New to flat earth! What is the motive of government agencies?

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on June 13, 2016, 01:21:48 PM

Quote from: John Davis on June 13, 2016, 01:11:11 PM

Also, it is believed by many the Flat Earth Society is the oldest continuous society in existence.

I suspect there are organisations older than 12 years.   

We are hardly 12 years old. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/featured/Flat-Earth-Historical-Figures-People

Johnson dated it before Rowbotham even, saying that Jesus himself was a member.

Wtf  This type of nonsense does not help your credibility

OK, thanks for the responses, but I still don't feel I have a concrete answer.

Lets say, ok, yes, NASA just want the money. Why do they need to keep everyone in the dark about the nature of the earth to siphon funds? Surely there are many other, more efficient ways to siphon money when you are a government. Ways that don't require large scale deception through media production. What do they gain when everyone believes the earth is round? What do they stand to lose if everyone realises it's flat?

You have to remember at the time, a lot was riding on the space race.

Was also during the space race that experiments proving the roundness of the earth made during the ancient times were forged and placed in textbooks? Or Newton's work on orbits?

You have to remember at the time, a lot was riding on the space race.

But if space travel wasn't possible, e.g. if the earth was flat, there wouldn't be a space race. 

Was also during the space race that experiments proving the roundness of the earth made during the ancient times were forged and placed in textbooks? Or Newton's work on orbits?

Could be, I can't speak to that. It is when the myth that people believed the Earth was Flat in the stupid ages came up. Among other things that are patently wrong and placed into our education system for political gain.

What experiments do you think 'prove' the roundness of the earth?

Quote from: John Davis on June 16, 2016, 11:10:56 AM

You have to remember at the time, a lot was riding on the space race.

But if space travel wasn't possible, e.g. if the earth was flat, there wouldn't be a space race.

They found out the Earth was Flat, in that scenario, after they faked the moon landing.

Quote from: Blue_Moon on June 16, 2016, 11:35:26 AM

Quote from: John Davis on June 16, 2016, 11:10:56 AM

You have to remember at the time, a lot was riding on the space race.

But if space travel wasn't possible, e.g. if the earth was flat, there wouldn't be a space race.

They found out the Earth was Flat, in that scenario, after they faked the moon landing.

...
......
I'm not sure if this fully entered your head or not, but orbits are not possible on a flat earth, and we've been putting artificial satellites into orbit since 1957. 

Quote from: GlaringEye on June 16, 2016, 11:34:53 AM

Was also during the space race that experiments proving the roundness of the earth made during the ancient times were forged and placed in textbooks? Or Newton's work on orbits?

Could be, I can't speak to that. It is when the myth that people believed the Earth was Flat in the stupid ages came up. Among other things that are patently wrong and placed into our education system for political gain.

What experiments do you think 'prove' the roundness of the earth?

Path of the sun, measured distances,no FE map, satellites.

Quote from: John Davis on June 16, 2016, 12:11:04 PM

Quote from: Blue_Moon on June 16, 2016, 11:35:26 AM

Quote from: John Davis on June 16, 2016, 11:10:56 AM

You have to remember at the time, a lot was riding on the space race.

But if space travel wasn't possible, e.g. if the earth was flat, there wouldn't be a space race.

They found out the Earth was Flat, in that scenario, after they faked the moon landing.

...
......
I'm not sure if this fully entered your head or not, but orbits are not possible on a flat earth, and we've been putting artificial satellites into orbit since 1957.

That's exactly what they want you to think.

I still do not see why there is such a focus on NASA.  The conspiracy would have needed to be going on for a very long time pre-dating NASA.

I posted a random paper before where they were using models for plate tectonics, Earth tide, tidal loading, tectonics and some others I can not think of right now.  The paper was about looking into errors of 5 mm or less in predictions.  The point I was trying to make is that using different models from different fields that were based on a RE resulted in errors of less than 5 mm.  Pretty accurate IMHO, considering that if the Earth was flat there should be rather large errors when combining different models to make predictions.

As given as evidence above showing scientist looking for an error of less then 5 mm most scientist involved in the Earth scientist are likely involved and publish fabricated papers to keep up the charade. Errors would resonate not only in the scientific field, but others.

HAM radio operators

Sailors and pilots that travel certain routes.  Including myself that have sailed to different areas. crossed the Pacific and Atlantic and for some reason the distances all added up.

Navies for a very long time has been training look outs using falsified information or let those look outs in on the secrete.

Navigators would have needed to be in on it, celestial navigation uses math that assumes a RE.

Companies involved in communications would need to be in on it.

Of course different countries from around the world would have needed to get on board, even those that do not get a long so well with the US. 

Geodetic surveyors would have needed be one of the first groups that needed to become part of the conspiracy.

I would imagine a semi-competent satellite TV installer would likely notice something odd.

Astronomers including amateurs would have to not notice anything or keep silent about it.

The conspiracy would need enforcers and a group dedicated to keep people silent who figured it out.

Unlike other organizations trying to keep a secrete this group seems to like to release a lot of information and make it readily available for scrutiny.  Just look at what NASA makes available beyond just press releases.  Live feeds, pictures, documents all available online. 

Here is an example: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/advSearch.jsp

Now try to find something like that for any organization that is widely accepted as trying to hide something from people.  What you will find is limited, lacks details or simply not available.

This conspiracy would have needed to start a rather long time before NASA was even thought of.  Then it would have needed to have been able to keep the secret for that time.   

I can't honestly say flat earth has ever really convinced me, I was just really curious about the supposed motive of the conspirators, and thought that here would be the place to ask. I specifically phrased my post and question to make it clear I'm not here to disrespect anyone. However it seems no one has a concrete idea apart from "sweet space money". At this point though, the monetary gain would not justify the cost of maintaining the conspiracy across multiple government agencies, comms companies, civilians and other none government entities, as woody states.

You have to remember at the time, a lot was riding on the space race.

And now it's $330B a year industry.   

Quote from: GlaringEye on June 16, 2016, 11:34:53 AM

Was also during the space race that experiments proving the roundness of the earth made during the ancient times were forged and placed in textbooks? Or Newton's work on orbits?

Could be, I can't speak to that. It is when the myth that people believed the Earth was Flat in the stupid ages came up. Among other things that are patently wrong and placed into our education system for political gain.

What experiments do you think 'prove' the roundness of the earth?

We don't need to go into space to get good evidence that the earth is not flat. Actually if you go further than I present here it would be close to proving that the shape had to be a sphere.

The method is simply to measure it with old fashioned things like surveyors chains and theodolites. More recently (at least since the 1970's) Electronic Distance Measuring equipment (starting with the old "Tellurometer" - yes, I've used one a bit!) has been available.

The assumptions are basically that degrees of longitude at a given latitude are the same all around the earth (this is essentially in the Flat Earth Wiki).

Now the actual measurements I am giving here are from current maps (Garmin GPS map for Australia) and Google Earth (for USA). I have not seen even Flat Earthers complain that these give the incorrect distances anywhere. I have personally made my own measurements in Australia (not exactly the same measurement, but close to the same latitude).

I have compared the West to East width of the USA and Australia at almost the same latitude (32.66°N for USA and 32.62°S for Australia).

The degree of longitude at Lat 32.7° across the USA is essentially the same distance as a degree of longitude at Lat -32.6° in Australia and this certainly does not fit on any flat earth we have seen. The discrepancies on the North Pole centred map commonly used are massive, so no great accuracy is needed to see which is correct.

Now so far you just have my word (and current maps) for this. I do have very similar similar results for old (well over 100 years) maps as in:
Flat Earth Debate / Measurements of the Earth Prove it cannot be Flat « on: May 04, 2016, 07:23:35 PM ».

Also anyone can check measurements like this in their own country. Just measure East-West distances on hopefully straight roads (I am sure USA have quite a few). I know car odometers are not perfectly accurate, but the results do not need to be very accurate.

So as far as I am concerned the measurements of the earth will not fit on a plane surface (OK surface of the earth can be regarded as non-Euclidean in 2-dimensions).

But of course, we have on this forum certain people who know better then anyone else in the world. They know the "Truth" and I'm sure they are busy now documenting their findings to show mankind what amazing and clever people they are. "Nobel Prize" for one is in their sights. Well, I'm waiting. and waiting and waiting and ..........still waiting. Come on guys, SHOW US YOUR PROOF."

I'm not even asking for proof one way or the other, I'm asking for supposed motive of the conspirators. I'll settle at "space money lol" but I was really hoping for a little more.

I'm not even asking for proof one way or the other, I'm asking for supposed motive of the conspirators. I'll settle at "space money lol" but I was really hoping for a little more.

Money motivates people all the time, why is it so lol for NASA?

Quote from: BadPixel on June 17, 2016, 12:20:10 PM

I'm not even asking for proof one way or the other, I'm asking for supposed motive of the conspirators. I'll settle at "space money lol" but I was really hoping for a little more.

Money motivates people all the time, why is it so lol for NASA?

Because they can't sustain a conspiracy of that magnitude for that long on that budget. 

why people talk like NASA is the only space agency?
didi you guy knows that many countrys have their own space projects?
and the private sector no goverment associated.


here a question that no one ever tried to answer, only silence!

That's been answered a bunch of times. It very well could be an international conspiracy. A good deal of those organizations piggy back on the US space efforts too. I'd do a search.

That's been answered a bunch of times. It very well could be an international conspiracy. A good deal of those organizations piggy back on the US space efforts too. I'd do a search.

So it's been answered a bunch of times with speculation of an international conspiracy. Not really an answer, is it? Evidence of said conspiracy?

Its pretty inherent in flat earth conspiracy theory. For example, the logo of the UN is the standard flat earth map as well as the logo for several other international organizations like the WHO. The UN hall of assembly also suspiciously looks like a dome hung with stars, another common flat earth depiction. It was worked on by Le Corbusier, a known occultist (and a great architect / thinker). The ISS is an international space station, and there is a wealth of evidence that space travel is a hoax.

Quote from: John Davis on June 20, 2016, 02:34:26 PM

That's been answered a bunch of times. It very well could be an international conspiracy. A good deal of those organizations piggy back on the US space efforts too. I'd do a search.

So it's been answered a bunch of times with speculation of an international conspiracy. Not really an answer, is it? Evidence of said conspiracy?

and plux, no way china , russia and EUA would cooperate in such thing.

Its pretty inherent in flat earth conspiracy theory. For example, the logo of the UN is the standard flat earth map as well as the logo for several other international organizations like the WHO. The UN hall of assembly also suspiciously looks like a dome hung with stars, another common flat earth depiction. It was worked on by Le Corbusier, a known occultist (and a great architect / thinker). The ISS is an international space station, and there is a wealth of evidence that space travel is a hoax.

That was really stupid in literally every aspect. 

Hi, as the title says, I am new to the flat earth theory, I don't currently believe it, but I'm open to new ideas. However, I'm always skeptical when these ideas require large scale multi agency cooperation on the part of governments. I just want to know what the motive of government agencies is. Why do they "cover up" the flat earth? What do they stand to gain from being among the few that know the truth?

Given the example of the moon landing, the motive here is to beat the Russian space agency to a moon landing with a convincing hoax, I haven't seen anything as simple and understandable relating to the flat earth, but I would really like to.

Thanks in advance for your responses!

https://www.spreaker.com/episode/8804514

Explains it all

Quote from: John Davis on June 20, 2016, 04:00:47 PM

Its pretty inherent in flat earth conspiracy theory. For example, the logo of the UN is the standard flat earth map as well as the logo for several other international organizations like the WHO. The UN hall of assembly also suspiciously looks like a dome hung with stars, another common flat earth depiction. It was worked on by Le Corbusier, a known occultist (and a great architect / thinker). The ISS is an international space station, and there is a wealth of evidence that space travel is a hoax.

That was really stupid in literally every aspect.

All flatties can do with this shit is retreat into the Grand Conspiracy.

Its pretty inherent in flat earth conspiracy theory. For example, the logo of the UN is the standard flat earth map as well as the logo for several other international organizations like the WHO. The UN hall of assembly also suspiciously looks like a dome hung with stars, another common flat earth depiction. It was worked on by Le Corbusier, a known occultist (and a great architect / thinker). The ISS is an international space station, and there is a wealth of evidence that space travel is a hoax.

I have to say, this made me chuckle. So the evidence for an international conspiracy is the UN logo and a 'suspicious looking' ceiling? Really? (The WHO is part of the UN, BTW). I love the way that not only are they conspiring, they feel compelled to give us little clues so that we know they are conspiring!

There's no evidence that space travel is a hoax for the reason that the evidence that it has happened and is happening is overwhelming. Can you explain how the evidence required for a conspiracy to be believed can be as flimsy as speculation about a logo yet the documentary evidence, first hand witnessing and everyday practical application of space travel can be dismissed? Seriously. I'm genuinely curious to know how you can weigh up those two bodies of evidence and come down on the side you do.

There's plenty more. Do you really expect me to recite every single proof of the conspiracy to each and every person that asks about it? Simply do some research on the matter. You'll be surprised with what you find.

I don't even tend towards a conspiracy in general. I'd rather believe folks are mistaken. However, this view is becoming less and less tenable as the new flatists pull up proof after proof of misconduct.

There's plenty more. Do you really expect me to recite every single proof of the conspiracy to each and every person that asks about it? Simply do some research on the matter. You'll be surprised with what you find.

I don't even tend towards a conspiracy in general. I'd rather believe folks are mistaken. However, this view is becoming less and less tenable as the new flatists pull up proof after proof of misconduct.

Provoke the truth
http://www.spreaker.com/user/provokethetruth

There's plenty more. Do you really expect me to recite every single proof of the conspiracy to each and every person that asks about it? Simply do some research on the matter. You'll be surprised with what you find.

I don't even tend towards a conspiracy in general. I'd rather believe folks are mistaken. However, this view is becoming less and less tenable as the new flatists pull up proof after proof of misconduct.

HUMM yes? because is not like FE try to show many proofs