Wha's up with the compass

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Wha's up with the compass
« on: June 30, 2016, 07:56:16 AM »
I don't see a history of this topic. Just a Q&A from last May, with no replies.
For over 2200 years, the magnetic compass has been used and trusted to navigate land and sea.
It provided the shortest route and calculable variances from that straight line route.
If I use a compass and were to leave San Francisco Bay and head due West, I would end up in Japan. Yes?
If I look at a FE map, due West or East from anywhere, takes me to or toward the Arctic. Yes?
So North/South is a straight line but East/West is a circle. Yes?
The sun rotates in a circle, above the FE. Yes?

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Kami

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Re: Wha's up with the compass
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2016, 08:06:09 AM »
All true according to mainstream FET.

Re: Wha's up with the compass
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2016, 10:21:55 AM »
I think due west or east on the flat earth map would take you to the outer part of the circle which according to flat earth assertion would be where Antarctica is. But maybe with a compass it is only pointing north and from there we get the other directions. And even then, following the compass constantly would take you in a circle since the compass will always point to the north and you would always follow the east or west indicated by the compass

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Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: Wha's up with the compass
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2016, 06:21:29 AM »
1) The compass is not the shortest route between two places but the great circle is.
Quote
Great Circle - a circle on the surface of a sphere that lies in a plane passing through the sphere's center. As it represents the shortest distance between any two points on a sphere, a great circle of the earth is the preferred route taken by a ship or aircraft.

2) Off hand, I don't see how it would prove/disprove a FE. If you keep due north on your right, you will travel the latitude (more or less, magnetic N is not true N) on both. Things would probably get funny near the S. magnetic pole as it is far away from true south and the S.Pole.

3) If you want to go absolutely E/W, you need to use the N.Celestial Pole (due north) and S.Celestial Pole (due south) to navigate. That is why sailors used the stars and sextants.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Re: Wha's up with the compass
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2016, 08:47:24 AM »
1) The compass is not the shortest route between two places but the great circle is.
Quote
Great Circle - a circle on the surface of a sphere that lies in a plane passing through the sphere's center. As it represents the shortest distance between any two points on a sphere, a great circle of the earth is the preferred route taken by a ship or aircraft.

2) Off hand, I don't see how it would prove/disprove a FE. If you keep due north on your right, you will travel the latitude (more or less, magnetic N is not true N) on both. Things would probably get funny near the S. magnetic pole as it is far away from true south and the S.Pole.

3) If you want to go absolutely E/W, you need to use the N.Celestial Pole (due north) and S.Celestial Pole (due south) to navigate. That is why sailors used the stars and sextants.

A compass is comprised of 360 degrees. N/S and E/W are STRAIGHT LINES forming 90 degree quadrants. On a FE, E/W is a circle.
Drawing a 90 degree line off N/S line, will always point south on a FE map/compass. How does this work for plotting a E/W course on a map?
The compass degrees do not change.
Due West from my house is Japan. That is 270 degrees on a compass and a straight line. That is how it has been drawn for thousands of years.
That is why older ships used Flat Maps(not FE maps) and compasses to navigate. Yes stars and sextants too. But they had a compass and used it for plotting.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Wha's up with the compass
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2016, 12:42:43 PM »
Compasses work just fine, thanks for asking. 


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Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: Wha's up with the compass
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2016, 12:44:04 PM »
1) The compass is not the shortest route between two places but the great circle is.
Quote
Great Circle - a circle on the surface of a sphere that lies in a plane passing through the sphere's center. As it represents the shortest distance between any two points on a sphere, a great circle of the earth is the preferred route taken by a ship or aircraft.

2) Off hand, I don't see how it would prove/disprove a FE. If you keep due north on your right, you will travel the latitude (more or less, magnetic N is not true N) on both. Things would probably get funny near the S. magnetic pole as it is far away from true south and the S.Pole.

3) If you want to go absolutely E/W, you need to use the N.Celestial Pole (due north) and S.Celestial Pole (due south) to navigate. That is why sailors used the stars and sextants.

A compass is comprised of 360 degrees. N/S and E/W are STRAIGHT LINES forming 90 degree quadrants. On a FE, E/W is a circle.
Drawing a 90 degree line off N/S line, will always point south on a FE map/compass. How does this work for plotting a E/W course on a map?
The compass degrees do not change.
Due West from my house is Japan. That is 270 degrees on a compass and a straight line. That is how it has been drawn for thousands of years.
That is why older ships used Flat Maps(not FE maps) and compasses to navigate. Yes stars and sextants too. But they had a compass and used it for plotting.
1) Are we talking about true N/S or MAGNETIC N/S? So be clear, which are you referring to? They are different. Longitudes are base on true N/S (N.Pole/S.Pole). Magnetic lines join the mag N/S like a magnet and do not usually correspond to longitude lines. That is what compasses use. That is why typically you need to make corrections to compasses if you want to know where true north/south is.

2) There is E/W that is relative to true north/south that is perpendicular to longitude lines. Compasses use mag E/W that is perpendicular from any magnetic line.

3) Although the E/W lines are perpendicular to the longitude/mag lines, they are not nice rectangles (straight lines).

On a RE, the vertical lines (longitudes) converge at the N.Pole and S.Pole. The magnetic lines do the same at the mag N.Pole and mag S.Pole (that compasses use) but in different places on Earth.

On a FE the magnetic lines converge on the mag N.Pole and mag S.Pole (compass) also. The longitude lines keep on diverging from the N.Pole (the true S.Pole on a FE should be under the N.Pole on the other side). The "edge" should not be the S.Pole but the equator.

4) Japan being E/W... is that compass or based on longitudes?

5) E/W is NOT a straight line anywhere. It is always a circle. On a FE it goes left/right. On a RE, it goes up/down/left/right.

QED: Go to the N.Pole or mag N.Pole. Go say 3 feet (1 m) off it it. Now, with it on your right, walk around the ~9 feet (3 m) to get back to the same spot you started. Did you make a circle? or did you go straight? Does it matter if it is a FE or RE?
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Re: Wha's up with the compass
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2016, 12:51:57 PM »
Jadyyn I was referring to a magnetic north. Since it is about 300 miles form True North, my statement holds either way.
I accept your conclusion that both RE and FE have a circle formation when traveling East-West.
Latitude lines are already drawn and show my reasoning best. Also, flat maps are used for plotting and hold the values of the globe.
And thus you can draw a straight line from East to West, 90 degrees off the North. This is due to the RE, N/S axis. FE does not have one...
There is a difference though. Walking East to West on the Equator:
On a FE you are literally walking in a circle. Constantly changing your steps/path to the right.
On a RE your walking straight line and the circle is formed cus your walking around a "ball".





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rabinoz

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Re: Wha's up with the compass
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2016, 07:15:37 PM »
Jadyyn I was referring to a magnetic north. Since it is about 300 miles form True North, my statement holds either way.
I accept your conclusion that both RE and FE have a circle formation when traveling East-West.
Latitude lines are already drawn and show my reasoning best. Also, flat maps are used for plotting and hold the values of the globe.
And thus you can draw a straight line from East to West, 90 degrees off the North. This is due to the RE, N/S axis. FE does not have one...
There is a difference though. Walking East to West on the Equator:
On a FE you are literally walking in a circle. Constantly changing your steps/path to the right.
On a RE your walking straight line and the circle is formed cus your walking around a "ball".

It's all much worse in the southern hemisphere, where the Magnetic Pole is a long way from the Geographic Pole.
Quote from: Australian Antarctic Division
True geographic pole
Either of two points of intersection of the surface of the Earth with the Earth’s axis of rotation. The location of this pole moves approximately 10 m a year and is recalculated each year. The true south geographic pole is located near Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station. Here there are many markers representing the movement of the true geographic pole.
The distance between the south geographic pole and the south magnetic pole is approximately 2858 kilometres. The geographic pole is also sometimes referred to as the geodetic pole.

South magnetic pole
Is the point on the Earth's surface where the direction of the Earth’s magnetic field is vertically upwards. The magnetic dip, the angle between the horizontal plane and the Earth’s magnetic field lines, is 90° at the magnetic poles. The south magnetic pole is not fixed and its position moves about 5 kilometres per year presently in a north to northwesterly direction.

Geomagnetic pole
Either of two points of intersection of the surface of the Earth with the extended axis of a magnetic dipole which is assumed to be located at the centre of the Earth and approximates the source of the Earth's magnetic field. It should not be confused with the magnetic pole which relates to the actual magnetic field of the Earth. The south geomagnetic pole is at 78° 30′ S and 111° E which is near Russia’s Vostok Station.
From Australian Antarctic Division, Poles and Directions

Well away from the magnetic poles the earth behaves as if it is a big bar magnet with poles under the The south geomagnetic poles.