Poll

Why do you support Donald Trump?

I don't want mexicans to come
20 (26.7%)
I want him to fight terrorism
11 (14.7%)
Free trade is bad
5 (6.7%)
He is the wild card we need
39 (52%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Why do you support donald trump

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Shifter

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #330 on: May 03, 2017, 04:41:20 PM »
Then both parties will have someone new to choose from.

Which can only better than the choice they had in the last election.

This is one take-away lesson I hope both parties come to realise and do better next round. (Not hard to do better, but hope they can do MUCH better). Hopefully the next candidates are one of high calibre and intelligence. Not just some political spin artist funded on the back of Saudi Arabia or some other foreign power or huge conglomerate. The public notices and it doesn't approve. Little they can do in a 2 horse race. I don't have a lot of faith in politics of any persuasion though or that lessons will be learnt. In Australia the top job has just been a game of musical chairs on both sides. It's been a joke that has near paralysed our countries progress and prosperity for the last 7 years.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #331 on: May 03, 2017, 04:45:06 PM »
Am I not allowed to be concerned for the American people? If idgaf then I wouldn't worry about what's happenings over there.

I appreciate your concern, but the thing that you keep insisting is a serious problem isn't actually a serious problem as far as I can tell. It's sort of perplexing. Why do you think it is a serious problem? Who is telling you it is a serious problem?

Yes, occasionally a group of asshole anarchists get together and smash a few windows and throw a few rocks. Maybe start a brawl or two. The police come by and arrest a few of them, to the delight of the general public. This has little to do with most anti-Trump protests, the vast majority of which have been peaceful.

I'd probably just say something like this.
I generally just like to imagine you are run by a parliament of 'roos and crocs.

We prefer donkeys and elephants on this side of the world. You are welcome to try. It's fun! " class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Or dogs for the Supreme Court.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 04:50:52 PM by TotesReptilian »

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #332 on: May 03, 2017, 05:11:01 PM »
We are still slaves of the emu after the great emu war.

If my emu overlords are reading I think they are great.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

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Shifter

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #333 on: May 03, 2017, 05:12:08 PM »
Why were they protesting at all on the night he won the election? He hadn't taken up office yet and there was nothing he had done yet to 'hold him to account'. It really was an anti democratic case of 'sour grapes'

I can get why you would protest awful and ill conceived decisions or illegal activity. But to protest because your side lost is ridiculous and anti democratic. It set the tone and revealed their true agenda and is now hard for them to take seriously. Are they protesting because they don't like Trump or are they protesting for legitimate concerns? The lines have now been blurred

The media certainly loves to fan the flames because its great click bait. Over here the media is very lop sided and almost praises protesters that turn ugly as if they are noble and 'fighting the good fight' and find a way to make it Trumps fault.


I believe you could also thank the media for Trumps win. People are fed up of being 'told' how to think. You can hardly find an organisation that reports unbiased journalism these days. In fact, I don't think there are any journalists left. Most 'news' are now opinion pieces.

The other way the media helped was essentially 'telling' everyone that the election was in the bag for Hillary and that Trump had zero chance of winning. This would only make Hillarys job in trying to get her supporters out to vote (why should they, she's a sure win) and rally Trump voters to vote for him.

Those celebrities throwing themselves at Hillary did not do her any favours to help getting her voter base to the polls.

The media would do well next time to stay unbiased, report only on the verified facts and stay out of it. Celebrities should probably just stay out of politics all together.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #334 on: May 03, 2017, 05:17:17 PM »
I believe you could also thank the media for Trumps win. People are fed up of being 'told' how to think. You can hardly find an organisation that reports unbiased journalism these days. In fact, I don't think there are any journalists left. Most 'news' are now opinion pieces.

The other way the media helped was essentially 'telling' everyone that the election was in the bag for Hillary and that Trump had zero chance of winning. This would only make Hillarys job in trying to get her supporters out to vote (why should they, she's a sure win) and rally Trump voters to vote for him.

Those celebrities throwing themselves at Hillary did not do her any favours to help getting her voter base to the polls.

The media would do well next time to stay unbiased, report only on the verified facts and stay out of it. Celebrities should probably just stay out of politics all together.

100 this, they wouldn't have incurred the wrath of kek either.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #335 on: May 03, 2017, 05:29:01 PM »
Protesting is not "anti democratic", also there was already plenty to hold him to account for. He still hadn't divested from his business interests. He still hadn't kept his promise to release his tax information.

I realize celebrities can be annoying, but they are citizens. They have a right to free speech.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Shifter

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #336 on: May 03, 2017, 05:46:07 PM »
I didn't suggest there should be a law against the celebrities talking about it, just that if they want their preferred candidate to win, that their chances would be better if they didn't get so invested in it. You had the likes of Amy Schumer getting a republican voter on stage for the sheer point of ridiculing him and demonising him based on who he would vote for. Somewhere in democracy you would think the people would be free to vote for whomever they wished without having to endure scorn or ridicule from their peers.

You also had Madonna promising a blow job to everyone who would vote for Hillary. Real classy (so much for Michelle Obamas 'when they go low, we go high' speech. Madonnas went below the belt - literally lol

These celebrities (some so uber wealthy they could never relate to the lives that the '99%' endure) thought they were in touch with the people. I guess given their 'anger' and some expletive ridden rants at the voters after the election that it shows they have not learned just how out of touch they are and that they are not as popular as they think.

I'm still wondering when they are going to move to Canada as promised. (maybe a lot were hoping they would so voted for Trump to make sure lol)

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #337 on: May 03, 2017, 06:25:19 PM »
Australia is full. Canada is the place to be :).
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #338 on: May 03, 2017, 06:32:13 PM »
Well, the best thing to do is ridicule the celebrities when they do something stupid, just like anybody else.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #339 on: May 03, 2017, 09:32:54 PM »
Why were they protesting at all on the night he won the election? He hadn't taken up office yet and there was nothing he had done yet to 'hold him to account'. It really was an anti democratic case of 'sour grapes'

He hadn't done anything yet as president, but he had done plenty as a candidate and as a person. There was already tons to protest. Here's a list.

1. Lying constantly, pushing made up facts, pushing baseless conspiracy theories (birtherism et al).
2. Supporting war crimes (torture, killing families of terrorists)
3. Conflicts of interest. Still has not divested from business interests or released tax returns, despite promises.
4. Attitude towards immigrants. Promises of a border wall.
5. Attitude towards women.
6. Attitude towards science and the environment. Assertion that climate change is a "Chinese hoax".
7. General meanness towards anyone who said something he doesn't like.
8. Support of Russian interference in elections. Possibly even collusion (though still not proven).

These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure I missed some. I can flesh them out with specifics on request.

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I can get why you would protest awful and ill conceived decisions or illegal activity. But to protest because your side lost is ridiculous and anti democratic.

Yes, that is exactly what people are protesting: awful and ill conceived decisions and possibly illegal activity. They are not protesting just because "their side" lost. See above list.

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It set the tone and revealed their true agenda and is now hard for them to take seriously. Are they protesting because they don't like Trump or are they protesting for legitimate concerns? The lines have now been blurred

legitimate concerns. See above list.

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The media certainly loves to fan the flames because its great click bait. Over here the media is very lop sided and almost praises protesters that turn ugly as if they are noble and 'fighting the good fight' and find a way to make it Trumps fault.

I believe you could also thank the media for Trumps win. People are fed up of being 'told' how to think. You can hardly find an organisation that reports unbiased journalism these days. In fact, I don't think there are any journalists left. Most 'news' are now opinion pieces.

Try these: apnews.com, reuters.com, c-span.org

Quote
The other way the media helped was essentially 'telling' everyone that the election was in the bag for Hillary and that Trump had zero chance of winning. This would only make Hillarys job in trying to get her supporters out to vote (why should they, she's a sure win) and rally Trump voters to vote for him.

Those celebrities throwing themselves at Hillary did not do her any favours to help getting her voter base to the polls.

The media would do well next time to stay unbiased, report only on the verified facts and stay out of it. Celebrities should probably just stay out of politics all together.

I agree that the media coverage in general was awful and bears part of the blame. Celebrities can speak for themselves. Some are smart and some are dumb. They should be judged on an individual basis.

You also had Madonna promising a blow job to everyone who would vote for Hillary. Real classy (so much for Michelle Obamas 'when they go low, we go high' speech. Madonnas went below the belt - literally lol

I seriously doubt Michelle Obama had anything to do with Madonna's comments. You know that the "left" isn't one giant monolithic organism, right? Michelle and Madonna are in fact two different people.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #340 on: May 03, 2017, 09:35:54 PM »
You know there is still no proof for Russia hacking the paper ballots right?

Except the news?

Also I'm a left wing libertarian according to www.politicalcompass.org/test.
Just fyi.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 09:38:00 PM by disputeone »
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #341 on: May 03, 2017, 09:42:26 PM »
You know there is still no proof for Russia hacking the paper ballots right?

Except the news?

I did not claim Russia hacked the paper ballots. I have never seen any news source claim Russia hacked the paper ballots. What on earth are you talking about?

Quote
Also I'm a left wing libertarian according to www.politicalcompass.org/test.
Just fyi.

Neat.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #342 on: May 03, 2017, 09:43:04 PM »
Can you be more specific on your claim of "Russian interference?"
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #343 on: May 03, 2017, 10:02:56 PM »
Can you be more specific on your claim of "Russian interference?"

Sure. The Russians conducted a campaign to influence the election by spamming social media with fake news stories against Hillary and trolls that pushed these stories and promoted support for Trump. They also hacked a DNC email database and gave the emails to Wikileaks. Trump publicly supported the email hacking/leaks. Definitive collusion between Trump and Russia has not been proven yet.

No one of significance has claimed that the actual ballots were tampered with. Well... except for Trump himself. Another one of his baseless conspiracy theories.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #344 on: May 03, 2017, 10:20:19 PM »
The password to the account was "password". Deserved it.
4chan had more to do with the fake news than the Russians. Also the "hacking" and wikileaks.

P.S assange is dead imo.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #345 on: May 03, 2017, 10:28:04 PM »
The password to the account was "password". Deserved it.
4chan had more to do with the fake news than the Russians. Also the "hacking" and wikileaks.

P.S assange is dead imo.

I have no doubt 4chan did their fair share of trolling. And my point stands, regardless if they "deserved it" or not.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #346 on: May 03, 2017, 10:29:12 PM »
But your point doesn't stand if you can't link any of it to the Russians.

Which we have no evidence for.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #347 on: May 03, 2017, 10:42:48 PM »
But your point doesn't stand if you can't link any of it to the Russians.

Which we have no evidence for.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/trump-russia/?utm_term=.483b936d17cf

There's evidence.  Not quite enough to motivate a Republican government to act against him but it's there.  Although any collusion is probably not from the top of Trump's campaign on down.  It's probably more from the bottom up.  This is actually not the first time Russia has interfered in our elections. 

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-adlai-stevenson-stopped-russian-interference-1960-election-180961681/
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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #348 on: May 03, 2017, 10:48:29 PM »
There's MSM news articles*

Agreed.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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Shifter

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #349 on: May 03, 2017, 10:50:20 PM »
Can you be more specific on your claim of "Russian interference?"

Sure. The Russians conducted a campaign to influence the election by spamming social media with fake news stories against Hillary and trolls that pushed these stories and promoted support for Trump. They also hacked a DNC email database and gave the emails to Wikileaks. Trump publicly supported the email hacking/leaks. Definitive collusion between Trump and Russia has not been proven yet.

No one of significance has claimed that the actual ballots were tampered with. Well... except for Trump himself. Another one of his baseless conspiracy theories.

MSM did exactly the same thing, just against Trump. There was plenty of fake news about both candidates going around except Trump had the fake news pushed by every single media outlet and social media platform. Any fakeness about Hillary was limited to social media platforms spread amongst mainly like minded people. I think trump drew the shorter straw here.

America certainly has its share in interfering in foreign countries elections. Why wouldn't foreign countries want to gear themselves toward a future leader they can work with? I personally cant see the problem with America and Russia having a warmer relationship myself. Would you rather revisit a cold war era? Who cares is Trump wants to be best buds with Vlad

I would call Saudi Arabia throwing tens of millions of dollars to the 'Clinton Foundation' some form of interference or collusion. The Saudi and other gulf states are among the most misogynistic, homophobic human rights abusers on the planet. They wanted Hillary as President and it was allowed for them to interfere simply because Hillary is "representing" the left. I put 'representing' in quotes because what Clinton says and what she does and who she supports is anything BUT the left of politics. On one hand she will advocate LGBTI rights, and on the other take money from governments who commit some of the worst human rights abuses on the planet. Does anyone seriously think Saudi Arabia donated the money out of the goodness of their heart? If Clinton became president, they would want a return on their investment. I think Russia makes a better, less dangerous and less strange bedfellow than Saudi, but hey, if Saudi (ISIS with a badge) is your idea of a worthy friend...... that's on your conscious



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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #350 on: May 03, 2017, 10:52:15 PM »
Someone does more research than watching T.V.

Based.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #351 on: May 03, 2017, 10:53:11 PM »
But your point doesn't stand if you can't link any of it to the Russians.

Which we have no evidence for.

1. The FBI and various US Intelligence officials confirmed Russian hacking/interference.
2. Trump believed it was the Russians.
3. Trump publicly stated his support for the hacking and encouraged Russia to do more.

Combine this with the long list of suspicious connections between the Trump campaign and Russia, Trump's suspiciously chummy attitude towards Putin, and more recent Republican interference with the Trump/Russia investigation.

My point was that this is a legitimate concern, and a legitimate cause for protest.

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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #352 on: May 03, 2017, 10:54:10 PM »
Circumstantial and speculative at best.
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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #353 on: May 03, 2017, 11:02:45 PM »
But your point doesn't stand if you can't link any of it to the Russians.

Which we have no evidence for.

1. The FBI and various US Intelligence officials same people who told us about the WMD's confirmed asked us to believe Russian hacking/interference.

They did indeed.

2. Trump believed it was the Russians.

Sorry, what?
http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-supports-julian-assanges-russian-hacking-claims-538424

3. Trump publicly stated his support for the hacking and encouraged Russia to do more.

Of course he did. I also support freedom of information. Hillary and Podesta said some disgusting things.

He also retweeted a Pepe. I'd like a citation for "asking Russia to do more".
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #354 on: May 03, 2017, 11:10:35 PM »
There's MSM news articles*

Agreed.

MSM... alright.  Which news sources would you regard as trustworthy?
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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #355 on: May 03, 2017, 11:16:07 PM »
There's MSM news articles*

Agreed.

MSM... alright.  Which news sources would you regard as trustworthy?

I just mean they told us what happened without providing their evidence. Even in that link provided there is only speculation.

I'd believe anyone who can show enough evidence to justify their position.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #356 on: May 03, 2017, 11:18:49 PM »
Can you be more specific on your claim of "Russian interference?"

Sure. The Russians conducted a campaign to influence the election by spamming social media with fake news stories against Hillary and trolls that pushed these stories and promoted support for Trump. They also hacked a DNC email database and gave the emails to Wikileaks. Trump publicly supported the email hacking/leaks. Definitive collusion between Trump and Russia has not been proven yet.

No one of significance has claimed that the actual ballots were tampered with. Well... except for Trump himself. Another one of his baseless conspiracy theories.

MSM did exactly the same thing, just against Trump. There was plenty of fake news about both candidates going around except Trump had the fake news pushed by every single media outlet and social media platform. Any fakeness about Hillary was limited to social media platforms spread amongst mainly like minded people. I think trump drew the shorter straw here.

1. I don't think this is even close to being true, but I don't really feel like taking the time to debunk it, because...
2. Even if it is true (which I seriously doubt), it doesn't negate my original point. My point was that Trump's support of Russian interference was a valid point of protest.

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America certainly has its share in interfering in foreign countries elections.

No argument here. We have done our fair share of shady shenanigans.

Quote
Why wouldn't foreign countries want to gear themselves toward a future leader they can work with? I personally cant see the problem with America and Russia having a warmer relationship myself. Would you rather revisit a cold war era? Who cares is Trump wants to be best buds with Vlad

You are completely missing the point.

1. Yes, of course we can expect Russia to act in its best interest using subterfuge. This isn't at all surprsing.
2. Yes, good relations with other countries are good.

The problem comes when your leader is being propped up by a foreign power. There is a good chance that that leader either doesn't have the best nation's best interest at heart, or can be easily manipulated by the foreign power that paved his way to power. There is concern that Russia has compromising material on Trump, or that Trump made an illegal deal with Russia. This has not been proven yet, but the fact that Trump publicly supported foreign interference with his political opponent is a huge cause for concern.

Quote
I would call Saudi Arabia throwing tens of millions of dollars to the 'Clinton Foundation' some form of interference or collusion. The Saudi and other gulf states are among the most misogynistic, homophobic human rights abusers on the planet. They wanted Hillary as President and it was allowed for them to interfere simply because Hillary is "representing" the left. I put 'representing' in quotes because what Clinton says and what she does and who she supports is anything BUT the left of politics. On one hand she will advocate LGBTI rights, and on the other take money from governments who commit some of the worst human rights abuses on the planet. Does anyone seriously think Saudi Arabia donated the money out of the goodness of their heart? If Clinton became president, they would want a return on their investment. I think Russia makes a better, less dangerous and less strange bedfellow than Saudi, but hey, if Saudi (ISIS with a badge) is your idea of a worthy friend...... that's on your conscious

Guess how you know about those Saudi donations? She published a list of donors for transparency purposes. Guess who still hasn't done anything to alleviate conflict-of-interest concerns? Trump.

If Clinton were president, and there were suspicious connections between her and Saudi Arabia, I would be quite supportive of you calling her out for it. However, Clinton isn't the president, and complaining about her does nothing to alleviate concerns about Trump.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #357 on: May 03, 2017, 11:31:07 PM »
There's MSM news articles*

Agreed.

MSM... alright.  Which news sources would you regard as trustworthy?

I just mean they told us what happened without providing their evidence. Even in that link provided there is only speculation.

I'd believe anyone who can show enough evidence to justify their position.

I'm seeing names, credits, links to sources, sworn testimony.  The reports are all roughly similar across other sources too.

Is this insufficient?
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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #358 on: May 03, 2017, 11:42:52 PM »
Can you link me to a source?
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #359 on: May 04, 2017, 12:04:39 AM »
Can you link me to a source?

Still not 100% sure but let's try this one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?utm_term=.3046fff04321

There's the reporters obviously.  The FBI.  It's a few anonymous sources but that's not necessarily a deal breaker.  A foia request would eventually bring out any shenangins on that.   The Crown prince of Abu Dhabi, Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahan.  Direct quotes.  This bit of proof is interesting, everything a public official as high up as Trump has nearly every public statement recorded.  So if a news story uses it then you can search for it and see if the news story just packed it into a different story.  If a story that quoted him is a story that quoted someone else then that's a good sign that it's not fake news.  If it doesn't match any public record of his statements then there could be fake news.
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