Poll

Why do you support Donald Trump?

I don't want mexicans to come
22 (24.2%)
I want him to fight terrorism
13 (14.3%)
Free trade is bad
6 (6.6%)
He is the wild card we need
50 (54.9%)

Total Members Voted: 85

Why do you support donald trump

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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22350 on: February 19, 2024, 02:22:30 AM »
Made in China?  Mexico?
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22351 on: February 19, 2024, 06:47:24 AM »
Quote
"The sudden death of Alexei Navalny has made me more and more aware of what is happening in our Country,"
OK....

Quote
"It is a slow, steady progression, with CROOKED, Radical Left Politicians, Prosecutors, and Judges leading us down a path to destruction. Open Borders, Rigged Elections, and Grossly Unfair Courtroom Decisions are DESTROYING AMERICA. WE ARE A NATION IN DECLINE, A FAILING NATION! MAGA2024"
Ah, of course.  That's why Navalny died.
"I'm not entirely sure who this guy is, but JimmyTheLobster is clearly a genius.  Probably one of the smartest arthropods  of his generation." - JimmyTheCrab

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22352 on: February 20, 2024, 06:48:49 AM »
#BoycottGoFundMe is trending.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-gofundme-civil-fraud-fine-1871176

Quote
GoFundMe has responded to concerns a page set up after Donald Trump was fined in his civil fraud judgment is in breach of the platform's rules.

Speaking to Newsweek, a spokesperson from the platform confirmed that the page, which was set up for the former president on Friday, following Judge Arthur Engoron's ruling that Trump will have to pay roughly $355 million in penalties for fraud, was "within its terms and services" despite people voicing their concerns about it on social media.

I expect GoFundMe to cave to the pressure soon. OR maybe they won't. I think corporations are finally beginning to realize that people shouting on the internet aren't representative of the opinions of most people. GoFundMe has caved to many hashtag campaigns over the years, so we'll have to see.

This is not to say that I approve of Trump crowdfunding to pay off this judgement. I mean, I thought he was a bazillionaire! He should have this money lying around somewhere. lol
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22353 on: February 20, 2024, 07:41:56 AM »
#BoycottGoFundMe is trending.
This is not to say that I approve of Trump crowdfunding to pay off this judgement. I mean, I thought he was a bazillionaire! He should have this money lying around somewhere. lol
Well, he's nowhere near as rich as he says he is and he certainly hasn't got that kind of money in liquid assets. 

He might have to start selling off property  - then we'll see how much it is really worth  :o
"I'm not entirely sure who this guy is, but JimmyTheLobster is clearly a genius.  Probably one of the smartest arthropods  of his generation." - JimmyTheCrab

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The woke left have tried to erase photosynthesis

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22354 on: February 20, 2024, 07:49:47 AM »
I don't see anything wrong with using gofundme for this.  At least not on gofundme's part.

It is an odd mindset these people have. Trump is a billionaire but he needs your money? It reminds me of church tithing. God is all powerful but he needs 10% off the top before taxing, not after taxes.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22355 on: February 20, 2024, 09:18:45 AM »
$676,388USD raised of $355,000,000


Well, just a little more to go.  It's probably now enough to get a decent legal team (at least for a few days), but it's probably too late for that.

They say the courts favour the rich in America, which is obviously true.   In large part because of  in an adversarial system they can afford to throw the best legal minds in the country at it and spend enormous amounts supporting them.

Donnie decided this wasn't fair, so just gets clowns willing to work for publicity on his case.  With the results you would expect (though he seems surprised).

You'd think by this stage he might think, OK lets splash out and get one of those platinum coated ultra high end law firms from New York, like all the other really wealthy people use.  Ones called something Bastard & FuckYou Partners.

Cheap lawyers seem like a false economy, but I suppose that's what he's all about.  He's such a grifter he even grifts himself.
"I'm not entirely sure who this guy is, but JimmyTheLobster is clearly a genius.  Probably one of the smartest arthropods  of his generation." - JimmyTheCrab

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The woke left have tried to erase photosynthesis

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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22356 on: February 20, 2024, 10:00:56 PM »
Stupid outrage is stupid. :/
That being said... What about Trump's NY properites?  Doesn't he have to sell them or something since he was banned from business deals in ny?

Jimmmy: the good lawyers won't touch him.  Most of them anyway.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22357 on: February 20, 2024, 10:20:17 PM »
Y'all are so focused on getting trump you don't see what this really means. The legal system is being used as a weapon against a political opponent, no different than the "insurrection" Jan 9th.

Next step is to start hanging political opponents in the street.
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22358 on: February 20, 2024, 10:48:45 PM »
It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22359 on: February 20, 2024, 10:57:58 PM »
It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.

He didn't break the law, at least on this particular subject
Quote from: Bom Tishop
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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22360 on: February 21, 2024, 01:54:59 AM »
It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.

He didn't break the law, at least on this particular subject

Which subject?  There's like 3 major cases against him.  One of which he was found guilty and the other two are in progress.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22361 on: February 21, 2024, 05:44:49 AM »
It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.

He didn't break the law, at least on this particular subject

He misrepresented his assets to reduce taxes and improve his loan conditions.  I'm pretty sure this breaks some law. Whether or not the punishment is a bit much is a different discussion.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22362 on: February 21, 2024, 07:32:15 AM »
Whether or not the punishment is a bit much is a different discussion.
It is meant to be in line with the value of the assets involved and the ability to pay the fine.  Someone on welfare mispresenting the value of their car on an insurance claim isn't going to be fine $384m.

Trump claims he is a multi-billionaire, so it shouldn't be a problem for him to pay...
"I'm not entirely sure who this guy is, but JimmyTheLobster is clearly a genius.  Probably one of the smartest arthropods  of his generation." - JimmyTheCrab

Quote from: bulmabriefs144
The woke left have tried to erase photosynthesis

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22363 on: February 21, 2024, 09:13:05 AM »
never try and separate a billionaire from a dollar.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22364 on: February 21, 2024, 02:31:32 PM »
never try and separate a billionaire from a dollar.

True story, people that rich are that way for a reason. On the backs of others

It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.

He didn't break the law, at least on this particular subject

He misrepresented his assets to reduce taxes and improve his loan conditions.  I'm pretty sure this breaks some law. Whether or not the punishment is a bit much is a different discussion.

Yet there was no proof for that? No one that was a victim? Even the banks said they weren't a victim and they were repaid with interest.... If this were some Joe Blow billionaire this never would have happened. It was for the reason it was Trump and a Republican being sniped by Democrats trying to break him so he won't be a threat anymore.

I don't care about Trump, I care about the president this sets
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22365 on: February 21, 2024, 03:58:02 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/20/us/alabama-embryo-law-ruling-supreme-court/index.html





The us govt doesnt care about rich people havig babies.

They care anout poor people NOT having babies.


Predatory loans, for profit jails, and the military all need people!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2024, 04:00:01 PM by Themightykabool »

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22366 on: February 21, 2024, 03:59:00 PM »
never try and separate a billionaire from a dollar.

True story, people that rich are that way for a reason. On the backs of others

It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.

He didn't break the law, at least on this particular subject

He misrepresented his assets to reduce taxes and improve his loan conditions.  I'm pretty sure this breaks some law. Whether or not the punishment is a bit much is a different discussion.

Yet there was no proof for that? No one that was a victim? Even the banks said they weren't a victim and they were repaid with interest.... If this were some Joe Blow billionaire this never would have happened. It was for the reason it was Trump and a Republican being sniped by Democrats trying to break him so he won't be a threat anymore.

I don't care about Trump, I care about the president this sets




prec·e·dent
noun
/ˈpresədnt/
an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.
"there are substantial precedents for using interactive media in training"





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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22367 on: February 21, 2024, 04:01:02 PM »
never try and separate a billionaire from a dollar.

True story, people that rich are that way for a reason. On the backs of others

It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.

He didn't break the law, at least on this particular subject

He misrepresented his assets to reduce taxes and improve his loan conditions.  I'm pretty sure this breaks some law. Whether or not the punishment is a bit much is a different discussion.

Yet there was no proof for that? No one that was a victim? Even the banks said they weren't a victim and they were repaid with interest.... If this were some Joe Blow billionaire this never would have happened. It was for the reason it was Trump and a Republican being sniped by Democrats trying to break him so he won't be a threat anymore.

I don't care about Trump, I care about the president this sets

I think there was proof of this.  His valuation of his properties was an order of magnitude higher when he was seeking financing than when he was doing his taxes.  That seems like fraud.

Yeah I've heard that about the banks.  Like I said, whether or not the penalty was excessive is a different conversation and one I'm not setup to offer much of an informed opinion on. 

The impression I get though is that it's kind of excessive.  But I'd have to do a level of research to confirm that that I'm not interested in doing.  I don't know.  Maybe there's a reason behind the number.
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The truth behind NASA's budget

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22368 on: February 21, 2024, 08:32:10 PM »
never try and separate a billionaire from a dollar.

True story, people that rich are that way for a reason. On the backs of others

It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.

He didn't break the law, at least on this particular subject

He misrepresented his assets to reduce taxes and improve his loan conditions.  I'm pretty sure this breaks some law. Whether or not the punishment is a bit much is a different discussion.

Yet there was no proof for that? No one that was a victim? Even the banks said they weren't a victim and they were repaid with interest.... If this were some Joe Blow billionaire this never would have happened. It was for the reason it was Trump and a Republican being sniped by Democrats trying to break him so he won't be a threat anymore.

I don't care about Trump, I care about the president this sets




prec·e·dent
noun
/ˈpresədnt/
an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.
"there are substantial precedents for using interactive media in training"





Umm, it was attempted word play because you know, he was the president and all. I thought it was clever. Thanks for shitting all over that.

I will never understand grammar Nazis. It has nothing to do with the subject matter and yall only look like douche bags with nothing to add to the conversation. I suppose highly technical conversations in certain fields it can matter, beyond that, get on with that nonsense.


I think there was proof of this.  His valuation of his properties was an order of magnitude higher when he was seeking financing than when he was doing his taxes.  That seems like fraud.

Yeah I've heard that about the banks.  Like I said, whether or not the penalty was excessive is a different conversation and one I'm not setup to offer much of an informed opinion on. 

The impression I get though is that it's kind of excessive.  But I'd have to do a level of research to confirm that that I'm not interested in doing.  I don't know.  Maybe there's a reason behind the number.

No more so than most other people in the same circumstances. Plus, the banks did their own due diligence and said they saw no issues, were paid back as agreed etc etc. There was no victim or crime here yet he is guilty and owes 100s of millions of dollars off the thoughts of one liberal judge and one liberal prosecutor?

Surely how they are coming after Trump and trying to take his money on shady cases would put up a few red flags? Right at election time? Only liberals are involved?

I mean that "rape" case, you or I could have been convicted on that with zero evidence. Who knows what he did, but do you want to live in a world like this where those in power can do whatever they want to you if they don't like you? I am pretty sure we can point out some countries like that in the world and they are not pretty, nor places the average person would want to visit much less live.
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

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Lorddave

  • 18149
Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22369 on: February 21, 2024, 09:46:43 PM »
never try and separate a billionaire from a dollar.

True story, people that rich are that way for a reason. On the backs of others

It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.

He didn't break the law, at least on this particular subject

He misrepresented his assets to reduce taxes and improve his loan conditions.  I'm pretty sure this breaks some law. Whether or not the punishment is a bit much is a different discussion.

Yet there was no proof for that? No one that was a victim? Even the banks said they weren't a victim and they were repaid with interest.... If this were some Joe Blow billionaire this never would have happened. It was for the reason it was Trump and a Republican being sniped by Democrats trying to break him so he won't be a threat anymore.

I don't care about Trump, I care about the president this sets




prec·e·dent
noun
/ˈpresədnt/
an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.
"there are substantial precedents for using interactive media in training"





Umm, it was attempted word play because you know, he was the president and all. I thought it was clever. Thanks for shitting all over that.

I will never understand grammar Nazis. It has nothing to do with the subject matter and yall only look like douche bags with nothing to add to the conversation. I suppose highly technical conversations in certain fields it can matter, beyond that, get on with that nonsense.


I think there was proof of this.  His valuation of his properties was an order of magnitude higher when he was seeking financing than when he was doing his taxes.  That seems like fraud.

Yeah I've heard that about the banks.  Like I said, whether or not the penalty was excessive is a different conversation and one I'm not setup to offer much of an informed opinion on. 

The impression I get though is that it's kind of excessive.  But I'd have to do a level of research to confirm that that I'm not interested in doing.  I don't know.  Maybe there's a reason behind the number.

No more so than most other people in the same circumstances. Plus, the banks did their own due diligence and said they saw no issues, were paid back as agreed etc etc. There was no victim or crime here yet he is guilty and owes 100s of millions of dollars off the thoughts of one liberal judge and one liberal prosecutor?

Surely how they are coming after Trump and trying to take his money on shady cases would put up a few red flags? Right at election time? Only liberals are involved?

I mean that "rape" case, you or I could have been convicted on that with zero evidence. Who knows what he did, but do you want to live in a world like this where those in power can do whatever they want to you if they don't like you? I am pretty sure we can point out some countries like that in the world and they are not pretty, nor places the average person would want to visit much less live.

Does an illegal act become legal if the victim doesn't complain?

Also, is your rationale of political tampering really "I haven't heard about any others on the news so it doesn't happen!" ?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2024, 09:55:21 PM by Lorddave »
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22370 on: February 21, 2024, 11:11:07 PM »

No more so than most other people in the same circumstances. Plus, the banks did their own due diligence and said they saw no issues, were paid back as agreed etc etc. There was no victim or crime here yet he is guilty and owes 100s of millions of dollars off the thoughts of one liberal judge and one liberal prosecutor?

Surely how they are coming after Trump and trying to take his money on shady cases would put up a few red flags? Right at election time? Only liberals are involved?

I mean that "rape" case, you or I could have been convicted on that with zero evidence. Who knows what he did, but do you want to live in a world like this where those in power can do whatever they want to you if they don't like you? I am pretty sure we can point out some countries like that in the world and they are not pretty, nor places the average person would want to visit much less live.

Not me.  I don't inflate the value of my assets when I seek financing.  Nor do I deflate the value of my assets when I'm doing my taxes. 

Because that would be fraud. 

Which is illegal.

If these banks were so eager to do business with him then why was the fraud necessary?  Perhaps Trump commits fraud for fun?

The rape case, I think there were contemporary accounts so it wasn't just completely made up.  That trial was about defamation though.  And Trump did awesome.  He immediately defamed her more immediately after the first trial.

These trials would have come much soon if Trump didn't fight the courts at every possible point.

But these are small potatoes.  These are just civil cases.

The criminal cases are;

The hush money payment thing.  Something about silencing a porn star.  Seems kind of silly to try this as a felony.  But see how his lawyer Cohen served a couple years for this it seems reasonable that he should too.

There's the rico trial in Goergia.  I don't know the law their.  The justice system will have to sort it out.

Ditto the fake voters in DC.

The classified documents case however, now that's my jam.  I happen to know the law here very well.  And what Trump did was completely indefensible.  A prison sentence , under Trump's own rules mind you, would be 5 years.  Maybe more.

He doesnt' have to have these trials occur during the election.  He intentionally did that by slowing things down as much as possible.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22371 on: February 22, 2024, 01:08:14 AM »

Does an illegal act become legal if the victim doesn't complain?

Also, is your rationale of political tampering really "I haven't heard about any others on the news so it doesn't happen!" ?

Your comparison is incorrect. There was not a victim that didn't complain, there was not a victim at all. The "victim" of the case said they were not a victim, their due diligence agreed with what Trump's team said, they processed the loans, they were repaid with the agreed interest and the agreed time limits.

You can't get a loan for a normal house without proving everything. You cannot say I make one million dollars a year and have infinite collateral without proving it. And even then the bank will do it's due diligence their own way.

The state just made up BS numbers to get him. No different than not being guilty of a crime, so the judge makes up a new law on the spot and finds you guilty of that.

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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22372 on: February 22, 2024, 02:29:23 AM »

Does an illegal act become legal if the victim doesn't complain?

Also, is your rationale of political tampering really "I haven't heard about any others on the news so it doesn't happen!" ?

Your comparison is incorrect. There was not a victim that didn't complain, there was not a victim at all. The "victim" of the case said they were not a victim, their due diligence agreed with what Trump's team said, they processed the loans, they were repaid with the agreed interest and the agreed time limits.

You can't get a loan for a normal house without proving everything. You cannot say I make one million dollars a year and have infinite collateral without proving it. And even then the bank will do it's due diligence their own way.

The state just made up BS numbers to get him. No different than not being guilty of a crime, so the judge makes up a new law on the spot and finds you guilty of that.

1. He did, infact, overvalue.  He even admitted it.
2. If you want to claim he was accurate then he commited tax fraud by signifcantly undervaluing his property to the state.  The two should match.  They did not. 
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22373 on: February 22, 2024, 10:30:54 PM »
never try and separate a billionaire from a dollar.

True story, people that rich are that way for a reason. On the backs of others

It's terrifying.  The only sure fire way to avoid this tribulation is to not break the law.  Which is obviously a completely unreasonable requirement.

He didn't break the law, at least on this particular subject

He misrepresented his assets to reduce taxes and improve his loan conditions.  I'm pretty sure this breaks some law. Whether or not the punishment is a bit much is a different discussion.

Yet there was no proof for that? No one that was a victim? Even the banks said they weren't a victim and they were repaid with interest.... If this were some Joe Blow billionaire this never would have happened. It was for the reason it was Trump and a Republican being sniped by Democrats trying to break him so he won't be a threat anymore.

I don't care about Trump, I care about the president this sets




prec·e·dent
noun
/ˈpresədnt/
an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.
"there are substantial precedents for using interactive media in training"





Umm, it was attempted word play because you know, he was the president and all. I thought it was clever. Thanks for shitting all over that.

I will never understand grammar Nazis. It has nothing to do with the subject matter and yall only look like douche bags with nothing to add to the conversation. I suppose highly technical conversations in certain fields it can matter, beyond that, get on with that nonsense.


I think there was proof of this.  His valuation of his properties was an order of magnitude higher when he was seeking financing than when he was doing his taxes.  That seems like fraud.

Yeah I've heard that about the banks.  Like I said, whether or not the penalty was excessive is a different conversation and one I'm not setup to offer much of an informed opinion on. 

The impression I get though is that it's kind of excessive.  But I'd have to do a level of research to confirm that that I'm not interested in doing.  I don't know.  Maybe there's a reason behind the number.

No more so than most other people in the same circumstances. Plus, the banks did their own due diligence and said they saw no issues, were paid back as agreed etc etc. There was no victim or crime here yet he is guilty and owes 100s of millions of dollars off the thoughts of one liberal judge and one liberal prosecutor?

Surely how they are coming after Trump and trying to take his money on shady cases would put up a few red flags? Right at election time? Only liberals are involved?

I mean that "rape" case, you or I could have been convicted on that with zero evidence. Who knows what he did, but do you want to live in a world like this where those in power can do whatever they want to you if they don't like you? I am pretty sure we can point out some countries like that in the world and they are not pretty, nor places the average person would want to visit much less live.



UYeah I'm in kabool mode right now.  But i'll try to recal the more salient points of the video.  Also you can watch the video.

Businesses actually use these financial statements to determine the value of the property.  They don't necessarily do the own work.

Trump went through quite of bit of effort to make sure his statements say what they said it should.  This gotes beyondn just cliaiming "my house is worth 10x the value!!!111"

The pnelaty they apply to Trump is equal to the lost income due to the fraud.  So they figure. 300 m lost, then that should be a fee.


Another angle of this that's important to remember.  This is not trump's first rodeo.  He defrauded NY with the charitable organization.  He defauded NY with trump university.

Trump's banks were actually victims in this crime.  they would have made more with  correct informtion.

From what I can tell in this video then this penalty makes sense. Especially since this is far from the first time he's ran afoul o fht ecourts.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22374 on: February 23, 2024, 05:29:50 AM »
When a regular persongets defrauded the banks say booohoo too bad you shouldve been more careful.


When a bank gets defrauded because theyre too lazy to do their own appraisal, the public needs to come to our rescue!


Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22375 on: February 25, 2024, 10:20:09 PM »
Soooo trump says to a blacksfortrump convention:

"I got my mug shot.   You guys should know all about that".


Hahhahahah

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22376 on: February 26, 2024, 04:24:51 AM »
Soooo trump says to a blacksfortrump convention:

"I got my mug shot.   You guys should know all about that".


Hahhahahah

Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22377 on: February 26, 2024, 05:01:19 AM »
Aaahcanada wont pet me aee video

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22378 on: February 26, 2024, 05:02:14 AM »
Fascists!
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #22379 on: February 26, 2024, 06:01:33 AM »
Give me a searchavle line.
There may be a canadian version that uses "OU" in the captions.


Because we fancy and like extra vowels in our flavour in our nieghbourhood.