Poll

Why do you support Donald Trump?

I don't want mexicans to come
20 (26.7%)
I want him to fight terrorism
11 (14.7%)
Free trade is bad
5 (6.7%)
He is the wild card we need
39 (52%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Why do you support donald trump

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #840 on: June 01, 2017, 02:38:39 PM »
You are not aware that it is mostly America that invades other countries? In the rest of the world America is generally seen as the greatest threat for world peace.

To bring the police analogy into it, that's like saying that the cops are the biggest perpetrators of police brutality.  I'm not saying we're not the villains a lot of the time.  But, like user324 said, if North Korea starts something then you're going to be glad we're here.

You are not the world police. That is the major delusion of US politics. You are a global player who has allies and enemies. Your allies, like South Korea or Taiwan, rely on US troops, that's just natural. Other countries like Iran, feel threatened by the same troops.


Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #841 on: June 01, 2017, 02:53:47 PM »

I should clarify that by "just fine" I meant that the climate should be livable by some portion of humanity, assuming they survive the civil unrest. My point is that it probably won't be one giant desert. But yeah, I agree that 4 degrees will probably be bad enough.

... And Trump just announced that the US is pulling out of the Paris climate agreement. I am at a loss for words at how awful of a person this guy is.

You only need one word, covfefe.

🎵
Covfefe is love,
Covfefe is life,
Covfefe's the source,
Of all the world's strife.
When at a loss,
For what word to use,
Remember covfefe,
The king of fake brews.
🎶

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #842 on: June 01, 2017, 03:00:39 PM »
Even in the 6 degree scenario I reckon it would probably be the end of modern civilization, not mankind. I can definitely see people finding ways to cultivate further north. It could happen, but not anywhere in the near future.

How you know that it could not happen in the near future, when even scientists who dedicated their life to climate research cannot exclude that it may happen in the near future (which means he next hundred years)?

Yes, a few 1000 people may survive on a desert planet ( that will stay a desert planet for millions of years) for a while.

It was ~8 degrees hotter around 55 million years ago. They found tropical plants in the Northern US from that time. Gators in the arctic. The middle latitudes would probably be a death zone, but humanity would probably survive just fine in Canda/Russia/Antarctica.

It is irrelevant how hot it was 55 million years ago. It only matters how fast that happens. Even if we are lucky enough that the breakdown of civil society is not accompanied by a nuclear war - humanity would do nowhere "just fine", cause temperature would not be the only problem.

But we do not have to imagine such apocalyptic scenarios, 4 degrees are bad enough and a very realistic threat.

I should clarify that by "just fine" I meant that the climate should be livable by some portion of humanity, assuming they survive the civil unrest. My point is that it probably won't be one giant desert. But yeah, I agree that 4 degrees will probably be bad enough.


I know that you are not a CG denier. But you don't understand.

The fugitives trying to establish an agricultural society in places like Antarctica or Canada would face a climate far from equilibrium, and it will stay this way for 100s or 1000s of years. The climate would not be only 6 or 8 degrees warmer (that's global average btw including the oceans, on the continents it would be much more) - it would be chaotic. You had years without summer, than you had devastating droughts or storms destroying the fields. The largely post-technological societies would live in constant danger of famines. After a crop failure, what shall they eat - there would be no forests, no game to hunt, the oceans would be almost empty. It is very unlikely that an agricultural, that any human society could survive under such conditions

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #843 on: June 01, 2017, 03:04:50 PM »
I think people have the idea that it will be a gradual change from how it is to much hotter and that there will be some peaceful migration to the Arctic. The famines and droughts are already happening in some places, but people in the US just won't care until they can't get groceries at the store.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #844 on: June 01, 2017, 03:07:51 PM »

You are not the world police. That is the major delusion of US politics.



What is your country going to do to help the Venezuelan people when the country implodes?

Your country will follow the US lead but only contribute a token amount of support like usual.
It's easy to complain about leadership.



RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #845 on: June 01, 2017, 03:14:31 PM »

You are not the world police. That is the major delusion of US politics.



What is your country going to do to help the Venezuelan people when the country implodes?

Your country will follow the US lead but only contribute a token amount of support like usual.
It's easy to complain about leadership.

When a Latin American country "imploded" America was usually the cause for it.

What exactly is America doing against the famine in Yemen other than selling weapons to the Saudis to bomb the shit out of them?

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #846 on: June 01, 2017, 03:17:47 PM »
I should clarify that by "just fine" I meant that the climate should be livable by some portion of humanity, assuming they survive the civil unrest. My point is that it probably won't be one giant desert. But yeah, I agree that 4 degrees will probably be bad enough.

I know that you are not a CG denier. But you don't understand.

The fugitives trying to establish an agricultural society in places like Antarctica or Canada would face a climate far from equilibrium, and it will stay this way for 100s or 1000s of years. The climate would not be only 6 or 8 degrees warmer (that's global average btw including the oceans, on the continents it would be much more) - it would be chaotic. You had years without summer, than you had devastating droughts or storms destroying the fields. The largely post-technological societies would live in constant danger of famines. After a crop failure, what shall they eat - there would be no forests, no game to hunt, the oceans would be almost empty. It is very unlikely that an agricultural, that any human society could survive under such conditions

I see your point about the chaos. Agriculture would be next to impossible on a large scale in such conditions.

You are not the world police. That is the major delusion of US politics.
What is your country going to do to help the Venezuelan people when the country implodes?

Your country will follow the US lead but only contribute a token amount of support like usual.
It's easy to complain about leadership.

Speaking of which, Trump's proposed budget will also gut USAID. Covfefe.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #847 on: June 01, 2017, 03:18:30 PM »
You are not aware that it is mostly America that invades other countries? In the rest of the world America is generally seen as the greatest threat for world peace.

To bring the police analogy into it, that's like saying that the cops are the biggest perpetrators of police brutality.  I'm not saying we're not the villains a lot of the time.  But, like user324 said, if North Korea starts something then you're going to be glad we're here.

You are not the world police. That is the major delusion of US politics. You are a global player who has allies and enemies. Your allies, like South Korea or Taiwan, rely on US troops, that's just natural. Other countries like Iran, feel threatened by the same troops.

Should we be Team America World Police?  I don't know.

Are we?  kinda.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #848 on: June 01, 2017, 03:27:18 PM »
Speaking of which, Trump's proposed budget will also gut USAID.

About time.

If they want an allowance, they need to earn it.
It's not just a gift for them having a fucked up country.
RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #849 on: June 01, 2017, 03:33:32 PM »
Note to myself: don't forget, he is not from this planet.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #850 on: June 01, 2017, 05:29:26 PM »
Speaking of which, Trump's proposed budget will also gut USAID.
About time.

If they want an allowance, they need to earn it.
It's not just a gift for them having a fucked up country.

I'm just going to assume you are trolling for a reaction. Because that is seriously fucked up if you aren't. Covfefe.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #851 on: June 01, 2017, 05:41:40 PM »
Speaking of which, Trump's proposed budget will also gut USAID.
About time.

If they want an allowance, they need to earn it.
It's not just a gift for them having a fucked up country.

I'm just going to assume you are trolling for a reaction. Because that is seriously fucked up if you aren't. Covfefe.

Nope. Serious.

Packing our cash into perpetually failed countries is pointless. It never ends.

Put strings on the money and a date certain when the money ends.
If they don't preform, cut them off.

The US has no obligation to support the third world.

RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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Shifter

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #852 on: June 01, 2017, 06:54:41 PM »
When natural disasters happen to Australia's neighbouring countries, the government of Australia and ordinary people through fund raising and charities spend millions of dollars to assist. Our foreign aid budget runs into the billions of dollars per year despite we are only a country of 25 odd million people.

When we are affected by a natural disaster of our own. Not a single dollar or fuck could be had by the recipients of our charities it seems. In fact, even our own government stiffs our people with pathetic compensation or monetary relief.

I'm not saying we shouldn't assist. It's what good neighbours do. But once in a while it would be nice to know the relationship is 2 way and there is give and take on both sides. Maybe the media could help out advertising this fact a little better.


So maybe Trump should take a look at this and realise that foreign aid is not always one sided

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9231819/ns/us_news-katrina_the_long_road_back/t/nations-offer-aid-help-us-katrina/#.WTDDtLPotaQ



Bangladesh, suffering impoverishment and problems of its own, offered 1 million to a country that spends more than 500 BILLION a year on 'defence'.



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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #853 on: June 01, 2017, 07:34:40 PM »

Bangladesh, suffering impoverishment and problems of its own, offered 1 million to a country that spends more than 500 BILLION a year on 'defence'.


Australia is one of our best friends. You stand up for what is right.
Nobody ever says it outright, so I will . . . Thank you Australia for being a friend.

Bangladesh made an awesome pledge to help. It is refreshing to have others step up.
Countries do it often. Sometimes symbolically, but, it is well appreciated.
RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #854 on: June 01, 2017, 11:23:38 PM »
Should we be Team America World Police?  I don't know.
Are we?  kinda.

Since in America the main task of police seems to be killing people of colour it is not that wrong.


Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #855 on: June 01, 2017, 11:29:45 PM »
Well I'm not entirely sure about it, but I think humanitarian aid / charity is not the government's job, it should be done by charity organisations where people can donate if they are willing to.

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #856 on: June 01, 2017, 11:37:48 PM »
Well I'm not entirely sure about it, but I think humanitarian aid / charity is not the government's job, it should be done by charity organisations where people can donate if they are willing to.

What percentage of the American budget is used to help other countries and what percentage is used to destroy them?

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #857 on: June 01, 2017, 11:39:10 PM »
Well I'm not entirely sure about it, but I think humanitarian aid / charity is not the government's job, it should be done by charity organisations where people can donate if they are willing to.

What percentage of the American budget is used to help other countries and what percentage is used to destroy them?
What makes you think I was talking about america?

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #858 on: June 01, 2017, 11:51:44 PM »
Well I'm not entirely sure about it, but I think humanitarian aid / charity is not the government's job, it should be done by charity organisations where people can donate if they are willing to.

What percentage of the American budget is used to help other countries and what percentage is used to destroy them?
What makes you think I was talking about america?

Ok.

Helping the poor is the whole job of the government. The rich need no help.

Since our world today is one economy giving aid to the poorer countries just pays back because it opens new markets. That's why the US made the Marshall plan after the 2nd WW, that's why China today invests a trillion dollars to help other countries shift to green technology. Close-minded isolationism is just based on a misunderstanding of modern reality.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #859 on: June 02, 2017, 12:01:12 AM »
Helping the poor is the whole job of the government. The rich need no help.
That's your opinon.
I think the government's job is mainly to provide a safe enviroment and good infrastructure. I do agree that a good government should provide help for the poor inside of their country, but not all over the world.
Also I think donations would go up if only people were the ones donating instead of paying taxes, which the government then uses as humanitarian aid. But yeah, that's just a guess, I can't know for sure. Maybe I'm wrong.


poorer countries
When looking at country's deficits, the us probably is one of the poorest countries.

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #860 on: June 02, 2017, 12:06:16 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong.

Yep.

When looking at country's deficits, the us probably is one of the poorest countries.

And its president is maybe the poorest billionaire alive.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #861 on: June 02, 2017, 12:08:37 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong.

Yep.
That's your opinion which you of course can have.

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #862 on: June 02, 2017, 12:14:56 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong.

Yep.
That's your opinion which you of course can have.

Shouldn't you do a bit of thinking when people smarter than you tell you something?

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #863 on: June 02, 2017, 12:19:24 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong.

Yep.
That's your opinion which you of course can have.

Shouldn't you do a bit of thinking when people smarter than you tell you something?
Didn't spot that person yet.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #864 on: June 02, 2017, 12:27:18 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/06/01/these-titans-of-industry-just-broke-with-trumps-decision-to-exit-the-paris-accords/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_climatebiz-6pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.b8c61bfffea7

This is interesting.  Despite Trump withdrawing we might have some kind of participation.  A lot of businesses and state are committed to this.  It'll be interesting if it's effective.  State rights I guess.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #865 on: June 02, 2017, 12:29:33 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong.

Yep.
That's your opinion which you of course can have.

Shouldn't you do a bit of thinking when people smarter than you tell you something?
Didn't spot that person yet.

Did it for you:


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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #866 on: June 02, 2017, 12:32:56 AM »
Should we be Team America World Police?  I don't know.
Are we?  kinda.

Since in America the main task of police seems to be killing people of colour it is not that wrong.

I really hate using this particle argument but take whatever the news says regarding race with a grain of salt.  All things being equal MSM coverage of the news is reasonably accurate.  But there are some exceptions.  Anything with race is one of them.  I'm not saying we don't have racism.  And I'm not saying that the cops have a problem with violence.  But, next time you see one of these police shootings story, look deeper into it.  Watch the entire video, not the one the news showed you.  Read up on the incident.  Read covered of the incident from a news source with an opposing bias.  Often this will paint a very different picture.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #867 on: June 02, 2017, 12:33:25 AM »
Did it for you:


We're now posting pictures of ourselfes?

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Shifter

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #868 on: June 02, 2017, 12:33:42 AM »
Just correct me if I am wrong here.

Under this Paris agreement thing....

India can build more coal power stations and get a share of billions of dollars in foreign aid? How is that helping the planet?

Maybe the billions and billions of dollars could be put to making all future cars run on battery like the Tesla. India has lots of uranium and nuclear bombs. Would it hurt if they had nuclear power stations also?

How much desert does China have? They can power their 1 billion strong population with only a small portion of that desert devoted to solar power stations.

The technology is there. This agreement does seem on the surface that its more about propping up poorer countries at the expensive of richer countries than it does about saving our climate

And America pulling out is a bit of a non story anyway. Apparently it would still take years (Trump may be out of office by then) and many American companies will still abide by the agreement. So to say the worlds climate is ruined over this is a bit of a stretch

I'm all for renewable power. I just think this Paris agreement is hardly an answer to the very big problem. Coal and oil are still major parts of our lives and will continue to be. Shut down a coal power plant in America and open one up in India. What have you achieved? Millions of petrol/diesel cars will still be rolling off showroom floors for many years because battery/hydrogen powered cars will continue to be unaffordable for the masses. Great job!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 12:35:28 AM by Shifter »

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FalseProphet

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #869 on: June 02, 2017, 12:45:52 AM »
Just correct me if I am wrong here.

Under this Paris agreement thing....

India can build more coal power stations and get a share of billions of dollars in foreign aid? How is that helping the planet?

Maybe the billions and billions of dollars could be put to making all future cars run on battery like the Tesla. India has lots of uranium and nuclear bombs. Would it hurt if they had nuclear power stations also?

How much desert does China have? They can power their 1 billion strong population with only a small portion of that desert devoted to solar power stations.

The technology is there. This agreement does seem on the surface that its more about propping up poorer countries at the expensive of richer countries than it does about saving our climate

And America pulling out is a bit of a non story anyway. Apparently it would still take years (Trump may be out of office by then) and many American companies will still abide by the agreement. So to say the worlds climate is ruined over this is a bit of a stretch

I'm all for renewable power. I just think this Paris agreement is hardly an answer to the very big problem. Coal and oil are still major parts of our lives and will continue to be. Shut down a coal power plant in America and open one up in India. What have you achieved? Millions of petrol/diesel cars will still be rolling off showroom floors for many years because battery/hydrogen powered cars will continue to be unaffordable for the masses. Great job!

Don't worry, the poorer countries will not make the US less rich, its government is doing that for them.

Also, how much of their own desert do you think they need to potentially  nourish the whole planet with solar power?