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For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity

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Cartesian

  • 1965
Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #90 on: September 07, 2013, 03:41:09 AM »
Quote from: bunvilla on September 07, 2013, 03:22:52 AM
What I dont understand is why it is cold or freezing in space, between the sun and earth? Let me explain my question better. If the Sun is in the center and we orbit around it, then I would think that everything thats in between the sun and earth would be warm. How can it be freezing in space with the sun heating up everything. If the rays of the sun heat up the earth  from that distance, then everything in between should be warm. But if the sun rotates directly over the earth in a manner like FE say then that would explain why its freezing in space.

Maybe it's out of topic but I will try to explain a bit. First you need to agree that unlike on Earth, in space there is no atmosphere so there is nothing that the sun can heat. If you go to space and expose your naked body to the sun (imagine that you don't need to breathe in space), your body will receive the same heat from the sun but around you it's very cold. You will feel very cold, a lot colder than getting naked on top Himalaya
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bunvilla

  • 12
Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #91 on: September 07, 2013, 04:27:23 AM »
Wait a minute, am I to understand this right. So there no atmosphere to heat up ~ But the heat is traveling thru space to get to the earth, so how is it that the space between the earth and sun is not hot? So how does the path the heat travels to get to earth stay cold and then all of a sudden get hot when it hits our atmosphere? And I would think that if we didnt need to breathe air and was out side of the earth atmosphere but in the path of the heat traveling to earth, we would get burned. Doesnt make any sense from my basic understanding. Heat is heat and it has a physical property and I do not understand how it looses its heat. So if we were to travel to the sun and get about a mile away from  it wouldnt burn up? Well I dont understand, I guess Im a simpleton. thanks for trying to explain   
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Cartesian

  • 1965
Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #92 on: September 07, 2013, 05:24:01 AM »
This is OOT. So create a thread for this if you want although you must put it in the context or FE or RE or FE vs RE. But in simple term, heat can transfer via conduction, convection or radiation. The latter doesn't require medium
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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
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Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #93 on: September 07, 2013, 10:22:26 AM »
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:19:47 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 06, 2013, 12:14:08 PM
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:12:46 PM
Irrelevant.  The atmosphere is not a closed system.  There is no fixed volume for the atmosphere to fill.

Do you disagree that molecules in the atmosphere at sea level would become less energetic the further they are from the sun?

That depends.  Are you suggesting that the sun's distance is the only factor that determines how energetic air molecules are?  Even in FET, the height if the atmosphere is only a small fraction of the distance to the sun.

I'll take your avoidance of the matter as a concession of defeat.
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Alex Tomasovich

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Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #94 on: September 07, 2013, 12:22:10 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 07, 2013, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:19:47 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 06, 2013, 12:14:08 PM
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:12:46 PM
Irrelevant.  The atmosphere is not a closed system.  There is no fixed volume for the atmosphere to fill.

Do you disagree that molecules in the atmosphere at sea level would become less energetic the further they are from the sun?

That depends.  Are you suggesting that the sun's distance is the only factor that determines how energetic air molecules are?  Even in FET, the height if the atmosphere is only a small fraction of the distance to the sun.

I'll take your avoidance of the matter as a concession of defeat.
"Is the heat of the air proportional to the distance from the sun?"

No, it's not. It's proportional to the angle at which the sun's light hits the air. That's why the seasonal temperature change in L.A. (45° F)  is so much less than the seasonal temperature change in Nome, Alaska (111° F). The variation in the the sun's distance is the same for both, but the angle of the sun for Nome varies a lot more.
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Cartesian

  • 1965
Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #95 on: September 07, 2013, 12:51:21 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 07, 2013, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:19:47 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 06, 2013, 12:14:08 PM
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:12:46 PM
Irrelevant.  The atmosphere is not a closed system.  There is no fixed volume for the atmosphere to fill.

Do you disagree that molecules in the atmosphere at sea level would become less energetic the further they are from the sun?

That depends.  Are you suggesting that the sun's distance is the only factor that determines how energetic air molecules are?  Even in FET, the height if the atmosphere is only a small fraction of the distance to the sun.

I'll take your avoidance of the matter as a concession of defeat.

I think markjo already answered your question when he said "that depends". I agree with him on this because, the weather or climate is function of more than just distance to the sun. He further asked you a question which you haven't replied.
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Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #96 on: September 07, 2013, 01:59:28 PM »
If walking away from an unanswered question is a concession in Tom's opinion then he has conceded substantial amounts to RET.
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Quote from: charles bloomington on April 25, 2015, 04:13:06 PM
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.
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Cartesian

  • 1965
Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #97 on: September 07, 2013, 02:00:28 PM »
Quote from: Rama Set on September 07, 2013, 01:59:28 PM
If walking away from an unanswered question is a concession in Tom's opinion then he has conceded substantial amounts to RET.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #98 on: September 07, 2013, 04:02:01 PM »
Quote from: Cartesian on September 07, 2013, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 07, 2013, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:19:47 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 06, 2013, 12:14:08 PM
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:12:46 PM
Irrelevant.  The atmosphere is not a closed system.  There is no fixed volume for the atmosphere to fill.

Do you disagree that molecules in the atmosphere at sea level would become less energetic the further they are from the sun?

That depends.  Are you suggesting that the sun's distance is the only factor that determines how energetic air molecules are?  Even in FET, the height if the atmosphere is only a small fraction of the distance to the sun.

I'll take your avoidance of the matter as a concession of defeat.

I think markjo already answered your question when he said "that depends". I agree with him on this because, the weather or climate is function of more than just distance to the sun. He further asked you a question which you haven't replied.

The weather and climate is the atmosphere, and the temperatures the atmosphere contains are in direct correlation with the proximity of the sun.

Are you denying that the climate is cooler when the sun is not around, and hotter when it is?

Are you denying that molecules are less excited at night, and more excited during the day?

It's not a difficult question. And it does not "depend". Even on Mt. Everest, it is warmer in the day when the molecules in the atmosphere are more excited, than it is at night. There are no sliding variables involved where some parts of the atmosphere are immune from the effects of the sun. There are no excruciating factors at play when the scenario is properly accounted for.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 04:04:57 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Rama Set

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Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #99 on: September 07, 2013, 04:47:09 PM »
But it is much warmer at the bottom of a mountain than at the top. This is why "it depends". Proximity to the sun is not the only important factor. Thought that should be restated since Tom missed it the first time.
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Quote from: charles bloomington on April 25, 2015, 04:13:06 PM
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.
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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18016
Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #100 on: September 07, 2013, 04:55:19 PM »
Quote from: Rama Set on September 07, 2013, 04:47:09 PM
But it is much warmer at the bottom of a mountain than at the top. This is why "it depends". Proximity to the sun is not the only important factor. Thought that should be restated since Tom missed it the first time.

No. It does not "depend" when variables are properly accounted for. Does the bottom of that mountain maintain its warmth both during the day and during the night?

In this question I proposed above we have two data points with similar environments. One of the data points has the mountain at night and the other has that mountain during the day, the only difference being that the sun is in closer proximity to one scenario than the other.

I will ask you RE'ers to refrain from playing stupid for a moment.
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Rama Set

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Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #101 on: September 07, 2013, 05:04:46 PM »
You were speaking if proximity to the sun generally at first and generally it depends. Your Everest at night question is a clearer question to be sure, but much different from where you started. Can you recognize that?  And do not get upset if people are not making the inferences you want, that has as much to do with the question as the answers. Cheers!
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Quote from: charles bloomington on April 25, 2015, 04:13:06 PM
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.
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markjo

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Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #102 on: September 07, 2013, 06:43:39 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 07, 2013, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:19:47 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 06, 2013, 12:14:08 PM
Quote from: markjo on September 06, 2013, 12:12:46 PM
Irrelevant.  The atmosphere is not a closed system.  There is no fixed volume for the atmosphere to fill.

Do you disagree that molecules in the atmosphere at sea level would become less energetic the further they are from the sun?

That depends.  Are you suggesting that the sun's distance is the only factor that determines how energetic air molecules are?  Even in FET, the height if the atmosphere is only a small fraction of the distance to the sun.

I'll take your avoidance of the matter as a concession of defeat.

Tom, you're hardly the one to accuse others of avoiding questions.  My response was an obvious request for clarification of your quesition.
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markjo

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Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #103 on: September 07, 2013, 06:54:23 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 07, 2013, 04:55:19 PM
Quote from: Rama Set on September 07, 2013, 04:47:09 PM
But it is much warmer at the bottom of a mountain than at the top. This is why "it depends". Proximity to the sun is not the only important factor. Thought that should be restated since Tom missed it the first time.

No. It does not "depend" when variables are properly accounted for. Does the bottom of that mountain maintain its warmth both during the day and during the night?

In this question I proposed above we have two data points with similar environments. One of the data points has the mountain at night and the other has that mountain during the day, the only difference being that the sun is in closer proximity to one scenario than the other.

Mount Kilimanjaro is about 3 degrees latitude south of the equator, yet has a permanent ice cap at its peak.  You tell me if the distance to the sun makes a difference.

Quote
I will ask you RE'ers to refrain from playing stupid for a moment.
I would ask the same of you, but my fear is that you aren't playing.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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ERTW

  • 611
  • Always fall back to common sense
Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #104 on: September 12, 2013, 07:52:44 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 07, 2013, 04:55:19 PM
Quote from: Rama Set on September 07, 2013, 04:47:09 PM
But it is much warmer at the bottom of a mountain than at the top. This is why "it depends". Proximity to the sun is not the only important factor. Thought that should be restated since Tom missed it the first time.

No. It does not "depend" when variables are properly accounted for. Does the bottom of that mountain maintain its warmth both during the day and during the night?


Yes, the bottom of the mountain does maintain its warmth at night. The bottom will be warmer than the top, due to heat capacity and the proximity of other warm ground. The impedance to the source is just as important as the source power. If I have a blow dryer pointed at my head, at a fixed distance, the heat that my head receives will change if I put a piece of cardboard in the way. The distance to the blow dryer is the same, the impedance between myself and the source changed.
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don2779

  • 17
Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #105 on: September 21, 2013, 11:41:41 PM »
I've seen several questions asked here, and will try to answer a few.
1. The Earth is heated by solar radiation all across the spectrum. Harmful radiation is mostly blocked by the Earth's magnetic field and it's atmosphere. What comes through provides heat for the planet.
2. Light, microwaves, gamma rays, etc... are massless. A medium is not required for travel, but is required to interact. ie. space cold, Earth warm.
3. Pressure and temperature are relative. Lower pressures at higher altitudes yield lower temps. Ask a scuba diver about gas laws.
4. As stated before. the primary reason for seasons is not distance but the angle of the Earth on its axis. At a steep angle some of the sun's rays skip off of the atmosphere and into space.
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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: For FEers Who Don't Believe in Gravity
« Reply #106 on: September 22, 2013, 01:30:18 AM »


Quote from: markjo on September 07, 2013, 06:54:23 PM
Mount Kilimanjaro is about 3 degrees latitude south of the equator, yet has a permanent ice cap at its peak.  You tell me if the distance to the sun makes a difference.

The higher up something is, the less agitated molecules there will be in terms of density, or thin air if you like, meaning the suns reflection cannot agitate those molecules with anything like the strength is can at the bottom of the mountain.
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