Poll

Why do you support Donald Trump?

I don't want mexicans to come
20 (26.7%)
I want him to fight terrorism
11 (14.7%)
Free trade is bad
5 (6.7%)
He is the wild card we need
39 (52%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Why do you support donald trump

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #360 on: May 04, 2017, 12:13:09 AM »
Can you link me to a source?

Still not 100% sure but let's try this one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?utm_term=.3046fff04321

There's the reporters obviously.  The FBI.  It's a few anonymous sources but that's not necessarily a deal breaker.  A foia request would eventually bring out any shenangins on that.   The Crown prince of Abu Dhabi, Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahan.  Direct quotes.  This bit of proof is interesting, everything a public official as high up as Trump has nearly every public statement recorded.  So if a news story uses it then you can search for it and see if the news story just packed it into a different story.  If a story that quoted him is a story that quoted someone else then that's a good sign that it's not fake news.  If it doesn't match any public record of his statements then there could be fake news.

Thanks man good post. Sorry if you think I'm a dick, I am but sometimes dicks f*ck assholes. ;D

I don't feel like Trump having a communication channel with Putin proves Putin rigged the election.

I'm not subscribed to WP couldn't read the article.

I've done my share of reading on it, my opinion atm is that it's too early to make up my mind either way.

I know every News station and outlet has told us the same thing, I don't consider this as strong evidence as most people do. I understand people will think I'm delusional for not believing my tv or the news, I'm ok with it.

The FBI won't let me see their files and evidence so I can't make an honest decision on it atm.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 12:15:18 AM by disputeone »
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #361 on: May 04, 2017, 12:32:42 AM »
But your point doesn't stand if you can't link any of it to the Russians.

Which we have no evidence for.

1. The FBI and various US Intelligence officials same people who told us about the WMD's confirmed asked us to believe Russian hacking/interference.

They did indeed.

I don't really feel like getting into the WMD topic right now. I know you automatically disbelieve anything any government agency says. That's beside the point though. The general public doesn't have the same level of distrust that you do, and there is no obvious reason for the Intelligence community to lie in this particular instance.

Quote
2. Trump believed it was the Russians.

Sorry, what?
http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-supports-julian-assanges-russian-hacking-claims-538424

Transcript and video of his news conference on 1/11: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/politics/trump-press-conference-transcript.html?_r=0

"Q: do you accept their opinion that Vladimir Putin ordered the hack of the DNC and the attempted hack of the RNC?...
Trump: ...As far as hacking, I think it was Russia."

The question was awkwardly combined with a question about the Steele dossier, so you have to read it carefully.

I thought he had admitted it earlier than this, but I can't find anything earlier than this right now, so perhaps I was wrong. Sorry if my timeline was a bit off. He apparently hadn't yet admitted that Russia hacked the DNC when he made made his comments in support of the hacking before the election.

Quote
3. Trump publicly stated his support for the hacking and encouraged Russia to do more.

Of course he did. I also support freedom of information. Hillary and Podesta said some disgusting things.

He also retweeted a Pepe. I'd like a citation for "asking Russia to do more".

I was referring to his request for Russia to "find the 30,000 emails that are missing". ()

Oh, and as for his statement in that video that he "has nothing to do with Putin, I've never spoken to him, I don't know anything about him"... " class="bbc_link" target="_blank">(direct contradiction from 2014).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 12:35:21 AM by TotesReptilian »

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #362 on: May 04, 2017, 12:34:09 AM »
Can you link me to a source?

Still not 100% sure but let's try this one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?utm_term=.3046fff04321

There's the reporters obviously.  The FBI.  It's a few anonymous sources but that's not necessarily a deal breaker.  A foia request would eventually bring out any shenangins on that.   The Crown prince of Abu Dhabi, Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahan.  Direct quotes.  This bit of proof is interesting, everything a public official as high up as Trump has nearly every public statement recorded.  So if a news story uses it then you can search for it and see if the news story just packed it into a different story.  If a story that quoted him is a story that quoted someone else then that's a good sign that it's not fake news.  If it doesn't match any public record of his statements then there could be fake news.

Thanks man good post. Sorry if you think I'm a dick, I am but sometimes dicks f*ck assholes. ;D

I don't feel like Trump having a communication channel with Putin proves Putin rigged the election.

I'm not subscribed to WP couldn't read the article.

I've done my share of reading on it, my opinion atm is that it's too early to make up my mind either way.

I know every News station and outlet has told us the same thing, I don't consider this as strong evidence as most people do. I understand people will think I'm delusional for not believing my tv or the news, I'm ok with it.

The FBI won't let me see their files and evidence so I can't make an honest decision on it atm.

No offense taken.  I was just trying to figure out your standard of reasonable trust in a source.  I've learned some new things in the process.

I agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions.  But there's enough here that I believe the full Bengazi treatment would be prudent.

You couldn't read it?  Crap, that's what I like to post the most since I have a subscription.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #363 on: May 04, 2017, 12:51:08 AM »
You couldn't read it?  Crap, that's what I like to post the most since I have a subscription.

It's probably because he is in Australia. I can read it just fine without a subscription. Try using a VPN disputeone.

Also, here is a pretty great graphic of many of the Trump/Russia connections: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/trump-russia/?utm_term=.6ab4da4e7ab7

I've done my share of reading on it, my opinion atm is that it's too early to make up my mind either way.

I agree that there isn't enough to jump to a definitive conclusion of collusion. But there is plenty there to warrant a thorough investigation.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #364 on: May 04, 2017, 12:54:25 AM »
I look at a news story the same way I look at an open source library. 

If I'm buying from a new vendor I need to build a little trust.  I'm going to carefully scrutinize what that library can do.  There's a lot that can be done to verify that a library is doing it's job.  The most thorough is to step through the entire thing and watch it's state.  As I get to know this vendor I'm going to relax my paranoia a little.  I'm not going to grill everything I buy down to the register level.  It would be a waste of my time.  This vendor might have a library with an issue occasionally.  So I'm open to the possibility that there's a flaw in there.  I work for a giant multinational company.  So I'm not someone a smart vendor would be dishonest with.

If my supervisors caught me stepping through every single line of code from a vendor they'd probably yell at me for wasting a lot of company time.

The MSM is kind of the same way.  I get to know their biases.  Then I can adjust for them.  Occasionally they botch something so I have to keep that in mind.  It would be nice to guarantee there were no mistakes in any news I've gotten but I'm certainly not going to contact every source for an article while filing foia requests to talk to the government officials.  Turning up something the media is saying that's dishonest that way would probably be less likely than winning the lottery.

Now it's my turn to offend you.  Do you put this level of scrutiny into every story you read?  Foia requests, calls to a senator and all?
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #365 on: May 04, 2017, 01:00:37 AM »
In case you can't read the NYTimes article either:

Quote
QUESTION: First of all, did the heads of the intelligence agencies provide you with the two-page summary of these unsubstantiated allegations? And secondly to that, on the broader picture, do you accept their opinion that Vladimir Putin ordered the hack of the DNC and the attempted hack of the RNC?

And if you do, how will that color your attempts to build a relationship with a leader who has been accused of committing an act of espionage against the United States?

TRUMP: OK, first of all, these readings as you know are confidential, classified. So, I’m not allowed to talk about what went on in a meeting.

And — but we had many witnesses in that meeting, many of them with us. And I will say, again, I think it’s a disgrace that information would be let out.

I saw the information; I read the information outside of that meeting. It’s all fake news. It’s phony stuff. It didn’t happen. And it was gotten by opponents of ours, as you know, because you reported it and so did many of the other people. It was a group of opponents that got together — sick people — and they put that crap together.

So, I will tell you that not within the meeting, but outside of the meeting, somebody released it. It should have never been — number one, shouldn’t have even entered paper. But it should have never have been released. But I read what was released and I think it’s a disgrace. I think it’s an absolute disgrace.

As far as hacking, I think it was Russia. But I think we also get hacked by other countries and other people. And I — I can say that you know when — when we lost 22 million names and everything else that was hacked recently, they didn’t make a big deal out of that. That was something that was extraordinary. That was probably China.

We had — we had much hacking going on. And one of the things we’re gonna do, we have some of the greatest computer minds anywhere in the world that we’ve assembled. You saw just a sample of it two weeks ago up here where we had the six top people in the world — they were never in the same room together as a group. And we’re gonna put those minds together and we’re going to form a defense.

TRUMP: And I have to say this also, the Democratic National Committee was totally open to be hacked. They did a very poor job. They could’ve had hacking defense, which we had.

And I will give Reince Priebus credit, because when Reince saw what was happening in the world and with this country, he went out and went to various firms and ordered a very, very strong hacking defense.

And they tried to hack the Republican National Committee and they were unable to break through.

We have to do that for our country. It’s very important.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... just to the last part of that question (inaudible) how could all of this potentially color your attempts to build a better relationship with President Putin?

TRUMP: Well, you know, President Putin and Russia put out a statement today that this fake news was indeed fake news. They said it totally never happened.

Now, somebody would say, “Oh, of course he’s gonna say that.”

I respected the fact that he said that.

And I — I’ll be honest, I think if he did have something, they would’ve released it; they would’ve been glad to release it.

I think, frankly, had they broken into the Republican National Committee, I think they would’ve released it just like they did about Hillary and all of the horrible things that her people, like Mr. Podesta, said about her. I mean what he said about her was horrible.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #366 on: May 04, 2017, 01:12:37 AM »
But your point doesn't stand if you can't link any of it to the Russians.

Which we have no evidence for.

1. The FBI and various US Intelligence officials same people who told us about the WMD's confirmed asked us to believe Russian hacking/interference.

They did indeed.

I don't really feel like getting into the WMD topic right now. I know you automatically disbelieve anything any government agency says. That's beside the point though. The general public doesn't have the same level of distrust that you do, and there is no obvious reason for the Intelligence community to lie in this particular instance.

Automatically question ==/== automatically disbelieve.

I am well aware the general public has great trust in the MSM narrative, very well aware.

It's not to say I have to swallow the pills they're trying to force down our throats.

According to the MSM Russia's "hacking" is a fact, when at best it's educated speculation, The line between actual facts and the official narrative is getting irreversibly blurred imo.

Which concerns me.

In case you can't read the NYTimes article either:

Quote
QUESTION: First of all, did the heads of the intelligence agencies provide you with the two-page summary of these unsubstantiated allegations? And secondly to that, on the broader picture, do you accept their opinion that Vladimir Putin ordered the hack of the DNC and the attempted hack of the RNC?

Bolding for emphasis, if they had a smoking gun I'd hope we could see it.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 01:19:36 AM by disputeone »
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #367 on: May 04, 2017, 01:29:05 AM »
All this dickering about whether the Intelligence Community is trustworthy aside... I just want to reiterate my original point:

The numerous suspicious connections between Trump and Russia, including the alleged Russian interference in the election for the benefit of Trump are cause for concern, and is one of the many reasons that people are protesting. Keep in mind that the Russia connections were only a small part of that list of reasons.

Shifter's complaints that people are protesting without cause are completely off base.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #368 on: May 04, 2017, 03:55:48 AM »
I've done my share of reading on it, my opinion atm is that it's too early to make up my mind either way.

I agree that there isn't enough to jump to a definitive conclusion of collusion. But there is plenty there to warrant a thorough investigation.

100% agreed. How could you think I wouldn't support an open and honest investigation into it?

All this dickering about whether the Intelligence Community is trustworthy aside... I just want to reiterate my original point:

The numerous suspicious connections between Trump and Russia, including the alleged Russian interference in the election for the benefit of Trump are cause for concern, and is one of the many reasons that people are protesting. Keep in mind that the Russia connections were only a small part of that list of reasons.

That's fair.

Shifter's complaints that people are protesting without cause are completely off base.

There were some people protesting for the sake of protesting however.

Also all those people dressed as vaginas was a little much for my tastes but hey.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 03:57:37 AM by disputeone »
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #369 on: May 04, 2017, 09:03:19 AM »
Trumpcare 2.0

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/us/politics/what-to-watch-for-nail-biter-on-repealing-health-law.html

Problem:  The bill leaves about 22 million people without insurance while giving massive tax cuts to the rich according to every analyst.

Solution: Vote on it again before anybody, including the CBO or even congress, has had a chance to read it.

win/win.  Unless you're not a billionaire. 
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #370 on: May 04, 2017, 12:32:53 PM »
He just made Paul Ryan pee his pants a little bit.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #371 on: May 04, 2017, 12:33:31 PM »
Yep.  It's a glorious day to be a billionaire.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #372 on: May 04, 2017, 12:58:59 PM »
And it passed. Seriously, wtf is wrong with these people?

Edit:
From the CBO analysis of the original AHCA (sense they didn't bother waiting for an analysis of the new version):

Federal deficit would be reduced by $337 billion over the next 10 years.
Number of uninsured would increase by 24 million over the next 10 years. (for context, that's the population of Australia)

$337 billion / 24 million = $14,000 per person.

Now we know how much a person's life is worth to the Republicans who passed this bill.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 01:11:14 PM by TotesReptilian »

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #373 on: May 04, 2017, 01:08:00 PM »
We'll have to see how this plays out in the senate.  It's a much tougher sell there.  If there's a silver lining it's that this may come back to haunt house republicans in 2018.  But for now we're going to have to put up with Trump and Ryan partying down with a sumptuous banquet of Trump brand steaks and wine.

And just to add insult to injury, it's a great day for the American Taliban also.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/05/04/trump-s-religious-liberty-executive-order-is-a-triumph-of-fake-news
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #374 on: May 04, 2017, 03:41:30 PM »
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #375 on: May 04, 2017, 04:17:36 PM »


Pretty accurate summary of our foreign policy for the last 15 years.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #376 on: May 04, 2017, 05:16:28 PM »
Now it's my turn to offend you.  Do you put this level of scrutiny into every story you read?  Foia requests, calls to a senator and all?

That's not offensive lol.

Of course. Not stories that I don't believe are important or worth checking.

I've been rejected from quite a few FOIA applications. Three in the last month actually.

It's probably part of my radical political ideologies, I wholeheartedly believe the people should be given all the information the goverment is privy to.

Quote from: JFK
The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.

But I do ask every publisher, every editor, and every newsman in the nation to reexamine his own standards, and to recognize the nature of our country's peril. In time of war, the government and the press have customarily joined in an effort based largely on self-discipline, to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy. In time of "clear and present danger," the courts have held that even the privileged rights of the First Amendment must yield to the public's need for national security.

Today no war has been declared--and however fierce the struggle may be, it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired.

Also just to further clarify my opinion on the MSM.

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #377 on: May 06, 2017, 10:58:03 AM »


What do you think the chances are that Trump doesn't know that this bill also has to pass the Senate before it becomes law?

I'm picturing a party where Trump is high fiving everyone. While Paul Ryan keeps shooshing everyone that tries to tell Trump this has to pass the Senate next.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #378 on: May 06, 2017, 12:04:45 PM »
I don't think he even cares. He just wanted to win something.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #379 on: May 06, 2017, 03:36:11 PM »
I don't think he even cares. He just wanted to win something.

On the bright side, he does actually know that it still needs to pass the Senate. " class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Proof at 4:28. I seriously doubt he actually knows what's in the bill though. Has anyone ever heard him say anything specific about the bill other than how great it is?

Watch that entire speech though. It's almost nauseating watching them pat each other on the back for this train wreck.

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #380 on: May 06, 2017, 03:47:25 PM »
It's a great bill. It's the best bill. He had the best people working on it. They're great! They really are. And the thing is we need good people like them. That is what was wrong with the previous administrations you know? People don't know it but this is actually a difficult problem to solve. He's here to fix all that and also fix immigration BTW. That's why we need a wall. So yeah, it's great bill. One of the best.

What more do ya need-ta know? ;D

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #381 on: May 06, 2017, 04:27:46 PM »
I don't think he even cares. He just wanted to win something.

It's almost nauseating watching them pat each other on the back for this train wreck.

That's one way of describing it.  Personally I'm leaning towards "fucking disgusting".  I've got family that are going to be hurt by this if it goes through.  Family that voted for Trump. 

I think I can feel my brain trying to give itself dementia as a self defense mechanism.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #382 on: May 06, 2017, 04:31:45 PM »
Careful, that is probably gonna be a pre-existing condition.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #383 on: May 07, 2017, 11:25:05 AM »
Getting back to the original question of this thread... ladies, gents, and wood sprites, we finally have our answer:



May God have mercy on us all.

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I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #385 on: May 07, 2017, 04:35:33 PM »
Bill Nye the anti science engineer.



Backflips under social pressure.

Edit. Too funny not to imbed



Lol nice one SCG.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #386 on: May 07, 2017, 04:41:07 PM »
I think maybe society is about to hit peak gendershit.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #387 on: May 07, 2017, 04:55:03 PM »
Facts are bound by popular opinion these days.

XX
XY

Science shouldn't bow to the TV imo.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #388 on: May 07, 2017, 05:25:00 PM »
Facts are bound by popular opinion these days.

XX
XY

Science shouldn't bow to the TV imo.

Let's not pretend like it's as simple as XX/XY though. Gender obviously has basis in biology, but so do the conditions of transgender people. We can tolerate/respect those with nontraditional genders/orientations while not actively promoting sexual deviance/irresponsibility or blinding ourselves to biological reality, like in the video.

Also, some basic artistic competency would help. My ears and my eyes... *whimper*

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #389 on: May 07, 2017, 05:36:21 PM »
Opinion doesn't change facts imo.

It is as simple as XX and XY for gender.

Some people identify as females even though they are born male, let's not pretend they were always female.

That's just incorrect.

We can tolerate/respect those with nontraditional genders/orientations while not actively promoting sexual deviance/irresponsibility or blinding ourselves to biological reality, like in the video.

Tolerate doesn't mean we have to change science or change reality for them.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 05:37:58 PM by disputeone »
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160