Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?

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As the title says, what would constitute proof (for you) that the other side is correct?

For me, you would have to photograph "the edge" or put me on a ship that travels the circumference of Antarctica, and it takes many times longer than the globe suggests.  There may be other tests, also, but these are what I thought of

Or some whistleblower bringing proof of conspiracy.

How about you?

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OmegaTheAlmighty

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2016, 12:08:09 PM »
I would consider FE theory if people would explain things a bit better. For example, instead of just saying that the Earth is an infinite plane, explain how you know and provide some evidence. Instead of just saying the sun is composed of 'phlogiston', give some proof. You can't expect people to believe in your theory if you don't come up with a legitimate argument.

To actually convert me to FE theory, I would have to see the edge, and get an explanation for why we are the only flat planet.
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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2016, 04:37:06 PM »
Just a map, accurate one preferably oh and a gravitational equitation, an FE star chart would be nice  also.

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Blue_Moon

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 07:14:42 PM »
A better explanation for satellites and their motion. 
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rabinoz

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2016, 09:07:33 PM »
As the title says, what would constitute proof (for you) that the other side is correct?

For me, you would have to photograph "the edge" or put me on a ship that travels the circumference of Antarctica, and it takes many times longer than the globe suggests.  There may be other tests, also, but these are what I thought of

Or some whistleblower bringing proof of conspiracy.

How about you?
Some sound evidence for a Flat Earth that at present cannot explain numerous things I see and hear everyday, like the stars at night - sorry about that (but there is the clockwise rotation of the stars around the South Celestial Pole)!

I could give ten bits of "evidence" that I see with my own eyes:
  • While the horizon looks flat ( it does, simply because the earth is huge!) to me the look of the sky and the way the clouds move over the horizon look like a Globe.
  • On a clear day looking out to sea the sky-horizon interface is a sharp line (it is only about 5 km away!). On a flat earth it would have to fade into the distance with no distinct boundary.
  • The sun appears to rise from behind the horizon and appears to set behind the horizon.
  • The sun stays the same size as it arcs up and over the sky - actually it sometimes seems a bit little larger at sunrise and sunset.
  • The sun always appears to be a disk, though sometimes a bit distorted at sunrise and sunset.
  • The sun always rises due east and sets due west on each equinox - here, and I am told it happens all over the earth.
  • Likewise the moon appears to rise from behind the horizon and appears to set behind the horizon.
  • The moon stays the essentially[1] same size as it arcs up and over the sky - it sometimes seems a bit bigger at moonrise and moonset.
  • The moon always appears to show the same face wherever it is in the sky. (And from wherever we observe it - though we have to travel for this observation).
  • The full moon always appears to be a circle, though sometimes a bit distorted at moonrise and moonset.
Actually this list could be extended to the accuracy of prediction of sun and moon, rise and set times, variations apparent size of the moon, etc, etc.

These do not categorically PROVE that the earth is a Globe, but they do provide very strong visual evidence.

And none of this is direct evidence of a rotating earth, but I believe it is strong evidence of a Globe with a distant (that is far further than the earths size) sun and moon.

I have posted what I think is ONE proof in Measurements of the Earth Prove it cannot be Flat.

To convince me, I would at least these things explained, without the need for farcical hypotheses, complete coincidence and unrealistic ideas or perspective and then evidence that the earth really is flat!

But every day little things crop up that only have a logical explanation with the Heliocentric Globe. One just recently, the day is getting very slightly longer. Yes, it can now be easily measured.
Explanation, the tidal forces from the moon are gradually slowing the earth (reducing angular momentum) and adding angular monemtum to the moon increasing its distance from the earth and (paradoxically at first glance) slowing down its velocity.

But, little things like this crop up all the time.

[1] "I say essentially" because the size of the moon does vary slightly overnight as it is a little closer when overhead, and varies over the cycle quite considerably due to the ellipticity of its orbit. The apparent size of the sun varies a little over the year due to the ellipticity of its orbit too.

Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2016, 10:52:06 PM »
Proof of something that goes against my world view...

Hard to disagree with facts.

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Kami

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2016, 01:50:52 AM »
Simple. A model consistent with all observations. And ideally, an inconsistency in the globe model.

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Reveris

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2016, 03:50:23 AM »
I pretty much agree with what rabinoz posted. I'd like to see the edge of the earth on a FE model though. It sounds like it would be an amazing sight to behold.

Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2016, 01:20:16 PM »
As the title says, what would constitute proof (for you) that the other side is correct?
A convincing live video would suffice. 

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Kami

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2016, 02:36:57 PM »
As the title says, what would constitute proof (for you) that the other side is correct?
A convincing live video would suffice.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream
I bet this does not count as convincing? (Assuming you are a flat-earther)

Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2016, 09:24:01 AM »
As the title says, what would constitute proof (for you) that the other side is correct?
A convincing live video would suffice.

Something something fisheye something diffraction something something handwaving CGI...

But there's a live stream from the ISS, with several cameras.  And Felix Baumgartner's jump. 

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2016, 10:40:53 PM »

To convince me, I would at least [need] these things explained, without the need for farcical hypotheses, complete coincidence and unrealistic ideas or perspective and then evidence that the earth really is flat!



It doesn't mater what you think or feel or want.
We did not search you out and blast you with our ideas.

We owe you nothing.

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fill out the guest response card at the checkout desk.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2016, 03:43:52 PM »
As the title says,
what would constitute proof
you would have to photo - graph "the edge"
takes many times longer than the globe suggests.
There may be other tests,
Or some whistleblower bringing proof
How about you?


Don't drop the mike just yet.





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Username

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2016, 04:34:42 PM »
It would have to be inherently obvious to me in all points of my experience. I would have to have damned good reason to abandon my worldview - shed it - and take on another. Physically and Psychologically, this means a lot. That is a hurdle that should be recognized with any conversion. My life would have to better or have hope to better in some way.

More than that, I may have to see that the other point of view[nb]in this case the flat earth[/nb] is without worth - for it's a shit job. But I have to do it.

On the other hand, a conversion is the most sacred and blessed of things that anyone can experience - regardless of worldview. It should be on everybodies bucket list - it is one of the truly ineffable experiences that you may encounter. I'd be honoured and would celebrate seeing a new angle.

It's like falling in love. If you ask me if I can fall in love with another view - I would say no. But experience tells me one day there may be another. I loved the round earth. But she betrayed me. To change my view - I would have to see a new love. A better one that explained herself just a bit better.



« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 04:38:24 PM by John Davis »
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2016, 12:43:23 AM »
As the title says, what would constitute proof (for you) that the other side is correct?

You came here. You start. Don't demand answers.


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rabinoz

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2016, 03:06:15 AM »
As the title says, what would constitute proof (for you) that the other side is correct?

You came here. You start. Don't demand answers.

No-one is "demanding" answers. A question was asked, that is all. You don't have to answer.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2016, 03:26:21 AM »
You came here. You start. Don't demand answers.

No-one is "demanding" answers. A question was asked, that is all. You don't have to answer.



. . . you would have to photograph "the edge" or put me on a ship that travels the circumference of Antarctica,

Not a question - a demand.

I am right, you are wrong.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2016, 03:29:34 AM »
^ I f'd up the edit.


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disputeone

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2016, 03:46:33 AM »
As the title says, what would constitute proof (for you) that the other side is correct?

For me, you would have to photograph "the edge" or put me on a ship that travels the circumference of Antarctica, and it takes many times longer than the globe suggests.  There may be other tests, also, but these are what I thought of

Or some whistleblower bringing proof of conspiracy.

How about you?

I would need the flat earth model to make accurate predictions about our observations, more accurate than the heliocentric sphere model and GR.

Then I would accept a flat earth model, as would the larger scientific community.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2016, 04:01:29 AM »
I would need the flat earth model to make accurate predictions about our observations, more accurate than the heliocentric sphere model and GR.


Without Google, make a prediction about something.

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Kami

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2016, 05:07:26 AM »
I would need the flat earth model to make accurate predictions about our observations, more accurate than the heliocentric sphere model and GR.


Without Google, make a prediction about something.
On equinox, the sun will rise directly east and set directly west everywhere on earth.
When the sun sets at sea, it disappears behind the horizon.
There are 24hours of sunlight at antarctica in winter (northern hemisphere).
When there is winter in the northern hemisphere, australia, new zealand and so on will get more than 12hours of sunlight every day.
In the southern (and northern) hemisphere, the stars will rotate arond a fixed point in the sky.
Hurricanes in the southern and northern hemispheres spin in opposite directions.
I could go on..

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disputeone

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2016, 06:57:45 AM »
I would need the flat earth model to make accurate predictions about our observations, more accurate than the heliocentric sphere model and GR.


Without Google, make a prediction about something.

I predict you're gonna get bored of this soon.
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Whose narrative is it to not believe the government?

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Blue_Moon

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2016, 03:55:16 PM »
To change my world view I would simply only need to see so called astronauts enter a rocket, like the one in this picture...

 where there are no means of them exiting the rocket before lift off.
That's all I would need to see, physically.

As an added bonus but not necessarily a stipulation, I would like to suit a so called astronaut up and have him/her sit inside a chamber whilst I observe the atmosphere being evacuated from it to its maximum.

Either of those would make me change my entire stance on what this world is and space.
Am I asking too much?

You've never seen a shuttle getting ready to launch, have you?  About three hours beforehand, the astronauts board, and the entire process is broadcast.  The orbiter arm is still attached to allow for emergency egress, but you could see if they were walking across. 
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hoppy

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2016, 06:12:23 PM »
A better explanation for satellites and their motion.
The best explanation for satellites is that they are fake. The materials they are supposedly made from would burn up in the supposed conditions that they are in. Since satellites are fake there is no need to make up fake orbits at fantastic speeds, or invent geostationary orbits. Don't waste your time on it. You could be learning something real.
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Blue_Moon

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2016, 07:10:09 PM »
A better explanation for satellites and their motion.
The best explanation for satellites is that they are fake. The materials they are supposedly made from would burn up in the supposed conditions that they are in. Since satellites are fake there is no need to make up fake orbits at fantastic speeds, or invent geostationary orbits. Don't waste your time on it. You could be learning something real.

Then what are those little moving dots that I can see where satellites supposedly are?  Satellites don't burn because they're built to withstand heating from the sun, and the thermosphere is thin enough that it hardly transfers any heat, even though the temperatures of the individual particles are so high. 
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sceptimatic

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2016, 10:00:28 AM »
To change my world view I would simply only need to see so called astronauts enter a rocket, like the one in this picture...

 where there are no means of them exiting the rocket before lift off.
That's all I would need to see, physically.

As an added bonus but not necessarily a stipulation, I would like to suit a so called astronaut up and have him/her sit inside a chamber whilst I observe the atmosphere being evacuated from it to its maximum.

Either of those would make me change my entire stance on what this world is and space.
Am I asking too much?

You've never seen a shuttle getting ready to launch, have you?  About three hours beforehand, the astronauts board, and the entire process is broadcast.  The orbiter arm is still attached to allow for emergency egress, but you could see if they were walking across.
On TV, yes.
I've already stated my proof requirements.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2016, 10:16:43 AM »
Then what are those little moving dots that I can see where satellites supposedly are?

Naturally occurring near-earth objects.

Been known about for thousands of years but have been written out of the history of astronomy recently.

They have highly erratic orbits, so the US government pulled a couple of clever con-tricks in the 1950's called Operation Skywatch & Operation Moonwatch where they got dumb amateur astronomers to track as many as possible for them.

As soon as Operation Moonwatch gathered enough data, teh Rooskies launched 'Sputnik' & good old NASA could tell every fearful American where to look for it...

Then ask for trillions of bucks so they could keep up with teh Godless Commies in teh Shpayze-Rayze...

All-time classic con-job, 10/10, great work all round.
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Username

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2016, 11:18:37 AM »
Hurricanes in the southern and northern hemispheres spin in opposite directions.
I was under the impression that not every storm consistently displays this behavior.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Blue_Moon

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Re: Regardless of worldview, what would you need to change your mind?
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2016, 11:23:13 AM »
To change my world view I would simply only need to see so called astronauts enter a rocket, like the one in this picture...

 where there are no means of them exiting the rocket before lift off.
That's all I would need to see, physically.

As an added bonus but not necessarily a stipulation, I would like to suit a so called astronaut up and have him/her sit inside a chamber whilst I observe the atmosphere being evacuated from it to its maximum.

Either of those would make me change my entire stance on what this world is and space.
Am I asking too much?

You've never seen a shuttle getting ready to launch, have you?  About three hours beforehand, the astronauts board, and the entire process is broadcast.  The orbiter arm is still attached to allow for emergency egress, but you could see if they were walking across.
On TV, yes.
I've already stated my proof requirements.

Well, I've seen the shuttle launch in real life, and I can assure you that the crew is in there.  I also know of a video series on Youtube that shows the shuttle launch in slow motiom from various angles.  In one of them the helmet of one of the crew members can be seen through the window. 
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