Opinions on the Merger

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sandokhan

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2016, 09:31:40 AM »
Both websites feature a faq/wikipedia section which is wholly and totally based on the UA concept.

Thus, the best proofs for the existence of FET, based on the concepts of aether/ether, are not being taken into consideration at all.

The best FE model, stationary flat plane with an aether dome, is not featured at all.


Issues like who is paying for the web hosting/domain, page design, team of moderators, pale in comparison to the main, outstanding problem: as it stands now, both websites are selling to the public the following FE version:

Earth is accelerating upwards

3000 mile distance to the Sun/Moon

32 mile diameter of the Sun/Moon

No ether/aether

Total reliance on Earth is not a Globe (even though Rowbotham committed several important mistakes, especially when it comes to facts pertaining to solar astrophysics)

Everything is left to chance: no explanations for stellar/planetary gravity, gravitational anomalies, ether drift results, FE cosmology, and much more

No mention is made of the fact that the biographies of Kepler and Newton, Copernicus and Galilei, Hipparchus and Ptolemy were falsified/forged; thus, any RE can immediately invoke the axial precession data/facts (as recorded by the official chronology of history) and prove their point






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John Davis

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2016, 09:39:20 AM »
Both websites feature a faq/wikipedia section which is wholly and totally based on the UA concept.
This will change shortly - we are removing UA from the FAQ  and removing the wiki.

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Thus, the best proofs for the existence of FET, based on the concepts of aether/ether, are not being taken into consideration at all.

The best FE model, stationary flat plane with an aether dome, is not featured at all.
This is also changing - we will have a lot of content regarding various dome models.

Quote
Issues like who is paying for the web hosting/domain, page design, team of moderators, pale in comparison to the main, outstanding problem: as it stands now, both websites are selling to the public the following FE version:

Earth is accelerating upwards

3000 mile distance to the Sun/Moon

32 mile diameter of the Sun/Moon

No ether/aether

Total reliance on Earth is not a Globe (even though Rowbotham committed several important mistakes, especially when it comes to facts pertaining to solar astrophysics)

Everything is left to chance: no explanations for stellar/planetary gravity, gravitational anomalies, ether drift results, FE cosmology, and much more

No mention is made of the fact that the biographies of Kepler and Newton, Copernicus and Galilei, Hipparchus and Ptolemy were falsified/forged; thus, any RE can immediately invoke the axial precession data/facts (as recorded by the official chronology of history) and prove their point
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Jack

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2016, 10:00:21 AM »
Actually, you would have everything to gain and nothing to lose. You would get our superior services, our superior technical expertise and active administration, our superior design and branding, and you would no longer have to worry about falling behind in SEO and social media reach. All this without putting in any effort on your part.
So basically we just have to leave everything to you and pray that you won't screw us over. This reunification deal is horribly lopsided, I must say. I think we'll be fine on our own.

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Blanko

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2016, 12:50:50 PM »
Actually, you would have everything to gain and nothing to lose. You would get our superior services, our superior technical expertise and active administration, our superior design and branding, and you would no longer have to worry about falling behind in SEO and social media reach. All this without putting in any effort on your part.
So basically we just have to leave everything to you and pray that you won't screw us over. This reunification deal is horribly lopsided, I must say. I think we'll be fine on our own.

I'm not suggesting you wouldn't have a say in how the site is run. Personally, I would be fine with every admin on this site keeping their admin status.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Re: Is it normal for Moderators to be so immature?
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2016, 01:36:23 PM »
This thread is so chock-full of voodoo I don't know where to begin.

But I do know that this is lulzy:

Now, if your side wants to continue shielding a predator, that's your pregorative - but, for the sake of honest discourse, it's better for all of you to know what you're dealing with.

I have seen the movie 'Predator' & am now very worried indeed that a giant, crab-faced alien big-game hunter is moderating us all...

Oh, jroa - you MONSTER!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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John Davis

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2016, 01:39:24 PM »
We've all made mistakes in the past. Throwing someone to the curb is not a solution to this, if it indeed even happened. I've seen no evidence of this here, and I doubt I ever will.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2016, 01:51:51 PM »
Actually, you would have everything to gain and nothing to lose. You would get our superior services, our superior technical expertise and active administration, our superior design and branding, and you would no longer have to worry about falling behind in SEO and social media reach. All this without putting in any effort on your part.

But, wait, if you act now, your site will be absorbed and consumed.

That does not sound like a merger.


All we want out of this is a unified userbase,

And in exchange you are offering this site assisted suicide.


If this is the extent of the deal, they are offering nothing.


RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2016, 01:55:36 PM »
We've all made mistakes in the past. Throwing someone to the curb is not a solution to this, if it indeed even happened. I've seen no evidence of this here, and I doubt I ever will.

Of course you haven't.

Cos this thread is just mad voodoo bullshit.

Plus, if we're gonna be FE-specific, this:

Both websites feature a faq/wikipedia section which is wholly and totally based on the UA concept.

Thus, the best proofs for the existence of FET, based on the concepts of aether/ether, are not being taken into consideration at all.

The best FE model, stationary flat plane with an aether dome, is not featured at all.


Issues like who is paying for the web hosting/domain, page design, team of moderators, pale in comparison to the main, outstanding problem: as it stands now, both websites are selling to the public the following FE version:

Earth is accelerating upwards

3000 mile distance to the Sun/Moon

32 mile diameter of the Sun/Moon

No ether/aether

Total reliance on Earth is not a Globe (even though Rowbotham committed several important mistakes, especially when it comes to facts pertaining to solar astrophysics)

Everything is left to chance: no explanations for stellar/planetary gravity, gravitational anomalies, ether drift results, FE cosmology, and much more

No mention is made of the fact that the biographies of Kepler and Newton, Copernicus and Galilei, Hipparchus and Ptolemy were falsified/forged; thus, any RE can immediately invoke the axial precession data/facts (as recorded by the official chronology of history) and prove their point

You might want to ask sceptimatic's opinion too; he's the only other FE-er here worth shit.

I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2016, 02:02:15 PM »
Actually, you would have everything to gain and nothing to lose. You would get our superior services, our superior technical expertise and active administration, our superior design and branding, and you would no longer have to worry about falling behind in SEO and social media reach. All this without putting in any effort on your part.
So basically we just have to leave everything to you and pray that you won't screw us over. This reunification deal is horribly lopsided, I must say. I think we'll be fine on our own.

How could we "screw you over"?  What does that even mean in this context?  Accidentally delete six weeks' worth of posts while trying to move the site to a new server?  Routinely ignore requests to fix trivial technical errors simply because the person proposing them is someone the site owner dislikes?  Have every single admin frequently be inactive for years at a time?  Have the site run out of bandwidth and be inaccessible at the end of almost every month?  Even if we assume that the merger hits a few unforeseen technical snags, there is no way that the new site could possibly end up being as badly-run as this one has been in the past.  Sure, it's running well now, but for how long?  It wasn't all that long ago that every page took about thirty seconds to load (if you don't remember this, it's probably because you were on one of your lengthy breaks).  The only thing that's necessary to turn a well-run site into a shitty one is neglect, and no amount of professional qualifications in the world will change that.

We've all made mistakes in the past. Throwing someone to the curb is not a solution to this, if it indeed even happened. I've seen no evidence of this here, and I doubt I ever will.

Look, obviously it's your site and your decision, but I have to say that I think you're going about this all wrong.  The retention of mod powers shouldn't be a reward, nor the removal of them a punishment.  Leave the past where it is and judge the situation based on the present.  Is jroa, at this time, doing good work as a mod and being beneficial to the website?  If so, then leave him as a mod.  Or is he, at this time, doing bad work as a mod and being detrimental to the website?  If so, then demod him.  That's all you really need to consider here.  You keep talking about this as if it's a matter of loyalty, or owing jroa one, and I just don't see how it's relevant.

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John Davis

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2016, 02:18:05 PM »
Loyalty is always relevant. I hold myself to a moral standard. Is he doing well as a mod now? Yes. Has he done anything to warrant his mod to be removed? No.

As far as neglect, I suppose time will tell on that one. Or we will merge and it won't.


Actually, you would have everything to gain and nothing to lose. You would get our superior services, our superior technical expertise and active administration, our superior design and branding, and you would no longer have to worry about falling behind in SEO and social media reach. All this without putting in any effort on your part.

But, wait, if you act now, your site will be absorbed and consumed.

That does not sound like a merger.


All we want out of this is a unified userbase,

And in exchange you are offering this site assisted suicide.


If this is the extent of the deal, they are offering nothing.



I have to admit, I laughed. And a good point - it doesn't sound like a merger.
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Parsifal

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2016, 02:51:55 PM »
Actually, you would have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

While I agree that both sides would have something to gain from reunification, I don't think it's fair to say that nobody would lose anything. Even if true, this is not a good way to go about convincing someone -- it's a slightly less direct way of saying "your concerns don't matter", which is only likely to enhance any distrust that may exist.

Personally, I don't think reunification can work without at least some concessions from both sides. I don't think we're likely to reach a mutually acceptable agreement, so as much as I personally would like to see reunification take place, I doubt it will.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Blanko

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2016, 02:53:01 PM »
Actually, you would have everything to gain and nothing to lose. You would get our superior services, our superior technical expertise and active administration, our superior design and branding, and you would no longer have to worry about falling behind in SEO and social media reach. All this without putting in any effort on your part.

But, wait, if you act now, your site will be absorbed and consumed.

That does not sound like a merger.


All we want out of this is a unified userbase,

And in exchange you are offering this site assisted suicide.


If this is the extent of the deal, they are offering nothing.

I guess I don't understand what you want out of the merger. Do you want a site that loads slow, suffers from frequent downtime and is deliberately broken in functionality? Because we're offering to eliminate all that.

To further clarify, I'm viewing the prospects of a merger in terms of what each of our strengths are and what is the best way to combine them. In my view, our side has the better forums, wiki and branding. Your side has the better social media reach and domain value. So the most pragmatic solution would be that we keep our forums, wiki and branding, while your side retains the social media platforms and domain. It's my view that both sides would be much better off, so the idea that you would be "surrendering" anything doesn't really register with me. You'd simply be upgrading, and so would we.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 03:08:41 PM by Blanko »

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Papa Legba

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2016, 03:06:10 PM »
I guess I don't understand what you want out of the merger.

I don't want you.

Or your 29,000,000 sock-puppets either.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2016, 03:11:55 PM »
Actually, you would have everything to gain and nothing to lose. You would get our superior services, our superior technical expertise and active administration, our superior design and branding, and you would no longer have to worry about falling behind in SEO and social media reach. All this without putting in any effort on your part.

But, wait, if you act now, your site will be absorbed and consumed.

That does not sound like a merger.


All we want out of this is a unified userbase,

And in exchange you are offering this site assisted suicide.


If this is the extent of the deal, they are offering nothing.

I guess I don't understand what you want out of the merger. Do you want a site that loads slow, suffers from frequent downtime and is deliberately broken in functionality? Because we're offering to eliminate all that.


Don't assume I want a merger.


So, call now and have my credit card ready?
I honestly have no idea who you are and I don't care.

From a strictly business viewpoint,
you are offering flash-bang grenades and poison gas.

I see absolutely no benefit to this site being offered.

"turn over the keys to the kingdom" is not an offer.
RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2016, 03:26:22 PM »

To further clarify, I'm viewing the prospects of a merger in terms of what each of our strengths are and what is the best way to combine them. In my view, our side has the better forums, wiki and branding. Your side has the better social media reach and domain value. So the most pragmatic solution would be that we keep our forums, wiki and branding, while your side retains the social media platforms and domain. It's my view that both sides would be much better off, so the idea that you would be "surrendering" anything doesn't really register with me. You'd simply be upgrading, and so would we.



Just saw your edit.

Sounds like you want control of the "look and feel".
That is called the "brand"

You claim to have superior, basically, everything.

All you need to complete the takeover is our userbase.

Lets talk about leadership. Who will own the brand outright?

Ultimate decision maker?


This is not a simple handshake kind of thing.
RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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Blanko

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2016, 03:50:49 PM »
You claim to have superior, basically, everything.

Incorrect.

Quote
All you need to complete the takeover is our userbase.

I've just offered a solution in which your leadership would continue to have a say in how the site is run and hold control of social media. Would you care to explain to me how that constitutes a "takeover"?

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Lets talk about leadership. Who will own the brand outright?

The society.

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Ultimate decision maker?

I don't see why there has to be one. But, for example - Parsifal could be the ultimate decision maker for the forums, and John could be the ultimate decision maker for social media.

Quote
This is not a simple handshake kind of thing.

Of course, that's why we're talking about it.

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Pongo

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2016, 04:12:52 PM »

I guess I don't understand what you want out of the merger. Do you want a site that loads slow, suffers from frequent downtime and is deliberately broken in functionality? Because we're offering to eliminate all that.

To further clarify, I'm viewing the prospects of a merger in terms of what each of our strengths are and what is the best way to combine them. In my view, our side has the better forums, wiki and branding. Your side has the better social media reach and domain value. So the most pragmatic solution would be that we keep our forums, wiki and branding, while your side retains the social media platforms and domain. It's my view that both sides would be much better off, so the idea that you would be "surrendering" anything doesn't really register with me. You'd simply be upgrading, and so would we.

That was very well worded with reasonable tones and propositions. You could have rallied an entire barony to your cause with a speech like that.

It's silly to think nothing will be gained from a merger, just as it's silly to think nothing will be lost. However, is the loss acceptable to accrue the gains? I think it is.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2016, 04:23:13 PM »
You claim to have superior, basically, everything.

Incorrect.

Quote
All you need to complete the takeover is our userbase.

I've just offered a solution in which your leadership would continue to have a say in how the site is run and hold control of social media. Would you care to explain to me how that constitutes a "takeover"?

Quote
Lets talk about leadership. Who will own the brand outright?

The society.

Quote
Ultimate decision maker?

I don't see why there has to be one. But, for example - Parsifal could be the ultimate decision maker for the forums, and John could be the ultimate decision maker for social media.

Quote
This is not a simple handshake kind of thing.

Of course, that's why we're talking about it.


I obviously overstepped my authority.
When I see a negotiation my instinct is to jump in.

Oooops!   ;D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 04:24:47 PM by Bullwinkle »
RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2016, 04:31:43 PM »
Maybe you guys should've made this pitch before John got the forum working properly... because all this "loads slow, suffers from frequent downtime and is deliberately broken in functionality" just isn't true now.

What y'all want are all the hits this site gets.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Blanko

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2016, 04:39:31 PM »
Maybe you guys should've made this pitch before John got the forum working properly... because all this "loads slow, suffers from frequent downtime and is deliberately broken in functionality" just isn't true now.

Funny you should mention it, because there was a lengthy downtime just earlier today. And I've had several 20+ second page loads just trying to post in this thread.

And John was the one who introduced an arbitrary word filter, so in that regard the forum was actually working better before he stepped in.

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What y'all want are all the hits this site gets.

If that were true, wouldn't you also want the hits our site gets? Again, it's mutually beneficial.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2016, 04:49:51 PM »
The other site has 17 guests viewing the forum, this one has 81.  That is the value this site brings. You shouldn't deny it, if you're being honest.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Blanko

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2016, 04:58:03 PM »
How is that even a concern? It's not like you would be losing any of those hits in a merger.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2016, 05:31:04 PM »
This site has value, one of those values is the number of hits it gets. The other FES pretends this site has no value, so Daniel should hand it over. I never said a thing about this site losing hits in a merger, it is not a "concern".  You have rabinoz over there complaining about how dead it is. 

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Blanko

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2016, 06:06:49 PM »
If it's not a concern, I don't see how this is relevant. I've never claimed that this site has no value, and I'm sure most people on our site haven't either.

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Pongo

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2016, 06:28:50 PM »
The other site has 17 guests viewing the forum, this one has 81.  That is the value this site brings. You shouldn't deny it, if you're being honest.

If this is an issue for you, think of it as this site gaining many more flat-earthers without getting porportionally as many roundies.

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John Davis

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2016, 08:18:35 PM »
I've never claimed that this site has no value, and I'm sure most people on our site haven't either.
Wait, haven't what?

Yes, we both have value. Value derived directly off the Truth. Its not about our value or yours, its about whats best for the idea, and the Flat Earth Society. It might be that its better to have us separate. I think we both have a point of view that's worth while, and I'm not sure its the same one. Though they might live well together. At the very least, we need to be working together, not against each other. We don't need to repeat the mistakes of Ferrari and Shenton.

It seems we aren't as enthusiastic as I might have thought. Perhaps we put a pin in this, and see how things go. If we can't work together for a bit, we have no hope of working together for a long time. Let's work on some small efforts, then see if either of us want to move forward.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 08:22:36 PM by John Davis »
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2016, 01:42:54 AM »
The other site has 17 guests viewing the forum, this one has 81.  That is the value this site brings. You shouldn't deny it, if you're being honest.
The spambots hammering this website are not a benefit, they're a problem that, in John's credit, has been partially solved (it looks like most of them are unable to register at this point). They're also likely linked to the forum's performance issues. Again, I appreciate that the forum isn't as slow as it used to be, but it's hardly been fixed. If you want to see what a forum that isn't slow looks like, you know where to find us.

It seems we aren't as enthusiastic as I might have thought. Perhaps we put a pin in this, and see how things go. If we can't work together for a bit, we have no hope of working together for a long time. Let's work on some small efforts, then see if either of us want to move forward.
I think I'm leaning towards agreeing with you - but for all the "wrong" reasons. The reunification is completely achievable and workable - the only thing that's stopping us from working together is the continuous accusations levied against us.

"You're DDoSers... oh, no, you're not, sorry about that. Boom, let's put forward a word filter to remove all links to your site... oh, no, no, we're sorry about that too, that was misguided... actually nevermind, the word filter comes back. YOU'RE ALL TERRORISTS!!! Oh, no, you're not terrorists... hey, let's talk about the merger again!"

I would like to request that you pick a line of reasoning and stick with it. If you despise us and think that we're everything that's wrong with the world (attackers, terrorists, a menace, usurpers, whatever) - that's fine. We can all go our own way and pretend the other group doesn't exist. We don't need to get in each other's way, and we can all live happily ever after. If, on the other hand, you think that the Flat Earth cause is important enough to look past our occasional differences, then I implore you to cease these spontaneous outbursts.

It's not to say that apologising after you've done something like that is the wrong move, but the apology only means something if you avoid doing the exact same thing 2 months later. With you, it's consistently... inconsistent, and from my perspective, your flip-flopping simply makes you look incredulous.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Jack

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2016, 02:32:47 AM »
How could we "screw you over"? What does that even mean in this context? 
My point is that we're uninsured against any scenario detrimental to us or our (or Daniel's) interests. For instance, there's no guarantee that your administration won't forcibly do to the unified FES something we reject completely, and since we no longer have the keys we won't be able to do anything about it.

Actually, you would have everything to gain and nothing to lose. You would get our superior services, our superior technical expertise and active administration, our superior design and branding, and you would no longer have to worry about falling behind in SEO and social media reach. All this without putting in any effort on your part.

But, wait, if you act now, your site will be absorbed and consumed.

That does not sound like a merger.


All we want out of this is a unified userbase,

And in exchange you are offering this site assisted suicide.


If this is the extent of the deal, they are offering nothing.
I agree. I think we should put this matter to rest and move on. If any of our users wants "superior" services, he or she can always go to the other site for them. Plus in the event that, for whatever reason, one of the sites is no longer accessible, rendered unusable or simply gone, at least those still interested in FES stuff will have something to fall back on.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 07:27:44 AM by Jack »

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Parsifal

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2016, 05:01:52 AM »
My point is that we're uninsured against any scenario detrimental to us or our (or Daniel's) interests. For instance, there's no guarantee that your administration won't forcibly do to the unified FES something we reject completely, and since we no longer have the keys we won't be able to do anything about it.

Under the terms we had previously negotiated with Daniel, he would retain control over the theflatearthsociety.org domain name. That was one point we were happy to concede in exchange for control over the forum, with the understanding that in the event of a major falling out, he would be able to switch over the DNS to something under his control. Put another way, we would have the keys to the car, but you would be able to lock the garage.

While those terms are no longer considered suitable from our side, that is one particular aspect I see no reason to change if we were to renegotiate.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Opinions on the Merger
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2016, 07:46:21 AM »
The other site has 17 guests viewing the forum, this one has 81.  That is the value this site brings. You shouldn't deny it, if you're being honest.

If this is an issue for you, think of it as this site gaining many more flat-earthers without getting porportionally as many roundies.

You're still not getting it. Some of the defectors go on about how terrible this forum is, as if it has no value and nothing to offer. They just want a unified userbase! I'm calling bullshit on that. This site is active, this site gets tons of noobs, this site gets tons of views (even if a good deal of them are spambots). This is the site people come to after one of John Davis, or Daniel's interviews. They built this up, and Daniel has foot the bill. Value.

This is not a hateful message!

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.