Poll

Why do you support Donald Trump?

I don't want mexicans to come
22 (24.2%)
I want him to fight terrorism
13 (14.3%)
Free trade is bad
6 (6.6%)
He is the wild card we need
50 (54.9%)

Total Members Voted: 85

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Why do you support donald trump

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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #150 on: March 31, 2017, 05:49:55 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on March 31, 2017, 05:24:28 PM
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 05:22:08 PM
Quote from: disputeone on March 31, 2017, 04:49:27 PM
It's fine to dislike him, everyone has different opinions.

You sure do love your TV Totes.
I don't have evidence (TV didn't tell us.)

http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/

You made a specific accusation against Hillary, and nothing on the site you linked backs up that accusation that I can find. Be more specific.

That we would be heading towards war with Russia?

That "we would be quickly heading towards a war with Russia for hacking americas paper ballots".
That "She was involved every step of the way" with 9/11 and the Iraq war.

Quote
I can't link to a TV saying that, no, sorry.

Why do you keep bringing TV into this? When have I ever specified a preference for TV sources? Use whatever source you want. We can debate the reliability of the source afterwards.

Quote from: disputeone on March 31, 2017, 05:28:22 PM
However this, imo, is pretty close.



Again, that video doesn't support any of the accusations you have made thus far. In the future, please link to the exact time in the video that supports your argument. Or directly quote the video. I don't want to sit through a long video only to find out that it isn't even related to the accusation you made.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #151 on: March 31, 2017, 06:05:16 PM »
It was clear in Hillary's tone that relations would have plummeted with Russia...

Stupid remarks and sanctions is what leads to war (world war two original catalyst was support poles..Very stupid).

The dipshits in Washington have forgotten this..When is the last time we fought an actual enemy?? World war 2.... So Washington is fat and cocky...Not to mention they could give a fuck about the American people, so who cares about sending your populous out to die for you. Doesn't effect them..

There will be a day they get us into an actual war with a competent enemy... We may still win, but at what cost?

Hillary is one of the biggest violators in this...Thus why I would have never voted for her..(there are many other reasons, such as the ignorant regressive left she is a proprietor for, fiscal irresponsibility..But my main reason was our safety.)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 06:07:42 PM by Babyhighspeed »
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #152 on: March 31, 2017, 06:22:55 PM »
Quote from: Babyhighspeed on March 31, 2017, 06:05:16 PM
It was clear in Hillary's tone that relations would have plummeted with Russia...

That's not the accusation that disputeone made though. But to address your point, wasn't it obvious by Trump's tone that relations would plummet with many other nations besides Russia? Mexico, Germany, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and perhaps China and the rest of Europe.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #153 on: March 31, 2017, 06:38:23 PM »
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 06:22:55 PM
Quote from: Babyhighspeed on March 31, 2017, 06:05:16 PM
It was clear in Hillary's tone that relations would have plummeted with Russia...

That's not the accusation that disputeone made though. But to address your point, wasn't it obvious by Trump's tone that relations would plummet with many other nations besides Russia? Mexico, Germany, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and perhaps China and the rest of Europe.

There was a difference in tone. The only things Trump sent to other countries was he thought trade was unfair, and they weren't pitching in as they should in NATO.

Even in his inaugural Address he said he wanted good relationships with these counties, he was just going to take America first. I don't find that wrong, these countries are taking themselves first. Why do we have to be the ones sucking it up? Not like we have a money tree or an infinite populous.

Hillary, completely different tonality. Very damaging, accusations, sanctions, and her hints of what she would do towards Russia if she were president scared me to the core. All I could do is think of how all the serious wars have started from identical shit.

Then all I could think of is how we the populous are completely expendable and mean nothing to the idiots controlling the hill.

Thus why I was anybody but Hillary.
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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #154 on: March 31, 2017, 07:15:08 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on March 31, 2017, 05:09:40 PM
Trump inherited a mess imo, we can't just ignore Isis, he needs to see out what he started with.

We've been there for 16 years now, 16 years of an unjust and illegal war on an ideology instead of a enemy, I'll give the guy more than three months to make a proper exit strategy.

Nobody in the Trump administration wants an exit strategy and the IS is no substantial threat to America. Do you know that the vast majority of terror attacks in America is done by white Christian Supremacists? That may change though when they further escalate the situation. IS is good for Trump and Trump is good for IS. Trump's approval rating is abysmal and the only thing I can imagine that would change that is a big Muslim terror attack.

And again, Trump himself is not the one who governs. He is apparently demented.
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #155 on: March 31, 2017, 08:10:14 PM »
Quote from: Babyhighspeed on March 31, 2017, 06:05:16 PM
It was clear in Hillary's tone that relations would have plummeted with Russia...

Stupid remarks and sanctions is what leads to war (world war two original catalyst was support poles..Very stupid).

The dipshits in Washington have forgotten this..When is the last time we fought an actual enemy?? World war 2.... So Washington is fat and cocky...Not to mention they could give a fuck about the American people, so who cares about sending your populous out to die for you. Doesn't effect them..

There will be a day they get us into an actual war with a competent enemy... We may still win, but at what cost?

Hillary is one of the biggest violators in this...Thus why I would have never voted for her..(there are many other reasons, such as the ignorant regressive left she is a proprietor for, fiscal irresponsibility..But my main reason was our safety.)

I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment of the sanctions. We had a pact to defend Ukraine and Russia invaded. Were we just supposed to let that slide? I think the sanctions were a good compromise between throwing an ally to the wolves and starting ww2.
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #156 on: March 31, 2017, 08:21:53 PM »
Quote from: Babyhighspeed on March 31, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 06:22:55 PM
Quote from: Babyhighspeed on March 31, 2017, 06:05:16 PM
It was clear in Hillary's tone that relations would have plummeted with Russia...

That's not the accusation that disputeone made though. But to address your point, wasn't it obvious by Trump's tone that relations would plummet with many other nations besides Russia? Mexico, Germany, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and perhaps China and the rest of Europe.

There was a difference in tone. The only things Trump sent to other countries was he thought trade was unfair, and they weren't pitching in as they should in NATO.

Even in his inaugural Address he said he wanted good relationships with these counties, he was just going to take America first. I don't find that wrong, these countries are taking themselves first. Why do we have to be the ones sucking it up? Not like we have a money tree or an infinite populous.

No need to suck up. But it would be nice if he didn't ruin our relationship with other countries by throwing out petty insults.

Quote
Hillary, completely different tonality. Very damaging, accusations, sanctions, and her hints of what she would do towards Russia if she were president scared me to the core. All I could do is think of how all the serious wars have started from identical shit.

Fact: Russia invaded Crimea.

Possible responses:

1. Ignore it.
2. Economic sanctions in conjunction with the international community.
3. Military action.

Trump chooses option 1. Hillary chooses option 2.

The entire point of sanctions is to deter smaller aggressive actions by imposing economic consequences. If we ignore Russia's actions, they will continue to push their boundaries unchecked. Russia can't risk outright war against the US in response to the sanctions, and everybody knows that. They especially can't risk outright war against all of NATO. Which is why the US can impose sanctions without risking war.

Quote
Then all I could think of is how we the populous are completely expendable and mean nothing to the idiots controlling the hill.

Thus why I was anybody but Hillary.

Demagogues like Trump thrive on these kinds of vague, paranoid feelings. "Everyone is out to get you, and only I can save you". (edit: mockery removed)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 09:20:26 PM by TotesReptilian »
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #157 on: March 31, 2017, 08:36:50 PM »
Quote from: crutonius on March 31, 2017, 08:10:14 PM
I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment of the sanctions. We had a pact to defend Ukraine and Russia invaded. Were we just supposed to let that slide? I think the sanctions were a good compromise between throwing an ally to the wolves and starting ww2.

I was talking about the baby steps before that. Baby steps is what makes me nervous because so many people overlook them. This has always hit me in a logical form, though only amplified through a profession that requires OCD to the maximum on the "small trivial issues" because they can blossom into one colossal FUBAR.

I recognize I may be a bit TOO OCD at times, but I think better safe than sorry in my eyes. The one time you drop trow without checking around the tree, is the time your ass gets scratched by an angry cat.

Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 08:21:53 PM
Demagogues like Trump thrive on these kinds of vague, paranoid feelings. "Everyone is out to get you, and only I can save you". Are you really going to fall for that?

Remove this and I will continue discussion​.
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #158 on: March 31, 2017, 08:43:46 PM »
Quote from: Babyhighspeed on March 31, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Then all I could think of is how we the populous are completely expendable and mean nothing to the idiots controlling the hill.

Thus why I was anybody but Hillary.
Quote from: Babyhighspeed on March 31, 2017, 08:36:50 PM
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 08:21:53 PM
Demagogues like Trump thrive on these kinds of vague, paranoid feelings. "Everyone is out to get you, and only I can save you". Are you really going to fall for that?

Remove this and I will continue discussion​.

Why?
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #159 on: March 31, 2017, 08:52:31 PM »
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 08:43:46 PM
Why?

It's unnecessary and takes away from the conversation. I don't want another 9/11 thread nonsense. Though it doesn't bug me as much sense these subjects don't mess with my profession. Just opinions, world view and life experience. But still, trying to keep the low brow at a minimum.

Also, your comment​ is right, we can bully Russia and other countries if we want without repercussion. Never disagreed with that, I just don't like it.

One I don't like bullies..

Two, it will backfire one day, and I don't think there will be a "little backfire"..When it does, whenever it may be, it will be of epic proportions.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #160 on: March 31, 2017, 09:31:40 PM »
Western 'democracies' put absolute power in the hands of half a thousand people.
Other governments are controlled by the most recent coup.

Just an observation.

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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #161 on: March 31, 2017, 09:36:00 PM »
Quote from: Babyhighspeed on March 31, 2017, 08:52:31 PM
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 08:43:46 PM
Why?

It's unnecessary and takes away from the conversation. I don't want another 9/11 thread nonsense. Though it doesn't bug me as much sense these subjects don't mess with my profession. Just opinions, world view and life experience. But still, trying to keep the low brow at a minimum.

I'll remove the last sentence. Perhaps it was a bit too inciteful. Apologies. However, I stand by the first part of my statement. Demagogues absolutely do thrive on the kind of vague/paranoid feelings that you expressed. Awareness of their tactics is vital.

Quote
Also, your comment​ is right, we can bully Russia and other countries if we want without repercussion. Never disagreed with that, I just don't like it.

One I don't like bullies..

Two, it will backfire one day, and I don't think there will be a "little backfire"..When it does, whenever it may be, it will be of epic proportions.

1. How would you characterize Russia's actions against Crimea/Ukraine? Does invading and annexing a chunk of your neighbor not count as "bullying" or worse?
2. If not economic sanctions, how would you have us respond to Russia's invasion of an ally? Ignore it? Sternly tell them not to do it again?

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 31, 2017, 09:31:40 PM
Western 'democracies' put absolute power in the hands of half a thousand people.
Other governments are controlled by the most recent coup.

Just an observation.

Absolute power spread out between 500 people doesn't sound very absolute to me.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #162 on: March 31, 2017, 09:55:11 PM »
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 09:36:00 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 31, 2017, 09:31:40 PM
Western 'democracies' put absolute power in the hands of half a thousand people.
Other governments are controlled by the most recent coup.

Just an observation.

Absolute power spread out between 500 people doesn't sound very absolute to me.

I know. But, things seem to average out over time.

Could be worse . . .

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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #163 on: March 31, 2017, 09:57:22 PM »
Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 31, 2017, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 09:36:00 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 31, 2017, 09:31:40 PM
Western 'democracies' put absolute power in the hands of half a thousand people.
Other governments are controlled by the most recent coup.

Just an observation.

Absolute power spread out between 500 people doesn't sound very absolute to me.

I know. But, things seem to average out over time.

I honestly have no idea what you mean.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #164 on: March 31, 2017, 10:05:48 PM »
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 09:57:22 PM
Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 31, 2017, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 09:36:00 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 31, 2017, 09:31:40 PM
Western 'democracies' put absolute power in the hands of half a thousand people.
Other governments are controlled by the most recent coup.

Just an observation.

Absolute power spread out between 500 people doesn't sound very absolute to me.

I know. But, things seem to average out over time.

I honestly have no idea what you mean.


I mean, things lean right then things lean left, but, they average out over time.

If you never watch the daily news, you would barely notice any change.
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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #165 on: April 01, 2017, 07:00:38 PM »
Quote from: FalseProphet on March 31, 2017, 07:15:08 PM
Quote from: disputeone on March 31, 2017, 05:09:40 PM
Trump inherited a mess imo, we can't just ignore Isis, he needs to see out what he started with.

We've been there for 16 years now, 16 years of an unjust and illegal war on an ideology instead of a enemy, I'll give the guy more than three months to make a proper exit strategy.

Nobody in the Trump administration wants an exit strategy and the IS is no substantial threat to America. Do you know that the vast majority of terror attacks in America is done by white Christian Supremacists?

Bullshit, fake news.

>falling for that meme.
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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #166 on: April 01, 2017, 07:09:39 PM »
Quote from: TotesReptilian on March 31, 2017, 08:21:53 PM
Demagogues like Trump thrive on these kinds of vague, paranoid feelings. "Everyone is out to get you, and only I can save you". (edit: mockery removed)



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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #167 on: April 01, 2017, 11:07:45 PM »
Use your words, disputeone. Remember, you commented that Hillary was worse than satan, and made several specific accusations about her:

That "she was involved every step of the way" with 9/11 and the Iraq war.
That "we would be quickly heading towards a war with Russia for hacking americas paper ballots", if she were elected.

I asked if you had any evidence to support these accusations. So far, you haven't provided any. Were you just making them up?
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #168 on: April 02, 2017, 09:57:46 AM »
Quote from: disputeone on April 01, 2017, 07:00:38 PM
Quote from: FalseProphet on March 31, 2017, 07:15:08 PM
Quote from: disputeone on March 31, 2017, 05:09:40 PM
Trump inherited a mess imo, we can't just ignore Isis, he needs to see out what he started with.

We've been there for 16 years now, 16 years of an unjust and illegal war on an ideology instead of a enemy, I'll give the guy more than three months to make a proper exit strategy.

Nobody in the Trump administration wants an exit strategy and the IS is no substantial threat to America. Do you know that the vast majority of terror attacks in America is done by white Christian Supremacists?

Bullshit, fake news.

>falling for that meme.

That's not actually fake news though. Most mass killings in the US are committed by white men. I don't know how many of them are white supremacists, but enough of them have been. It's just that the media doesn't refer to them as "terrorists" no matter how much terror they inflict. They still don't call Dylann Roof a terrorist!
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #169 on: April 02, 2017, 10:08:40 AM »
Quote from: disputeone on April 01, 2017, 07:00:38 PM
Quote from: FalseProphet on March 31, 2017, 07:15:08 PM
Quote from: disputeone on March 31, 2017, 05:09:40 PM
Trump inherited a mess imo, we can't just ignore Isis, he needs to see out what he started with.

We've been there for 16 years now, 16 years of an unjust and illegal war on an ideology instead of a enemy, I'll give the guy more than three months to make a proper exit strategy.

Nobody in the Trump administration wants an exit strategy and the IS is no substantial threat to America. Do you know that the vast majority of terror attacks in America is done by white Christian Supremacists?

Bullshit, fake news.

>falling for that meme.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html

I'll see what I can do about finding a better source on that.  In 2001 the vast majority was from Islamic extremists.  Figuring in the entire history of the US though we have the KKK which, while not active now, absolutely dwarfs radical Islam in terror attacks in the US.  There's abortion clinic bombers, eco terrorists, white supremacists.  We've got some interesting types in the US.

The thing about ISIS that you have to keep in mind is that these are a bunch of assholes that knocked over a bank and are burning through the cash like a madman.  We, on the other hand, have an unlimited amount of cash to throw at them.  They've been steadily losing ground and shrinking for a long time.  Trump doesn't really need a plan to deal with them.  He just needs to stay the course of the previous president. 
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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #170 on: April 02, 2017, 10:33:54 AM »
Quote from: disputeone on April 01, 2017, 07:00:38 PM
Quote from: FalseProphet on March 31, 2017, 07:15:08 PM
Quote from: disputeone on March 31, 2017, 05:09:40 PM
Trump inherited a mess imo, we can't just ignore Isis, he needs to see out what he started with.

We've been there for 16 years now, 16 years of an unjust and illegal war on an ideology instead of a enemy, I'll give the guy more than three months to make a proper exit strategy.

Nobody in the Trump administration wants an exit strategy and the IS is no substantial threat to America. Do you know that the vast majority of terror attacks in America is done by white Christian Supremacists?

Bullshit, fake news.

>falling for that meme.

I already understand that you do not care what is true or not, but it is from the official report of the US anti terror agency covering the last 10 years or so. But I am not going to search it for you, if you would be interested you could easily google it yourself.
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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #171 on: April 02, 2017, 06:21:03 PM »
"According to a 2014 study by the Pew Research Center, 70.6% of the American population identified themselves as Christians."

"Non-Hispanic whites make up 63 percent of the U.S.; Hispanics, 17 percent; blacks, 12.3 percent; Asians, 5 percent; and multiracial Americans, 2.4 percent. About 353 of the nation's 3,143 counties, or 11 percent, are now "majority-minority."

If we have 1000 people and ten of them are red, are they more red in general than having 100 people which five of them are red?

We can work out group A is 1% red and group B is 5% red.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 06:32:53 PM by disputeone »
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #172 on: April 02, 2017, 08:47:13 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on April 02, 2017, 06:21:03 PM
"According to a 2014 study by the Pew Research Center, 70.6% of the American population identified themselves as Christians."

"Non-Hispanic whites make up 63 percent of the U.S.; Hispanics, 17 percent; blacks, 12.3 percent; Asians, 5 percent; and multiracial Americans, 2.4 percent. About 353 of the nation's 3,143 counties, or 11 percent, are now "majority-minority."

If we have 1000 people and ten of them are red, are they more red in general than having 100 people which five of them are red?

We can work out group A is 1% red and group B is 5% red.

Great. But was he talking percentage-wise in the original comment that you called "bullshit, fake news"?

Also, I noticed that you still haven't provided any evidence to support your accusations against Hillary. Do you retract your accusations?
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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #173 on: April 02, 2017, 08:48:43 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on April 02, 2017, 06:21:03 PM
Look, I make a post using many numbers.

Fine. Now everybody thinks you are smart.
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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #174 on: April 02, 2017, 09:30:20 PM »
Quote from: FalseProphet on April 02, 2017, 08:48:43 PM
Quote from: disputeone on April 02, 2017, 06:21:03 PM
Look, I make a post using many numbers.

Fine. Now everybody thinks you are smart.

I'm not that smart, especially with numbers, it's just common sense.
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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #175 on: April 02, 2017, 10:01:56 PM »
Quote from: disputeone on April 02, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
Quote from: FalseProphet on April 02, 2017, 08:48:43 PM
Quote from: disputeone on April 02, 2017, 06:21:03 PM
Look, I make a post using many numbers.

Fine. Now everybody thinks you are smart.

I'm not that smart, especially with numbers, it's just common sense.

Don't belittle yourself!

Quote
About 353 of the nation's 3,143 counties, or 11 percent...

That's great.

Although it is probably fake news. Nothing is certain on a flat planet.
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disputeone

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #176 on: April 02, 2017, 10:07:30 PM »
Quote from: FalseProphet on April 02, 2017, 10:01:56 PM
Quote from: disputeone on April 02, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
Quote from: FalseProphet on April 02, 2017, 08:48:43 PM
Quote from: disputeone on April 02, 2017, 06:21:03 PM
Look, I make a post using many numbers.

Fine. Now everybody thinks you are smart.

I'm not that smart, especially with numbers, it's just common sense.

Don't belittle yourself!

Quote
About 353 of the nation's 3,143 counties, or 11 percent...

That's great.

Although it is probably fake news. Nothing is certain on a flat planet.

Are you trying to be condescending?
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #177 on: April 03, 2017, 12:50:54 AM »
LA Times just wrote an excellent, and brutal, article about Trump.

Quote
What is most worrisome about Trump is Trump himself. He is a man so unpredictable, so reckless, so petulant, so full of blind self-regard, so untethered to reality that it is impossible to know where his presidency will lead or how much damage he will do to our nation. His obsession with his own fame, wealth and success, his determination to vanquish enemies real and imagined, his craving for adulation — these traits were, of course, at the very heart of his scorched-earth outsider campaign; indeed, some of them helped get him elected. But in a real presidency in which he wields unimaginable power, they are nothing short of disastrous.
...

In the days ahead, The Times editorial board will look more closely at the new president, with a special attention to three troubling traits:

1) Trump’s shocking lack of respect...
2) His utter lack of regard for truth...
3) His scary willingness to repeat alt-right conspiracy theories...

If only the media had been more willing to point out these traits before the election.
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Twerp

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #178 on: April 03, 2017, 12:58:00 AM »
Quote from: TotesReptilian on April 03, 2017, 12:50:54 AM
If only the media had been more willing to point out these traits before the election.

They were more than willing the way I remember it.

For better or for worse the American people voted for Trump in spite of the media coverage of the aforementioned traits, mostly because they were fed up with the status quo.

IMHO
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #179 on: April 03, 2017, 01:26:30 AM »
Quote from: Boots on April 03, 2017, 12:58:00 AM
Quote from: TotesReptilian on April 03, 2017, 12:50:54 AM
If only the media had been more willing to point out these traits before the election.

They were more than willing the way I remember it.

For better or for worse the American people voted for Trump in spite of the media coverage of the aforementioned traits, mostly because they were fed up with the status quo.

IMHO

I'm sure you can find some counter examples, but in general, they seemed reluctant to specifically call him out on his lies. They would report what he said with raised eyebrows, dubious expressions, and much tut-tut'ing, but in the end, most outlets didn't take off the kiddy gloves until after the inauguration. That's just my general impression of the major outlets though.
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