The Bible and flat earth.

Alright, it's been touched on here and there but no one recently made a thread discussing it. I challenge anyone to prove that the Bible speaks of a flat earth without any doubt and within context. Only use the KJV for reference that way we are on the same page.

I can't use the pamphlet issued by my local cult?

It has pop-up pages and cool rhymes.

Page 7:

"imaginary friends are really cool,
if you don't believe me you're a fucking fool"

KJV was translated through something like 6 or 7 languages.  Why not only use the original, not what a medieval king said is the right translation? 

Page 13:

Don't drink wine, don't eat crackers,
shape of Earth doesn't even matter.

Page 2:

Everything in this leaflet is true.

I can't use the pamphlet issued by my local cult?

No, sorry.

KJV was translated through something like 6 or 7 languages.  Why not only use the original, not what a medieval king said is the right translation?

Because nobody has the original. What people have is copied manuscripts. Besides, what original are you talking about? Wait a minute, this is off topic, just stick with the KJV for now and this thread. It'll save people time looking for the original.

© 483 days before your book.

It makes more sense for you to use your interpretation of an old English book that was translated from a half a dozen other languages than to just use the original?  Are you high? 

Wait a minute, this is off topic, just stick with the KJV for now and this thread. It'll save people time looking for the original.

So, we can only use words from your play?

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 22, 2016, 10:06:04 AM

Wait a minute, this is off topic, just stick with the KJV for now and this thread. It'll save people time looking for the original.

So, we can only use words from your play?

My thread, my rules. If you don't like them then make your own. I don't even know what pamphlet you're quoting from.

Does his pamphlet need to be written by a medieval English king from a half dozen translations in order for you to recognize it? 

It makes more sense for you to use your interpretation of an old English book that was translated from a half a dozen other languages than to just use the original?  Are you high?

Are you? Which original are you talking about and how many households have it? Like I said for sake of the thread we are going to use the KJV. Don't like it? Then start another thread instead derailing mine.

Does his pamphlet need to be written by a medieval English king from a half dozen translations in order for you to recognize it?

You do realize the the translators had at least a hundred years of collective study right? For the third time if you don't like it then go start your own thread.

You do realize that the original stories where thousands of years old before people invented writing in order to put in on paper, where it was translated many times to come to your old English KJV, which you will interpret in order to fit your agenda, right? 

Although this article doesn't strictly follow Luke's "KJV only rules" it has a great deal of information about why the bible is a flat earth book. https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm  It's really interesting to read, whether you are FE or RE.

Although this article doesn't strictly follow Luke's "KJV only rules" it has a great deal of information about why the bible is a flat earth book. https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm  It's really interesting to read, whether you are FE or RE.

Pick one of the verses and we'll discuss it.

My thread, my rules. If you don't like them then make your own. I don't even know what pamphlet you're quoting from.

I am writing the text as we speak.

Once written it shall have been written, and once written it shall be read.
Read it and weep or rejoice, plus it will be bound in leather
and have gold leaf doo-dads on the cover.

3 1/8" x 3 1/8" of gold leaf costs about $1.50 and dazzles the crap out of idiots.

I'll probably add some thunder and death to scare the kids.
Gotta get the kids before they start thinking.

I'll number every sentence so it appears awesome and thought out.
I'll print it on parchment so it looks important.

Yadda yadda yadda, so forth and hitherto and such.



Working out the details.

You're gunna dump your paradigm and dive head first into this.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 22, 2016, 11:24:34 AM

Although this article doesn't strictly follow Luke's "KJV only rules" it has a great deal of information about why the bible is a flat earth book. https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm  It's really interesting to read, whether you are FE or RE.

Pick one of the verses and we'll discuss it.

Well, I realized you wouldn't read the article when I posted it because it's not from Answers in Genesis, but there are others who like to learn things.

Another great work that talks extensively on the bible as a Flat Earth book - and that takes into account the original hebrew is Terra Firma by David Wardlaw Scott.

https://archive.org/details/cu31924031764594

Alright, it's been touched on here and there but no one recently made a thread discussing it. I challenge anyone to prove that the Bible speaks of a flat earth without any doubt and within context. Only use the KJV for reference that way we are on the same page.

What about the verse where they mention "circle of the earth"?

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 22, 2016, 11:31:49 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 22, 2016, 11:24:34 AM

Although this article doesn't strictly follow Luke's "KJV only rules" it has a great deal of information about why the bible is a flat earth book. https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm  It's really interesting to read, whether you are FE or RE.

Pick one of the verses and we'll discuss it.

Well, I realized you wouldn't read the article when I posted it because it's not from Answers in Genesis, but there are others who like to learn things.

No I've read it, but to save a long text response I'm giving you the opportunity to pick out the most convincing and we can discuss it. The problem is not that you linked to something, the problem is I can't respond to all of it. I'm not saying its all false or else I would be obligated to respond to all of it.

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 22, 2016, 09:33:15 AM

Alright, it's been touched on here and there but no one recently made a thread discussing it. I challenge anyone to prove that the Bible speaks of a flat earth without any doubt and within context. Only use the KJV for reference that way we are on the same page.

What about the verse where they mention "circle of the earth"?

A true 2D circle doesn't exist anywhere in the real world. So it wouldn't be accurate to say that the earth is a 2D object. However the perfect representation of a circle is a sphere since no matter where you are you are standing on an infinate amount of circles.

Quote from: Göebbels on June 22, 2016, 11:58:01 AM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 22, 2016, 09:33:15 AM

Alright, it's been touched on here and there but no one recently made a thread discussing it. I challenge anyone to prove that the Bible speaks of a flat earth without any doubt and within context. Only use the KJV for reference that way we are on the same page.

What about the verse where they mention "circle of the earth"?

But in the bible says "circle". I wasn't asking it there is a real representation. There it says circle, not sphere.

A true 2D circle doesn't exist anywhere in the real world. So it wouldn't be accurate to say that the earth is a 2D object. However the perfect representation of a circle is a sphere since no matter where you are you are standing on an infinate amount of circles.

But I wasn't asking if there is a true representation of a sphere. In the bible it says "circle", not sphere.

Here's a few for the pile. Sorry they aren't KJV.

The Earth "is founded upon the seas and established upon the floods" Psa xxiv. 2

God's own hand "hath laid the foundations of the Earth" - Isa xlviii 13

"Who laid the foundations of the earth,
That it should not be moved for ever
Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a vesture;
The waters stood above the mountains,
..." Psa civ 5-8

"God said Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so. And god called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas" Gen i, 9, 10



You are certainly wrong though when you say things like the "KJV" translators knew what they were doing. Mistakes happen in it all the time. For example, take Genesis 1:2

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

When we look to the hebrew at "and the earth was without form and void" we get this:

ve-he-arets hiteh tehu ve-behu

Which translates word by word to

ve-he-arets: and the earth
hiteh: BECAME
tehu: without form
ve-behu: and void

Giving us the proper translation:
"and the earth BECAME without form and void"

The difference here as Wardlaw points out is that the earth was not originally created without  void but it gained this quality according to the Word of God. This is seen to be the case due to Isa. xlv 18

"For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens. He is God, that formed the earth and made it; He established it, He created it not without form (tehu) ..."

or in KJV: "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain..." again we see this entire piece mistranslated due to changing the meaning of the word tehu and introducing an inconsistency between Genesis and Isa. In vain? really? No, without form. He is clearly talking of the creation and referencing Genesis.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 22, 2016, 11:52:04 AM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 22, 2016, 11:31:49 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 22, 2016, 11:24:34 AM

Although this article doesn't strictly follow Luke's "KJV only rules" it has a great deal of information about why the bible is a flat earth book. https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm  It's really interesting to read, whether you are FE or RE.

Pick one of the verses and we'll discuss it.

Well, I realized you wouldn't read the article when I posted it because it's not from Answers in Genesis, but there are others who like to learn things.

No I've read it, but to save a long text response I'm giving you the opportunity to pick out the most convincing and we can discuss it. The problem is not that you linked to something, the problem is I can't respond to all of it. I'm not saying its all false or else I would be obligated to respond to all of it.

Convincing of what? The article lays out all the arguments that the bible authors believed the earth flat. I'm not sure what you want to debate. I don't use the bible as proof the earth is flat, but it is proof the ancient Hebrews believed it was.

Another issue with KJV is it doesn't preserve the names in Genesis. For example, we see in Chapter 1 the entirety is using God. In the original, we see "Elohim" being used and then secondary "Jehovah-Elohim".

Elohim, if I take Wardlaw and his citation from Rev. J. M. Denniston properly and he is correct, denotes plurality highlighting him as creator of the universe. Once Adam exists, then Jehovah-Elohim is used - the self-existing God with a covenant with Adam.

This solves the issue concerning two authors of Genesis. He also touches on the issue of the ages quite a bit. I think he has another non-flat book out there concerning just this that I have yet to acquire.

My knowledge on this isn't very deep though and mostly has been picked up through flat earth texts. False Prophet might be able to shine some light on this. Didn't he say he was a translator?


All this is aside the point, as I feel Genesis depicts it fine enough in KJV.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Note he is clearly not saying (at least in KJV) that the waters are within the firmament or outside the firmament. They are above and below. To be below a spherical firmament means to be outside of the firmament. To be above it as well means to be outside of it. This makes no sense! The only interpretation that makes this sensible is the one in which the firmament is flat and thus has an 'above' and a 'below.'

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 22, 2016, 12:04:45 PM

Quote from: Göebbels on June 22, 2016, 11:58:01 AM

Quote from: Luke 22:35-38 on June 22, 2016, 09:33:15 AM

Alright, it's been touched on here and there but no one recently made a thread discussing it. I challenge anyone to prove that the Bible speaks of a flat earth without any doubt and within context. Only use the KJV for reference that way we are on the same page.

What about the verse where they mention "circle of the earth"?

But in the bible says "circle". I wasn't asking it there is a real representation. There it says circle, not sphere.

A true 2D circle doesn't exist anywhere in the real world. So it wouldn't be accurate to say that the earth is a 2D object. However the perfect representation of a circle is a sphere since no matter where you are you are standing on an infinate amount of circles.

But I wasn't asking if there is a true representation of a sphere. In the bible it says "circle", not sphere.

Which wouldn't describe a flat earth either. If it did then it would've said disc or cylinder since those actually exists. Plus neither shapes are perfect circles in all dimensions. You have a ring going around and two large flat sides. So the KJV is correct in saying circle OF the earth.

Note to mods: is there anyway to link to YouTube videos without them being in a window here? It kinda takes up my sig.