Questions for sceptimatic

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2016, 03:15:49 PM »
Yet you say that we are able to extend our arm. How is are arm moving if nothing can accelerate?
Because it's part of your body.

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2016, 03:21:03 PM »
So is the ball being pushed by our hand moving?
I wonder how obnoxious I can make my signature?
Please give me ideas.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2016, 03:28:29 PM »
So is the ball being pushed by our hand moving?
Just decide what you think. I'm finished.

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2016, 03:30:29 PM »
So is the ball being pushed by our hand moving?
Just decide what you think. I'm finished.

I am trying to find out what you think about physics. I already know what I think. You asked me to make this thread.
I wonder how obnoxious I can make my signature?
Please give me ideas.

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2016, 03:33:35 PM »
So is the ball being pushed by our hand moving?
Just decide what you think. I'm finished.

Well what we all think is that your theory has major holes in it provided by a simple baseball. It makes no logical sense that if we can accelerate an object, like our arm, that we can not apply that acceleration to an outside object.

If the ball was floating in front of my face and I swung my hand and slapped it, would my hand break because the ball can not move?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2016, 03:42:24 PM »
So is the ball being pushed by our hand moving?
Just decide what you think. I'm finished.

I am trying to find out what you think about physics. I already know what I think. You asked me to make this thread.
Yeah I know. I'm out of here. You'll have to carry your stuff on with those who are willing.
I'm giving up in arguing about this stuff. I'm getting back to my football.
See you and no hard feelings.  ;)

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sokarul

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2016, 04:04:59 PM »
What propels a football once it's left a foot? Inertia? 100 mph wind?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2016, 05:43:00 PM »
FINALLY! YOU RESPONDED!

I take this to be the heart of you arguments:


You cannot have SCATTERED particles just floating about with free space in between. It's not how reality works. It's fantasy and should be seen as such.


Why? How did you determine that? Remember, skepticism is NOT rejecting everything the mainstream says. It's questioning everything and determining why and if something is the way someone tells you it is. So again I ask you: why, and how did you determine this?
Common sense and doing experiments with chambers for pressure evacuation.
Basically sweeping aside the bullshit to uncover the reality.
why does a 10cm cubed block of aluminium fall at the same rate as a same size block of lead?
It doesn't.
Details please to prove.

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2016, 06:16:21 PM »
Well, he asked me to make this thread, then I guess his broken theory just couldn't hold up. I'll update the OP.
I wonder how obnoxious I can make my signature?
Please give me ideas.

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rabinoz

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2016, 07:00:36 PM »
Scepti, you claim that as long as there is no atmosphere, you can't push anything, you can't get "leverage", as you say. Why? What's so special about the atmosphere?
Hopefully you'll pay attention.

What is special about the atmosphere as opposed to the fictional vacuum of space is, the atmosphere is made up of matter with no free space between each molecule of it, or whatever you want to call each piece of it.

These molecules are extremely densely packed or are expanded, depending on where in the stack these molecules are.
Regardless of whether they are densely packed or expanded, they NEVER separate to give off any free space between them.

This is why we can move within them because we are them. We are not free of them either. We compress and expand in them as they do within themselves.

In your fictional space vacuum there is no molecule medium for anything to happen. It's what would be described as a place where suspended animation  would occur, kind of thing.
You cannot have SCATTERED particles just floating about with free space in between. It's not how reality works. It's fantasy and should be seen as such.

This is why things cannot be placed into a vacuum. No rockets or humans or anything, because it does not exist.

Low pressure at elevation is a reality. It's EXPANDED matter/molecules that expand to take up more space per molecule than below.
It's because it's stacked from the bottom up and each time the atmosphere stacks up, it becomes a little bit more dense below.

You are alive because your body is reliant on being squeezed. Your molecules are kept together because your body is under pressure. You are dense (no offence) and you create a dense resistance against a stacked atmosphere  that is upon your body frame.

The air you breathe is all attached. You don't breathe in random particles. You breathe in molecules that are all stuck together. You never break them, you just change the make up by expansion or contraction due to vibration/friction as your energy of your body resonates to a frequency.

Look at my avatar. Look at the layers. Imagine that gobstopper/jaw breaker being  one molecule of dense matter.
That gobstopper is solid but it can be peeled apart by taking off a skin at a time. To do this you have to vibrate it at frequencies than enable certain parts of it to release.

Let's say we simply peel off the top skin. That top skin will go from expanded taking its place on another gobstopper that has less layers or be jammed between those that have similar layers...but it will always be attached to one or the other.
Once that layer is taken off it creates a surge. It creates a pressure difference. A push into other molecules.


This is the basics of basics and even saying that, it requires serious thought. Anyone that decides to go into frenzy mode. Forget it, seriously.

The genuine people, come in and try and understand what I'm saying, because if you do, you will understand why the global Earth and space is complete and utter brainwashing..as well as much of mainstream indoctrinated so called science theories.
You simply "say" all these things as though you expect everyone else to accept that what Sceppy says must be fact.
It does not work that way.
I am afraid real scientists have been questioned and ridiculed for thousands of years. Some of their ideas were retained, many more were discarded.
If you ever  hope for your ideas to be accepted, then you must accept questioning and criticism from all sides and not run off in a huff!

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2016, 07:30:33 PM »
Scepti, you claim that as long as there is no atmosphere, you can't push anything, you can't get "leverage", as you say. Why? What's so special about the atmosphere?
Hopefully you'll pay attention.

What is special about the atmosphere as opposed to the fictional vacuum of space is, the atmosphere is made up of matter with no free space between each molecule of it, or whatever you want to call each piece of it.

These molecules are extremely densely packed or are expanded, depending on where in the stack these molecules are.
Regardless of whether they are densely packed or expanded, they NEVER separate to give off any free space between them.

This is why we can move within them because we are them. We are not free of them either. We compress and expand in them as they do within themselves.

In your fictional space vacuum there is no molecule medium for anything to happen. It's what would be described as a place where suspended animation  would occur, kind of thing.
You cannot have SCATTERED particles just floating about with free space in between. It's not how reality works. It's fantasy and should be seen as such.

This is why things cannot be placed into a vacuum. No rockets or humans or anything, because it does not exist.

Low pressure at elevation is a reality. It's EXPANDED matter/molecules that expand to take up more space per molecule than below.
It's because it's stacked from the bottom up and each time the atmosphere stacks up, it becomes a little bit more dense below.

You are alive because your body is reliant on being squeezed. Your molecules are kept together because your body is under pressure. You are dense (no offence) and you create a dense resistance against a stacked atmosphere  that is upon your body frame.

The air you breathe is all attached. You don't breathe in random particles. You breathe in molecules that are all stuck together. You never break them, you just change the make up by expansion or contraction due to vibration/friction as your energy of your body resonates to a frequency.

Look at my avatar. Look at the layers. Imagine that gobstopper/jaw breaker being  one molecule of dense matter.
That gobstopper is solid but it can be peeled apart by taking off a skin at a time. To do this you have to vibrate it at frequencies than enable certain parts of it to release.

Let's say we simply peel off the top skin. That top skin will go from expanded taking its place on another gobstopper that has less layers or be jammed between those that have similar layers...but it will always be attached to one or the other.
Once that layer is taken off it creates a surge. It creates a pressure difference. A push into other molecules.


This is the basics of basics and even saying that, it requires serious thought. Anyone that decides to go into frenzy mode. Forget it, seriously.

The genuine people, come in and try and understand what I'm saying, because if you do, you will understand why the global Earth and space is complete and utter brainwashing..as well as much of mainstream indoctrinated so called science theories.


I have an experiment for you, a test, or a thought experiment, taking a pinball machine and place it in a vacuum chamber set up so I can be operated from outside the vacuum chamber.
Before evacuating pull the lever and let go, of course, this pinball machine operates normally.
We evacuate the chamber to 50% of its capabilities,
We pulled lever and let it go, do we see any change in the operation of the pinball machine?
The ball moving 50% faster?
The ball moving 50% slower?
No visible change?
We now evacuate the chamber to maximum capacity.
We pulled lever and let it go, do we see any change in the operation of the pinball machine?
According to what you said above the ball would not leave the channel or even move away from the plunger: not happening, with only the drag of the surface I can see the ball actually going faster, just slightly.
The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2016, 10:58:43 PM »
Sceptimatics standard response will be its not possible to make a vacuum and therefore there is still atmosphere to provide 'leverage'.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2016, 01:46:40 AM »
[...]
The genuine people, come in and try and understand what I'm saying, because if you do, you will understand why the global Earth and space is complete and utter brainwashing..as well as much of mainstream indoctrinated so called science theories.

I read your theory with interest. It has some coherence to it. I'll try to understand it.

Can you point me to one or two observations that I could make myself that are more readily explained by your theory than by mainstream science?
To observe anything you must first understand what it is that you would be observing and why it is so.
Show me that you grasp some of it and we will see how you can gain some kind of proof by experiment.

Okay, my understanding so far...

There are no vacuums or free spaces.
Less matter in a space means that the molecules are expanded so that fewer of them are needed to fill the space. They still occupy the whole space.
The atmosphere is stacked such that it is denser at the bottom than higher up.

The stuff about vibration and peeling layers off molecules is less clear to me.

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rabinoz

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2016, 02:01:40 AM »
So is the ball being pushed by our hand moving?
Just decide what you think. I'm finished.
  ??? ??? Sceptimatic  goes off in a huff when someone questions his ideas - again!  ??? ???

 ::) Boo hoo!  ::)

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Pezevenk

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2016, 02:04:12 AM »
FINALLY! YOU RESPONDED!

I take this to be the heart of you arguments:


You cannot have SCATTERED particles just floating about with free space in between. It's not how reality works. It's fantasy and should be seen as such.


Why? How did you determine that? Remember, skepticism is NOT rejecting everything the mainstream says. It's questioning everything and determining why and if something is the way someone tells you it is. So again I ask you: why, and how did you determine this?
Common sense and doing experiments with chambers for pressure evacuation.
Basically sweeping aside the bullshit to uncover the reality.

That's not even remotely common sense and I've seen no experiments by you. If you have any, post them.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2016, 02:27:14 AM »
We're all not worthy, DNO. Questioning scepti about his constantly spouted bullshit and repeated lies is sacrilege and can potentially lead to another Scepti MeltdownTM.

Anyway, apparently it's atmospheric pressure which replaces gravity in scepti's little world. For whatever reason though, this 'pressure' (created from what though? Is it a force that creates/causes itself?) pushes only in the downward direction because of 'molecule stacking'... or something? But, in an evacuated chamber (very, very low pressure), all objects fall at the same rate!? I thought atmospheric pressure pushes everything down? Scepti attempts to explain this by saying that there is less resistance on the objects when they're falling so they fall more freely?!!!?!?!? What?? I thought it was the pressure that was 'pushing' everything down in the first place? Now we have much, much less pressure and not only do things not float or fall slower, they fall faster?

I am confuse.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2016, 04:11:45 AM »

I have an experiment for you, a test, or a thought experiment, taking a pinball machine and place it in a vacuum chamber set up so I can be operated from outside the vacuum chamber.
Before evacuating pull the lever and let go, of course, this pinball machine operates normally.
We evacuate the chamber to 50% of its capabilities,
We pulled lever and let it go, do we see any change in the operation of the pinball machine?
The ball moving 50% faster?
The ball moving 50% slower?
No visible change?
We now evacuate the chamber to maximum capacity.
We pulled lever and let it go, do we see any change in the operation of the pinball machine?
According to what you said above the ball would not leave the channel or even move away from the plunger: not happening, with only the drag of the surface I can see the ball actually going faster, just slightly.
Let's make this simpler because it's SPACE that we're dealing with, with you people.

Put your pinball machine in space then try and pull the LEVER. The operative word is LEVER.
What happens?

When you pull back the lever you also pull back the pin ball machine. Effectively your lever cannot pull.

Now let's use the other scenario that you might come up with.
Imagine the person pulls the lever whilst holding the pin ball machine with their other hand in order to be able to pull back on that spring lever. Ok, let's have that.
What happens?

The lever gets pulled back  but the ball bearing stays put. It cannot roll down towards the lever as it's pulled back because there is no up or down in your space,  so no gradient to roll.

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2016, 04:33:41 AM »
No scepti. He specially stated a vacuum chamber not space. Therefore gravity applies.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2016, 04:34:58 AM »
Okay, my understanding so far...
There are no vacuums or free spaces.
Correct.
Less matter in a space means that the molecules are expanded so that fewer of them are needed to fill the space.
Correct.


They still occupy the whole space.
Correct and depending on how high up they do, they go dormant. Basically they freeze as an expansion. The opposite of freezing under dense conditions at the bottom.

The atmosphere is stacked such that it is denser at the bottom than higher up.
Yep. Think of a hole in a floor spewing up wet glue. As it builds up the outer glue molecules are under no force but their own. They sort of go dormant or freeze or basically show as a skin. (imagine this against a true vacuum outside of Earth.
As the glue builds up the outer skin stretches and stretches. Or deflates depending on the force pushed up.
Basically the cell is breathing - sort of. Expanding and contracting constantly in varying degrees of pressure. This is why we get tides.
The stuff about vibration and peeling layers off molecules is less clear to me.
It need a lot of explaining but is pointless until the pressure of atmosphere is grasped, fully.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2016, 04:41:53 AM »
So is the ball being pushed by our hand moving?
Just decide what you think. I'm finished.
  ??? ??? Sceptimatic  goes off in a huff when someone questions his ideas - again!  ??? ???

 ::) Boo hoo!  ::)
Not at all. I don't like it when a moderator jumps into a thread to have a pop at my thoughts when that moderator has only been using his ski name for 2 days out of the entire year.
This moderator then starts to dissect topics and takes the side of the masses.

The Engineer (funnily enough) was brought in to do exactly the same. Comes in to have a go and disrupt the conversations, then disappears.
Is it any wonder I don't trust the place.
How can a moderator keep his/her privilege when they turn up for 2 days out of a year...unless they're playing many different personas.

Paranoid? Maybe. I think I have every right to be.

Take ski out of the moderator equation and lets see how he/she deals with me and how I deal with him/her. A totally different scenario.

You see I rarely have any need to have a go at moderators and I certainly don't have a go at their theories. I gave them the respect on that and yet here we are with my thoughts just dished with a hope that I disappear along with Papa Legba.

You can't get very far with mods when they start to play about with topics by locking them or moving them, etc.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2016, 04:46:37 AM »


Well what we all think is that your theory has major holes in it provided by a simple baseball. It makes no logical sense that if we can accelerate an object, like our arm, that we can not apply that acceleration to an outside object.

You're not accelerating anything.

If the ball was floating in front of my face and I swung my hand and slapped it, would my hand break because the ball can not move?
You can't slap it away. The second your hand touches the ball the ball moves with your hand. It has no medium to accelerate into.
In your vacuum there is no matter. Your ball is in suspended animation, just like you are. Obviously assuming the fantasy of it all.

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AdamSK

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2016, 05:45:21 AM »
To observe anything you must first understand what it is that you would be observing and why it is so.

That's not true at all.  We can observe the sun, or objects falling, or any number of things whether or not we have any idea of why it is the way it is.

Refusing to make any observations you don't already understand is called confirmation bias.  It's a fallacy, not science.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2016, 05:49:17 AM »
No scepti. He specially stated a vacuum chamber not space. Therefore gravity applies.
You cannot make anything like a vacuum at sea level. You can get lower pressure and that's your lot, depending on your pumps ability to restrict pressure from gaining entry back into the chamber as it's being allowed to expand out of it.


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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2016, 05:57:49 AM »
To observe anything you must first understand what it is that you would be observing and why it is so.

That's not true at all.  We can observe the sun, or objects falling, or any number of things whether or not we have any idea of why it is the way it is.

Refusing to make any observations you don't already understand is called confirmation bias.  It's a fallacy, not science.
I think you've just took what I've said the wrong way but never mind.

Apparently you know all about the sun and how it works. That goes for gravity and warped space time, plus a whole host of stuff that is observed one minute then hypothesised another minute, to fully calculated .

Anyway, I'm just saying. No need to delve into that.
What I was saying is, before someone decides my views are resigned to the bin or that they want explanations for  more stuff after not grasping the first part, I'm basically telling them to observe the reality around them.


Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2016, 06:13:41 AM »
No scepti. He specially stated a vacuum chamber not space. Therefore gravity applies.
You cannot make anything like a vacuum at sea level. You can get lower pressure and that's your lot, depending on your pumps ability to restrict pressure from gaining entry back into the chamber as it's being allowed to expand out of it.

All you're arguing is semantics. Call it a vacuum chamber, evacuated chamber or a low-pressure chamber, it doesn't matter; what matters is the result. Let's say a very cheap evacuated chamber can achieve a 0.000001 Pa, why do two very different objects of varying densities and surface area fall at the exact same rate? Why do they fall at all? I thought air pressure = gravity? Here we have a very, very, very low pressure chamber, yet Newton's laws seem to hold true.

Please just answer the questions and stop arguing semantics about what a vacuum is. If you can't, we all understand.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2016, 06:24:35 AM »


All you're arguing is semantics. Call it a vacuum chamber, evacuated chamber or a low-pressure chamber, it doesn't matter; what matters is the result. Let's say a very cheap evacuated chamber can achieve a 0.000001 Pa, why do two very different objects of varying densities and surface area fall at the exact same rate?
They don't. They may fall at very similar (to the eye) rates but not exactly. As long as there's some resistance, no matter what amount, two different objects will fall at different times. the issue is in having something so accurate to prove this and there isn't anything that would be conclusive. It's down to common sense by using atmosphere to do the same test to see the objects fall at different rates.
A helicopter drop or skyscraper would suffice.

Why do they fall at all?
They fall because energy was used to put those objects into a place where their energy has now become potential energy, until released.


I thought air pressure = gravity?
It is. Gravity is just a ruse. Atmospheric pressure upon  any dense object pushed into it, is reality.

Here we have a very, very, very low pressure chamber, yet Newton's laws seem to hold true.
Newtons law of supposed gravity does not hold true at all.


Please just answer the questions and stop arguing semantics about what a vacuum is. If you can't, we all understand.
I have.

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AdamSK

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2016, 07:07:50 AM »
Why do they fall at all?
They fall because energy was used to put those objects into a place where their energy has now become potential energy, until released.
So if it takes energy to move something somewhere, then when released that thing will return to where it used to be?

If I take energy to roll a ball from one end of the desk to the other, why doesn't it roll back on its own?

Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2016, 07:25:47 AM »
If I understand correctly, air pushing down on us is causing gravity, then what is causing the air to push down on us? Why is it denser closer to earth? everything we know about gasses is that they evenly take up space.
I wonder how obnoxious I can make my signature?
Please give me ideas.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2016, 07:31:51 AM »
Why do they fall at all?
They fall because energy was used to put those objects into a place where their energy has now become potential energy, until released.
So if it takes energy to move something somewhere, then when released that thing will return to where it used to be?

If I take energy to roll a ball from one end of the desk to the other, why doesn't it roll back on its own?
On a level desk, if you roll a ball, then your ball is pushing atmosphere away from it's dense mass and also with each miniscule movement, it moves into another pressure after leaving behind a pressure.
Each time the ball moves, it is being friction clamped to the table and slowed down with each roll due to the friction eventually arresting the energy applied to it.
It eventually stops dead.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Questions for sceptimatic
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2016, 07:38:03 AM »
If I understand correctly, air pushing down on us is causing gravity, then what is causing the air to push down on us?
Us pushing into it, like everything else.

Why is it denser closer to earth?

I'm sorry but I have to answer a question with a question because I think it'll help you understand.

Why is it denser the further you go down in water? Answer this and you'll maybe understand.

everything we know about gasses is that they evenly take up space.
If they evenly took up space then nothing would move. There would be no heat from friction and no dormant matter like glaciers. You know, things like that because it all depends on matter not taking up even space.
The atmosphere around you is bobbing about like crazy, just molecules expanding and contracting due to energy and friction/vibration.
Your voice alone creates it's own uneven matter. It all does.