Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.

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Crouton

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2016, 01:50:24 PM »
Another interesting challenge that colonizing the moon would have that Mars doesn't is the nature of lunar dust.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_health_effects_from_lunar_dust_exposure

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Denspressure

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2016, 01:54:45 PM »
Mars also has a thicker atmosphere than the Moon, providing more shielding against radiation.
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Ski

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2016, 02:21:12 PM »
There's allegedly water on the moon, too. And hundreds of people of pooping provide plenty of fertilizer. Mars atmosphere would protect from little or no radiation.  They don't even think it has a magnetic field. It sounds like you guys are full of good reasons why going to the moon is impossible... ::)
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Crouton

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2016, 02:22:33 PM »
If it were up to me I'd pick the moon to colonize first.  It would be cool to look up and see the lights of a city on the moon.

Of course I'm sure the flat earthers would still swear up and down that space travel is impossible.
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Crouton

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2016, 02:23:08 PM »
There's allegedly water on the moon, too. And hundreds of people of pooping provide plenty of fertilizer. Mars atmosphere would protect from little or no radiation.  They don't even think it has a magnetic field. It sounds like you guys are full of good reasons why going to the moon is impossible... ::)

Difficult, yes.  Impossible is a strong word.
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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2016, 03:29:53 PM »
There's allegedly water on the moon, too. And hundreds of people of pooping provide plenty of fertilizer. Mars atmosphere would protect from little or no radiation.  They don't even think it has a magnetic field. It sounds like you guys are full of good reasons why going to the moon is impossible... ::)
Poop and water isn't all you need to grow crops. You also need nitrogen. Mars doesn't have much, but the moon has absolutely none. Farming on the moon would be incredibly difficult.
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Denspressure

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2016, 03:38:40 PM »
Do we know the chemical makeup of water on Mars and the Moon? H2O itself doesn't do much good if it doesn't have the minerals and organic material plants need to grow.

There could be many toxins in the water for all we know, then they'd also need a filtration system.

Same goes for trying to use it as drinking water of course.
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Though, isn't growing crops part of the latter development of a colony? aside from a small science experiment of course. Thats why the Moon can be useful in the first steps, less costly to send resources. The Apollo sites also offer a lot of information on how man-made stuff decays on other planets. If they were to go near one, a lot of tests can be done.

Materials
One of the primary objectives in looking at the artifacts is to gauge the effect of the
lunar environment on different materials. Conditions on the lunar surface vary in temperature
from  +250°  F  to  -300°  F  and  include  exposure  to  ultraviolet  and  other  forms  of  radiation,  so
material  surfaces  after  40  years  of  exposure  to  this  environment  could  be  discolored,  faded,
dulled, flaked, rumpled, pitted, mud-cracked, scratched, and/or covered with dust.

The  LRV  in  particular  should  be  considered  a  priority  because  it  contains  a  wide  variety  of  different
materials

There was also biological material left on the Moon, this is an other point of intrest.


Structural/mechanical
 The  temperature  extremes may  have  caused  some  artifacts  to  exhibit
thermal  effects,  and  the  500-plus  day-night  thermal  cycles  may  have  caused  thermal  fatigue
damage or deformation due to dissimilar metals being in contact with each other.  In addition,
micrometeoroid impacts may have produced craters whose number, size, and appearance may
be  useful  in  updating  current models.  Radially  symmetric  objects  with  several  impacts may  be
able to give some rough directional information as well.

Thermal
Most  of  the  Apollo  hardware  received  some  form  of  thermal  protection.    This
included multilayer insulation (MLI), radiators/reflectors, and/or thermal paint.  There is interest
is seeing how these different systems may have degraded.

Dust
Much  has  been  documented  on  the  characteristics  of  lunar  dust  and  the  deleterious
effect  it  has  on  equipment.    There  is  also  interest  in  dust  transportation  and  d eposition  from
human  activities  and  natural  processes.    Flat  surfaces  (especially  horizontal)  and  artifacts  that
appear pristine in Apollo photographs would be optimum targets to look for dust deposition.

Blast Effects
Observations of how blast effects from nearby rocket engines vary as a function of
distance may be possible by looking at some affected artifacts.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 04:02:21 PM by Denspressure »
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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2016, 03:49:35 PM »

The Falcon Heavy will fly soon (hopefully) and it will have 27 engines. So it will be a good indicator of whether or not SpaceX can pull off the many engines thing.
Not necessarily.  Falcon Heavy is basically just 3 Falcon 9 cores strapped together, so the plumbing per core isn't any worse than what they're dealing with right now (give or take the crossfeed plumbing).  When you talk about almost 5X more engines in a single core, then it's a totally different story.
Are you disagreeing with The Man? Go to 34:25
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 03:51:11 PM by FlatOrange »
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Ski

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2016, 04:09:26 PM »
How dare markjo question a prophet?!
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markjo

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2016, 04:45:06 PM »
It sounds like you guys are full of good reasons why going to the moon is impossible... ::)
Going to another celestial body for a short visit is one thing, colonizing that celestial body is quite another.
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boydster

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2016, 12:29:52 PM »
There's allegedly water on the moon, too. And hundreds of people of pooping provide plenty of fertilizer. Mars atmosphere would protect from little or no radiation.  They don't even think it has a magnetic field. It sounds like you guys are full of good reasons why going to the moon is impossible... ::)
Poop and water isn't all you need to grow crops. You also need nitrogen. Mars doesn't have much, but the moon has absolutely none. Farming on the moon would be incredibly difficult.

I saw a documentary about a dude that pulled it off. He grew potatoes. Everything was fine until his plastic barrier blew out and his crops flash-froze.  ;D

In all seriousness though, I praise Elon Musk for having the vision and putting his money where his mouth is. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and Earth isn't going to be habitable forever. At some point, we gotta get off this marble or accept that quite literally all known life is going to be extinguished. Either by the sun baking and then swallowing the Earth, or asteroid impact, or pissing match between the shirtless Russian horseman and the bloated orange tic tac, or whatever other catastrophes (avoidable or otherwise) come to pass. Homo Sapiens have an undefined but very much finite window of time to either become an interplanetary species or be wiped out.

As a side note, look at what this dude has done! He made actual electric cars that go normal distances at normal (and even really fast) speeds that you don't need to be a multi-millionaire famous person to be able to afford. AND THEY HAVE FREAKING AUTOPILOT! Yes, there have been some setbacks, but that's expected when you are pushing boundaries. Also... he built a real-life rocket and sent it to SPACE!!! And then he did it over and over again. THEN HE LANDED THE FREAKING PRIMARY STAGE and repeated that a couple times. Now he's working on making the hyperloop a reality and wants to help get us onto another planet. A NOTHER EFFING PLANET, you guys. He's trying to make it so we basically all live like the friggin Jetsons and it happens in the span of a generation.

Maybe the Mars colony idea won't work at first. But for anyone implying it's going to be hard, so why bother: STFU. Space is fake, so why bother: Again, STFU and join the real world for long enough to at least take ownership of the future of our species. NASA has been lying since 2000BC or whatever: EVEN MORE OF A REASON to jump on the Mars train - you can be among the first to start the newest FES subsidiary, the Flat Mars Society. Don't tear down Musk or the concept of becoming a two-planet species just because all you can see are obstacles, though. Everyone should be behind this, and if you think Earth is flat and space is a hoax then you should be on board all the more so, because eventually it's stuff like this that will bring down the roundie house of cards and bring you vindication (or not, but if it's all a delusion surely you want to find that out eventually, right? RIGHT? Right.).

If you never fail at anything, you aren't pushing yourself hard enough. Musk has suffered some failures. Just like pioneers from literally the entire history of man kind. But look at the upside.

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disputeone

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2016, 07:43:18 PM »
If you never fail at anything, you aren't pushing yourself hard enough.

That's a fantastic sentiment Boydster, well said.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns. 

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Ski

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2016, 09:17:56 PM »
Quote
I saw a documentary about a dude that pulled it off. He grew potatoes. Everything was fine until his plastic barrier blew out and his crops flash-froze

The biography was more interesting than the documentary.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2016, 07:45:46 AM »
In all seriousness though, I praise Elon Musk for having the vision and putting his money where his mouth is.
He's not put any money into it - the next stage will be some kind of crowd funding.  Who knows how much money might have lost with his current ventures?  And the shit he's proposing could run into hundreds of billions to be realistic.

Quote
Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and Earth isn't going to be habitable forever. At some point, we gotta get off this marble or accept that quite literally all known life is going to be extinguished.
Yeah, but why should I give a shit about something that far in the future?

Anyway, if we ever have the technology to create a completely independent colony on Mars, then we we will probably have the technology to solve whatever problems we have here.  Like runaway global warming, or mutant sea bass with fricken laser beams.

Quote
He made actual electric cars that go normal distances at normal (and even really fast) speeds that you don't need to be a multi-millionaire famous person to be able to afford.
So, where is that Model 3?


Musk can do whatever he likes with his own money, but he's dangerously close to jumping the shark these days.
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markjo

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2016, 11:07:29 AM »
Quote
He made actual electric cars that go normal distances at normal (and even really fast) speeds that you don't need to be a multi-millionaire famous person to be able to afford.
So, where is that Model 3?
I don't think that it's a secret that production is planned for the end of 2017.  However, in the mean time Tesla has sold over 130,000 Model S and Model X vehicles.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2016, 12:34:30 PM »
Rich Globalist Loser:  "I am so excited!  I get to fly into outer space!!!
Evil SpaceShip Shyster:  "Just sign this waiver and soon you will be on your way.

Rich Globalist Loser:  "What does "firmament" mean?
Evil SpaceShip Shyster:  "Oh, that is just some crazy idea flat earthers believe.  We have to include it due to anti-discrimination law.  We do not want to hurt anybody's feelings.

Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2016, 01:00:05 PM »
Rich Globalist Loser:  "I am so excited!  I get to fly into outer space!!!
Evil SpaceShip Shyster:  "Just sign this waiver and soon you will be on your way.

Rich Globalist Loser:  "What does "firmament" mean?
Evil SpaceShip Shyster:  "Oh, that is just some crazy idea flat earthers believe.  We have to include it due to anti-discrimination law.  We do not want to hurt anybody's feelings."
Btw what exactly does firmament mean?

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sokarul

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2016, 01:04:37 PM »
It's a word that people who are affraid of science and who let religion bend them over, use.
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Denspressure

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2016, 01:36:18 PM »
In all seriousness though, I praise Elon Musk for having the vision and putting his money where his mouth is.
He's not put any money into it - the next stage will be some kind of crowd funding.  Who knows how much money might have lost with his current ventures?  And the shit he's proposing could run into hundreds of billions to be realistic.

Quote
Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and Earth isn't going to be habitable forever. At some point, we gotta get off this marble or accept that quite literally all known life is going to be extinguished.
Yeah, but why should I give a shit about something that far in the future?

Anyway, if we ever have the technology to create a completely independent colony on Mars, then we we will probably have the technology to solve whatever problems we have here.  Like runaway global warming, or mutant sea bass with fricken laser beams.

Quote
He made actual electric cars that go normal distances at normal (and even really fast) speeds that you don't need to be a multi-millionaire famous person to be able to afford.
So, where is that Model 3?


Musk can do whatever he likes with his own money, but he's dangerously close to jumping the shark these days.

what do we really save when we don’t explore? At the peak of Apollo, NASA’s budget was nearly 5% of federal spending. Now it is about 0.5%. In proportional terms, it has shrunk by 90%; it’s nearly been zeroed out. What did we get in return? People used to say, how can you put a man on the moon when there are still problems here on Earth? Well, we stopped putting people on the moon and shut down almost all of the space program.

Did we fix the problems? Are we now flush with cash? Or did we discover that when you stop spending money on inspirational things, mostly you end up spending on wasteful things instead?

And technologies that are developed for a sustainable colony on Mars can also be used on Earth, like deserts.
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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2016, 01:51:43 PM »
Rich Globalist Loser:  "I am so excited!  I get to fly into outer space!!!"   
Evil SpaceShip Shyster:  "Just sign this waiver and soon you will be on your way.

Rich Globalist Loser:  "What does "firmament" mean?
Evil SpaceShip Shyster:  "Oh, that is just some crazy idea flat earthers believe.  We have to include it due to anti-discrimination law.  We do not want to hurt anybody's feelings."
Btw what exactly does firmament mean?
Firmament literally translates to "sky".

If you think that is ambiguous, that's because it is.
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boydster

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2016, 03:38:24 PM »
In all seriousness though, I praise Elon Musk for having the vision and putting his money where his mouth is.
He's not put any money into it - the next stage will be some kind of crowd funding.  Who knows how much money might have lost with his current ventures?  And the shit he's proposing could run into hundreds of billions to be realistic.

Quote
Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and Earth isn't going to be habitable forever. At some point, we gotta get off this marble or accept that quite literally all known life is going to be extinguished.
Yeah, but why should I give a shit about something that far in the future?

Anyway, if we ever have the technology to create a completely independent colony on Mars, then we we will probably have the technology to solve whatever problems we have here.  Like runaway global warming, or mutant sea bass with fricken laser beams.

Quote
He made actual electric cars that go normal distances at normal (and even really fast) speeds that you don't need to be a multi-millionaire famous person to be able to afford.
So, where is that Model 3?


Musk can do whatever he likes with his own money, but he's dangerously close to jumping the shark these days.

He is running the company that is pushing the envelope. How he raises the money, whether it's literally from his bank account or by crowd funding, is unrelated to the fact that he's taking action to see his vision turn into reality. That's what I meant by "he's putting his money where his mouth is."

And why should you care about something that far in the future? I'm at a loss for words at how selfish of a statement that is. But regardless, it is irresponsible for our species to NOT hedge against extinction. Reducing exposure to potential threats is just good practice in general. Also "that far in the future" could be in our lifetime just as easily as it could be in a few billion years. Asteroids come close to the Earth without being seen until a day or two before they make their flyby more frequently than I care to think about. At that point, it's too late to react.

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hoppy

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2016, 04:31:06 PM »
Mars also has a thicker atmosphere than the Moon, providing more shielding against radiation.
the weather patterns on the moon and...
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Ski

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2016, 04:46:38 PM »
Firmament literally translates to "sky".

If you think that is ambiguous, that's because it is.

Not true. The verse you offered earlier, for example, has both the word "firmament"  (רְקִ֥יעַ) and "the heavens" (הַשָּׁמָֽיִם). Why do you keep saying this?
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2016, 05:02:42 PM »
The heavens can mean either the sky, the celesial objects, or the place where believers go.
I wonder how obnoxious I can make my signature?
Please give me ideas.

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Ski

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2016, 05:46:43 PM »
Okay, even if one cedes that "the heavens" can be translated as such (and I'm not sure one should), the "firmament of the heavens" is not "the heavens" anymore than "birds of the heavens" are "the heavens". The firmament and the heavens are separate words and ideas in Hebrew. Continuing to say "the firmament" is "the heavens" is not in anyway supported by exegesis even if it remains your belief.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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sokarul

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Re: Space X's plan to get a colony on mars.
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2016, 06:55:02 PM »
Does it really matter? The Bible and other religious texts were written by man with the current knowledge at the time. Nothing more.
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