The Bible and flat earth.

We know where he was. He was on the surface of the waters, not talking from the point of view on Earth. When he talked in reference to the Earth, he did so mentioning the earth or Earth explicitly. Unfortunately, at that time it was without form and void - he was on the surface of the waters. If this was a globe, he would be outside the globe and water canopy.

That still can be referring to earth's POV. The earth was a basically a giant water drop before the land appeared. Besides, if your interpretation is correct then what is the water standing on?

If anything is clear, its clear that its not hard to interpret this either way thus putting the practice of biblical literal interpretation into question as a whole.

No, it's pretty easy to interpret it as a globe model.

Alright, it's been touched on here and there but no one recently made a thread discussing it. I challenge anyone to prove that the Bible speaks of a flat earth without any doubt and within context. Only use the KJV for reference that way we are on the same page.

The Hebrew belief in a flat earth does not necessarily come from a single Bible verse - it comes from the whole picture the Bible paints, as well as archeological evidence.
The Bible frequently uses phrases like "The ends of the Earth" and "Center of the Earth." This, I agree, could be interpreted as metaphors. However, there are also stories which actually did happen, which would be impossible on a Round Earth, such as when Satan shows Christ the entire world sprawled under him simply by bringing him up to a very high place.

It should also be noted that the lie of heliocentrism was invented long after the events of the Old Testament occurred. It was only in the 3rd century BC that the Greeks accepted the Round Earth, and even then they were the only culture to accept it as the true shape of the world. All Middle Eastern cultures back in those days believed in a flat earth; it would be a strange coincidence that the Hebrews were the only ones to adopt this lie thousands of years earlier, especially when you consider the Biblical verses that suggest a flat Earth.

If you're interested in a biblical argument, there's this Christian FEer:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64532.msg1719633#msg1719633

Their argument seems to stem from the story where Jesus is taken up a mountain and shown 'all the kingdoms of the world.' As he's taken up a mountain, altitude is implied to be the relevant factor, so if Jesus could see everything from one high point he must be looking down on a flat surface.
One of the more interesting users. if you want details of how FET and Christianity get reconciled, or the Bible used to support FET, you might find them interesting.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64571.0

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 22, 2016, 09:33:15 AM

Alright, it's been touched on here and there but no one recently made a thread discussing it. I challenge anyone to prove that the Bible speaks of a flat earth without any doubt and within context. Only use the KJV for reference that way we are on the same page.

The Hebrew belief in a flat earth does not necessarily come from a single Bible verse - it comes from the whole picture the Bible paints, as well as archeological evidence.
The Bible frequently uses phrases like "The ends of the Earth" and "Center of the Earth." This, I agree, could be interpreted as metaphors. However, there are also stories which actually did happen, which would be impossible on a Round Earth, such as when Satan shows Christ the entire world sprawled under him simply by bringing him up to a very high place.

1. The entire event between Jesus and satan is supernatural. From telling Jesus to turn rocks into bread to him taking him from the desert to the temple to a high mountain.

2. Even according to you flat earthers the reason why you can't see Paris, France from New York is because of refraction so how can satan show Jesus all the kingdoms if the earth if its flat?

3. What most likely happened was similar to a vision. Satan took Jesus to a high mountain and through a vision or something similar show'd him all of the kingdoms.

It should also be noted that the lie of heliocentrism was invented long after the events of the Old Testament occurred. It was only in the 3rd century BC that the Greeks accepted the Round Earth, and even then they were the only culture to accept it as the true shape of the world. All Middle Eastern cultures back in those days believed in a flat earth; it would be a strange coincidence that the Hebrews were the only ones to adopt this lie thousands of years earlier, especially when you consider the Biblical verses that suggest a flat Earth.

Your first mistake is assuming that its a lie.

3. What most likely happened was similar to a vision. Satan took Jesus to a high mountain and through a vision or something similar show'd him all of the kingdoms.

The Christian FEers who reference that passage seem to respond by pointing out that there would be no need to specify high mountain if it was merely a vision: that the passage makes a big deal out of altitude.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 22, 2016, 09:33:15 AM

Alright, it's been touched on here and there but no one recently made a thread discussing it. I challenge anyone to prove that the Bible speaks of a flat earth without any doubt and within context. Only use the KJV for reference that way we are on the same page.

The Hebrew belief in a flat earth does not necessarily come from a single Bible verse - it comes from the whole picture the Bible paints, as well as archeological evidence.
The Bible frequently uses phrases like "The ends of the Earth" and "Center of the Earth." This, I agree, could be interpreted as metaphors. However, there are also stories which actually did happen, which would be impossible on a Round Earth, such as when Satan shows Christ the entire world sprawled under him simply by bringing him up to a very high place.

It should also be noted that the lie of heliocentrism was invented long after the events of the Old Testament occurred. It was only in the 3rd century BC that the Greeks accepted the Round Earth, and even then they were the only culture to accept it as the true shape of the world. All Middle Eastern cultures back in those days believed in a flat earth; it would be a strange coincidence that the Hebrews were the only ones to adopt this lie thousands of years earlier, especially when you consider the Biblical verses that suggest a flat Earth.

Another thing to consider is that the various texts that make up the Bible were originally written by Bronze Age and early Iron Age people.  Not necessarily the folks that I would go to for a state of the art cosmological model.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 27, 2016, 04:55:20 PM

3. What most likely happened was similar to a vision. Satan took Jesus to a high mountain and through a vision or something similar show'd him all of the kingdoms.

The Christian FEers who reference that passage seem to respond by pointing out that there would be no need to specify high mountain if it was merely a vision: that the passage makes a big deal out of altitude.

My take is that satan wanted to build up his own ego by taking Jesus to the mountain. There's a reason why satanists like to go to high places.

They do? Like where? And what is the reason? Your post was very vague, just looking to clarify.

Really? That's your take? You do remember Satan works for God, right?

They do? Like where? And what is the reason? Your post was very vague, just looking to clarify.

It's mentioned in the Bible that pagan and satan worshipers would build groves and temples in the hills and mountains. Also you'll hear of cults in the Appalachian and Rocky Mountains.

Really? That's your take? You do remember Satan works for God, right?

Yet he thought he can overthrow him and have him now before him (the main reason why he show'd him all of the kingdoms in the first place). Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

No, your God has an ego problem like no one else.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 29, 2016, 02:43:08 PM

Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

No, your God has an ego problem like no one else.

My God created the very air you breathe. I think he deserves a little gratitude.

Quote from: FalseProphet on June 29, 2016, 03:26:28 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 29, 2016, 02:43:08 PM

Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

No, your God has an ego problem like no one else.

My God created the very air you breathe. I think he deserves a little gratitude.

This post can be considered preaching. No plus value.
Evidence of this? Why would a perfect god need gratitude anyway? He is perfect the way he is.

Quote from: FalseProphet on June 29, 2016, 03:26:28 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 29, 2016, 02:43:08 PM

Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

No, your God has an ego problem like no one else.

My God created the very air you breathe. I think he deserves a little gratitude.

No, photosynthizing bacteria created breathable air. You see what I mean with ego-problem?

It's mentioned in the Bible that pagan and satan worshipers would build groves and temples in the hills and mountains. Also you'll hear of cults in the Appalachian and Rocky Mountains.

Interesting. But lots of places of worship for all kinds of religions are built in hills and mountains, so that saying Satan worshipers are going to also do that is kinda like predicting there will be birds in the trees, no? Also, there's that song, Go Tell It On The Mountain. I think mountains and hills are pretty much used by people of every faith with regularity.

You'll also hear of Satanists in flat places. Like really flat and low, Florida for instance. Chicago, too (there's a lot of Satanists there I hear), and they're pretty flat.

No, photosynthizing bacteria created breathable air. You see what I mean with ego-problem?

And then there's this. A lot of truth to that statement, as far as I can tell.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 30, 2016, 09:06:30 AM

Quote from: FalseProphet on June 29, 2016, 03:26:28 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 29, 2016, 02:43:08 PM

Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

No, your God has an ego problem like no one else.

My God created the very air you breathe. I think he deserves a little gratitude.

This post can be considered preaching. No plus value.
Evidence of this? Why would a perfect god need gratitude anyway? He is perfect the way he is.

Well for one we are talking about the Bible so its kinda given that I'll be a little preachy. God doesn't need our gratitude but we should give it to him for setting everything in motion. From creating the earth to the gift of life. How many close calls to death have you experienced in your life?

Quote from: Göebbels on June 30, 2016, 12:11:02 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 30, 2016, 09:06:30 AM

Quote from: FalseProphet on June 29, 2016, 03:26:28 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 29, 2016, 02:43:08 PM

Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

No, your God has an ego problem like no one else.

My God created the very air you breathe. I think he deserves a little gratitude.

This post can be considered preaching. No plus value.
Evidence of this? Why would a perfect god need gratitude anyway? He is perfect the way he is.

Well for one we are talking about the Bible so its kinda given that I'll be a little preachy. God doesn't need our gratitude but we should give it to him for setting everything in motion. From creating the earth to the gift of life. How many close calls to death have you experienced in your life?

Are you saying that God created the close calls to death?  Why is he such a sadist? 

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 30, 2016, 04:28:14 PM

Quote from: Göebbels on June 30, 2016, 12:11:02 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 30, 2016, 09:06:30 AM

Quote from: FalseProphet on June 29, 2016, 03:26:28 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 29, 2016, 02:43:08 PM

Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

No, your God has an ego problem like no one else.

My God created the very air you breathe. I think he deserves a little gratitude.

This post can be considered preaching. No plus value.
Evidence of this? Why would a perfect god need gratitude anyway? He is perfect the way he is.

Well for one we are talking about the Bible so its kinda given that I'll be a little preachy. God doesn't need our gratitude but we should give it to him for setting everything in motion. From creating the earth to the gift of life. How many close calls to death have you experienced in your life?

Are you saying that God created the close calls to death?  Why is he such a sadist?

If you don't fear the gods, what reason would you have to believe in them?

claiming a flat earth and saying that space doesn't exist is belittling gods work

Claiming a God exists out of blind faith is belittling to the entire population of the Earth.

agreed 100%

@jroa

looking at your signature banner, I'm unsure as to what it's supposed to represent

are you under the impression that Hitler is in any way worse than a Pope?

If you are, you're very much mistaken

Hitler was an extreme idealist, not a good guy, killed thousands in war..
but the Vatican has single handedly repressed human progression, destroyed scientific research, ample paedophilia and have a large portion of the population displaying shocking amounts of delusion based on one of the more modern religions, they still control billions now

Hitler's dead, the Vatican still have a very unhealthy and dangerous stronghold on the world

the Vatican has single handedly repressed human progression, destroyed scientific research

Historically there were a number of conflicts between church and science, but grnerally the catholic church was an important patron of science.

Quote from: Johnorbital on July 03, 2016, 03:22:56 AM

the Vatican has single handedly repressed human progression, destroyed scientific research

Historically there were a number of conflicts between church and science, but grnerally the catholic church was an important patron of science.

accepted, but there was a mass destruction of knowledge a long time ago, imagine where we'd be now if it wasn't for that.......

the mass control with the bible is dangerous, taking it literally is the main problem

Quote from: FalseProphet on July 03, 2016, 03:48:38 AM

Quote from: Johnorbital on July 03, 2016, 03:22:56 AM

the Vatican has single handedly repressed human progression, destroyed scientific research

Historically there were a number of conflicts between church and science, but grnerally the catholic church was an important patron of science.

accepted, but there was a mass destruction of knowledge a long time ago, imagine where we'd be now if it wasn't for that.......

the mass control with the bible is dangerous, taking it literally is the main problem

There was not really a "mass destruction of knowledge". Maybe you think about the destruction of the library of Alexandria, but that was not a significant event. It burned down several times in the course of history. There were plenties of libraries and numerous copies of the books stored there. Typically papyrus scrolls had a rather low life span, so to pass on knowledge they had to be copied continuously. This ceased to be done due to the decline of the Roman Empire. The monks were the only ones who continued copying texts, so we owe them a lot. The scientific knowledge of the Greeks never was forgotten throughout the Middle Ages, that's just a myth. Most churchfathers appreciated Greek "narural philosophy". They did oppress parts of pagan literature though, that didn't fit in their moral or religious framework, like most of Ancient Greek belles lettres. So the loss induced by the church was a cultural rather than a scientific one.

I'll leave it there, I don't really do religious debates, I was brought up Catholic Christian myself, but it's not a subject I enjoy talking about

religious people are usually nice people, I hate thinking I'm offending someone who means no offense

I'm not a friend of any church, I just bow to reality and happily disregard my agenda when it comes to facts.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 30, 2016, 04:28:14 PM

Quote from: Göebbels on June 30, 2016, 12:11:02 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 30, 2016, 09:06:30 AM

Quote from: FalseProphet on June 29, 2016, 03:26:28 PM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 29, 2016, 02:43:08 PM

Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

No, your God has an ego problem like no one else.

My God created the very air you breathe. I think he deserves a little gratitude.

This post can be considered preaching. No plus value.
Evidence of this? Why would a perfect god need gratitude anyway? He is perfect the way he is.

Well for one we are talking about the Bible so its kinda given that I'll be a little preachy. God doesn't need our gratitude but we should give it to him for setting everything in motion. From creating the earth to the gift of life. How many close calls to death have you experienced in your life?

Are you saying that God created the close calls to death?  Why is he such a sadist?

He doesn't create (for the most part), he allows. In fact he intervines so that way its a close call and not something that actually kills you. Though I would like to say that some people only learn by close calls.

Satan has an ego problem like no one else.

I can think of someone else.