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So they're all lying are they?

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Flyer

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So they're all lying are they?
« on: June 21, 2016, 09:53:10 AM »
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Bullwinkle

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2016, 11:56:12 AM »
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Username

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2016, 11:58:27 AM »
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inquisitive

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2016, 01:11:33 PM »
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Copper Knickers

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2016, 02:14:33 PM »
Quote from: John Davis on June 21, 2016, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: Flyer on June 21, 2016, 09:53:10 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36587252
He likely doesn't know he's been duped, or is simply mistaken.

Hilarious. I'm beginning to think you're a troll, John. You claim that someone has been fooled, or mistakenly believes, that they have spent 6 months orbiting the earth? Any, just any, evidence that this was the case?
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Ex-Globe

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2016, 02:38:13 PM »
The closer shots of the ISS are dark and grainy, low res. because its in a neutral buoyancy lab, ie swimming pool.

It has to be low res. to disguise the fact that the field of view is very limited in water, the view gets murky very close up.
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Kami

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2016, 02:48:27 PM »
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JohnRozz

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2016, 02:52:17 PM »


I have slight more respect for the old guys. I mean, enough is enough, and they where ASHAMED. it's HUMAN.

nowaday astronuts freemasons scum have none of the same shame.

better actors, but scumbags nonetheless.

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Username

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2016, 03:00:26 PM »
Quote from: inquisitive on June 21, 2016, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: John Davis on June 21, 2016, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: Flyer on June 21, 2016, 09:53:10 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36587252
He likely doesn't know he's been duped, or is simply mistaken.
Your reasoning please.
I'd prefer to assume err of man over malice. As such I lean towards explanations that don't involve each and every person lying.

He could also be mistaken about the shape of the Earth. As Zeteticist (not Flatist mind you) Ferrari pointed out if space is curved as Einstein suggests then a flat planet may well appear rounded from space. Testimony from Mr. Blue Marble reveals that satellite data also indeed says the earth is flat and that it must be stitched together to look like a round earth - much like how flat images taken from planes are stitched together for Google Earth.

He could also be lying. The payoff for astronauts is ridiculous. Aside from having every single woman on Earth swoon at you even if you are hideous like Buzz Aldrin, you never have to worry about anything every again for one small lie - all while being a patriot to your country. If not? Then perhaps the ship has an unfortunate accident. Or you get wiped off the face of the earth swiftly.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2016, 03:16:19 PM »
Quote from: Ex-Globe on June 21, 2016, 02:38:13 PM
The closer shots of the ISS are dark and grainy, low res. because its in a neutral buoyancy lab, ie swimming pool.

It has to be low res. to disguise the fact that the field of view is very limited in water, the view gets murky very close up.


Get out your cheapest binoculars or your high-budget telescope.

http://heavens-above.com/


Don't argue FE if you can't.
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Kami

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2016, 03:19:30 PM »
I strongly claim that making a man believe he spent the last 6 months in space is impossible. For starters, the missing gravity would be quite hard to account for.

Einsteins theory of GR was postulated and verified using a RE-model. Spacetime might be curved, but a mass as little as the earth does not curve it very much, light is barely affected by it. Even the sun bends light to a maximum of only 1,75 arcseconds, and it is way more massive than the earth.

If RE is true, every astronaut has to be a liar.
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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2016, 03:28:32 PM »
Quote from: Kami on June 21, 2016, 03:19:30 PM
I strongly claim that making a man believe he spent the last 6 months in space is impossible. For starters, the missing gravity would be quite hard to account for.

Einsteins theory of GR was postulated and verified using a RE-model. Spacetime might be curved, but a mass as little as the earth does not curve it very much, light is barely affected by it. Even the sun bends light to a maximum of only 1,75 arcseconds, and it is way more massive than the earth.

If RE is true, every astronaut has to be a liar.
You cannot say it was postulated using a RE-model. After all, did he not say - to paraphrase - 'the secret to ingenuity is hiding your sources' ?
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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2016, 03:29:26 PM »
Quote from: Kami on June 21, 2016, 03:19:30 PM

If RE is true, every astronaut has to be a liar.
I think you meant is not true. This is not the case. You have to accept there are other models theoretically out there (even if they aren't discovered) that have been missed due to razors like Ockham's. I call this the principle of additional solutions. It was known though to many others.
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Kami

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2016, 03:34:36 PM »
Okay, let me reformulate:

RE theory is the only theory so far which can explain spaceflights. (In fact, pretty much everything that happens in our solar system is consistent with RE).

GR predicted a deviation in the orbit of mercury by 43'' per century, which was later verified. Also it predicted that light around the sun bent 1.75'', which was also verified later. Those two phenomena were postulated using RE theory and matched visual observations. They are the reasons why GR is widely accepted nowadays. So I guess one can say that a round earth is one of the base assumptions of GR.
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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2016, 03:37:31 PM »
Quote from: Kami on June 21, 2016, 03:19:30 PM
I strongly claim that making a man believe he spent the last 6 months in space is impossible. For starters, the missing gravity would be quite hard to account for.

Its hard to be in an inertial frame of reference? Or a pseudo-inertial frame? I doubt this greatly. I think you underestimate the ingenuity of man. They have years of reference for this, based on tests presuming to prepare those for space. By some of the most brilliant engineers in our generations.
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Kami

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2016, 12:43:49 AM »
Might be. If you have an idea how to create one, I would love to hear it, I can not think of one to be honest. At least not for a long amount of time.
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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2016, 02:07:04 PM »
A centrifuge comes to mind. Free-fall does as well.
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Kami

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2016, 02:13:16 PM »
There is no way a centrifuge can create a system without inner Gravitation. At least none i know of or could imagine.

As for free Fall, in which direction should the Individualität Fall? Keep in mind that this Fall has to be sustained for six months.
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GlaringEye

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2016, 02:14:59 PM »
Free fall for six months non stop? The only possibility for that would be one flat earth believers are sure to be impossible...
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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2016, 02:24:33 PM »
I'm not an engineer for NASA, solving the actual problem is likely beyond my means. They would have certainly look into this though for training purposes at the very least which gives a nice mask to make their work on it seem legitimate.

I'm not saying its what is happening, but its certainly reasonable enough.

There have even been others that have suggested NASA has been working on anti-grav for a while. Here we have them begging to call it something less noticeable: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/brave_new_world/2002/10/feeling_antigravitys_pull.html
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Kami

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2016, 03:09:30 PM »
If someone discovered means to create antigravity, that would be huge. Like, really huge.
Sure, the guys at nasa are intelligent ant Creative, but they can not Defy the laws of physics.
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ibelle42

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2016, 08:37:51 PM »
Quote from: John Davis on June 21, 2016, 03:00:26 PM
Quote from: inquisitive on June 21, 2016, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: John Davis on June 21, 2016, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: Flyer on June 21, 2016, 09:53:10 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36587252
He likely doesn't know he's been duped, or is simply mistaken.
Your reasoning please.
I'd prefer to assume err of man over malice. As such I lean towards explanations that don't involve each and every person lying.

He could also be mistaken about the shape of the Earth. As Zeteticist (not Flatist mind you) Ferrari pointed out if space is curved as Einstein suggests then a flat planet may well appear rounded from space. Testimony from Mr. Blue Marble reveals that satellite data also indeed says the earth is flat and that it must be stitched together to look like a round earth - much like how flat images taken from planes are stitched together for Google Earth.

He could also be lying. The payoff for astronauts is ridiculous. Aside from having every single woman on Earth swoon at you even if you are hideous like Buzz Aldrin, you never have to worry about anything every again for one small lie - all while being a patriot to your country. If not? Then perhaps the ship has an unfortunate accident. Or you get wiped off the face of the earth swiftly.

When you get inside a contraption situated on top of many tons of rocket fuel, where do you figure you're going?  I've watched space shuttle launches in Florida.  They sure went up, up and away.  And then they came back.  Same folks, same shuttle.  Where do you figure they went?
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Username

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2016, 09:03:16 AM »
Government organizations withhold scientific advances all the time. I recall, but can't bring to mind now, but I believe it was asymmetric cryptography with public keys. Much later someone got an award for discovering it independently, but I'd say the advance was as notable as something that fights gravity.
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Kami

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2016, 09:24:56 AM »
Well, the government has huge organizations working on cryptography (mainly NSA, I suppose). However, most research on theoretical physics is done in non-governmental universities.
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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2016, 09:53:38 AM »
I'd be interested in seeing where you got this from.
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Kami

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2016, 09:58:54 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on June 23, 2016, 09:53:38 AM
I'd be interested in seeing where you got this from.
The cryptography part? Wild guess. Cryptography is very important for every intelligence agency, and the USA happen to have some of them.

The theoretical physics part? Personal experience. I have read some books and papers, every publisher was doing research at a university. Guess the government is not that interested in fundamental (pure? don't know the exact word. The one without any applications) research. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_theoretical_physicists
Feel free to click random names :)
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Lowezar

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2016, 03:39:42 PM »
Quote from: John Davis on June 22, 2016, 02:07:04 PM
A centrifuge comes to mind. Free-fall does as well.
Oh the irony. They are actually free-falling... For long periods of time. It's called being in an orbit.
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Username

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Re: So they're all lying are they?
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2016, 09:26:50 AM »
Quote from: Kami on June 23, 2016, 09:58:54 AM
Quote from: John Davis on June 23, 2016, 09:53:38 AM
I'd be interested in seeing where you got this from.
The cryptography part? Wild guess. Cryptography is very important for every intelligence agency, and the USA happen to have some of them.

The theoretical physics part? Personal experience. I have read some books and papers, every publisher was doing research at a university. Guess the government is not that interested in fundamental (pure? don't know the exact word. The one without any applications) research. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_theoretical_physicists
Feel free to click random names :)
Ahh, but where they happen to work says little about the funding for their work.  20% of science is done in academia and 10% by the government.  The rest is private sector. I have to wonder how much of that 20% of science, and likely the much smaller percentage that goes into theoretical physics is funded by private or government sources.

That said, seems like we are talking about something with a ridiculous amount of applications and the government has funded research on it in the past.
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