ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?

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ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« on: May 24, 2016, 07:46:22 PM »
I am very new to the flat earth theory debate and discussion and am intrigued by some of the points being brought up. Although I recognize the bias against photographic evidence, the international space station's live stream ( http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream ) has to be better than a photo, right? I am genuinely curious as to how this altering could be done. I am currently on the globe earth side of the argument, but i understand the merits of the flat earth theory. If the station is not currently broadcasting the footage of earth, there are vods of previous streams. again i realize how these seem less valid.

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Blue_Moon

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2016, 07:56:49 PM »
I am very new to the flat earth theory debate and discussion and am intrigued by some of the points being brought up. Although I recognize the bias against photographic evidence, the international space station's live stream ( http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream ) has to be better than a photo, right? I am genuinely curious as to how this altering could be done. I am currently on the globe earth side of the argument, but i understand the merits of the flat earth theory. If the station is not currently broadcasting the footage of earth, there are vods of previous streams. again i realize how these seem less valid.

This one is better.  It shows a world map of where the ISS is and provides an overlay of country borders. 
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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2016, 08:01:21 PM »
@Blue_Moon Thanks man.

Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2016, 08:59:35 PM »
It's pretty easy to put a CGI earth and some spaceship together in the same video
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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 09:15:30 PM »
It's pretty easy to put a CGI earth and some spaceship together in the same video

But these videos are direct live streams from the space station, so how could you alter live footage with that level of CGI. I am of course assuming that the footage is real. Assuming it is doctored in some way, I was asking how they could pull this specific trick off, because it seems very unlikely at least to me. If it is as easy as you say, i'd like to see an altered live stream to this degree. Is there any link you could show me or any other proof. Some of the photos found of earth are altered, but from what I've seen of the DSCOVR crafts pictures and the live stream footage, it differs greatly than the obviously altered pictures often brought up as examples in this context. The cloud formations do not remain static and it just does not present most symptoms of the doctored photos. Please let me know if I am mistaken.

Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 09:25:12 PM »
OK you create a huge 3d sphere and texture it with an image of the countries
Then rotate it slowly, add clouds using a random generation technique called 'perlin noise'
Perlin Noise was used to generate any kind of cloud or dirt texture in Tron (the eighties movie)
The same algorithm was used for every 3dgraphics application henceforth,

It was invented by Ken perlin he has his own webpage at the university he works at.

Then you just composite in a spaceship part in front of the earth and voilà

Algorithms can be used to make convincing cloud movements also

Check out this
software

http://planetside.co.uk/galleries/terragen-gallery
In the image gallery it has terrain,sky and clouds all randomly generated and looking photo realistic


« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 09:32:33 PM by Ex-Globe »
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Blue_Moon

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 09:45:29 PM »
OK you create a huge 3d sphere and texture it with an image of the countries
Then rotate it slowly, add clouds using a random generation technique called 'perlin noise'
Perlin Noise was used to generate any kind of cloud or dirt texture in Tron (the eighties movie)
The same algorithm was used for every 3dgraphics application henceforth,

It was invented by Ken perlin he has his own webpage at the university he works at.

Then you just composite in a spaceship part in front of the earth and voilà

Algorithms can be used to make convincing cloud movements also

But it can't be randomized, because it has to exactly match the current weather patterns here on earth. 
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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2016, 07:59:28 AM »
That's not difficult

A computer can just get the weather information from the weather.......towers ;)

Then just use randomness to create the individual cloud details,while following the overall pattern of real weather
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 08:01:31 AM by Ex-Globe »
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Master_Evar

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2016, 09:09:28 AM »
That's not difficult

A computer can just get the weather information from the weather.......towers ;)

Then just use randomness to create the individual cloud details,while following the overall pattern of real weather

You know that not all weather towers have the necessary equipment to measure clouds, right? And that would be huge amounts of data to process, apply to an algorithm and render into clouds continuously? And what about over oceans?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2016, 09:14:26 AM »
I'm not saying they map the clouds with as much detail as you are thinking.

They can just use an overview and use randomness to fill in the details,no one can tell the difference between two clouds when looked at from two different angles.

(From the ground and the CGI from space)

So there is no need to copy individual clouds,just large scale patterns.

There could be any number of boats or buoys out there on the ocean with monitoring equipment.
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markjo

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2016, 09:52:31 AM »
Don't forget that you also need to coordinate with the Gulfstream pilots so that they can shine their spotlights where and when the ground spotters are expecting to see the ISS.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2016, 10:17:48 AM »
You have to credit those engineers who invented the bolt-on parts to make the jet look like a space station
:salute:
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markjo

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2016, 10:21:50 AM »
And managed to keep them up and running, non-stop and on time for over 10 years and counting.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Master_Evar

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2016, 11:13:00 AM »
I'm not saying they map the clouds with as much detail as you are thinking.

They can just use an overview and use randomness to fill in the details,no one can tell the difference between two clouds when looked at from two different angles.

(From the ground and the CGI from space)

So there is no need to copy individual clouds,just large scale patterns.
I didn't say they were going to copy clouds. It doesn't matter if you use a randomizer or not, it's still a lot of detail to render. And because the clouds keeps changing, they have to continuously render new clouds. And the randomizer still needs to be told the average density of the clouds, and the outlining of them. If the clouds are partially see-through from the ground, they should be so too from space. And you didn't adress the issue that not all weather stations have radar. And please, PLEASE show me where there is a RADAR on a buoy on the sea?


There could be any number of boats or buoys out there on the ocean with monitoring equipment.
[/quote]
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2016, 11:46:33 AM »
Continuously rendering new clouds....that's something only a computer could do,therefore it's not possible!!

Oh look here's a map of hundreds of buoys being used to monitor the weather all over the
world

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/

If you compare the cost of a weather satellite to a weather buoy you can see how satellites must be fictional.


If satellites are capable of looking down and getting all the information, why is it so difficult to believe that we are not capable of looking up and getting the same info?


« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 11:59:49 AM by Ex-Globe »
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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2016, 12:05:18 PM »
I actually think this might be possible.
We have constant satellite imagery of earth and its weather patterns anyway (except at night). Where we don't have imagery they have weather models that know where the clouds could be. I have not seen live HD ISS video footage of earth (not saying there is not), meaning your only rendering at 360p. Your render engine can be an hour or so off and most viewers will never know, it just needs to approximate. The ISS travels too far to pick up much surface detail anyway. The entire earth can be pre-rendered in parallel hours before, with the live feed just updating the weather render.

I can envision this being done.

Don't know why though, it will just be easier to put a camera on the ISS and send a live feed on the internet.
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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Master_Evar

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2016, 12:11:11 PM »
Continuously rendering new clouds....that's something only a computer could do,therefore it's not possible!!
Who said that it is not possible? My point is, do you think that even a computer could keep up the pace?

Oh look here's a map of hundreds of buoys being used to monitor the weather all over the
world

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/
And please, PLEASE show me where there is a RADAR on a buoy on the sea?
I see reading comprehension is not your best faculty.

If you compare the cost of a weather satellite to a weather buoy you can see how satellites must be fictional.
Weather satellites are used to do what you cannot do without crazy computing power and radar coverage on the ground; accurately track and predict the movement of clouds, as well as measuring temperature and some other stuff. And a weather satellite can cover a much larger area than a weather buoy, and they can actually communicate directly with the ground.

If satellites are capable of looking down and getting all the information, why is it so difficult to believe that we are not capable of looking up and getting the same info?
Yes, it is quite hard to believe that we can get a full and accurate visual of global cloud systems from the ground with todays technology.


Then, what MaNaeSWolf said. This would be pointless. Much cheaper to just put a camera on the ISS.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2016, 12:14:15 PM »
If satellites don't exist, how come we can see them ?

Anybody on Earth can spot the ISS. There are plenty of online tools to help you, for example this website : http://www.heavens-above.com/

It won't only tell you a date but the exact time and duration of appearance down to the minute !

It also shows you the exact trajectory of the ISS in the sky. Please input your city and click on a link, you will see a sky map plotting the course of the ISS so you know between which stars it will appear for you !

I, for one, have acknowledged many times the accuracy of these informations.

With some preparation you can even look at it with a telescope and see the shape of the satellite itself ! Many people - not space agencies but amateur photographers - have done so, see the result here https://www.google.fr/#q=astrophotography+iss

Speculating on physics problems when you don't understand the maths behind is one thing, but refuting what you see is something else...

Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2016, 12:46:51 PM »
Weather satellites don't predict anything, it's computers on the earth that predict things.

Why is it impossible for a buoy to have radar but it's possible for a satellite?
Both run on solar power and are unmanned.

In fact it's not even necessary to have data from the ocean where there are no people to see the clouds with their own eyes.
TV weather forecasters use ground based radar,

https://www.wunderground.com/weather-radar/united-states-regional/ky/bowling-green
Look at this radar map,it would be unbelievably simple to feed that information into a cloud generation program.
Even if the clouds were not rendered very accurately ,someone pointing out the differences would be told they are seeing things and they are crazy etc.


Spot the difference:
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/kentucky/satellite

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/kentucky/weather-radar

« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 01:04:48 PM by Ex-Globe »
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Jadyyn

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2016, 04:21:57 PM »
I particularly love it when FEers argue about clouds above a map/globe and say it is CGI.

FEers don't even have a map! They don't even know where they are on Earth!

So when REers present maps (globe + various projections) that airlines, planes and other vehicles use all the time, I find it funny that FEers argue they are CGI.

Hell FEers, why don't you CGI a FE map! Find yourself! It must be difficult to be lost all the time.
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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2016, 05:04:09 PM »
And managed to keep them up and running, non-stop and on time for over 10 years and counting.

I think they have more than one, a good percentage of the chemtrail planes double up as the ISS, the trick is getting the right one to decloak at the right time.
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Kami

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2016, 10:04:53 PM »
Our governments sure do seem to posess some highly advanced technology. Planes that can spray chemtrails, travel at incredible speeds and stay up for countless hours all while projecting the size of the iss, menwhile a whole livestream of the earth is simulated in real-time. What a time to be alive.

Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2016, 10:16:31 PM »
Our governments sure do seem to posess some highly advanced technology. Planes that can spray chemtrails, travel at incredible speeds and stay up for countless hours all while projecting the size of the iss, menwhile a whole livestream of the earth is simulated in real-time. What a time to be alive.

You think that's the most amazing part of the conspiracy?, the fact that all the governments on the entire earth get along with each other on these multitude of projects just leaves me giddy.
Turkish joke. A prisoner goes to the jail's library to borrow a book. The librarian says: "We don't have this book, but we have its author"

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rabinoz

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2016, 11:28:24 PM »
Weather satellites don't predict anything, it's computers on the earth that predict things.

Why is it impossible for a buoy to have radar but it's possible for a satellite?
Both run on solar power and are unmanned.

In fact it's not even necessary to have data from the ocean where there are no people to see the clouds with their own eyes.
TV weather forecasters use ground based radar,

https://www.wunderground.com/weather-radar/united-states-regional/ky/bowling-green
Look at this radar map,it would be unbelievably simple to feed that information into a cloud generation program.
Even if the clouds were not rendered very accurately ,someone pointing out the differences would be told they are seeing things and they are crazy etc.


Spot the difference:
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/kentucky/satellite

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/kentucky/weather-radar
Weather satellites generally gather images from cameras at various wavelengths, infra-red and visible, not radar images. Hence they can show clouds, and the infra-red images can see cloud at night. 

"Spot the difference:" Easy,  the weather satellites show clouds, the weather radar shows rain - massive difference. We very often have cloudy days, shown on satellite photos, with nothing on weather radar, like right where I am now. So you cannot work out where the clouds are from a radar image. Both are overlayed on the same map, making them look similar.

I have been try to work out what you are:
  • a specialist, who knows everything about nothing, or
  • a generalist, who knows nothing about everything!
Clearly you're a magnificent example of a generalist, as you sure know NOTHING about everything, though I doubt the everything bit!
Just admit it, you know nothing about radio propagation, nothing about weather satellites. Is there anything you do know?
No wonder you are "ex-globe", you were too lazy to try to understand it.

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Master_Evar

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2016, 12:56:13 AM »
Weather satellites don't predict anything, it's computers on the earth that predict things.
Weather satellites are used to predict cloud movement. Computers are mainly used to predict wind patterns. You can use wind patterns to help predict cloud movement. But weather satellites are mostly used for temperature scans, and other type of optical scans.

Why is it impossible for a buoy to have radar but it's possible for a satellite?
Well, first off buoys are waay to unstable. Secondly, I simply asked you to show a buoy which have a radar. I have never seen one, and I don't think you have either. All buoys have radar reflectors, but those require an external radar that's trying to communicate with it to work. And they definitely don't have the capability to track and measure clouds.

Both run on solar power and are unmanned.
One is, however, waay more stable and bigger.

In fact it's not even necessary to have data from the ocean where there are no people to see the clouds with their own eyes.
Yes, because no one ever travels on the sea, right?  ::)

TV weather forecasters use ground based radar,

https://www.wunderground.com/weather-radar/united-states-regional/ky/bowling-green
Look at this radar map,it would be unbelievably simple to feed that information into a cloud generation program.
Even if the clouds were not rendered very accurately ,someone pointing out the differences would be told they are seeing things and they are crazy etc.
The radar only tracks storms, i.e. falling masses of water. You have to add the satellite part to get cloud patterns.

Spot the difference:
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/kentucky/satellite

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/kentucky/weather-radar
Yes, one only shows falling masses of water, the other only shows clouds. Guess which one does what?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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Papa Legba

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2016, 01:31:35 AM »
Meh.

Doppler radar can pick up clouds no problem, so what's your point?

Then you got OTH & ROTHR...

Plus, the Meteorological Office in the UK is part of the Ministry Of Defence; may wanna ask yourself why that's the case?
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rabinoz

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2016, 03:18:19 AM »
.

Doppler radar can pick up clouds no problem, so what's your point?

Yes, if the clouds contain water droplets, ice or snow.

And now you're proposing Over the Horizon Doppler Radar that can detect ice particles.
Quote
What can JORN do?
• JORN is expected to detect air objects equivalent in size to a BAe Hawk-127 aircraft or larger and
maritime objects equivalent in size and construction to an Armidale-class patrol boat or larger.

Maybe you big raindrop where you are!

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Papa Legba

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2016, 04:10:24 AM »
Yes, if the clouds contain water droplets, ice or snow.

Did you really just write that, Geoff?

LMFAO!!!

• JORN is expected to detect air objects equivalent in size to a BAe Hawk-127 aircraft or larger

I don't know why you're comparing an air/sea-defence radar to a weather radar, but anyhoo, your average cloud is many thousands of times larger than a BAe Hawk...

So meh.

You are such a failure at your job, Geoff...

But then again, you think a VTOL shpayze-rokkit is feasible whilst a radar that detects clouds is not.

So you clearly live in backwards-land.
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rabinoz

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2016, 04:31:44 AM »
Can someone help Papa? He keeps asking for Geoff! Anyone know what he's on about.
I don't think there's been any Geoff here since I've been around!

I even tried a member search and all I came up with was
        a Geoff,  last active on March 11, 2009, 12:55:56 PM and
an ausGeoff, last active on June 14, 2015, 02:38:38 AM.

I think Papa Legba's having repressed memory syndrome problems. Is there a psychiatrist in the house.
I'm no expert but ECT might remove all trace of these unpleasant memories.
And all other memories, too bad,  but there's always these little side effects of any medical treatment.
Poor fellow, you have to feel sorry for someone like that!

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Papa Legba

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Re: ISS Live Stream can't be faked, can it?
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2016, 04:42:03 AM »
Nice try with the humourless gaslighting, Geoff, but there's no escaping the fact that you wrote this:

Yes, if the clouds contain water droplets, ice or snow.

What a jackass!
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