Gravity on an infinite plane

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Kami

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2016, 02:39:02 AM »
Yes, there is no center, that is no contradiction to anything.

Okay, another approach: Imagine you stand on an infinite plane, which has a constant thickness and extends everywhere infinitely. Then no matter where you stand, the plane looks the same regardless of the direction you look. Now imagine this plane is split up in many cubes (like 1m^3 or so), then your gravitational attraction is the same as the sum of the attractions of the cubes. Now make the cubes smaller. And even smaller. In fact, infinitely small. Now you are integrating.

Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2016, 03:49:04 AM »
Work on your reading comprehension, your "math" breaks down long before the integrating, don't try to deflect the issue by assuming I don't know what integration is.

Before you can proudly flex those high school math muscles, learn to make correct assumptions (or maybe you made the wrong ones on purpose, so it looks a little more complex and believeable, so that the gullable morons on this forum actually think you got something).

I am not the one trying to will an object with infinite volumn, mass and gravity into existance.

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rabinoz

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2016, 04:23:14 AM »
Work on your reading comprehension, your "math" breaks down long before the integrating, don't try to deflect the issue by assuming I don't know what integration is.
Look, if John Davis and a few Globe supporters more or less agree, that's near enough to a miracle, so it must be correct!

No, I don't think the earth could be an infinite plane, take that up with John Davis, I think he is the only one considering the possibility.
But, I think you will find that the gravity it causes is quite finite and constant everywhere above the plane surface. It depends only on the mass density (ie mass per unit area as kg/m2) and not even on the depth.

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Kami

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2016, 04:38:02 AM »
PeKu, I am not saying that this infinite plane exists, and I do not believe it. I am just saying if it existed, then the gravitational pull would be finite.
Since I am writing my master's thesis in math, I hope that it is a little better than high-school level, although I am not completely familiar with the american educational system.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2016, 07:43:28 AM »
It is funny when round earth proponents argue with a round earth proponent that a flat earth concept can work.

So far this is the most reasonable explanation for gravity in the big bundle of ideas for a flat earth gravity. I don't know why there is not more adoption of it.
It explains gravitational fluctuations, gravity using existing science and can explain why it gets hotter the deeper you go.
It however does not explain orbits, any extra terrestrial bodies or sunsets.

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Kami

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2016, 10:31:34 AM »
It is funny when round earth proponents argue with a round earth proponent that a flat earth concept can work.

So far this is the most reasonable explanation for gravity in the big bundle of ideas for a flat earth gravity. I don't know why there is not more adoption of it.
It explains gravitational fluctuations, gravity using existing science and can explain why it gets hotter the deeper you go.
It however does not explain orbits, any extra terrestrial bodies or sunsets.
That pretty much sums it up. I think most people have a problem with the infinite mass aspect.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2016, 10:39:29 AM »
That pretty much sums it up. I think most people have a problem with the infinite mass aspect.

Infinity is scary. We have no idea of the size of our universe, we can only see 13 billion light years out and have no idea if there is an end to it.
There could be no end ever, there could literally be infinite mass out there. We just don't have the capacity to comprehend this.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2016, 10:40:53 AM »

So far this is the most reasonable explanation for gravity in the big bundle of ideas for a flat earth gravity. I don't know why there is not more adoption of it.

It's because UA was popular with a couple of the more active FE theorists. It kinda took over, and it was assumed, by most, that UA was the only explanation.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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MrDebunk

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2016, 09:49:30 PM »
I think (I don't know but I think) the objection to my reasoning is UA which is a popular theory among FEers. Let's just say that regular gravity works with this.

@John Davis and others believe Earth is a section of an infinite surface, and we are enclosed in a dome within the section. This  surface no matter how it is organized, will have infinite volume. No matter the density it will have infinite mass. Therefore it will have infinite gravity, which is absolutely impossible.
M R D E B U N K (the reboot)

Quote from: totallackofintelligence
You sound like shill.

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Kami

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2016, 06:42:30 AM »
@John Davis and others believe Earth is a section of an infinite surface, and we are enclosed in a dome within the section. This  surface no matter how it is organized, will have infinite volume. No matter the density it will have infinite mass. Therefore it will have infinite gravity, which is absolutely impossible.
Can you provide any maths to prove your statement?
And please refrain from using the center of mass argument, this is just an approximation for relatively small objects.
An infinite mass infinitely far away does not have infinite gravity.

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John Davis

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2016, 07:44:13 AM »
I think (I don't know but I think) the objection to my reasoning is UA which is a popular theory among FEers. Let's just say that regular gravity works with this.

@John Davis and others believe Earth is a section of an infinite surface, and we are enclosed in a dome within the section. This  surface no matter how it is organized, will have infinite volume. No matter the density it will have infinite mass. Therefore it will have infinite gravity, which is absolutely impossible.
We've just shown using two different methods this is not the case here and here.

You seem to know something we don't. We'd love if you shared it with us. I think the part you are missing is that gravity diminishes with distance and the horizontal forces cancel out. In this case, this makes the sum finite.
Quantum Ab Hoc

Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2016, 11:52:50 AM »
John Davis is right, it would only be infinite gravity if the mass was at a single point.
Think about it this way, gravity follows a inverse square law, and the infinite sum of the inverse square of every integer is a finite amount, pi^2/6

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2016, 12:09:49 PM »
I vote that John Davis change his flat earth gravity hypothesis to one where there is an infinite flat plane. :)

It is way more thought provoking for me as a non-flattie. So tired of discussions of why universal acceleration does not account actual findings.

Come on John, is there any reason why Infinite plane is not superior to universal acceleration?

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John Davis

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2016, 01:33:48 PM »
I don't believe in UA and I have no idea why folks think I do. I originally did the math linked (the alternate method to Kami) years and years ago. Since then I have made a non-Euclidean approach which also shares this same math for its justification. I can't think of a time when I believed in UA.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 01:36:45 PM by John Davis »
Quantum Ab Hoc

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John Davis

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2016, 02:34:03 PM »
It should be noted the infinite plane is a mainstay in Flat Earth theory. Johnson believed in it, Shenton did, and the idea even goes back as far as Rowbotham. Lately, there's me and Matt Boylan (aside: why do flat earthers insist on making up silly names for themselves?)
Quantum Ab Hoc

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rabinoz

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2016, 04:48:52 PM »
It is funny when round earth proponents argue with a round earth proponent that a flat earth concept can work.

So far this is the most reasonable explanation for gravity in the big bundle of ideas for a flat earth gravity. I don't know why there is not more adoption of it.
It explains gravitational fluctuations, gravity using existing science and can explain why it gets hotter the deeper you go.
It however does not explain orbits, any extra terrestrial bodies or sunsets.

If you are referring to me with "a round earth proponent that a flat earth concept can work", all I was claiming was that the maths were, as far as I can see correct. If I think that a "Flat Earther's" maths,  or even some logic,  is correct I will say so.

This is a Forum not a "Debating Club". Mind you I am quite sure in my own mind that we live on a Globe in an almost precisely Euclidean space - and I meant space not space-time, that according to GR is curved sufficiently to cause what we call "gravitation" and the measured rate variation clocks.
 
I do not agree with the proposition of an infinite flat plane. For a start it does not explain the variation of gravity with latitude.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2016, 10:34:47 PM »
It is funny when round earth proponents argue with a round earth proponent that a flat earth concept can work.

So far this is the most reasonable explanation for gravity in the big bundle of ideas for a flat earth gravity. I don't know why there is not more adoption of it.
It explains gravitational fluctuations, gravity using existing science and can explain why it gets hotter the deeper you go.
It however does not explain orbits, any extra terrestrial bodies or sunsets.

If you are referring to me with "a round earth proponent that a flat earth concept can work", all I was claiming was that the maths were, as far as I can see correct. If I think that a "Flat Earther's" maths,  or even some logic,  is correct I will say so.

This is a Forum not a "Debating Club". Mind you I am quite sure in my own mind that we live on a Globe in an almost precisely Euclidean space - and I meant space not space-time, that according to GR is curved sufficiently to cause what we call "gravitation" and the measured rate variation clocks.
 
I do not agree with the proposition of an infinite flat plane. For a start it does not explain the variation of gravity with latitude.

Don't take my statement too seriously. I literally thought it a bit funny when round earth proponents disagreed on something where some agreed with a flattie.
I also think the concept of gravity on a infinite flat plane works as a thought experiment. I just don't think a infinite flat plane exists. Earth is round.

Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2016, 07:26:59 AM »
IF THE EARTH IS INFINITELY FLAT THEN THAT MEANS THERE IS INFINITE GRAVITY WHICH = BLACK HOLE SO HTERE

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John Davis

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2016, 07:42:06 AM »
IF THE EARTH IS INFINITELY FLAT THEN THAT MEANS THERE IS INFINITE GRAVITY WHICH = BLACK HOLE SO HTERE
The math we both provided shows this isn't the case. Are you even paying attention?
Quantum Ab Hoc

Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2016, 01:30:43 PM »
This just came into mind:

If the plane is infinite, there's infinite mass. Infinite mass is infinite energy. How can we even have a night then, if the infinite space is filled with infinite energy?

It's just a thought that crossed my mind, I expect a quick refutal.

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Kami

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2016, 02:51:37 PM »
It is entirely possible that infinite space is filled with infinite energy, it is simply important that the amount of energy in a finite section of space is finite. And that is given.
In RE-theory it is possible that the universe includes infinite energy.

Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2016, 03:05:37 PM »
math... math... math...

are you gonna do some actual experiment or are you gonna go the shill way?

"so much the worse for experiments, the theory is right." (Albert FrankEinstein)






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Kami

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2016, 03:11:58 PM »
JohnRozz, please keep out of threads you do not understand.
Math can be a great tool to understand and predict things. You know, your computer is working with it, for example.
Nice quotes. Any reason I should value them more than my own education/trusting my own senses and reason?

EDIT: In case you did not understand (which I believe): These calculations show that an infinite plane could be possible (well, at least the gravity-issue is not a problem). This is in favor of flat earth. You do not need to attack it.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 03:13:58 PM by Kami »

Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2016, 03:25:12 PM »
I just wanted to state the obvious, but it seems you (pretend) not to understand...

I could not give a fuck about math, neither if it "PROVES" or if it "DISPROVES" flat/round earth.

math is NOT a proof.

the whole round earth bullshit has NO PROOF. it's all a bunch of theories and math. and "given fact".

round, flat, a cube, or a peer like this clown say



stop the math crap and bogus theory like magic gravity and atmosphere and give us some REAL evidence (no CGI or  nasa Bolliwood crap please).

« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 03:29:30 PM by JohnRozz »

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John Davis

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #54 on: June 21, 2016, 03:27:08 PM »
You are absolutely right that math has no tie to reality, but it is a useful tool to inspect reality if reality acts causally.

The truth IS obvious, to our senses, to our knowledge and to the plane out facts.
Quantum Ab Hoc

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Kami

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #55 on: June 21, 2016, 03:29:37 PM »
So JohnRozz, what would count as proof, since neither pictures/videos/maps/calculations/predictions count?

Sometimes I feel like John Davis is the only flat earther who tries to develop a real theory while the rest just ... well, look at your post, you see what I mean.

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John Davis

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2016, 03:35:55 PM »
They weigh too heavily on the old works and don't look enough with open eyes as Parallax did. Too confident in their knowledge, they have yet to see where it fails.

They will realize this with time, I never expected people to catch on to the truth so quickly.

I've been doing this a while and have 'reached beyond the veil' enough times to be where I am today. A few in the new will be the same, and the theory will grow in strength until it cannot be ignored.
Quantum Ab Hoc

Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2016, 03:45:36 PM »
Mathematical physics is NOT science.

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John Davis

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2016, 04:24:09 PM »
Mathematical physics is NOT science.
I too yearn for a return to natural philosophy and the recognition that mathematics and science are only strewn together loosely. Nominalism is valid - the tie of mathematics to reality is tenuous and at best conservative.

And yet, there is a glimmer of god there - and there are mathematics in the bible. This shouldn't and can't be ignored by the rational and faithful mind.

I was one of the first to throw the Tesla quote concerning mathematics into the fray. And I agree with it - we have lost common sense and replaced it far too often with far gone conclusions brought on by deep mathematical reasoning based on principle upon principle that each weighs heavily on assumption.

I think we agree more than we might both wish to admit.
Quantum Ab Hoc

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John Davis

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Re: Gravity on an infinite plane
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2016, 04:25:36 PM »
We stand on giants, but unfortunately, we can never meet them at eye level - as the horizon, God does...
Quantum Ab Hoc