Poll

Why do you support Donald Trump?

I don't want mexicans to come
22 (24.2%)
I want him to fight terrorism
13 (14.3%)
Free trade is bad
6 (6.6%)
He is the wild card we need
50 (54.9%)

Total Members Voted: 85

Why do you support donald trump

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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20610 on: July 10, 2021, 12:34:14 AM »

Lots of misinformation in there, like forgetting to mention that Fusion GPS was initially hired by Republicans, and Democrats started working with them a few months later. It's all a complicated mess, but calling it purely Democrat opposition research is just false.

It's also an outright lie that the FBI investigated the collusion solely on the Steel dossier. I could go on, but there are just far too many lies and disinformation in there to list.

But it's a good idea of how the average conservative thinks, or has been led to think.

I read that blog post,  it's 99% garbage and outright lies.   He missed the fact that Carter Page ( Trump's foreign policy advisor ) was under suspicion of being a Russian agent. He also forgot to mention that his campaign leader Manafort was constantly feeding confidential campaign information to a known Russian Agent Konstantin Viktorovich Kilimnik.

Kilimnik is still on the FBI wanted list, and there's a 250,000 reward on offer ...  https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/counterintelligence/konstantin-viktorovich-kilimnik

Anyone who has actually read the Mueller Report would understand that they had Trump dead to rights as far as obstruction goes, but chose not to prosecute and instead leave it to congress to impeach.  Congress dropped the ball on impeachment because of the Republican stranglehold on the Senate. 

Some future historian will get his pHD writing about the failure of the Senate to convict even when the evidence was overwhelming.


Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20611 on: July 10, 2021, 06:14:24 AM »
I read that blog post,  it's 99% garbage and outright lies.   He missed the fact that Carter Page ( Trump's foreign policy advisor ) was under suspicion of being a Russian agent. He also forgot to mention that his campaign leader Manafort was constantly feeding confidential campaign information to a known Russian Agent Konstantin Viktorovich Kilimnik.

Kilimnik is still on the FBI wanted list, and there's a 250,000 reward on offer ...  https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/counterintelligence/konstantin-viktorovich-kilimnik

Anyone who has actually read the Mueller Report would understand that they had Trump dead to rights as far as obstruction goes, but chose not to prosecute and instead leave it to congress to impeach.  Congress dropped the ball on impeachment because of the Republican stranglehold on the Senate. 

Some future historian will get his pHD writing about the failure of the Senate to convict even when the evidence was overwhelming.

It's why right wing propaganda is so insidious. They are very good at lying and have no shame in simply fabricating entire false histories and narratives.

Look at how many elected officials are still pushing "Trump won" when it's an outright blatant lie, and they know it. But they keep saying it, and eventually it starts to stick.

They learned how well it all works with the whole "Lost cause" garbage about the civil war, which they are still pushing hard.

Even liberals often fall for it. It's so much easier to make up 100 lies than to fact check and debunk them all.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20612 on: July 10, 2021, 06:44:07 AM »
"Liberals" fall for propaganda just as easily as anyone else. This is not surprising, if they didn't marketing wouldn't work.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20613 on: July 10, 2021, 06:58:54 AM »
"Liberals" fall for propaganda just as easily as anyone else. This is not surprising, if they didn't marketing wouldn't work.

The scale of the lies Republicans spew is the issue.

What lie on the level of "Trump won the 2020 election in a landslide" do liberals push that have, oh, even half of Democrats believing? I can't think of anything comparable. That's not even debatable, they have no evidence at all.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20614 on: July 10, 2021, 07:21:51 AM »
What lies do libs fall gor?
Liberal fall for "vote dem" as their only option for progressive change.

Dems are right.
Repubs are far right and some even on the z axis of bat shit crazy.
There is no left because they moved and redfined the center.

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20615 on: July 10, 2021, 07:39:41 AM »
What lies do libs fall gor?
Liberal fall for "vote dem" as their only option for progressive change.

Dems are right.
Repubs are far right and some even on the z axis of bat shit crazy.
There is no left because they moved and redfined the center.

While I agree about how far right the Democrats have shifted, I don't see that as a lie, let alone one as big as Trump having won the election.

Sure, I'd love to be able to vote for a real progressive but here in reality I have to choices, Democrat or Republican. And one of those is further to the left than the other. If I want any progressive policies at all, I don't really have a choice.

I had a choice in California, that was nice. But until ranked choice or some other reforms happen for the rest of the country and for federal elections, there isn't a good option.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20616 on: July 10, 2021, 08:43:20 AM »
Dont blame me    i voted for kodos


Also

Snow piercer




Americans dont have freedom.
Youre all lied to and pitted against each other by the corporate puppet masters.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20617 on: July 10, 2021, 11:50:29 AM »

Americans dont have freedom.
Youre all lied to and pitted against each other by the corporate puppet masters.

Truth.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Jamie

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20618 on: July 10, 2021, 12:11:14 PM »
Americans actually do have freedom.

What corporations figured out is that it's easier to buy and sell off politicians three times over for favorable legislation and manipulate the populace through advertising and marketing, news media, and social media than it is to really take our freedoms away.

We willingly give them up, getting caught up in stupid shit.
"Conspiracy theorists actually believe in the conspiracy because that is more comforting." - Alan Moore

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20619 on: July 10, 2021, 01:21:38 PM »
By essentially taking your freedom away...

So youre not free.
Youre locked into monoplized credit cards, oil and big pharma, and forced to believe its the best through monoplozed media propoganda and privatized education system.

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20620 on: July 10, 2021, 02:20:30 PM »
By essentially taking your freedom away...

So youre not free.
Youre locked into monoplized credit cards, oil and big pharma, and forced to believe its the best through monoplozed media propoganda and privatized education system.

That's like saying Americans are not free to eat healthy because we are bombarded by so many McDonalds commercials.

We are still free to eat healthy, that we choose not to do so doesn't mean we don't have that freedom.

Voting works the same, we can vote for people who will improve the country and the planet, but many choose not to.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20621 on: July 10, 2021, 05:26:19 PM »
Youre not free to eat healthy when your wages are subpar and fast food and junk food is subsized by your tax $ to be the only meal you can afford while wholefoods is selling 20$ cauliflowers.

So youre about as free as (ben sharipo incorrectly poonts out) to get a higherer paying entry job.
Take the only job in the town or starve.

Or as free as the ave consumer to find a new competitive ISP.

Or pay the actual cash cost and not the +4%  to account for credit card fees.

Or the two major parties are essentially the same homding power between them abd boxing out any other splinter groups.
Generating a false fear that "splitting the vote" will cause your "side" to lose more ground.


Your choices are predetermined.
We re all set to fail.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 05:28:12 PM by Themightykabool »

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Jamie

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20622 on: July 10, 2021, 06:31:12 PM »
I thought I was pessimistic.
"Conspiracy theorists actually believe in the conspiracy because that is more comforting." - Alan Moore

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20623 on: July 11, 2021, 09:13:19 AM »
Youre not free to eat healthy when your wages are subpar and fast food and junk food is subsized by your tax $ to be the only meal you can afford while wholefoods is selling 20$ cauliflowers.

You can eat healthy on a budget. It's pretty simple, don't shop at overpriced stores like Whole Foods.

It's like saying nobody can drive cars because a Lamborghini is too expensive.

So youre about as free as (ben sharipo incorrectly poonts out) to get a higherer paying entry job.
Take the only job in the town or starve.

Wot? Where in the entirety of human existence have people been 'free' to take whatever job they wanted?

If you're complaining that everyone doesn't get to do whatever they want whenever they want and get anything they want their entire lives and that makes them 'not free' then you need some counseling.

Or as free as the ave consumer to find a new competitive ISP.

Starlink.

Or pay the actual cash cost and not the +4%  to account for credit card fees.

And blind people are slaves because they are not free to avoid paying their share of the electric bill for lighting in shops they go to but don't need or want.

The horrors.  ::)

Or the two major parties are essentially the same homding power between them abd boxing out any other splinter groups.
Generating a false fear that "splitting the vote" will cause your "side" to lose more ground.

Ahh, the good old "both sides are the same" argument.

I seem to recall at one point one side went to war to continue slavery and the other, kind of did the other thing.

Your choices are predetermined.
We re all set to fail.

How uplifting.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20624 on: July 11, 2021, 09:18:13 AM »
I seem to recall at one point one side went to war to continue slavery and the other, kind of did the other thing.

Despite the liberal propaganda of today, the civil war was not about continuing or ending slavery

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20625 on: July 11, 2021, 09:43:40 AM »
I seem to recall at one point one side went to war to continue slavery and the other, kind of did the other thing.

Despite the liberal propaganda of today, the civil war was not about continuing or ending slavery

Wow.

I know you're not an American so I can't expect you to be well versed in our history.

But still.

I suppose you're a fan of the mythological "Lost Cause" propaganda.

Another example of how conspiracy theorists fall for other conspiracy theories easily.


Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20626 on: July 11, 2021, 09:56:12 AM »
I seem to recall at one point one side went to war to continue slavery and the other, kind of did the other thing.

Despite the liberal propaganda of today, the civil war was not about continuing or ending slavery
Really?? Nothing to do with it at all? 

Can I ask how much you've actually studied this?
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20627 on: July 11, 2021, 09:59:42 AM »
I seem to recall at one point one side went to war to continue slavery and the other, kind of did the other thing.

Despite the liberal propaganda of today, the civil war was not about continuing or ending slavery

Wow.

I know you're not an American so I can't expect you to be well versed in our history.

But still.

I suppose you're a fan of the mythological "Lost Cause" propaganda.

Another example of how conspiracy theorists fall for other conspiracy theories easily.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/10-facts-what-everyone-should-know-about-civil-war

Pretty sure the guys who wrote this are American
Quote
Fact #3: The issues of slavery and central power divided the United States.

Slavery was concentrated mainly in the southern states by the mid-19th century, where slaves were used as farm laborers, artisans, and house servants. Chattel slavery formed the backbone of the largely agrarian southern economy.  In the northern states, industry largely drove the economy. Many people in the north and the south believed that slavery was immoral and wrong, yet the institution remained, which created a large chasm on the political and social landscape. Southerners felt threatened by the pressure of northern politicians and “abolitionists,” who included the zealot John Brown, and claimed that the federal government had no power to end slavery, impose certain taxes, force infrastructure improvements, or influence western expansion against the wishes of the state governments. While some northerners felt that southern politicians wielded too much power in the House and the Senate and that they would never be appeased. Still, from the earliest days of the United States through the antebellum years, politicians on both sides of the major issues attempted to find a compromise that would avoid the splitting of the country, and ultimately avert a war. The Missouri Compromise, the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, and many others, all failed to steer the country away from secession and war. In the end, politicians on both sides of the aisle dug in their heels. Eleven states left the United States in the following order and formed the Confederate States of America: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee.

You make it sound like the war was over the morality of slavery. The North were such lovely progressives and the South were evil bastards

It seems to me that it was less about morality over whether slavery should continue or end and more about economics and power. Slavery was an issue but it wasn't the reason

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20628 on: July 11, 2021, 10:01:47 AM »

Pretty sure the guys who wrote this are American

Well then, it must be true.   ::)

I can see you've studied the subject in some depth...
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a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20629 on: July 11, 2021, 10:07:22 AM »

Pretty sure the guys who wrote this are American

Well then, it must be true.   ::)

I can see you've studied the subject in some depth...

And what is your study? The North and South went to war on the sole issue of whether to continue or abolish slavery? That was it? No other reasons at all?

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what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20630 on: July 11, 2021, 10:28:36 AM »
I seem to recall at one point one side went to war to continue slavery and the other, kind of did the other thing.

Despite the liberal propaganda of today, the civil war was not about continuing or ending slavery

Wow.

I know you're not an American so I can't expect you to be well versed in our history.

But still.

I suppose you're a fan of the mythological "Lost Cause" propaganda.

Another example of how conspiracy theorists fall for other conspiracy theories easily.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/10-facts-what-everyone-should-know-about-civil-war

Pretty sure the guys who wrote this are American
Quote
Fact #3: The issues of slavery and central power divided the United States.

Slavery was concentrated mainly in the southern states by the mid-19th century, where slaves were used as farm laborers, artisans, and house servants. Chattel slavery formed the backbone of the largely agrarian southern economy.  In the northern states, industry largely drove the economy. Many people in the north and the south believed that slavery was immoral and wrong, yet the institution remained, which created a large chasm on the political and social landscape. Southerners felt threatened by the pressure of northern politicians and “abolitionists,” who included the zealot John Brown, and claimed that the federal government had no power to end slavery, impose certain taxes, force infrastructure improvements, or influence western expansion against the wishes of the state governments. While some northerners felt that southern politicians wielded too much power in the House and the Senate and that they would never be appeased. Still, from the earliest days of the United States through the antebellum years, politicians on both sides of the major issues attempted to find a compromise that would avoid the splitting of the country, and ultimately avert a war. The Missouri Compromise, the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, and many others, all failed to steer the country away from secession and war. In the end, politicians on both sides of the aisle dug in their heels. Eleven states left the United States in the following order and formed the Confederate States of America: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee.

You make it sound like the war was over the morality of slavery. The North were such lovely progressives and the South were evil bastards

It seems to me that it was less about morality over whether slavery should continue or end and more about economics and power. Slavery was an issue but it wasn't the reason

Ignorant.

Nowhere in that quote does it support your assertion that "the civil war was not about continuing or ending slavery".

In fact it says the opposite. Nobody but racists trying to whitewash the Civil War says it wasn't about slavery.  It was in the declaration of war of every single Confederate state.  They stated explicitly that the war was over the right to own slaves.  Claiming it was about "the economy" when the entire economy was based on slavery is idiotic.

Even for you, this is a sick and sad argument. The Civil Was was about ending slavery, you really should do more than a quick Google search and pretend you know what you are talking about.

If you want I can recommend some good books on the history of the Civil War. I have over a dozen of them on my bookshelf. I've been to battlefields all over the country from Gettysburg to Vicksburg. This is a subject I know a great deal about and you are far, far out of your depth here. Not that it matters what I say, the history books and literal declarations of war and writings of people at the time  are all there for you to read, so you don't have to take my word for any of it.

I don't think you're racist but you have fallen for one of their biggest lies.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20631 on: July 11, 2021, 10:43:31 AM »
The civil war may have been about keeping slavery for the South, but the North (or Lincoln) didn't go to war on the sole issue of dismantling slavery. It takes 2 sides to go to war and they had different motivations for going there. For the North, the motivation was more about preserving the union, at least in the beginning. When we talk about why a country went to war with itself, we look at the initial motivations. Not the ending speeches

Perhaps you can find where Lincoln said before the war started that he was going to make sure slavery was abolished?

Because it looks to me like many states in the South (like South Carolina) wanted (or did) secede and for them the reason to secede was about ensuring they could keep their slaves. Obviously Lincoln was probably worried many in the South would follow suit, thus his motivation was preserving the union

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20632 on: July 11, 2021, 11:08:08 AM »
The civil war may have been about keeping slavery for the South, but the North (or Lincoln) didn't go to war on the sole issue of dismantling slavery. It takes 2 sides to go to war and they had different motivations for going there. For the North, the motivation was more about preserving the union, at least in the beginning. When we talk about why a country went to war with itself, we look at the initial motivations. Not the ending speeches

Perhaps you can find where Lincoln said before the war started that he was going to make sure slavery was abolished?

Because it looks to me like many states in the South (like South Carolina) wanted (or did) secede and for them the reason to secede was about ensuring they could keep their slaves. Obviously Lincoln was probably worried many in the South would follow suit, thus his motivation was preserving the union

Sneaky, but not sneaky enough!  This is what you said.

Despite the liberal propaganda of today, the civil war was not about continuing or ending slavery

You didn't say "The North" or Lincoln" there, you made a blanket statement  that the Civil War wasn't about "continuing or ending slavery".

So nice try to shift the goalposts. Almost clever too. But the declarations of war were the initial motivations, they are the literal beginning of the war. The Confederacy made no attempt at all to hide their reasons, and the reasons were slavery. Every single state said so. Every one.

I think you are so used to arguing semantics and being pedantic you completely fail to realize when maybe, you shouldn't. Maybe if you explored the subject a little deeper you might have a better appreciation for the politics of the time. Hint... Lincoln wasn't the only politician in the Unites States and the federal government banning slavery was only a matter of time.

Try reading about what others were saying. Plenty of people in the North were willing to fight over it before the start.

"If the Union must be dissolved, slavery is precisely the question upon which it ought to break." - John Quincy Adams, U.S. Secretary of State, 1820, privately commenting on Missouri Compromise of 1819

"The two systems [slave and free-labor] are...incompatible. They have never permanently existed together in one country, and they never can." - Republican Senator William H. Seward, 1858

"We are not one people. We are two peoples. We are a people for Freedom and a people for Slavery. Between the two, conflict is inevitable." - New York Tribune publisher Horace Greeley, 1854

And from the South just to make it clear,

"If it is right to preclude or abolish slavery in a Territory, why should it be allowed to remain in the States?... In spite of all disclaimers and professions there can be but one end to the submission by the South to the rule of a sectional Antislavery Government at Washington; and that end, directly or indirectly, must be the emancipation of the slaves of the South....the people of the non-slaveholding North are not and cannot be safe associates of the slaveholding South under a common Government." - South Carolina's secession convention, 1860




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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20633 on: July 11, 2021, 11:19:26 AM »
The liberals run the narrative that the war was waged to end slavery. It wasn't. To the victors, (The North), The war was about preserving the union. To the South, they were seceding because they wanted to keep slaves. Different motivations for going to war.

So depending on which side you were on, depended on why the war started. It was not (as propaganda makes out) 'Lincoln wanted to abolish slavery'.

You said

"I seem to recall at one point one side went to war to continue slavery and the other, kind of did the other thing."

When you say, "kind of did the other thing", it sounds like you say 'went to war to end slavery'. But that was not the motivation in reality.

The North, after defeating the South, could make that the narrative going forward. And why not? The North already had many states that were 'free', and he could use the victory to free them once and for all I guess because - union? Well, as free as they could be at the time - you guys even today have a lot of race relation issues.

Politics is weird though. At some point the repugs and dems did an ideological reversal. Lincoln was a republican. Seems to me that the repugs of the 1800s were more enlightened and progressive than the repugs of today

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What animal relates to your wife?

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20634 on: July 11, 2021, 11:37:36 AM »
True. Slavery was an issue. But the civil war was about more than that.

There was the states right to enslave people.

Individual liberty, specifically depriving it to make someone a slave.

Judeo Christian values like slavery.

Southern traditions and culture such as great food, abdundant varieties of agriculture and wildlife. Oh and also slavery.
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20635 on: July 11, 2021, 11:38:26 AM »
The liberals run the narrative that the war was waged to end slavery. It wasn't. To the victors, (The North), The war was about preserving the union. To the South, they were seceding because they wanted to keep slaves. Different motivations for going to war.

Bullshit.

The South went to war because the North was going to end slavery.

If all the North cared about was preserving the union, they would have happily passed a constitutional amendment to make slavery permanently legal in the eyes of the federal government like the South wanted.  They did no do this, they continued to push to end slavery, knowing it was going to come to conflict.

The North went to war to end slavery.

Did you even read my quotes?

They both had the same motivations. Slavery.

I have no idea what right wing propaganda you are reading, but it's probably some kind of Lost Cause narrative from the sounds of it.

Politics is weird though. At some point the repugs and dems did an ideological reversal. Lincoln was a republican. Seems to me that the repugs of the 1800s were more enlightened and progressive than the repugs of today

They just switched Democrat/Republican labels. Conservatives were for slavery, liberals were against it.

Read about Nixons Southern Strategy that caused all the racists to leave the Democrats and join the Republicans in the civil rights era. Before that Democrats were the racists.

But conservatives and liberals never changed their views. They just switched parties. If you want to talk about political views over history you need to use conservative and liberal terms, Republican and Democrat have changed meanings more than once.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20636 on: July 11, 2021, 11:41:54 AM »
The liberals run the narrative that the war was waged to end slavery. It wasn't. To the victors, (The North), The war was about preserving the union. To the South, they were seceding because they wanted to keep slaves. Different motivations for going to war.

Bullshit.

The South went to war because the North was going to end slavery.

If all the North cared about was preserving the union, they would have happily passed a constitutional amendment to make slavery permanently legal in the eyes of the federal government like the South wanted.  They did no do this, they continued to push to end slavery, knowing it was going to come to conflict.

The North went to war to end slavery.

Did you even read my quotes?

They both had the same motivations. Slavery.

I have no idea what right wing propaganda you are reading, but it's probably some kind of Lost Cause narrative from the sounds of it.

Politics is weird though. At some point the repugs and dems did an ideological reversal. Lincoln was a republican. Seems to me that the repugs of the 1800s were more enlightened and progressive than the repugs of today

They just switched Democrat/Republican labels. Conservatives were for slavery, liberals were against it.

Read about Nixons Southern Strategy that caused all the racists to leave the Democrats and join the Republicans in the civil rights era. Before that Democrats were the racists.

But conservatives and liberals never changed their views. They just switched parties. If you want to talk about political views over history you need to use conservative and liberal terms, Republican and Democrat have changed meanings more than once.

So from the Norths perspective you think thousands of soldiers killed their fellow Americans (and getting killed themselves) to 'free the black man?' That was their only goal? You're naive

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20637 on: July 11, 2021, 11:43:17 AM »
True. Slavery was an issue. But the civil war was about more than that.

There was the states right to enslave people.

Individual liberty, specifically depriving it to make someone a slave.

Judeo Christian values like slavery.

Southern traditions and culture such as great food, abdundant varieties of agriculture and wildlife. Oh and also slavery.

Good points, there were plenty of other Southern traditions that had nothing to do with slavery too.

The right to rape black people.

The right to breed black women like livestock.

The right to force black people to work.

The right to murder black people.

The right to take black children from their mothers and sell them.

The right to run their entire economy on forced labor.

Slavery wasn't even in the top 100 reasons for the civil war. 

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20638 on: July 11, 2021, 11:46:18 AM »
So from the Norths perspective you think thousands of soldiers killed their fellow Americans (and getting killed themselves) to 'free the black man?' That was their only goal? You're naive

There you go, putting words in my mouth. I never said ending slavery was the only goal anyone in the entire war had.

I said it was the reason the war started.  It was why the South declared it, and the reason the North let it happen.

Yes, there were lots of other conflicts and disagreements but NONE of them were big enough to cause a civil war. You can list dozens of North-South issues but not any of them were enough to start shooting over.

Slavery was.

Edit: But thinking about it I do think that thousands of northern solders did go to war to free the black man. Not all of them, but plenty were willing to put their lives on the line for a just cause.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 11:49:34 AM by JJA »

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #20639 on: July 11, 2021, 11:56:01 AM »
So from the Norths perspective you think thousands of soldiers killed their fellow Americans (and getting killed themselves) to 'free the black man?' That was their only goal? You're naive

There you go, putting words in my mouth. I never said ending slavery was the only goal anyone in the entire war had.

I said it was the reason the war started.  It was why the South declared it, and the reason the North let it happen.

Yes, there were lots of other conflicts and disagreements but NONE of them were big enough to cause a civil war. You can list dozens of North-South issues but not any of them were enough to start shooting over.

Slavery was.

Edit: But thinking about it I do think that thousands of northern solders did go to war to free the black man. Not all of them, but plenty were willing to put their lives on the line for a just cause.

Very sneaky! :P But that wasn't what you said initially. You said
"I seem to recall at one point one side went to war to continue slavery and the other, kind of did the other thing."

This narrative puts the idea in the head that the Northern states went to war to end slavery. Well it certainly looks to take a much higher moral ground then saying 'we went to war to prevent the breakup of the union - oh and yeah, we freed the slaves after'

Slavery was the hot topic for the South. It was not for the North

"Yes, there were lots of other conflicts and disagreements but NONE of them were big enough to cause a civil war." Oh you mean like seceding?



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