of the 10, the 8 on top of the 9 and so on and so on until you get one person stood at the top.

Tell me which person is under the least pressure and tell me who is under the most.
By discussing this we can sort out exactly how this Earth atmospheric system works. Anyone can join in and grasp it but I warn you. Failure to even attempt to grasp it and you'll be overlooked, because I'm not going to waste my time on people who simply do not wish to at least seriously look into it.
I still can't tell you until I know if there is something pulling them toward the bottom of the stack.  Is there?
No there isn't.
Then how is there a pressure difference between the bottom and the top?  What keeps it from equalizing?

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #195 on: August 06, 2016, 06:32:40 PM »
Not correct. It's still under equilibrium.

Could you explain?
If you allow atmospheric pressure to expand and exit out of a chamber, it will still leave an equal (all around inside) but less pressure inside of that chamber. So therefore anything inside it is simply still a dense object sitting inside under that pressure.

I would like some clarification on this as well. It seems like a pretty simple thing to test.

Get a vacuum chamber.

Put a kitchen scale in it.

Put a weight on the scale.

Evacuate the air and then observe.
And I did.



So, the weight actually changed? Wow.
 ;D
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 06:54:23 PM by Humble_Scientist »
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #196 on: August 07, 2016, 07:11:19 AM »
Your sentence doesn't really make sense as it's written. 

If they are being "crushed" (increased pressure) at the bottom, then something has to be pulling/pushing them down, otherwise atmospheric pressure would be equal from the surface to the dome.
The push comes directly from the molecules in the stack, under each other, in resistance to the one above.

Imagine a group of performers making a human pyramid. They start off as, say, 10 - and then they move in to stack 9 on top of the 10, the 8 on top of the 9 and so on and so on until you get one person stood at the top.

Tell me which person is under the least pressure and tell me who is under the most.
By discussing this we can sort out exactly how this Earth atmospheric system works. Anyone can join in and grasp it but I warn you. Failure to even attempt to grasp it and you'll be overlooked, because I'm not going to waste my time on people who simply do not wish to at least seriously look into it.
I still can't tell you until I know if there is something pulling them toward the bottom of the stack.  Is there?
No there isn't.
Then how is there a pressure difference between the bottom and the top?  What keeps it from equalizing?
10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2 and 1 molecule/s sitting in a stack - which one's sit at the bottom and which ones sit at the top.
When you answer, tell me why you came to arrive at the answer.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #197 on: August 07, 2016, 07:53:09 AM »
10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2 and 1 molecule/s sitting in a stack - which one's sit at the bottom and which ones sit at the top.
When you answer, tell me why you came to arrive at the answer.
Either 1 or 10 could be at the ground, and the other at the top of the stack.  Let's say '1' is the bottom and '10' is the top.  If there is nothing pulling 10 down against 9, and 9 toward 8, and so on, then why is 1 under more pressure than 10?

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #198 on: August 07, 2016, 08:03:53 AM »
10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2 and 1 molecule/s sitting in a stack - which one's sit at the bottom and which ones sit at the top.
When you answer, tell me why you came to arrive at the answer.
Either 1 or 10 could be at the ground, and the other at the top of the stack.  Let's say '1' is the bottom and '10' is the top.  If there is nothing pulling 10 down against 9, and 9 toward 8, and so on, then why is 1 under more pressure than 10?
Ok, so your logic tells you that 1 is at the ground and ten is at the top.
I don't think there's any further need for discussion.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #199 on: August 07, 2016, 08:29:04 AM »
10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2 and 1 molecule/s sitting in a stack - which one's sit at the bottom and which ones sit at the top.
When you answer, tell me why you came to arrive at the answer.
Either 1 or 10 could be at the ground, and the other at the top of the stack.  Let's say '1' is the bottom and '10' is the top.  If there is nothing pulling 10 down against 9, and 9 toward 8, and so on, then why is 1 under more pressure than 10?
Ok, so your logic tells you that 1 is at the ground and ten is at the top.
I don't think there's any further need for discussion.
And if I swap the labeling and say 10 is at the ground and 1 is at the top?  What is pulling 1 down against 2 and so forth.

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #200 on: August 07, 2016, 08:35:00 AM »
10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2 and 1 molecule/s sitting in a stack - which one's sit at the bottom and which ones sit at the top.
When you answer, tell me why you came to arrive at the answer.
Either 1 or 10 could be at the ground, and the other at the top of the stack.  Let's say '1' is the bottom and '10' is the top.  If there is nothing pulling 10 down against 9, and 9 toward 8, and so on, then why is 1 under more pressure than 10?
Ok, so your logic tells you that 1 is at the ground and ten is at the top.
I don't think there's any further need for discussion.
And if I swap the labeling and say 10 is at the ground and 1 is at the top?  What is pulling 1 down against 2 and so forth.
No such thing as pulling. It does not exist as a reality. It's just a word to describe what we think is a pull.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #201 on: August 07, 2016, 08:38:08 AM »
10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2 and 1 molecule/s sitting in a stack - which one's sit at the bottom and which ones sit at the top.
When you answer, tell me why you came to arrive at the answer.
Either 1 or 10 could be at the ground, and the other at the top of the stack.  Let's say '1' is the bottom and '10' is the top.  If there is nothing pulling 10 down against 9, and 9 toward 8, and so on, then why is 1 under more pressure than 10?
Ok, so your logic tells you that 1 is at the ground and ten is at the top.
I don't think there's any further need for discussion.
And if I swap the labeling and say 10 is at the ground and 1 is at the top?  What is pulling 1 down against 2 and so forth.
No such thing as pulling. It does not exist as a reality. It's just a word to describe what we think is a pull.
Ok, so what is pushing 1 down against 2 and so forth, in order to create a difference in pressure between the bottom and the top?

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #202 on: August 07, 2016, 08:42:01 AM »
10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2 and 1 molecule/s sitting in a stack - which one's sit at the bottom and which ones sit at the top.
When you answer, tell me why you came to arrive at the answer.
Either 1 or 10 could be at the ground, and the other at the top of the stack.  Let's say '1' is the bottom and '10' is the top.  If there is nothing pulling 10 down against 9, and 9 toward 8, and so on, then why is 1 under more pressure than 10?
Ok, so your logic tells you that 1 is at the ground and ten is at the top.
I don't think there's any further need for discussion.
And if I swap the labeling and say 10 is at the ground and 1 is at the top?  What is pulling 1 down against 2 and so forth.
No such thing as pulling. It does not exist as a reality. It's just a word to describe what we think is a pull.
Ok, so what is pushing 1 down against 2 and so forth, in order to create a difference in pressure between the bottom and the top?
I've just told you. You have to use your logical mind to understand it.

Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #203 on: August 07, 2016, 09:08:23 AM »
I've just told you. You have to use your logical mind to understand it.
All you have said is that they're stacked.  In order to have higher pressure at one end than the other, something must be pushing all the molecules in the stack toward one end. 

Without that push, the pressure would simply equalize from one end to the other. 

What is pushing them?

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #204 on: August 07, 2016, 09:29:39 AM »
I've just told you. You have to use your logical mind to understand it.
All you have said is that they're stacked.  In order to have higher pressure at one end than the other, something must be pushing all the molecules in the stack toward one end. 

Without that push, the pressure would simply equalize from one end to the other. 

What is pushing them?
Have you ever been in a queue?
Obviously you have, so I'm going to ask you some questions. Answer them honestly.

Question 1: You are in a queue of 200 people. You are near to the front. Everyone is pushing. What pressure do you feel against your back?
A. None.
B. Mild.
c. Heavy.

Question 2: You are very close to the back of the queue of 200 people. Everyone is pushing. What pressure do you feel against your back?

A. None.
B. Mild.
C. Heavy.


Question 3: You are at the very back of the queue of 200 people. Everyone is pushing. What pressure do you feel against your back?

A. None.
B. Mild.
C. Heavy.


Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #205 on: August 07, 2016, 09:50:28 AM »
C
B
A

Now, why are they pushing?

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sceptimatic

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #206 on: August 07, 2016, 10:05:15 AM »
C
B
A

Now, why are they pushing?
Because they are stacked and in RESISTANCE to each other.


Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #207 on: August 07, 2016, 10:30:24 AM »
Now, why are they pushing?
Because they are stacked and in RESISTANCE to each other.
Let's look again at what you stated earlier...

what is pushing the topmost layer of air molecules down on the molecules below?
Basically, nothing.
Imagine you are the last molecule and you're laid on your bed face down. Your body density is being resisted by the mattress and then the bed frame and then the floor and then the joists. Your back and everything facing up has no force upon it so it has nothing to push against. It becomes dormant. It freezes against a true vacuum (possibly) but your front is still resting on the mattress molecule which in turn is resting on the bed molecule which is resting on the floor molecule, etc, etc, etc.
Your back

If I line up 10 small blocks, all touching, which end is under the greatest pressure if all are at rest and not pushing or being pushed one way or the other? If one end is not pushing at the next one in line, then that next one is not pushing against the one beyond it.

The pressure will equalize if nothing is pushing each individual molecule all in one direction. 

You said nothing is pushing the molecules, so why is there higher pressure at one end than the other?


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Bullwinkle

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #208 on: August 07, 2016, 01:11:44 PM »
C
B
A

Now, why are they pushing?


They're in line for free food.

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Woody

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Re: iWitness - Air Pressure and Weight
« Reply #209 on: August 07, 2016, 02:58:26 PM »
I've just told you. You have to use your logical mind to understand it.
All you have said is that they're stacked.  In order to have higher pressure at one end than the other, something must be pushing all the molecules in the stack toward one end. 

Without that push, the pressure would simply equalize from one end to the other. 

What is pushing them?
Have you ever been in a queue?
Obviously you have, so I'm going to ask you some questions. Answer them honestly.

Question 1: You are in a queue of 200 people. You are near to the front. Everyone is pushing. What pressure do you feel against your back?
A. None.
B. Mild.
c. Heavy.

Question 2: You are very close to the back of the queue of 200 people. Everyone is pushing. What pressure do you feel against your back?

A. None.
B. Mild.
C. Heavy.


Question 3: You are at the very back of the queue of 200 people. Everyone is pushing. What pressure do you feel against your back?

A. None.
B. Mild.
C. Heavy.



So you saying air is moving under its own power downward?

I have stood in many lines.

I can be in front of a line and push the person behind me.

Which brings us to the question:

What is causing the downward force?  Something has to be pushing or pulling things down. 

Lets just look at one molecule at the very top.  What causes the downward force is stacking according to your model.  What is pushing that top molecule down on the one below it?