Poll

Why do you support Donald Trump?

I don't want mexicans to come
21 (27.6%)
I want him to fight terrorism
11 (14.5%)
Free trade is bad
5 (6.6%)
He is the wild card we need
39 (51.3%)

Total Members Voted: 71

Why do you support donald trump

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17520 on: January 29, 2020, 06:00:48 AM »

And yes, you can't charge him with Obstruction of Congress when that charge is based on him not complying with subpoenas that are not valid due to procedural errors. Again, you seem to think it's OK to throw out due process if the person being charged is a bad man and it will take too long. That's ludicrous. Even without the procedural error, not complying with subpoenas was no crime whatsoever as no court had validated the subpoenas anyway. (Now I get that you think he SHOULD have complied and maybe you're right. But THAT's not what's at issue. The issue is whether he broke the law.)

You completely missed the point regarding Sondland's testimony. The point was, he was the only one with first hand knowledge and that was his testimony. It wasn't true, I said so in my previous post. There was a quid pro quo. Quid pro quos are common. Millions of them happen every day. If quid pro quos were impeachable every president would be impeached. Trump shouldn't have said there was no quid pro quo, but that's not what they impeached him for and it's not impeachable anyway.

The book is expected to state that there was a quid pro quo which creates a problem for Trump and the Republicans because they've been trying to defend the no quid pro quo position. What the book is unlikely to do, is establish that Trump's intent was to gain a personal advantage against a political rival and not to investigate corruption on behalf of the country.

If it does establish that, perhaps Congress should have waited till it came out so they could have had something solid to base their charges on.

It seems you don't understand how the legal system works very well. It has checks and balances for very good reason. You can't just throw out the checks and balances because Trump's a bad man and impeaching him legally will take too long.

It's important to remember that this is a "trial" and not a trial.  We're not plotting to execute Trump or put him in prison.  We're just trying to figure out if we should fire a shitty temp worker.  Trump breaking the law is an overlapping but separate issue.  What the House is put out is enough to convince a reasonable person.  But now they're trying to convince senate Republicans.

Actually, never mind that.  Here's a relevant clip from the Simpsons.



Again, everyone under oath agrees on this.  No one under oath refutes this.  All the evidence submitted supports this.  There is no evidence that refutes this.  I can't imagine what a stronger case would look like to you.  Does Trump have to give a press conference confirming this? 

There's no other explanation for Trump's action here.

Why would it be necessary to wait for a subpoena to make it through the court system?  Serious question.  Is that written anywhere?  The president has a lot of power.  With the power comes the need for a lot of oversight.  The executive handing out information necessary for oversight is the rule, not the exception.

Suppose a subpoena made it all the way through the court, congress wins but Trump still refuses.  Should we wait for the sergeant at arms to arrest the subject of the subpoena before charging obstruction of congress?  If that subject goes into hiding would you argue that the process of arresting the subject of the subpoena is still playing out therefore congress can't charge obstruction?   

Quid pro quos are common, yes.  But when it's in the interest of the country or our allies.  You can't do a quid pro quo that benefits only yourself.  That kind of thing tends to land people in prison.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich
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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17521 on: January 29, 2020, 07:16:00 AM »
Ummmm.... You do know that Trump can't legally stop aide due to 'concerns of corruption' yes?  That's illegal.  Only congress can stop that money.
This post is so wrong it's laughable!

The President can withhold foreign aid for any reason he wants to withhold it.

Please stop posting nonsense.

Or post the law that backs your silly claim.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title2/chapter17B&edition=prelim

There ya go.


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totallackey

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17522 on: January 29, 2020, 08:45:56 AM »
Ummmm.... You do know that Trump can't legally stop aide due to 'concerns of corruption' yes?  That's illegal.  Only congress can stop that money.
This post is so wrong it's laughable!

The President can withhold foreign aid for any reason he wants to withhold it.

Please stop posting nonsense.

Or post the law that backs your silly claim.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title2/chapter17B&edition=prelim

There ya go.
Strange...

What you provided actually states the President can delay foreign aid.

Got another one?
The NIST report(s) never went through what we would call peer review (Much like an FAA crash report doesn't either). But reports based upon NIST findings have.

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totallackey

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17523 on: January 29, 2020, 08:49:04 AM »
Blah, blah, and blah.
I believe there are 65 million US Citizens who are interested if Joe Biden has engaged in corrupt practices in the Ukraine and other foreign countries.

Therefore, US Interests and the president's interest jive.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 08:57:14 AM by totallackey »
The NIST report(s) never went through what we would call peer review (Much like an FAA crash report doesn't either). But reports based upon NIST findings have.

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Lorddave

  • 15520
Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17524 on: January 29, 2020, 09:55:04 AM »
Ummmm.... You do know that Trump can't legally stop aide due to 'concerns of corruption' yes?  That's illegal.  Only congress can stop that money.
This post is so wrong it's laughable!

The President can withhold foreign aid for any reason he wants to withhold it.

Please stop posting nonsense.

Or post the law that backs your silly claim.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title2/chapter17B&edition=prelim

There ya go.
Strange...

What you provided actually states the President can delay foreign aid.

Got another one?

Nope.

Quote
(b) Consistency with legislative policy
Deferrals shall be permissible only—

(1) to provide for contingencies;

(2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or

(3) as specifically provided by law.


No officer or employee of the United States may defer any budget authority for any other purpose.

He (or his administration) failed to report the defferrment to congress in the required time.

Blah, blah, and blah.
I believe there are 65 million US Citizens who are interested if Joe Biden has engaged in corrupt practices in the Ukraine and other foreign countries.

Therefore, US Interests and the president's interest jive.
Oh?  Why?  Isn't the point for America to win, not "abide by other nation's laws".  But even so, couple of problems with this line of thinking.
1. Why now?  The crime is years old.  Is it because its political?
2. Since Joe Biden has nothing to do with the military aide, it makes no sense to hold it until they investigate.
3. Joe Biden has already been cleared of any wrongdoings by Ukraine.
4. Why not start the investigation in America?  Why didn't Trump ask his own justice department to investigate? 

Also: You know Trump is a criminal in Iran, right?  That matters to the 65 million Americans too, yes?

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The Real Celine Dion

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17525 on: January 29, 2020, 03:46:03 PM »
Ummmm.... You do know that Trump can't legally stop aide due to 'concerns of corruption' yes?  That's illegal.  Only congress can stop that money.
This post is so wrong it's laughable!

The President can withhold foreign aid for any reason he wants to withhold it.

Please stop posting nonsense.

Or post the law that backs your silly claim.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title2/chapter17B&edition=prelim

There ya go.
Strange...

What you provided actually states the President can delay foreign aid.

Got another one?

Nope.

Quote
(b) Consistency with legislative policy
Deferrals shall be permissible only—

(1) to provide for contingencies;

(2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or

(3) as specifically provided by law.


No officer or employee of the United States may defer any budget authority for any other purpose.

He (or his administration) failed to report the defferrment to congress in the required time.

Blah, blah, and blah.
I believe there are 65 million US Citizens who are interested if Joe Biden has engaged in corrupt practices in the Ukraine and other foreign countries.

Therefore, US Interests and the president's interest jive.
Oh?  Why?  Isn't the point for America to win, not "abide by other nation's laws".  But even so, couple of problems with this line of thinking.
1. Why now?  The crime is years old.  Is it because its political?
2. Since Joe Biden has nothing to do with the military aide, it makes no sense to hold it until they investigate.
3. Joe Biden has already been cleared of any wrongdoings by Ukraine.
4. Why not start the investigation in America?  Why didn't Trump ask his own justice department to investigate? 

Also: You know Trump is a criminal in Iran, right?  That matters to the 65 million Americans too, yes?

Hunter Biden had no experience in energy or business, yet he was able to land a seat on the board of directors of a Ukrainian energy company making over 80,000 dollars a month. Now, are you saying that him being the Vice President's son had nothing to do with that?
You just got Weskered, bitches!

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17526 on: January 29, 2020, 04:12:18 PM »
Hunter Biden had no experience in energy or business, yet he was able to land a seat on the board of directors of a Ukrainian energy company making over 80,000 dollars a month. Now, are you saying that him being the Vice President's son had nothing to do with that?

I don't want to minimize that.  It's obviously corrupt.  There's no defending that.

But to be clear that's not actually what Trump is insinuating in all of this.  The story he's trying to tell is that his son was working for this Ukraine company.  He's doing something very criminal(what exactly this is is never defined).  There's a prosecutor who is investigating this company/Hunter Biden.  So Joe Biden decides to corruptly use his power as the vice president to get this prosecutor fired and therefore keep his son out of jail.

What actually happened, and this is well documented, this prosecutor was corrupt.  His problem was not investigating companies/people when he should have.  Every country dealing with Ukraine wanted him fired along with most of congress.  Biden was just the guy who picked up the phone to do it.  And Burisma was a company that threw a lot of money at Hunter Biden to gain favor with the administration. 
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17527 on: January 29, 2020, 05:27:19 PM »


Trump's defense team is arguing that this quid pro quo is okay because his reelection is in the public interest.

Let's stop to appreciate this fantastic legal argument.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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Twerp

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17528 on: January 29, 2020, 08:17:23 PM »

And yes, you can't charge him with Obstruction of Congress when that charge is based on him not complying with subpoenas that are not valid due to procedural errors. Again, you seem to think it's OK to throw out due process if the person being charged is a bad man and it will take too long. That's ludicrous. Even without the procedural error, not complying with subpoenas was no crime whatsoever as no court had validated the subpoenas anyway. (Now I get that you think he SHOULD have complied and maybe you're right. But THAT's not what's at issue. The issue is whether he broke the law.)

You completely missed the point regarding Sondland's testimony. The point was, he was the only one with first hand knowledge and that was his testimony. It wasn't true, I said so in my previous post. There was a quid pro quo. Quid pro quos are common. Millions of them happen every day. If quid pro quos were impeachable every president would be impeached. Trump shouldn't have said there was no quid pro quo, but that's not what they impeached him for and it's not impeachable anyway.

The book is expected to state that there was a quid pro quo which creates a problem for Trump and the Republicans because they've been trying to defend the no quid pro quo position. What the book is unlikely to do, is establish that Trump's intent was to gain a personal advantage against a political rival and not to investigate corruption on behalf of the country.

If it does establish that, perhaps Congress should have waited till it came out so they could have had something solid to base their charges on.

It seems you don't understand how the legal system works very well. It has checks and balances for very good reason. You can't just throw out the checks and balances because Trump's a bad man and impeaching him legally will take too long.

It's important to remember that this is a "trial" and not a trial.  We're not plotting to execute Trump or put him in prison.  We're just trying to figure out if we should fire a shitty temp worker.  Trump breaking the law is an overlapping but separate issue.  What the House is put out is enough to convince a reasonable person.  But now they're trying to convince senate Republicans.

Actually, never mind that.  Here's a relevant clip from the Simpsons.



Again, everyone under oath agrees on this.  No one under oath refutes this.  All the evidence submitted supports this.  There is no evidence that refutes this.  I can't imagine what a stronger case would look like to you.  Does Trump have to give a press conference confirming this? 

There's no other explanation for Trump's action here.

Why would it be necessary to wait for a subpoena to make it through the court system?  Serious question.  Is that written anywhere?  The president has a lot of power.  With the power comes the need for a lot of oversight.  The executive handing out information necessary for oversight is the rule, not the exception.

Suppose a subpoena made it all the way through the court, congress wins but Trump still refuses.  Should we wait for the sergeant at arms to arrest the subject of the subpoena before charging obstruction of congress?  If that subject goes into hiding would you argue that the process of arresting the subject of the subpoena is still playing out therefore congress can't charge obstruction?   

Quid pro quos are common, yes.  But when it's in the interest of the country or our allies.  You can't do a quid pro quo that benefits only yourself.  That kind of thing tends to land people in prison.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich
A stronger case would be firsthand testimony showing that Trump's intent was to gain a personal advantage against a political rival and not to investigate corruption on behalf of the country.

What if Trump doesn't obey a legally validated subpoenas, therefore throw the whole idea of due process out the window and just impeach him already?? Really! Stop listening to Don lime or whomever and start thinking for yourself. Really.

And your argument that impeaching on the grounds they've chosen is fine because Congress is authorized to do so make no sense. The same argument could be made if the senate decides to acquit. As long as they have the votes they are authorized to do so.

Anyway, impeachment was meant to be applied to when actual crimes were committed.



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Lorddave

  • 15520
Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17529 on: January 29, 2020, 08:32:13 PM »
Hunter Biden had no experience in energy or business, yet he was able to land a seat on the board of directors of a Ukrainian energy company making over 80,000 dollars a month. Now, are you saying that him being the Vice President's son had nothing to do with that?

I don't want to minimize that.  It's obviously corrupt.  There's no defending that.

But to be clear that's not actually what Trump is insinuating in all of this.  The story he's trying to tell is that his son was working for this Ukraine company.  He's doing something very criminal(what exactly this is is never defined).  There's a prosecutor who is investigating this company/Hunter Biden.  So Joe Biden decides to corruptly use his power as the vice president to get this prosecutor fired and therefore keep his son out of jail.

What actually happened, and this is well documented, this prosecutor was corrupt.  His problem was not investigating companies/people when he should have.  Every country dealing with Ukraine wanted him fired along with most of congress.  Biden was just the guy who picked up the phone to do it.  And Burisma was a company that threw a lot of money at Hunter Biden to gain favor with the administration.

To add to what crouton said:
As I understand it, many eastern businesses hire westerners of stature (or connections) for the purpose of seeming legitimate and powerful.  And most people, if you offered them an easy job with lots of money, would go for it.

The question is: did Joe Biden pressure Ukraine to pressure the company to hire his son.  So far, no one has bothered to ask or care.  They only care that Joe Biden had a persecutor fired who was investigating that energy company (before hunter joined).

Also note: Hunter was employed after Joe Biden left office and voluntarily stepped down before his dad started running for president.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17530 on: January 29, 2020, 08:55:34 PM »
A stronger case would be firsthand testimony showing that Trump's intent was to gain a personal advantage against a political rival and not to investigate corruption on behalf of the country.

Such as the kind that John Bolton is literally writing a book about?  Would you support calling him as a witness in this impeachment then?


What if Trump doesn't obey a legally validated subpoenas, therefore throw the whole idea of due process out the window and just impeach him already?? Really! Stop listening to Don lime or whomever and start thinking for yourself. Really.


I am unfamiliar with who Don Lime is.

And your argument that impeaching on the grounds they've chosen is fine because Congress is authorized to do so make no sense. The same argument could be made if the senate decides to acquit. As long as they have the votes they are authorized to do so.

Correct.  Legally the house can impeach over whatever they feel is worthy of impeachment.  And legally the senate can acquit it with whatever process they feel is appropriate.

When the republicans acquit him it's rather silly to call it an illegal acquittal in the same way that calling the impeachment was illegal or unconstitutional. 

Anyway, impeachment was meant to be applied to when actual crimes were committed.




I've seen the first video.  The argument is silly and uninformed.  I can only guess that a law degree in Canada doesn't cover the US Constitution all that comprehensively. 

It may interest you to know that there's a whole set of essays called the Federalist Papers where several of our founding fathers went into great detail discussing a lot of the concepts that went into the Constitution.  One of these concepts is referred to as "high crimes and misdemeanors"  which is more or less abuse of power that constitutes a serious threat to the state.  Anyways, definitely worth a read.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
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JerkFace

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17531 on: January 30, 2020, 02:00:04 AM »
I'm back on deck,   Qantas tried to throw me out a couple of times,  but thanks to Wise's warnings, I managed to land safely. 

I see Trump is still hanging on by a thread.   Who would have thought the dems would suddenly decide to like John Bolton.   FFS. 

So,  what happens next?
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17532 on: January 30, 2020, 02:10:11 AM »
I'm back on deck,   Qantas tried to throw me out a couple of times,  but thanks to Wise's warnings, I managed to land safely. 

I see Trump is still hanging on by a thread.   Who would have thought the dems would suddenly decide to like John Bolton.   FFS. 

So,  what happens next?

They acquit on Friday.

*

JerkFace

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17533 on: January 30, 2020, 02:12:53 AM »
I'm back on deck,   Qantas tried to throw me out a couple of times,  but thanks to Wise's warnings, I managed to land safely. 

I see Trump is still hanging on by a thread.   Who would have thought the dems would suddenly decide to like John Bolton.   FFS. 

So,  what happens next?

They acquit on Friday.

So the Dems get to claim "cover up"?    I think that will cost the GOP in November.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

*

Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17534 on: January 30, 2020, 02:23:03 AM »
I'm back on deck,   Qantas tried to throw me out a couple of times,  but thanks to Wise's warnings, I managed to land safely. 

I see Trump is still hanging on by a thread.   Who would have thought the dems would suddenly decide to like John Bolton.   FFS. 

So,  what happens next?

They acquit on Friday.

So the Dems get to claim "cover up"?    I think that will cost the GOP in November.

They've claimed every other lame ass fantasy for three years,
"cover up" is the logical next chapter.

Next thing they'll blame him for is weather fluctuation.

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JerkFace

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17535 on: January 30, 2020, 02:47:38 AM »
I'm back on deck,   Qantas tried to throw me out a couple of times,  but thanks to Wise's warnings, I managed to land safely. 

I see Trump is still hanging on by a thread.   Who would have thought the dems would suddenly decide to like John Bolton.   FFS. 

So,  what happens next?

They acquit on Friday.

So the Dems get to claim "cover up"?    I think that will cost the GOP in November.

They've claimed every other lame ass fantasy for three years,
"cover up" is the logical next chapter.

Next thing they'll blame him for is weather fluctuation.

I think you mean climate change,  and he's definately in the frame for that.   Paris accord and all.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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totallackey

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17536 on: January 30, 2020, 06:48:01 AM »
Ummmm.... You do know that Trump can't legally stop aide due to 'concerns of corruption' yes?  That's illegal.  Only congress can stop that money.
This post is so wrong it's laughable!

The President can withhold foreign aid for any reason he wants to withhold it.

Please stop posting nonsense.

Or post the law that backs your silly claim.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title2/chapter17B&edition=prelim

There ya go.
Strange...

What you provided actually states the President can delay foreign aid.

Got another one?

Nope.
We already know.

I was only being nice, offering you another opportunity to pull your first foot from your mouth.
Quote
(b) Consistency with legislative policy
Deferrals shall be permissible only—

(1) to provide for contingencies;

(2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or

(3) as specifically provided by law.


No officer or employee of the United States may defer any budget authority for any other purpose.

He (or his administration) failed to report the defferrment to congress in the required time.
Wrong.

I already provided the relevant section regarding reporting.

From the Impoundment Control Act, we find two Executive Directives, one by Nixon, the other by Reagan:

"Codification
Section was formerly classified to section 1404 of Title 31 prior to the general revision and enactment of Title 31, Money and Finance, by Pub. L. 97–258, §1, Sept. 13, 1982, 96 Stat. 877.

Ex. Ord. No. 11845. Delegation of Certain Reporting Functions to Director of Office of Management and Budget
Ex. Ord. No. 11845, Mar. 24, 1975, 40 F.R. 13299, as amended by Ex. Ord. No. 12608, Sept. 9, 1987, 52 F.R. 34617, provided:

By virtue of the authority vested in me by the Impoundment Control Act of 1974 (Public Law 93–344; 88 Stat. 332, (2 U.S.C. 681 et seq.), hereinafter referred to as the Act) [subchapters I and II of this chapter], and section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget is hereby designated and empowered to exercise, as of October 1, 1974 without ratification or other action of the President (1) the functions required by sections 1014(b) and 1014(d) of the Act [subsecs. (b) and (d) of this section] of transmitting to the Comptroller General of the United States and to the Office of the Federal Register copies of special messages transmitted pursuant to section 1012 or 1013 (2 U.S.C. 683 and 684) of the Act; and (2) the function conferred upon the President by section 1014(e) of the Act (2 U.S.C. 685(e)) of submitting to the Congress cumulative reports of proposed rescissions, reservations, and deferrals of budget authority."

Everyone here can see they were codified into law.

Everyone can see who was granted the authority and the responsibility for reporting.
Blah, blah, and blah.
I believe there are 65 million US Citizens who are interested if Joe Biden has engaged in corrupt practices in the Ukraine and other foreign countries.

Therefore, US Interests and the president's interest jive.
Oh?  Why?  Isn't the point for America to win, not "abide by other nation's laws".  But even so, couple of problems with this line of thinking.
1. Why now?  The crime is years old.  Is it because its political?
2. Since Joe Biden has nothing to do with the military aide, it makes no sense to hold it until they investigate.
3. Joe Biden has already been cleared of any wrongdoings by Ukraine.
4. Why not start the investigation in America?  Why didn't Trump ask his own justice department to investigate? 

Also: You know Trump is a criminal in Iran, right?  That matters to the 65 million Americans too, yes?
Trump is likely a criminal for a lot of other reasons and in a lot of other countries.

What counts is actually naming those crimes.

Got one?

I will write the House managers myself.

Otherwise, just grab a tissue.
The NIST report(s) never went through what we would call peer review (Much like an FAA crash report doesn't either). But reports based upon NIST findings have.

Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17537 on: January 30, 2020, 09:06:28 AM »
Hunter Biden had no experience in energy or business, yet he was able to land a seat on the board of directors of a Ukrainian energy company making over 80,000 dollars a month. Now, are you saying that him being the Vice President's son had nothing to do with that?
Obviously it did - isn't that the American Way?.  How did Trump's retarded kids get all their top jobs? 
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17538 on: January 30, 2020, 10:38:07 AM »
Ummmm.... You do know that Trump can't legally stop aide due to 'concerns of corruption' yes?  That's illegal.  Only congress can stop that money.
This post is so wrong it's laughable!

The President can withhold foreign aid for any reason he wants to withhold it.

Please stop posting nonsense.

Or post the law that backs your silly claim.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title2/chapter17B&edition=prelim

There ya go.
Strange...

What you provided actually states the President can delay foreign aid.

Got another one?

Nope.
We already know.

I was only being nice, offering you another opportunity to pull your first foot from your mouth.
Quote
(b) Consistency with legislative policy
Deferrals shall be permissible only—

(1) to provide for contingencies;

(2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or

(3) as specifically provided by law.


No officer or employee of the United States may defer any budget authority for any other purpose.

He (or his administration) failed to report the defferrment to congress in the required time.
Wrong.

I already provided the relevant section regarding reporting.

From the Impoundment Control Act, we find two Executive Directives, one by Nixon, the other by Reagan:

"Codification
Section was formerly classified to section 1404 of Title 31 prior to the general revision and enactment of Title 31, Money and Finance, by Pub. L. 97–258, §1, Sept. 13, 1982, 96 Stat. 877.

Ex. Ord. No. 11845. Delegation of Certain Reporting Functions to Director of Office of Management and Budget
Ex. Ord. No. 11845, Mar. 24, 1975, 40 F.R. 13299, as amended by Ex. Ord. No. 12608, Sept. 9, 1987, 52 F.R. 34617, provided:

By virtue of the authority vested in me by the Impoundment Control Act of 1974 (Public Law 93–344; 88 Stat. 332, (2 U.S.C. 681 et seq.), hereinafter referred to as the Act) [subchapters I and II of this chapter], and section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget is hereby designated and empowered to exercise, as of October 1, 1974 without ratification or other action of the President (1) the functions required by sections 1014(b) and 1014(d) of the Act [subsecs. (b) and (d) of this section] of transmitting to the Comptroller General of the United States and to the Office of the Federal Register copies of special messages transmitted pursuant to section 1012 or 1013 (2 U.S.C. 683 and 684) of the Act; and (2) the function conferred upon the President by section 1014(e) of the Act (2 U.S.C. 685(e)) of submitting to the Congress cumulative reports of proposed rescissions, reservations, and deferrals of budget authority."

Everyone here can see they were codified into law.

Everyone can see who was granted the authority and the responsibility for reporting.
Blah, blah, and blah.
I believe there are 65 million US Citizens who are interested if Joe Biden has engaged in corrupt practices in the Ukraine and other foreign countries.

Therefore, US Interests and the president's interest jive.
Oh?  Why?  Isn't the point for America to win, not "abide by other nation's laws".  But even so, couple of problems with this line of thinking.
1. Why now?  The crime is years old.  Is it because its political?
2. Since Joe Biden has nothing to do with the military aide, it makes no sense to hold it until they investigate.
3. Joe Biden has already been cleared of any wrongdoings by Ukraine.
4. Why not start the investigation in America?  Why didn't Trump ask his own justice department to investigate? 

Also: You know Trump is a criminal in Iran, right?  That matters to the 65 million Americans too, yes?
Trump is likely a criminal for a lot of other reasons and in a lot of other countries.

What counts is actually naming those crimes.

Got one?

I will write the House managers myself.

Otherwise, just grab a tissue.
It's funny that you quote the Impound and Control Act, considering there is a report that recently came out that found Trump's delay of the aid broken that very act.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Stash

  • 3832
Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17539 on: January 30, 2020, 01:53:48 PM »
From the GAO:

Decision
Matter of: Office of Management and Budget—Withholding of Ukraine Security
Assistance
File: B-331564
Date: January 16, 2020

DIGEST
In the summer of 2019, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) withheld from obligation funds appropriated to the Department of Defense (DOD) for security assistance to Ukraine. In order to withhold the funds, OMB issued a series of nine apportionment schedules with footnotes that made all unobligated balances unavailable for obligation.
Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.


https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17540 on: January 30, 2020, 02:22:45 PM »
From the GAO:

Decision
Matter of: Office of Management and Budget—Withholding of Ukraine Security
Assistance
File: B-331564
Date: January 16, 2020

DIGEST
In the summer of 2019, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) withheld from obligation funds appropriated to the Department of Defense (DOD) for security assistance to Ukraine. In order to withhold the funds, OMB issued a series of nine apportionment schedules with footnotes that made all unobligated balances unavailable for obligation.
Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.


https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf

Ah.  I see how you could think that it's problematic.  However in this trial, Trump's attorneys have made a compelling argument.  They say that since the president believes his reelection is in the nation's best interest then it's okay to do whatever it takes to get reelected.

I'm not kidding.  This is seriously what they've argued.  And we've got 53 US senators who are about to accept that as reasonable.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

*

Lorddave

  • 15520
Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17541 on: January 30, 2020, 02:23:51 PM »
From the GAO:

Decision
Matter of: Office of Management and Budget—Withholding of Ukraine Security
Assistance
File: B-331564
Date: January 16, 2020

DIGEST
In the summer of 2019, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) withheld from obligation funds appropriated to the Department of Defense (DOD) for security assistance to Ukraine. In order to withhold the funds, OMB issued a series of nine apportionment schedules with footnotes that made all unobligated balances unavailable for obligation.
Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.


https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf

Ah.  I see how you could think that it's problematic.  However in this trial, Trump's attorneys have made a compelling argument.  They say that since the president believes his reelection is in the nation's best interest then it's okay to do whatever it takes to get reelected.

I'm not kidding.  This is seriously what they've argued.  And we've got 53 US senators who are about to accept that as reasonable.

Joe Biden should ask Russia for that pee tape for the same reason.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17542 on: January 30, 2020, 02:27:30 PM »
It's going to be an interesting new way to do elections.  One where foreign powers can be involved in the process.  Unlimited dark money from Saudi Arabia.  Endorsements from North Korea.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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DuckDodgers

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17543 on: January 30, 2020, 02:29:45 PM »
It's honestly astounding that anyone is entertaining the weak defenses coming from Trump's attorneys, to include: but obama, biden bad, no QPQ because national interest, okay so QPQ but not grounds for removal because in national interest, no technical crimes commit so you must acquit. I may have missed some good arguments in there, so forgive me.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

*

Stash

  • 3832
Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17544 on: January 30, 2020, 02:43:55 PM »
They say that since the president believes his reelection is in the nation's best interest then it's okay to do whatever it takes to get reelected.

That is scary shit, but it does seem to be the defense. If so, then Nixon should have been fine and would never had needed to obstruct the investigation - He was simply attempting to ensure his reelection because he as president was in the best interest of the nation.
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17545 on: January 30, 2020, 03:10:56 PM »
https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1222931962039603202?s=20
Quote
Of all the insane things being said about this impeachment debacle - and there is a lot to choose from - one of the most ridiculous is to say Senate Republicans are “Blocking Witnesses.”
 
This is an outrageous claim.

He says, while they block witnesses.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JerkFace

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17546 on: January 30, 2020, 04:48:47 PM »
https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1222931962039603202?s=20
Quote
Of all the insane things being said about this impeachment debacle - and there is a lot to choose from - one of the most ridiculous is to say Senate Republicans are “Blocking Witnesses.”
 
This is an outrageous claim.

He says, while they block witnesses.

Either they think the public is stupid, or they themselves are stupid.    (Hint: in most cases it's not the latter.)

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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markjo

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17547 on: January 30, 2020, 04:54:53 PM »
Hunter Biden had no experience in energy or business, yet he was able to land a seat on the board of directors of a Ukrainian energy company making over 80,000 dollars a month. Now, are you saying that him being the Vice President's son had nothing to do with that?
Forgive my ignorance, but how does any of that equal corruption?  So what if Hunter Biden was hired for his last name?  Tell me that Ivanka and Jared are any more qualified for their White House jobs.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17548 on: January 30, 2020, 06:12:35 PM »
It's honestly astounding that anyone is entertaining the weak defenses coming from Trump's attorneys, to include: but obama, biden bad, no QPQ because national interest, okay so QPQ but not grounds for removal because in national interest, no technical crimes commit so you must acquit. I may have missed some good arguments in there, so forgive me.

There's also the mixed motive defense.  Where they state that if an action has multiple motivations and any one of those motivations is not corrupt then that makes the act legal.

Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

?

Twerp

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Re: Why do you support donald trump
« Reply #17549 on: January 30, 2020, 06:25:15 PM »
It's honestly astounding that anyone is entertaining the weak defenses coming from Trump's attorneys, to include: but obama, biden bad, no QPQ because national interest, okay so QPQ but not grounds for removal because in national interest, no technical crimes commit so you must acquit. I may have missed some good arguments in there, so forgive me.

There's also the mixed motive defense.  Where they state that if an action has multiple motivations and any one of those motivations is not corrupt then that makes the act legal.
Poorly worded but understandable given the obvious.

The argument is actually that the intent behind a president's action can be the nation's interest and simultaneously the president's interest. This does not in and of itself constitute any corruption. FYI Most president's actions and decisions are done with both these interests in mind.