"Eye level"

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"Eye level"
« on: June 17, 2016, 10:35:41 PM »
What do people mean when they say " the horizon is always at eye level "?

I mean, everything you see is at 'eye level'.
'Eye Level' of a 7' tall person is different than eye level of a 5' tall person right?


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Rayzor

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2016, 10:44:52 PM »
What do people mean when they say " the horizon is always at eye level "?

I mean, everything you see is at 'eye level'.
'Eye Level' of a 7' tall person is different than eye level of a 5' tall person right?


Walk up a hill,  as you approach the top the "horizon"  ( the road ahead  ) appears to be above you,   then as you get to the top of the hill the "horizon"  ( the road ahead )  appears to be below you, so the flat earth argument is that since we appear to see the horizon  somewhat at out own level,  the earth must be flat. 

Of course the argument is brain damaged,  it just fails to appreciate the size of the earth, and exactly how high you have to be before the horizon appears to be below the horizontal line of sight.   When you get a few hundred miles up it becomes obvious.



Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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getrealzommb

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2016, 05:47:03 AM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment, the results favor a Spherical model.   8)

I am attempting to measure the dip to the horizon and the accosiated distance to prove a globe model.
An observer close to Earths surface can only see a limited area, bounded by a circle centered on the observer. This circle is called the horizon.

In the spherical Earth model a point on this circle is slightly below the plane drawn through the observer and perpendicular to a line from the observer to the center of the Earth. The angle between this plane and the line from the observer to a point on the horizon is called the dip of the horizon.

In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)

I decided to get hold of a theodolite and make some measurements across a bay in south wales The area has some costal cliffs, And a set of ramps/steps down to the beach . I had a theodolite, and Altimeter, a 10m tape measure and I am measuring the angle the horizon is below the theodolite and the distance that the horizon is away.
The results I am going to show almost certainly show  that the Earth is (approximately) a sphere:

Experement 1

Measure the dip to the horizon at altitudes of 2,5,10,15, 20, 30 and 40 meters altitude
Theodolite set to standard atmosphere for all readings above 5m and sea level (1/7) setting for on the ground at the waters edge and 2 meter reading. remember we have to also allow for refraction, which was visually low on the day.

sea level    = 0.01- 0.03 degrees (reading unstable)
2  m    = 0.04 degrees
5  m   = 0.07 degrees
10 m  = 0.11 degrees
20 m  = 0.17 degrees
30 m  = 0.24 degrees
40 m = 0.32 (Horizon contrast not clear enough for accuracy as hazyness was present)

Experement 2

Measure the Distance to the Horizon in Kilometers from a known altitude

2m   = 4.67
5m   = 8.03
10m = 11.36
20m = 16.05
30m = 19.64
40m = 22.10

Extra
Measure the elevation angle of Polaris
Result: 51.42 degrees

Of course this will be ignored, or called fake.  :-*

More results to come soon, along with Pictures of ships over the horizon complete with measurements, two synchronized videos of sunsets from 2m and 30m altitude and other fun stuff!

Quick question to ponder. If I measured between 3 points in a triangle, why would the measured angles add up to more than 180 degrees?

Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2016, 09:22:06 AM »
What do people mean when they say " the horizon is always at eye level "?
= No matter how high you rise up into the air, your eyes will ALWAYS be able to see land far off in the distance.

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Blue_Moon

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2016, 12:38:21 PM »
What do people mean when they say " the horizon is always at eye level "?
= No matter how high you rise up into the air, your eyes will ALWAYS be able to see land far off in the distance.
But you'll have to look down more and more, because the earth is not an infinite flat plane. 
Aerospace Engineering Student
NASA Enthusiast
Round Earth Advocate
More qualified to speak for NASA than you are to speak against them

Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2016, 01:58:59 PM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment
Awesome! Thanks for exact numbers you measured. If you don't mind me asking, where exactly was this performed? A link to google maps or something would be great, thanks. :)

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getrealzommb

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2016, 04:27:14 PM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment
Awesome! Thanks for exact numbers you measured. If you don't mind me asking, where exactly was this performed? A link to google maps or something would be great, thanks. :)

Measurements were recorded at Tenby Beach, South Wales, in the UK.





https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Tenby+North+Beach/@51.6728491,-4.7005024,2179m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x486ecc81baee64d9:0x26f2ee1ea0d2c491!8m2!3d51.675908!4d-4.7004666
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 04:36:38 PM by getrealzommb »

Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2016, 04:37:36 PM »
What do people mean when they say " the horizon is always at eye level "?

I mean, everything you see is at 'eye level'.
'Eye Level' of a 7' tall person is different than eye level of a 5' tall person right?


Walk up a hill,  as you approach the top the "horizon"  ( the road ahead  ) appears to be above you,   then as you get to the top of the hill the "horizon"  ( the road ahead )  appears to be below you, so the flat earth argument is that since we appear to see the horizon  somewhat at out own level,  the earth must be flat. 

Of course the argument is brain damaged,  it just fails to appreciate the size of the earth, and exactly how high you have to be before the horizon appears to be below the horizontal line of sight.   When you get a few hundred miles up it becomes obvious.

You listen to this guy too much, you might end up taP DANCING OR SOME OTHER FUCKING SHIT...

Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2016, 04:39:32 PM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment, the results favor a Spherical model.   8)

I am attempting to measure the dip to the horizon and the accosiated distance to prove a globe model.
An observer close to Earths surface can only see a limited area, bounded by a circle centered on the observer. This circle is called the horizon.

In the spherical Earth model a point on this circle is slightly below the plane drawn through the observer and perpendicular to a line from the observer to the center of the Earth. The angle between this plane and the line from the observer to a point on the horizon is called the dip of the horizon.

In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)

I decided to get hold of a theodolite and make some measurements across a bay in south wales The area has some costal cliffs, And a set of ramps/steps down to the beach . I had a theodolite, and Altimeter, a 10m tape measure and I am measuring the angle the horizon is below the theodolite and the distance that the horizon is away.
The results I am going to show almost certainly show  that the Earth is (approximately) a sphere:

Experement 1

Measure the dip to the horizon at altitudes of 2,5,10,15, 20, 30 and 40 meters altitude
Theodolite set to standard atmosphere for all readings above 5m and sea level (1/7) setting for on the ground at the waters edge and 2 meter reading. remember we have to also allow for refraction, which was visually low on the day.

sea level    = 0.01- 0.03 degrees (reading unstable)
2  m    = 0.04 degrees
5  m   = 0.07 degrees
10 m  = 0.11 degrees
20 m  = 0.17 degrees
30 m  = 0.24 degrees
40 m = 0.32 (Horizon contrast not clear enough for accuracy as hazyness was present)

Experement 2

Measure the Distance to the Horizon in Kilometers from a known altitude

2m   = 4.67
5m   = 8.03
10m = 11.36
20m = 16.05
30m = 19.64
40m = 22.10

Extra
Measure the elevation angle of Polaris
Result: 51.42 degrees

Of course this will be ignored, or called fake.  :-*

More results to come soon, along with Pictures of ships over the horizon complete with measurements, two synchronized videos of sunsets from 2m and 30m altitude and other fun stuff!

Quick question to ponder. If I measured between 3 points in a triangle, why would the measured angles add up to more than 180 degrees?

Ignored because it is in error.

?

Woody

  • 1144
Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2016, 04:44:53 PM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment, the results favor a Spherical model.   8)

I am attempting to measure the dip to the horizon and the accosiated distance to prove a globe model.
An observer close to Earths surface can only see a limited area, bounded by a circle centered on the observer. This circle is called the horizon.

In the spherical Earth model a point on this circle is slightly below the plane drawn through the observer and perpendicular to a line from the observer to the center of the Earth. The angle between this plane and the line from the observer to a point on the horizon is called the dip of the horizon.

In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)

I decided to get hold of a theodolite and make some measurements across a bay in south wales The area has some costal cliffs, And a set of ramps/steps down to the beach . I had a theodolite, and Altimeter, a 10m tape measure and I am measuring the angle the horizon is below the theodolite and the distance that the horizon is away.
The results I am going to show almost certainly show  that the Earth is (approximately) a sphere:

Experement 1

Measure the dip to the horizon at altitudes of 2,5,10,15, 20, 30 and 40 meters altitude
Theodolite set to standard atmosphere for all readings above 5m and sea level (1/7) setting for on the ground at the waters edge and 2 meter reading. remember we have to also allow for refraction, which was visually low on the day.

sea level    = 0.01- 0.03 degrees (reading unstable)
2  m    = 0.04 degrees
5  m   = 0.07 degrees
10 m  = 0.11 degrees
20 m  = 0.17 degrees
30 m  = 0.24 degrees
40 m = 0.32 (Horizon contrast not clear enough for accuracy as hazyness was present)

Experement 2

Measure the Distance to the Horizon in Kilometers from a known altitude

2m   = 4.67
5m   = 8.03
10m = 11.36
20m = 16.05
30m = 19.64
40m = 22.10

Extra
Measure the elevation angle of Polaris
Result: 51.42 degrees

Of course this will be ignored, or called fake.  :-*

More results to come soon, along with Pictures of ships over the horizon complete with measurements, two synchronized videos of sunsets from 2m and 30m altitude and other fun stuff!

Quick question to ponder. If I measured between 3 points in a triangle, why would the measured angles add up to more than 180 degrees?

Ignored because it is in error.

Where is the error?

Is the methodology flawed?

Is the conclusion flawed?

Can you demonstrate why if the answer to the one or both of the questions above is yes?


Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2016, 04:55:43 PM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment, the results favor a Spherical model.   8)

I am attempting to measure the dip to the horizon and the accosiated distance to prove a globe model.
An observer close to Earths surface can only see a limited area, bounded by a circle centered on the observer. This circle is called the horizon.

In the spherical Earth model a point on this circle is slightly below the plane drawn through the observer and perpendicular to a line from the observer to the center of the Earth. The angle between this plane and the line from the observer to a point on the horizon is called the dip of the horizon.

In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)

I decided to get hold of a theodolite and make some measurements across a bay in south wales The area has some costal cliffs, And a set of ramps/steps down to the beach . I had a theodolite, and Altimeter, a 10m tape measure and I am measuring the angle the horizon is below the theodolite and the distance that the horizon is away.
The results I am going to show almost certainly show  that the Earth is (approximately) a sphere:

Experement 1

Measure the dip to the horizon at altitudes of 2,5,10,15, 20, 30 and 40 meters altitude
Theodolite set to standard atmosphere for all readings above 5m and sea level (1/7) setting for on the ground at the waters edge and 2 meter reading. remember we have to also allow for refraction, which was visually low on the day.

sea level    = 0.01- 0.03 degrees (reading unstable)
2  m    = 0.04 degrees
5  m   = 0.07 degrees
10 m  = 0.11 degrees
20 m  = 0.17 degrees
30 m  = 0.24 degrees
40 m = 0.32 (Horizon contrast not clear enough for accuracy as hazyness was present)

Experement 2

Measure the Distance to the Horizon in Kilometers from a known altitude

2m   = 4.67
5m   = 8.03
10m = 11.36
20m = 16.05
30m = 19.64
40m = 22.10

Extra
Measure the elevation angle of Polaris
Result: 51.42 degrees

Of course this will be ignored, or called fake.  :-*

More results to come soon, along with Pictures of ships over the horizon complete with measurements, two synchronized videos of sunsets from 2m and 30m altitude and other fun stuff!

Quick question to ponder. If I measured between 3 points in a triangle, why would the measured angles add up to more than 180 degrees?

Ignored because it is in error.

Where is the error?

Is the methodology flawed?

Is the conclusion flawed?

Can you demonstrate why if the answer to the one or both of the questions above is yes?

"In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)"

The horizon at any altitude known to man is at EYE LEVEL. Period, end of sentence...and there is no proof otherwise.


*

getrealzommb

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2016, 05:07:05 PM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment, the results favor a Spherical model.   8)

I am attempting to measure the dip to the horizon and the accosiated distance to prove a globe model.
An observer close to Earths surface can only see a limited area, bounded by a circle centered on the observer. This circle is called the horizon.

In the spherical Earth model a point on this circle is slightly below the plane drawn through the observer and perpendicular to a line from the observer to the center of the Earth. The angle between this plane and the line from the observer to a point on the horizon is called the dip of the horizon.

In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)

I decided to get hold of a theodolite and make some measurements across a bay in south wales The area has some costal cliffs, And a set of ramps/steps down to the beach . I had a theodolite, and Altimeter, a 10m tape measure and I am measuring the angle the horizon is below the theodolite and the distance that the horizon is away.
The results I am going to show almost certainly show  that the Earth is (approximately) a sphere:

Experement 1

Measure the dip to the horizon at altitudes of 2,5,10,15, 20, 30 and 40 meters altitude
Theodolite set to standard atmosphere for all readings above 5m and sea level (1/7) setting for on the ground at the waters edge and 2 meter reading. remember we have to also allow for refraction, which was visually low on the day.

sea level    = 0.01- 0.03 degrees (reading unstable)
2  m    = 0.04 degrees
5  m   = 0.07 degrees
10 m  = 0.11 degrees
20 m  = 0.17 degrees
30 m  = 0.24 degrees
40 m = 0.32 (Horizon contrast not clear enough for accuracy as hazyness was present)

Experement 2

Measure the Distance to the Horizon in Kilometers from a known altitude

2m   = 4.67
5m   = 8.03
10m = 11.36
20m = 16.05
30m = 19.64
40m = 22.10

Extra
Measure the elevation angle of Polaris
Result: 51.42 degrees

Of course this will be ignored, or called fake.  :-*

More results to come soon, along with Pictures of ships over the horizon complete with measurements, two synchronized videos of sunsets from 2m and 30m altitude and other fun stuff!

Quick question to ponder. If I measured between 3 points in a triangle, why would the measured angles add up to more than 180 degrees?

Ignored because it is in error.

Where is the error?

Is the methodology flawed?

Is the conclusion flawed?

Can you demonstrate why if the answer to the one or both of the questions above is yes?

"In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)"

The horizon at any altitude known to man is at EYE LEVEL. Period, end of sentence...and there is no proof otherwise.

I have just provided proof that it is below your eye level though by near .3 of a degree at 40m altitude and exponentially raising. Do you think you would notice .3 of a degree without any measuring device?

At 3000m altitude the horizon would be 1.7 degrees below your eye level.  you might start to notice that.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 05:14:13 PM by getrealzommb »

?

Woody

  • 1144
Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2016, 05:19:16 PM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment, the results favor a Spherical model.   8)

I am attempting to measure the dip to the horizon and the accosiated distance to prove a globe model.
An observer close to Earths surface can only see a limited area, bounded by a circle centered on the observer. This circle is called the horizon.

In the spherical Earth model a point on this circle is slightly below the plane drawn through the observer and perpendicular to a line from the observer to the center of the Earth. The angle between this plane and the line from the observer to a point on the horizon is called the dip of the horizon.

In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)

I decided to get hold of a theodolite and make some measurements across a bay in south wales The area has some costal cliffs, And a set of ramps/steps down to the beach . I had a theodolite, and Altimeter, a 10m tape measure and I am measuring the angle the horizon is below the theodolite and the distance that the horizon is away.
The results I am going to show almost certainly show  that the Earth is (approximately) a sphere:

Experement 1

Measure the dip to the horizon at altitudes of 2,5,10,15, 20, 30 and 40 meters altitude
Theodolite set to standard atmosphere for all readings above 5m and sea level (1/7) setting for on the ground at the waters edge and 2 meter reading. remember we have to also allow for refraction, which was visually low on the day.

sea level    = 0.01- 0.03 degrees (reading unstable)
2  m    = 0.04 degrees
5  m   = 0.07 degrees
10 m  = 0.11 degrees
20 m  = 0.17 degrees
30 m  = 0.24 degrees
40 m = 0.32 (Horizon contrast not clear enough for accuracy as hazyness was present)

Experement 2

Measure the Distance to the Horizon in Kilometers from a known altitude

2m   = 4.67
5m   = 8.03
10m = 11.36
20m = 16.05
30m = 19.64
40m = 22.10

Extra
Measure the elevation angle of Polaris
Result: 51.42 degrees

Of course this will be ignored, or called fake.  :-*

More results to come soon, along with Pictures of ships over the horizon complete with measurements, two synchronized videos of sunsets from 2m and 30m altitude and other fun stuff!

Quick question to ponder. If I measured between 3 points in a triangle, why would the measured angles add up to more than 180 degrees?

Ignored because it is in error.

Where is the error?

Is the methodology flawed?

Is the conclusion flawed?

Can you demonstrate why if the answer to the one or both of the questions above is yes?

"In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)"

The horizon at any altitude known to man is at EYE LEVEL. Period, end of sentence...and there is no proof otherwise.

OK. Can you provide something similar to what getrealzommb provided from you or someone else?

Do you notice he provided enough information so someone else can recreate his experiment and verify the results?  My guess if you do provide something it will be similar to what you have already provided.  You are someone else just saying something.

I am up for admitting I am wrong.  So if you are interested and have the time could you link your supporting evidence?

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rabinoz

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2016, 10:52:05 PM »
Ignored because it is in error.
Of course we know that everything the might be interpreted as against the Flat Earth is in error!
On "the other site" a very prominent member posted this: (note that the link will not work on this site)
Sea observations are invalid as a demonstration of curvature. Things do not sink on flat bodies of water. Read the appropriate topics, observations, and experiments in Earth Not a Globe if further interested
Need I say more?

Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2016, 11:49:16 PM »
What do people mean when they say " the horizon is always at eye level "?
= No matter how high you rise up into the air, your eyes will ALWAYS be able to see land far off in the distance.

Yeah, no shit.
So, this is some sort of 'proof' for a flat Earth?
I could be at Mount Everest and have the horizon "at eye level"
I could be at Death Valley and have the same result.
The horizon will always be "at eye level"... anything you see is at eye level. Always.

It's an elementary argument.
These 'catch phrases' for FE ers are terribly disturbing.

Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2016, 12:04:34 PM »
What do people mean when they say " the horizon is always at eye level "?
= No matter how high you rise up into the air, your eyes will ALWAYS be able to see land far off in the distance.
Yeah, no shit. So, this is some sort of 'proof' for a flat Earth?
No. 

*

Username

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2016, 12:07:32 PM »
On a globe if you rise the horizon will not meet your eye but recede downwards. Try it in google earth.

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getrealzommb

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2016, 12:22:30 PM »
On a globe if you rise the horizon will not meet your eye but recede downwards. Try it in google earth.

and I have measured as such. So Earth = Globe. Agreed.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2016, 12:24:23 PM »
^Needs more cancer.

Or more markjo?

Nobody fucking cares any more.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2016, 12:33:03 PM »
On a globe if you rise the horizon will not meet your eye but recede downwards. Try it in google earth.

A FEer using Google Earth as proof of something?

That's just silly.

Don't you know how silly that sounds?
--------------------------------------------------------
John, I'm pretty short. So, i will assume you are taller than me.
If we both stood with our noses touching the wall.
Then marked where our eyes met the wall.
Your eye level would be higher than mine right?

So, by definition (or lack thereof) "Eye Level" is a pretty terrible way to measure anything.

To add to that, I can look up or down. I look up, and my ceiling is at 'eye level'
I look down, and now my floor is.

It's a stupid catch phrase for FE ers. Means absolutely nothing.

*

Username

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2016, 02:17:41 PM »
The point is the horizon is due to perspective, not curvature. That is why it would be at eye level despite me being taller than you.

Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2016, 03:16:37 PM »
The point is the horizon is due to perspective, not curvature. That is why it would be at eye level despite me being taller than you.
Diagram please.

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LuggerSailor

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2016, 03:28:53 PM »
The point is the horizon is due to perspective, not curvature. That is why it would be at eye level despite me being taller than you.
Er, no. Perspective can not explain the "Loom" of lighthouses visible beyond the horizon. Nor can it explain the rising/dipping distance of lighthouses. http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/navigation/rising.htm

Also, if perspective is the reason for horizon effects, why do stars in constellations maintain their exact angular relationships as they rise or set?

LuggerSailor.
Sailor and Navigator.

Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2016, 04:54:30 PM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment, the results favor a Spherical model.   8)

I am attempting to measure the dip to the horizon and the accosiated distance to prove a globe model.
An observer close to Earths surface can only see a limited area, bounded by a circle centered on the observer. This circle is called the horizon.

In the spherical Earth model a point on this circle is slightly below the plane drawn through the observer and perpendicular to a line from the observer to the center of the Earth. The angle between this plane and the line from the observer to a point on the horizon is called the dip of the horizon.

In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)

I decided to get hold of a theodolite and make some measurements across a bay in south wales The area has some costal cliffs, And a set of ramps/steps down to the beach . I had a theodolite, and Altimeter, a 10m tape measure and I am measuring the angle the horizon is below the theodolite and the distance that the horizon is away.
The results I am going to show almost certainly show  that the Earth is (approximately) a sphere:

Experement 1

Measure the dip to the horizon at altitudes of 2,5,10,15, 20, 30 and 40 meters altitude
Theodolite set to standard atmosphere for all readings above 5m and sea level (1/7) setting for on the ground at the waters edge and 2 meter reading. remember we have to also allow for refraction, which was visually low on the day.

sea level    = 0.01- 0.03 degrees (reading unstable)
2  m    = 0.04 degrees
5  m   = 0.07 degrees
10 m  = 0.11 degrees
20 m  = 0.17 degrees
30 m  = 0.24 degrees
40 m = 0.32 (Horizon contrast not clear enough for accuracy as hazyness was present)

Experement 2

Measure the Distance to the Horizon in Kilometers from a known altitude

2m   = 4.67
5m   = 8.03
10m = 11.36
20m = 16.05
30m = 19.64
40m = 22.10

Extra
Measure the elevation angle of Polaris
Result: 51.42 degrees

Of course this will be ignored, or called fake.  :-*

More results to come soon, along with Pictures of ships over the horizon complete with measurements, two synchronized videos of sunsets from 2m and 30m altitude and other fun stuff!

Quick question to ponder. If I measured between 3 points in a triangle, why would the measured angles add up to more than 180 degrees?

Ignored because it is in error.

Where is the error?

Is the methodology flawed?

Is the conclusion flawed?

Can you demonstrate why if the answer to the one or both of the questions above is yes?

"In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)"

The horizon at any altitude known to man is at EYE LEVEL. Period, end of sentence...and there is no proof otherwise.

I have just provided proof that it is below your eye level though by near .3 of a degree at 40m altitude and exponentially raising. Do you think you would notice .3 of a degree without any measuring device?

At 3000m altitude the horizon would be 1.7 degrees below your eye level.  you might start to notice that.

No you didn't...you provided a SUBJECTIVE FUCKING INTERPRETATION of some fucking pictures...

*

getrealzommb

  • 894
  • We do actually live on a ball: But who cares?
Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2016, 05:05:49 PM »
I have recently (yesterday) performed an experiment, the results favor a Spherical model.   8)

I am attempting to measure the dip to the horizon and the accosiated distance to prove a globe model.
An observer close to Earths surface can only see a limited area, bounded by a circle centered on the observer. This circle is called the horizon.

In the spherical Earth model a point on this circle is slightly below the plane drawn through the observer and perpendicular to a line from the observer to the center of the Earth. The angle between this plane and the line from the observer to a point on the horizon is called the dip of the horizon.

In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)

I decided to get hold of a theodolite and make some measurements across a bay in south wales The area has some costal cliffs, And a set of ramps/steps down to the beach . I had a theodolite, and Altimeter, a 10m tape measure and I am measuring the angle the horizon is below the theodolite and the distance that the horizon is away.
The results I am going to show almost certainly show  that the Earth is (approximately) a sphere:

Experement 1

Measure the dip to the horizon at altitudes of 2,5,10,15, 20, 30 and 40 meters altitude
Theodolite set to standard atmosphere for all readings above 5m and sea level (1/7) setting for on the ground at the waters edge and 2 meter reading. remember we have to also allow for refraction, which was visually low on the day.

sea level    = 0.01- 0.03 degrees (reading unstable)
2  m    = 0.04 degrees
5  m   = 0.07 degrees
10 m  = 0.11 degrees
20 m  = 0.17 degrees
30 m  = 0.24 degrees
40 m = 0.32 (Horizon contrast not clear enough for accuracy as hazyness was present)

Experement 2

Measure the Distance to the Horizon in Kilometers from a known altitude

2m   = 4.67
5m   = 8.03
10m = 11.36
20m = 16.05
30m = 19.64
40m = 22.10

Extra
Measure the elevation angle of Polaris
Result: 51.42 degrees

Of course this will be ignored, or called fake.  :-*

More results to come soon, along with Pictures of ships over the horizon complete with measurements, two synchronized videos of sunsets from 2m and 30m altitude and other fun stuff!

Quick question to ponder. If I measured between 3 points in a triangle, why would the measured angles add up to more than 180 degrees?

Ignored because it is in error.

Where is the error?

Is the methodology flawed?

Is the conclusion flawed?

Can you demonstrate why if the answer to the one or both of the questions above is yes?

"In a FE model, many FEers claim that the horizon raises to eye level. (Impossible)"

The horizon at any altitude known to man is at EYE LEVEL. Period, end of sentence...and there is no proof otherwise.

I have just provided proof that it is below your eye level though by near .3 of a degree at 40m altitude and exponentially raising. Do you think you would notice .3 of a degree without any measuring device?

At 3000m altitude the horizon would be 1.7 degrees below your eye level.  you might start to notice that.

No you didn't...you provided a SUBJECTIVE FUCKING INTERPRETATION of some fucking pictures...

Please learn to read or get someone to read the post for you.

I took these measurements myself using a theodolite. You know, in the real world, with a proper scientific instrument.

Where is the "SUBJECTIVE FUCKING INTERPRETATION" you speak of? Hmmm..... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Oh and Hi Papa ::)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 05:16:43 PM by getrealzommb »

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markjo

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2016, 07:13:51 PM »
On a globe if you rise the horizon will not meet your eye but recede downwards. Try it in google earth.
I tried it on an ocean beach, and the horizon was most certainly below eye level and did appear to recede downwards.
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rabinoz

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2016, 11:17:29 PM »
The point is the horizon is due to perspective, not curvature. That is why it would be at eye level despite me being taller than you.
Red letter day! I agree with John Davis, but (there always seems to be caveat - all the fine print)  the horizon rises almost to eye-level due to perspective.

The actual (on the Globe) vertical distance from eye-level down to the horizon is (height of eyes) + (curvature of horizon below the local horizontal).

The "dip angle" down to the horizon is (height of eye above horizon)/(distance to horizon) and the horizon is a comparatively long distance away.
For an eye height of 30 m the horizon is (measured or calculated) about 20 km away, so this dip angle is still very small at 0.24°.
So I readily concede that the horizon rises almost to eye-level

Of course the Flat Earth has a problem here! There can be no real sharp horizon. The only thing limiting visibility is scattering in the atmosphere. For perfectly clear conditions (obviously nowhere near LA!) that limit due only Rayleigh scattering would be a blue haze up to 300 km away.
A flat earth could never show the sharp transition we see between sea and sky as in

Sailing Boat nearer and Buildings behind Visible Horizon

Forget half a city hidden behind visible horizon Tom Bishop of "the other place" says we are not allowed to use that as evidence of a Globe because thousands of minute waves might have piled up and hidden those buildings - or something like that!
So I won't even point that out, but I'll certainly use as evidence any "dip to the horizon" I can find!

Rowbotham even carefully points it out in See the chapter Tangental Horizon.
Then, of course, explains it away using fatuous arguments that would seem to imply that surveyors, ship's navigators (using celestial navigation) should not be using telescopes for accurate angle measurements.
Still any argument you can scrape up to explain away counter evidence is useful.

BTW We are getting to the end of an election campaign here and there seem to be a lot of similarities.  Nuff said!

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Username

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2016, 07:20:02 AM »
On a globe if you rise the horizon will not meet your eye but recede downwards. Try it in google earth.
I tried it on an ocean beach, and the horizon was most certainly below eye level and did appear to recede downwards.
How did you gain altitude on this beach? I've been on beaches, mountains and planes and they all showed a horizon that met my eye.

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getrealzommb

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Re: "Eye level"
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2016, 10:46:06 AM »
On a globe if you rise the horizon will not meet your eye but recede downwards. Try it in google earth.
I tried it on an ocean beach, and the horizon was most certainly below eye level and did appear to recede downwards.
How did you gain altitude on this beach? I've been on beaches, mountains and planes and they all showed a horizon that met my eye.

I measured it on a beach and my results suggest that it recedes downwards, although it was difficult to see with the eye.