Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)

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Assassin X

Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« on: October 15, 2005, 12:41:14 PM »
If the earth is flat then explain these points, BTW I'll be acting sarcastic with these questions:

1. Then why when the space shuttle is "Orbiting" the earth is it going in a "Circle" around a giant dirt/water/molten ball? Or is that another object?

Examples:
A: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/wit/space4.jpg
B: http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/TECH/space/06/16/moon.mars.commission.final/story.nasa.gobeyond.jpg

2. I live on the beach of Lake Erie in Ohio (USA). Why is it I don't see Canada on the other side? Its not that far but I can't see it! I see the lights from the cities sometimes on the clouds! Is the water magically higher in the middle of the lake and it doesnt flood everything, thereby blocking the view of the city? Why?
Example (actual picutre):
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7084/untitled6qr1.jpg

3. When Satelittes take pictures of our planet and others why do the they go around the planets in circles? And why do the pictures end up looking like round balls???

Examples:
A: http://www.lunaroutpost.com/gallery/earth/images/earth_full_hires%20copy.jpg
B: http://www.xtec.es/recursos/astronom/mars/mars.jpg

4. If its flat then how come if you fired a rocket straight over roof tops as seen in the picture below (and pretend it had infinite fuel and it didn't lose its course) it would keep going into space?  People on the other side of eather woulnd not see it. Why?

See Here:
Part 1:
http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/6853/untitled2va.png
Part 2:
http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/2469/earthfullhires20copy6ek.jpg

Theres probably more I could do but since this has to be the stupids thing I've seen since the invention of the Nuke I don't want to waste anymore of my time on it.

All I got to say is if you can deny this evidence then you are trully troglodytes. Maybe next you'll debate fires existence or maybe the wheel.

Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2005, 11:15:13 PM »
well said! Read all u incompetent christains!
 r dominate forum

Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2013, 08:09:10 PM »
I believe this topic should be allowed in the lime-light once again, if only for question number 2:

This is a pretty big problem, especially with the Lake Michigan-Chicago thing, that thing being that only the upper portions of the skyline is visible from a park across Lake Michigan. Are there really 100-meter swells in the lake? Why would the lower, thicker parts of buildings vanish before the spire of the Willis Tower?

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2013, 08:25:58 PM »
I believe this topic should be allowed in the lime-light once again, if only for question number 2:

This is a pretty big problem, especially with the Lake Michigan-Chicago thing, that thing being that only the upper portions of the skyline is visible from a park across Lake Michigan. Are there really 100-meter swells in the lake? Why would the lower, thicker parts of buildings vanish before the spire of the Willis Tower?

It would not take 100m swells to obscure part of a building that, due to perspective, would appear to be very small.

Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2013, 09:05:03 PM »
I believe this topic should be allowed in the lime-light once again, if only for question number 2:

This is a pretty big problem, especially with the Lake Michigan-Chicago thing, that thing being that only the upper portions of the skyline is visible from a park across Lake Michigan. Are there really 100-meter swells in the lake? Why would the lower, thicker parts of buildings vanish before the spire of the Willis Tower?

It would not take 100m swells to obscure part of a building that, due to perspective, would appear to be very small.

You're right. This calls for math! Let's take this picture, taken from the Indiana Dunes, 50 kilometers away from the Willis Tower:



The Willis Tower being 530 m tall, and the lower bit of it being covered ... I'll be conservative and say the lower 150 meters are covered. The photograph is also taken about 2 meters off the ground. With the rounding from the Willis Tower, let's then say the height of our triangle is 525 m.

For this to happen, a wave's height would need to be taller the farther from the camera. It would need to follow the same ratios as 150 by 50,000. For an extremely high wave (6 m) to cover that, it would need to be closer than two kilometers. The water horizon at that altitude is ... about 6 kilometers.

Okay, fair 'nuff. I've not been to Lake Michigan (well, not on it. Wave explanation is plausible.

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hoppy

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2013, 04:01:35 PM »
If the earth was round none of those towers would be visible :'(
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Pyrolizard

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2013, 04:04:23 PM »
If the earth was round none of those towers would be visible :'(

Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?
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hoppy

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2013, 04:27:12 PM »
If the earth was round none of those towers would be visible :'(

Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?
It is already in another thread, I forget which.
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Pyrolizard

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2013, 04:29:24 PM »
If the earth was round none of those towers would be visible :'(

Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?
It is already in another thread, I forget which.
Feel free to present it at your leisure.
Quote from: Shmeggley
Wherever someone is wrong on the internet, Pyrolizard will be there!

Quote from: Excelsior John
I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2013, 04:48:16 PM »
If the earth was round none of those towers would be visible :'(

Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?

If my maths are correct (see below for an explanation of the equation--feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and/or provide me with the correct equations), then round-earth theory predicts the lower 200 meters of the Willis Tower would be covered. Compare the sunset photo with this diagram:

In the sunset photo, you can clearly see where the tower's middle section ends and the top begins. There is no likewise break between the middle and bottom, implying the bottom is mostly, if not entirely, covered. The bottom section is almost exactly 200 meters tall. This coincides perfectly with that round-earth predicts.

EQUATION:

Indiana Dunes is 50 kilometers from Chicago. That is about 0.00125 the circumference of the Earth, or about .4499 degrees around the circle. The (average) radius of the Earth being 6,371.0 kilometers, we can solve a triangle with the hypotenuse going form the center of the Earth to the base of the Willis Tower and the long leg going toward, but not quite touching, the base of the camera.

With an angle between the hypotenuse and long leg of .4499 degrees, the long leg is 6,371.0 * cos(.4499) = 6370.8 kilometers. This means the base of the Willis Tower is .2 kilometers below what the camera would view as 'horizontal'.

I factored in the fact that the tower isn't going straight 'up' according to the camera, but is leaning away at .4499 degrees. However, this changed the amount covered by a few millimeters at best, so I ignored them.

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Pyrolizard

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2013, 04:52:18 PM »
If the earth was round none of those towers would be visible :'(

Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?

If my maths are correct (see below for an explanation of the equation--feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and/or provide me with the correct equations), then round-earth theory predicts the lower 200 meters of the Willis Tower would be covered. Compare the sunset photo with this diagram:

In the sunset photo, you can clearly see where the tower's middle section ends and the top begins. There is no likewise break between the middle and bottom, implying the bottom is mostly, if not entirely, covered. The bottom section is almost exactly 200 meters tall. This coincides perfectly with that round-earth predicts.

EQUATION:

Indiana Dunes is 50 kilometers from Chicago. That is about 0.00125 the circumference of the Earth, or about .4499 degrees around the circle. The (average) radius of the Earth being 6,371.0 kilometers, we can solve a triangle with the hypotenuse going form the center of the Earth to the base of the Willis Tower and the long leg going toward, but not quite touching, the base of the camera.

With an angle between the hypotenuse and long leg of .4499 degrees, the long leg is 6,371.0 * cos(.4499) = 6370.8 kilometers. This means the base of the Willis Tower is .2 kilometers below what the camera would view as 'horizontal'.

I factored in the fact that the tower isn't going straight 'up' according to the camera, but is leaning away at .4499 degrees. However, this changed the amount covered by a few millimeters at best, so I ignored them.

Your efforts are much appreciated, Alex!
Quote from: Shmeggley
Wherever someone is wrong on the internet, Pyrolizard will be there!

Quote from: Excelsior John
I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

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hoppy

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2013, 04:55:14 AM »
If the earth was round none of those towers would be visible :'(

Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?
It is already in another thread, I forget which.
Feel free to present it at your leisure.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,58738.80.html#.UfUF9OBCRYU
God is real.                                         
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Pyrolizard

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2013, 06:59:25 AM »
If the earth was round none of those towers would be visible :'(

Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?
It is already in another thread, I forget which.
Feel free to present it at your leisure.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,58738.80.html#.UfUF9OBCRYU

I see Lolflatdiscs's calculations, but none of your own.
Quote from: Shmeggley
Wherever someone is wrong on the internet, Pyrolizard will be there!

Quote from: Excelsior John
I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

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hoppy

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2013, 08:31:33 AM »
If the earth was round none of those towers would be visible :'(

Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?
It is already in another thread, I forget which.
Feel free to present it at your leisure.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,58738.80.html#.UfUF9OBCRYU

I see Lolflatdiscs's calculations, but none of your own.
You really should lurk more, but here is the short version from memory. The expected RE drop over 45.5 miles was something like 1400', and most of those buildings are shorter than that.
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Pyrolizard

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2013, 08:46:12 AM »
Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?
It is already in another thread, I forget which.
Feel free to present it at your leisure.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,58738.80.html#.UfUF9OBCRYU

I see Lolflatdiscs's calculations, but none of your own.
You really should lurk more, but here is the short version from memory. The expected RE drop over 45.5 miles was something like 1400', and most of those buildings are shorter than that.
So because you couldn't be bothered to direct me toward the math used, you pull numbers out of nowhere and tell me to find how they were gotten myself?  That's not my issue, I'm not the one claiming the buildings would be covered entirely by the curvature of the Earth.  I didn't even claim they wouldn't, only asked for the equations which found that result. 

If you want a proof that they wouldn't, address Alex's post.  Until then, feel free to present the math at you leisure.  The actual equations, please, and not just the resultant numbers.
Quote from: Shmeggley
Wherever someone is wrong on the internet, Pyrolizard will be there!

Quote from: Excelsior John
I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

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hoppy

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2013, 03:16:39 PM »
Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?
It is already in another thread, I forget which.
Feel free to present it at your leisure.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,58738.80.html#.UfUF9OBCRYU

I see Lolflatdiscs's calculations, but none of your own.
You really should lurk more, but here is the short version from memory. The expected RE drop over 45.5 miles was something like 1400', and most of those buildings are shorter than that.
So because you couldn't be bothered to direct me toward the math used, you pull numbers out of nowhere and tell me to find how they were gotten myself?  That's not my issue, I'm not the one claiming the buildings would be covered entirely by the curvature of the Earth.  I didn't even claim they wouldn't, only asked for the equations which found that result. 

If you want a proof that they wouldn't, address Alex's post.  Until then, feel free to present the math at you leisure.  The actual equations, please, and not just the resultant numbers.
This quote is the result of a previous study.

The RE expected drop is 1398' at 45.8 miles. Plus 20' of the dunes. This means you could see nothing at all under 1378' if the earth is round. You can see several buildings that are 600' high. There would be no way to see the other buildings at all. The earth is flat.

Feel free to review the thread I linked earlier. Those 600' buildings would be under a lot of water, covering way past their tops. You will learn more doing your own work, rather than FE'ers spoon feeding you.
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Pyrolizard

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2013, 03:27:13 PM »
Care to take after Alex's example, and present the math?
It is already in another thread, I forget which.
Feel free to present it at your leisure.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,58738.80.html#.UfUF9OBCRYU

I see Lolflatdiscs's calculations, but none of your own.
You really should lurk more, but here is the short version from memory. The expected RE drop over 45.5 miles was something like 1400', and most of those buildings are shorter than that.
So because you couldn't be bothered to direct me toward the math used, you pull numbers out of nowhere and tell me to find how they were gotten myself?  That's not my issue, I'm not the one claiming the buildings would be covered entirely by the curvature of the Earth.  I didn't even claim they wouldn't, only asked for the equations which found that result. 

If you want a proof that they wouldn't, address Alex's post.  Until then, feel free to present the math at you leisure.  The actual equations, please, and not just the resultant numbers.
This quote is the result of a previous study.

The RE expected drop is 1398' at 45.8 miles. Plus 20' of the dunes. This means you could see nothing at all under 1378' if the earth is round. You can see several buildings that are 600' high. There would be no way to see the other buildings at all. The earth is flat.

Feel free to review the thread I linked earlier. Those 600' buildings would be under a lot of water, covering way past their tops. You will learn more doing your own work, rather than FE'ers spoon feeding you.

Seriously, feel free to cite what study.  Citation isn't some evil thing to be avoided at all costs.
Quote from: Shmeggley
Wherever someone is wrong on the internet, Pyrolizard will be there!

Quote from: Excelsior John
I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2013, 03:30:32 PM »
This quote is the result of a previous study.

The RE expected drop is 1398' at 45.8 miles. Plus 20' of the dunes. This means you could see nothing at all under 1378' if the earth is round. You can see several buildings that are 600' high. There would be no way to see the other buildings at all. The earth is flat.

Feel free to review the thread I linked earlier. Those 600' buildings would be under a lot of water, covering way past their tops. You will learn more doing your own work, rather than FE'ers spoon feeding you.

Care to cite your equations? I've cited mine and come up with a 200-meter drop over 50 kilometers (line-of-sight distance from Indiana Dunes to Willis Tower is 50.89 kilometers. Driving distance is 51.1 miles. That might be where you're getting your numbers).

I have also shown that this 200-meter drop is easily seen in the Willis Tower, since the bottom section, at about 200 meters tall, is completely hidden.

I do not know the other building of Chicago, and since most in the picture look like nondescript blocks I wouldn't be able to identify them anyway without a vast knowledge of Chicago. However, I see nine buildings, and the ninth tallest building in Chicago is the Water Place Tower at 262 meters. Now, this picture might not show the entirety of the Chicago skyline, but on face value it appears that no building shorter than 200 meters is visible.

Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2013, 04:07:36 AM »
This might be of some use to help calculate distance to horizon etc

http://www.ringbell.co.uk/info/hdist.htm

I'd like to agree with you but then we'd both be wrong!

Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2013, 07:38:04 AM »
1. Yes, we all know that NASA is pretty good at using Photoshop.
2. Use a pair of binoculars, and you will see them. Obviously,  it is farther than you think.
3. See point 1. If you assume that satellites exist, then all sorts of nonsense can be fabricated.
4. What are you trying to say? It sounds like you are doing a thought experiment.

Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2013, 10:53:01 AM »
The RE expected drop is 1398' at 45.8 miles. Plus 20' of the dunes. This means you could see nothing at all under 1378' if the earth is round. You can see several buildings that are 600' high. There would be no way to see the other buildings at all. The earth is flat.
The Willis Tower is about 20 ft above the lake.  The photographer is about 20 ft above the lake.  This reduces the amount of line of sight blocking curvature to perhaps 37 miles.  The drop for 37 miles is maybe 850 ft.  (If someone wants to do the math for this, go for it)

Refraction would allow for a compressed view of some more that would be hidden below the water.

*

hoppy

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2013, 12:12:53 PM »
The RE expected drop is 1398' at 45.8 miles. Plus 20' of the dunes. This means you could see nothing at all under 1378' if the earth is round. You can see several buildings that are 600' high. There would be no way to see the other buildings at all. The earth is flat.
The Willis Tower is about 20 ft above the lake.  The photographer is about 20 ft above the lake.  This reduces the amount of line of sight blocking curvature to perhaps 37 miles.  The drop for 37 miles is maybe 850 ft.  (If someone wants to do the math for this, go for it)

Refraction would allow for a compressed view of some more that would be hidden below the water.
The linked chart below is an accepted view on RE drop, it uses the pythagorean theorem. I have personally verified it's accuracy, you are welcome to also.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za05.htm

The expected drop over 48.5 miles is 1398'.




 Here is all the data on the office buildings in downtown Chicago. Willis tower is 1482' high. Aon tower is 1136' high, the second highest building. You should not be able to see any of this Aon Center tower.1136 - 1398 = -262. This means Aon tower should be 262' under water by RE reckoning. However you see it, and many other smaller buildings. This could not be possible on a round earth.

Click on the other building to obtain their height and other data.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Tower

I hope this helps.


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robintex

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2013, 12:26:32 PM »
Here is an experiment that could easily be done to prove whether or not the earth is flat or is round.:

Maybe there are some members of the USN or persons taking a cruise from....For example : Say.... San Diego or San Francisco to Honolulu. There should be plenty of persons.

Take some pictures as you start to sail westward.

See which you observe.:

1.FE says that since the earth is flat the buildings will just get smaller as you proceed westward and if you had a powerful enough telescope you could always brings them back into vision no matter how far away you might be from them.

2.RE says that since the earth is round as you proceed westward due to the curvature of the earth the bottoms of the buildings will first disappear and eventually the tops of the buildings will disappear and there is no way you can bring them back into vision with a telescope, no matter how powerful it might be.

Maybe someone can supply the forum with some pictures to prove which is true : #1 or #2. ?

I have proved #2 to be true from personal observation. Unfortunately, I didn't think to take pictures. It's just "common knowledge" but of course FE won't accept that. They probably won't accept any photographs either. Once again this is The Flat Earth Society Forum and anything RE will post is either fake or photoshopped.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 12:29:19 PM by Googleotomy »
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Pyrolizard

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2013, 12:30:55 PM »
The RE expected drop is 1398' at 45.8 miles. Plus 20' of the dunes. This means you could see nothing at all under 1378' if the earth is round. You can see several buildings that are 600' high. There would be no way to see the other buildings at all. The earth is flat.
The Willis Tower is about 20 ft above the lake.  The photographer is about 20 ft above the lake.  This reduces the amount of line of sight blocking curvature to perhaps 37 miles.  The drop for 37 miles is maybe 850 ft.  (If someone wants to do the math for this, go for it)

Refraction would allow for a compressed view of some more that would be hidden below the water.
The linked chart below is an accepted view on RE drop, it uses the pythagorean theorem. I have personally verified it's accuracy, you are welcome to also.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za05.htm

The expected drop over 48.5 miles is 1398'.




 Here is all the data on the office buildings in downtown Chicago. Willis tower is 1482' high. Aon tower is 1136' high, the second highest building. You should not be able to see any of this Aon Center tower.1136 - 1398 = -262. This means Aon tower should be 262' under water by RE reckoning. However you see it, and many other smaller buildings. This could not be possible on a round earth.

Click on the other building to obtain their height and other data.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Tower

I hope this helps.




Are you going to acknowledge refraction at all, or just post a chart with the actual drop distances?  Because perceived drop is different from actual drop, and refraction is a very real occurrence that affects how far the perceived drop would be.

Edit:  As a minor point, but nowhere in New Buffalo, Michigan is there a location forty eight miles from the Willis Tower.  From the coast of New Buffalo to the Willis Tower, the distance is closer to forty five and a half miles.  From the city limits of New Buffalo on land, the distance is closer at forty seven miles.  And from the actual coast of Chicago, near to the Chicago River, the distance is slightly under forty six and a half miles.  Parts of uptown Chicago are that far, but at the very least the entire photograph isn't as distant as the headline claims.

Distances courtesy of Google Maps, fact checking, and intentionally pointing out minor flaws in your argument to avoid boredom.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 12:54:42 PM by Pyrolizard »
Quote from: Shmeggley
Wherever someone is wrong on the internet, Pyrolizard will be there!

Quote from: Excelsior John
I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

*

hoppy

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2013, 12:33:09 PM »
Look at the data presented and study it. If you want to keep denying the obvious, you are certainly welcome to.
God is real.                                         
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robintex

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2013, 12:42:49 PM »
The RE expected drop is 1398' at 45.8 miles. Plus 20' of the dunes. This means you could see nothing at all under 1378' if the earth is round. You can see several buildings that are 600' high. There would be no way to see the other buildings at all. The earth is flat.
The Willis Tower is about 20 ft above the lake.  The photographer is about 20 ft above the lake.  This reduces the amount of line of sight blocking curvature to perhaps 37 miles.  The drop for 37 miles is maybe 850 ft.  (If someone wants to do the math for this, go for it)

Refraction would allow for a compressed view of some more that would be hidden below the water.
The linked chart below is an accepted view on RE drop, it uses the pythagorean theorem. I have personally verified it's accuracy, you are welcome to also.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za05.htm

The expected drop over 48.5 miles is 1398'.




 Here is all the data on the office buildings in downtown Chicago. Willis tower is 1482' high. Aon tower is 1136' high, the second highest building. You should not be able to see any of this Aon Center tower.1136 - 1398 = -262. This means Aon tower should be 262' under water by RE reckoning. However you see it, and many other smaller buildings. This could not be possible on a round earth.

Click on the other building to obtain their height and other data.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Tower

I hope this helps.

What was the height of the camera ? This should be taken into account also unless the photo was taken with the camera at water level.
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hoppy

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2013, 12:48:08 PM »
On the dunes, probably 20' above the water, wich can be subtracted from the total RE drop. 1398- 20 = 1378
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 07:35:20 PM by hoppy »
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Pyrolizard

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2013, 12:57:49 PM »
Look at the data presented and study it. If you want to keep denying the obvious, you are certainly welcome to.

Start factoring in refraction and I will.  Again, a very real and observed phenomena regardless of the Earth's shape that can cause the viewing distance to be further than expected given the drop of the Earth.  Heck, you can probably even get the average humidity above Lake Michigan to more accurately calculate how much the refraction would affect the light.  Or you could be lazy and leave part of your point unattended to, but then it's not proof against a round Earth.
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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2013, 01:35:32 PM »
Here is all the data on the office buildings in downtown Chicago. Willis tower is 1482' high. Aon tower is 1136' high, the second highest building. You should not be able to see any of this Aon Center tower.1136 - 1398 = -262. This means Aon tower should be 262' under water by RE reckoning. However you see it, and many other smaller buildings. This could not be possible on a round earth.

I did a quick Google search of photographs of Chicago from New Buffalo and these two were the only ones I found:




The problem with these is that they're impossible to tell how high off the water they are. It's certainly not at the water's edge, which makes calculating drop distances a bit more difficult. For my calculations, a camera at height h will have the same view as a camera x kilometers closer, with x being the horizon of the camera at height h.

First, let's calculate the base drop of a camera at water level of the upper picture (all references will be to that upper picture, by the way). That pier gives a good indication that the picture was taken near 41 48 03.30 N, 86 44 51.43 W. From there to the base of the Willis Tower is 74.29 kilometers. That gives us a drop of 434 meters[nb]The equation I'm using is h = Rearth - Rearth * cos[(d/Cearth)*360] with d being the distance form the camera to the object[/nb].

The road near the beach at which this photo was taken is 10 meters above the surface of the lake. Assuming the photograph was taken there, that gives it an effective view of a camera 11.3 kilometers closer to Chicago (that is, a camera floating on the lake 11.3 kilometers from New Buffalo would be able to see both Chicago and the camera at New Buffalo).

This new data gives us a drop of only 312 meters. Now, let's calculate for each of the other identifiable buildings in the picture.

Right of Willis Tower are a trio of buildings, two tall and the middle one short.
The left building is Aon Center (346 m, drop of 301 m for 45 m visible)
The right building is Trump Tower (357 m (roof), drop of 305 m for 52 m visible)

The far right is the John Hancock Center (344 m (roof), drop of 304 m for 40 m visible).

In general, the drop for the skyline of Chicago is around 306 meters, the closest buildings experiencing only 284 meters. There are seven buildings taller than 290 meters. While there are a few more visible in the picture, keep in mind the second photograph.

In that one, only the Aon Center is visible in the middle, with the Trump Tower, both physically and apparently taller, completely missing. This shows that refraction can account for at least 50 meters either way, which puts both pictures easily within the realm of RE possibility.

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hoppy

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Re: Proof earth isn't flat! (All you troglodytes read)
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2013, 08:04:26 PM »
It seems you are making this more complicated than need be. The drop over 48.5 miles is 1398' according to RET. Look at the heights of the buildings that are seen, some are 600' high. They should be  way under water, but as you can see they are not. Subtract the building height from 1398, that tells you how far under water the building should be. Surely you can tell that those buildings are not under water.
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