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Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages

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Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« on: May 13, 2016, 02:15:55 PM »
The average person treats science no differently than those in the dark ages treated dogma.

They get science 'fact' passed down to them by priests (the news) and monks (schools) and take it as fact without ever questioning one bit of it. When somebody questions this they turn on super defensive mode and abuse the person for being 'stupid' and 'ignorant' regardless of this is indeed the truth, much like blasphemy was treated.

Ok fine, this element might always be here, but is it any better with science than with the church? At least with the church we had the benefit of morality being baked into the dogma. With science we have a movement away from morality that started before wwII, had a short lived realization that it was awful and needed to be policed (Nuremburg) and then a return to immorality.

Science wants to raise the dead, clone people, and perform all sorts of immoral tests. The sad thing is that these routinely pass an "ethics" committee. Yeah - because zombies are ethical and can consent to experiment.
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FalseProphet

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2016, 02:42:13 PM »
You do not have to believe anything a scientist says when he can't back it up with evidence.

The problem with people like you is, you make no effort to understand any evidence. You cannot expect that fantasies you make up in your head is taken serious by anybody else.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2016, 02:58:23 PM »
Half of the stuff you talked about you made up, and half is just wrong. Then there's a little bit of truth: the average person treats science as dogma. But that's just how it is and it can't be easily changed, because the average person doesn't care about it and science doesn't force it to.. Now at least science doesn't try to murder anyone who doubts it (like the church did), it's based on logic (unlike the church), it doesn't try to impose ways on how to live on people (like the church), and in general, it's not a borderline dictatorship of merchants of faith.

Now crazy stuff about science wanting to "raise the dead" belongs in 19th century dystopian scenarios and Frankenstein monsters. You also act like science is a singular organization and classify everything under the same label, and think that science seeks to immoralize.Science has nothing to do with ethics, and it doesn't bother with them. It's not like the church is absolutely moral anyway. If anything, it's great that we moved away from fundamentalism and anyone can speak freely.

But why does everyone consider FEs nuts? Scientists do because they know why FEs are wrong, and the average person does because... Well, it's not entirely sound but here it is: the average person has no idea about any of this, right? Well, who is the average person going to trust, the random person who tells him the earth is flat, or the thousand if scientists who say the opposite?
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Ex-Globe

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2016, 03:06:22 PM »
Social Science is used to create new policies!

The food pyramid was introduced to the United States in 1992 and was accepted for 13 years. It turned out to be completely wrong even though it was based on science.

It had carbs at a very high proportion of what people should eat.

If someone had questioned the food pyramid during that time they would have been treated like they were weird.

The President has been promoting the 1 in 5 sexual assault myth but its false
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/no-1-in-5-women-have-not-been-raped-on-college-campuses/article/2551980
He wont do a public retraction though so most people think its true still.

So men in college are given instruction on how not to rape, even though sexual assault is more common in the town surrounding the University.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 03:12:06 PM by Ex-Globe »
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Pezevenk

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2016, 03:13:17 PM »
Quote from: Ex-Globe on May 13, 2016, 03:06:22 PM
The food pyramid was introduced to the United States in 1992 and was accepted for 13 years. It turned out to be completely wrong even though it was based on science.

It had carbs at a very high proportion of what people should eat.

If someone had questioned the food pyramid during that time they would have been treated like they were weird.

The President has been oromoting the 1 in 5 sexual assault myth but its false
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/no-1-in-5-women-have-not-been-raped-on-college-campuses/article/2551980
He wont do a public retraction though so most people think its true still

First of all, no, you wouldn't be considered to be weird if you questioned the food pyramid, it's not like it was fundamental and absolute. Besides, the science of nutrition isn't based on mathematically proven facts.

However, I want you to notice how it was proven wrong BY SCIENCE, and after "only" 13 years. If science was dogmatic, we would still accept it today. Science makes MANY mistakes (after all, if it didn't, it would have stayed the same since the very beginning), but you just can't claim to have found one without evidence.
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Ex-Globe

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2016, 04:17:40 PM »
 false statistics that people think are true thanks to social sciences
77c wage gap
1 in 5 sexual assault
Kids are being taught about microagressions  - this came from the social justice part of university which is a social science.
Anyone who doubts these things is considered ignorant for not agreeing with academics and scientists.
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uCantBeSerious

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2016, 04:21:47 PM »
Quote from: Ex-Globe on May 13, 2016, 04:17:40 PM
false statistics that people think are true thanks to social sciences
77c wage gap
1 in 5 sexual assault
Kids are being taught about microagressions  - this came from the social justice part of university which is a social science.
Anyone who doubts these things is considered ignorant for not agreeing with academics and scientists.

As someone who's actually a professional in the field, I can tell you this is completely false. 
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Username

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2016, 04:31:17 PM »
Yes, but science advances due to people with views that appear at first patently false. This is where the new language comes in for a revolution. The rest of the work is deductive and really only meant to find the holes in the theory - then revolution starts it all over again with a better set of axioms.

When people treat science as dogma it becomes clear they not only misunderstand it, but are actively hurting it. Science, like animals or evolution in theory are very similar. It is the mutations that end up changing the set of axioms and the angle at which we look at empirical evidence. The rest is curve fitting and puzzle solving. While important, they are doing neither. On the other hand, having an outside skeptical view will always serve them and us all well as we should always be looking to the next paradigm and not be comfortable with blind eyes.

We got specialization and puzzle solving down. Now lets look at the rock-and-roll part of science. The pot is boiling!
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sharpie325

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2016, 06:04:02 PM »
Even though I think this entire website is an excercise / experiment in debate skills, I have to chime in with john, at least to some degree. I had never heard of fe, or re... Or this website, or any of it til a week ago.
    I've read through posts for 7 days now.  I say, there is NO difference in framework, process, and practice  of what is called science here, and what is called religion there.  Neither knows what is 100%.  Both have paradoxs, both fashion models, both models fail over time. New models are made and sold to the masses. Over and over and over again.
   But one things for sure.   The best of us humans love the persuit of it, more than the prize.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 06:08:02 PM by sharpie325 »
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Jadyyn

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2016, 06:16:22 PM »
Quote from: John Davis on May 13, 2016, 02:15:55 PM
The average person treats science no differently than those in the dark ages treated dogma.

They get science 'fact' passed down to them by priests (the news) and monks (schools) and take it as fact without ever questioning one bit of it. When somebody questions this they turn on super defensive mode and abuse the person for being 'stupid' and 'ignorant' regardless of this is indeed the truth, much like blasphemy was treated.

Ok fine, this element might always be here, but is it any better with science than with the church? At least with the church we had the benefit of morality being baked into the dogma. With science we have a movement away from morality that started before wwII, had a short lived realization that it was awful and needed to be policed (Nuremburg) and then a return to immorality.

Science wants to raise the dead, clone people, and perform all sorts of immoral tests. The sad thing is that these routinely pass an "ethics" committee. Yeah - because zombies are ethical and can consent to experiment.
I'm not clear on this...

So we are not to listen to schools/scientists on science topics but the FE society debaters? That is your solution?

The FE society debaters can't even produce a map (2D on a piece of 2D paper) after THOUSANDS of years - longer than RET/heliocentricity has been around. FEers therefore don't even know where we are on Earth! This is what your are teaching YOUR children? That is OK? You are taking children back BEFORE the Dark Ages.

How does that put the S. Celestial Pole in the sky above a single point on Earth with everyone on Earth looking due south? This is the "science" you want to teach children? How not to use logic and common sense?

Looking for new paradigms is OK but you need logic, common sense and evidence, especially if you want to replace something that works. Any FEer using airlines or ships is a hypocrite because they use a globe as a map (that exists in many 2D projections) for example. They don't rely on a FE - a map that doesn't exist.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 06:18:14 PM by Jadyyn »
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Pezevenk

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2016, 01:43:14 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on May 13, 2016, 04:31:17 PM
Yes, but science advances due to people with views that appear at first patently false. This is where the new language comes in for a revolution. The rest of the work is deductive and really only meant to find the holes in the theory - then revolution starts it all over again with a better set of axioms.

When people treat science as dogma it becomes clear they not only misunderstand it, but are actively hurting it. Science, like animals or evolution in theory are very similar. It is the mutations that end up changing the set of axioms and the angle at which we look at empirical evidence. The rest is curve fitting and puzzle solving. While important, they are doing neither. On the other hand, having an outside skeptical view will always serve them and us all well as we should always be looking to the next paradigm and not be comfortable with blind eyes.

We got specialization and puzzle solving down. Now lets look at the rock-and-roll part of science. The pot is boiling!

So? Just because your views don't agree with mainstream science, it doesn't mean they're right, or the next revolution. You have to prove that they are. If I say that gravity is caused by invisible cats pulling everything down, just because it disagrees with mainstream science, it doesn't mean I'm not a nut. So far, no flat earther has done something to challenge the current model.
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racionador

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2016, 05:44:23 AM »
what flat earts do to prove they right?
i once propose to pay a kickstart project for a flat earth do a expedition to antarctica , the best the best answer I had here was a guy saying that once he was at argentina and would go to a travel by boat but see some men in black close and get scared.
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Empirical

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2016, 02:33:38 AM »
The modern understanding of science by the average person is bad, so many people don't understand how centrifugal force is proportional to the rpm, not the velocity relative to the center of the object. Quite a few people don't understand how the third law of motion works, so many people on this site think rockets don't work. Undertanding of maths is pretty bad as some people don't understand that if you called the center of a disk north, nothing could be south of every point.

If the bad science bothers you, maybe you should find a topic on the site and explain where they are going wrong, unfortunately the rockets cannot work in a vacuum thread has stopped now.
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hello_there

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2016, 03:15:36 AM »
Quote from: Empirical on May 15, 2016, 02:33:38 AM
The modern understanding of science by the average person is bad, so many people don't understand how centrifugal force is proportional to the rpm, not the velocity relative to the center of the object. Quite a few people don't understand how the third law of motion works, so many people on this site think rockets don't work.

It's proportional to neither linear nor angular velocity (you refer it as RMP). This is how the formula is:
F=(m*(v^2))/r=m*(ω^2)*r
F and ω are not proportional

except maybe for this case
F=m*v*ω
F is proportional to v and ω, but requires a super weird circumstances.

Sorry but I had to say it, just trying to be consistent.
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JohnRozz

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2016, 10:51:36 PM »
I'm going to give you the answer my dears.

-EARTH IS FLAT
-THERE'S AN ATMSPHERE SURROUNDING EARTH AND A "DOME" SURROUNDING THE ATMOSPHERE, IT IS THE VAN ALLEN BELT
-THE SUN AND THE MOON ARE VERY CLOSE AND ARE ROTATING OVER OUR HEADS ON THEIR OWN UNIQUE CIRCULAR PATHS

...but there's more...

think of earth like a coin...

there's the other side, the other "reality", the "parallel reality"...

ALL MAJOR "SCIENTISTS" WERE FREEMASONS.

-Darwin & co -> EVOLUTION IS FAKE!

human and animals do slightly change in DNA, but nothing major and it's a natural process...
while ILLUMINATI and FREEMASONS actually likes their own bloodlines, they only interbreed among them, that's why they are satanists, psychopatics, and totally against god, man, and the creation (earth sun moon stars)... THEY ALSO LIKE MANIPULATING DNA WITH SCIENCE, THEY'D LIKE TO BE GOD, THEY IN FACT ARE ASSHOLES.

the BIG BANG IS THE BIGGEST PILE OF SHIT EVER.

continents DO NO GO AROUND THE WORLD.

THE EARTH IT'S FLAT BUT THE EARTH UPPER FACE WASN' ALWAYS LIKE THAT....

THERE ONCE WERE MORE CONTINENTS, THEY'RE UNDERWATER.

GLOBAL WARMING IS A SCAM. TEMPERATURES FOLLOW A SINUSOIDAL IRREGULAR PATH.

IT WAS ALL RELATED TO THE SUN AND VARIABLE HEAT DURING THE HISTORY.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 10:53:25 PM by JohnRozz »
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Pezevenk

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2016, 01:03:38 AM »
Quote from: JohnRozz on May 15, 2016, 10:51:36 PM
I'm going to give you the answer my dears.

-EARTH IS FLAT
-THERE'S AN ATMSPHERE SURROUNDING EARTH AND A "DOME" SURROUNDING THE ATMOSPHERE, IT IS THE VAN ALLEN BELT
-THE SUN AND THE MOON ARE VERY CLOSE AND ARE ROTATING OVER OUR HEADS ON THEIR OWN UNIQUE CIRCULAR PATHS

...but there's more...

think of earth like a coin...

there's the other side, the other "reality", the "parallel reality"...

ALL MAJOR "SCIENTISTS" WERE FREEMASONS.

-Darwin & co -> EVOLUTION IS FAKE!

human and animals do slightly change in DNA, but nothing major and it's a natural process...
while ILLUMINATI and FREEMASONS actually likes their own bloodlines, they only interbreed among them, that's why they are satanists, psychopatics, and totally against god, man, and the creation (earth sun moon stars)... THEY ALSO LIKE MANIPULATING DNA WITH SCIENCE, THEY'D LIKE TO BE GOD, THEY IN FACT ARE ASSHOLES.

the BIG BANG IS THE BIGGEST PILE OF SHIT EVER.

continents DO NO GO AROUND THE WORLD.

THE EARTH IT'S FLAT BUT THE EARTH UPPER FACE WASN' ALWAYS LIKE THAT....

THERE ONCE WERE MORE CONTINENTS, THEY'RE UNDERWATER.

GLOBAL WARMING IS A SCAM. TEMPERATURES FOLLOW A SINUSOIDAL IRREGULAR PATH.

IT WAS ALL RELATED TO THE SUN AND VARIABLE HEAT DURING THE HISTORY.

I'm sorry, do you even know what the Van Allen belts are? And WHY you even know that they exist?

Your post was a pile of shit, but I'm just gonna let it go for now, until you're calmer.
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It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
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JohnRozz

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2016, 01:29:53 AM »
fucking freemasons get the fuck out of here.

if you're NOT, the go get a life! thousands messages in a lunatic forum? guess what, get a life.

otherwise you have a very shitty reason to stay here.

MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND HELP YOU FIND THE WAY.

GOD LOVES YOU TOO. BUT IF YOU KEEP WORSHIPPING EVIL, YOUR LIFE WILL ALWAYS BE EMPTY, A TOTAL SHIT, AND THE AFTERLIFE WILL BE YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION. YOU WILL BE DESTROYED.

god has no mercy for those who act like you.
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disputeone

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2016, 02:07:59 AM »
Quote from: JohnRozz on May 16, 2016, 01:29:53 AM
fucking freemasons get the fuck out of here.

if you're NOT, the go get a life! thousands messages in a lunatic forum? guess what, get a life.

otherwise you have a very shitty reason to stay here.

MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND HELP YOU FIND THE WAY.

GOD LOVES YOU TOO. BUT IF YOU KEEP WORSHIPPING EVIL, YOUR LIFE WILL ALWAYS BE EMPTY, A TOTAL SHIT, AND THE AFTERLIFE WILL BE YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION. YOU WILL BE DESTROYED.

god has no mercy for those who act like you.

Warning for low content post, please keep it applicable and on topic.
Thanks.
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disputeone

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2016, 02:12:17 AM »
Quote from: disputeone on May 15, 2016, 10:00:58 PM
Free mason, Flat earth society definition:
Argues with facts, logic, reason and empirical evidence. Free mason.

Synonyms: Shill, Sock puppet, dispute.
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JohnRozz

  • 114
Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2016, 02:24:34 AM »
go to hell man.

you cannot be saved, god has no mercy for those like you.

he loves those who love people and god, and you're a waste of life.

may god save your soul. god bless you. bye.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2016, 02:31:13 AM »
Quote from: JohnRozz on May 16, 2016, 01:29:53 AM
fucking freemasons get the fuck out of here.

if you're NOT, the go get a life! thousands messages in a lunatic forum? guess what, get a life.

otherwise you have a very shitty reason to stay here.

MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND HELP YOU FIND THE WAY.

GOD LOVES YOU TOO. BUT IF YOU KEEP WORSHIPPING EVIL, YOUR LIFE WILL ALWAYS BE EMPTY, A TOTAL SHIT, AND THE AFTERLIFE WILL BE YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION. YOU WILL BE DESTROYED.

god has no mercy for those who act like you.

Do you even know what a freemason is? Stop being so fucking scared of them, they're just a bunch of idiots (well many of them aren't idiots) in a club, occasionally being nepotistic. That's pretty much it.
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It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

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-Intikam (again)
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JohnRozz

  • 114
Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2016, 03:24:29 AM »
did I give you the impression I'm scared?

I'm annoyed, you're all annoying like flies.

you work for the lord of flies, no wonder.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2016, 04:33:43 AM »
Quote from: JohnRozz on May 16, 2016, 03:24:29 AM
did I give you the impression I'm scared?

I'm annoyed, you're all annoying like flies.

you work for the lord of flies, no wonder.

You're very obviously scared and paranoid of them, and also very butthurt.
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It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)
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JohnRozz

  • 114
Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2016, 01:16:03 PM »
http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/science-freemasonry.html

ASSHOLES. it's written there! "we hijacked science for our own good"

it's everywhere! you hope people is stupid and blind, well, not everyone is.
guess who's awake, standing in front of you?!

I'll piss on your NWO!

scared? can't wait to destroy you all  8)

GOD IS WITH ME.
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Stanton

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2016, 02:39:36 AM »
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You shills REALLY need to watch your vocabulary.

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Master_Evar

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Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2016, 05:21:07 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on May 13, 2016, 02:15:55 PM
The average person treats science no differently than those in the dark ages treated dogma.
Well, fair enough.

Quote from: John Davis on May 13, 2016, 02:15:55 PM
They get science 'fact' passed down to them by priests (the news) and monks (schools) and take it as fact without ever questioning one bit of it. When somebody questions this they turn on super defensive mode and abuse the person for being 'stupid' and 'ignorant' regardless of this is indeed the truth, much like blasphemy was treated.
News aren't the priests of science. Not most news at least. Newspapers like popular science would be (and they do provide proper sources for their content), but not your everyday TV news. Those are like the crazy townsperson who spouts just about anything they hear, as long as they like it and they think people will find them interesting. They may be spouting wisdom, or just a bunch of bullshit. However, I will admit that schools would be on pair with monasteries, some even worse. And people do in fact question stuff, but instead of back then when the monks would be like "I'm wiser" teachers today are more like "You're stupid", which makes it scary for the average question to ask questions about complicated stuff. And yes, some people will defend what they think are absolute facts with the only justification being "You're stupid" or "That's what this smarter-than-you person said". The school system is not perfect, and could in fact be better.

Quote from: John Davis on May 13, 2016, 02:15:55 PM
Ok fine, this element might always be here, but is it any better with science than with the church? At least with the church we had the benefit of morality being baked into the dogma. With science we have a movement away from morality that started before wwII, had a short lived realization that it was awful and needed to be policed (Nuremburg) and then a return to immorality.
Well, it lies in human nature to defend one's belief. Which is good, as it keeps us from believing just about anything. But it can make some of us too arrogant to see if we are actually right on our beliefs. And scientific facts have been proven useful many more times than religious ones have. Science isn't concerned with morality, and they (Science and religion) don't exclude each other (though they don't get very well together). Science does NOT stand for immorality, it simply stands for finding out the truth. Science is better at finding out the truth, because science requires testing and questioning of the world. And science is not like a religion, since it does not tell us how to live. Science says what happens in life, and we need to derive from that how we should act if we want to live in a certain way. Science gives us opportunities, a lot more than religion does. But this meaning is lost through a bad educational system and news-companies with exceptionally bad source criticism (When it comes to science anyways), understanding of words like "maybe", "possibly", etc., and statistics. It's not the scientists who get's to be the head of news-companies, or Minister of Education.

Quote from: John Davis on May 13, 2016, 02:15:55 PM
Science wants to raise the dead, clone people, and perform all sorts of immoral tests. The sad thing is that these routinely pass an "ethics" committee. Yeah - because zombies are ethical and can consent to experiment.
No. Some scientists may want to. Science does not, because science does not have a mind. Science is no organization or group, or multiple at that. Science is a tool which the scientists agreed to be used to determine who/what is right and not. Science is about finding the truth (or get as close as possible). If they are going to raise the dead, they'd probably use a donor - they have to get permission from the relatives anyway, and if the person didn't want to be used for this the relatives are probably going to say nay too. Anyways, science is already "raising the dead" - People with stopped hearts and no more brain activity can be "raised" if both organs are still intact and have not yet started decaying (too much). This is usually done within minutes though, but it is raising a person who is by definition dead. And raised people don't go around eating brains, and don't rot away.
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Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!
*

Pezevenk

  • 15363
  • Militant aporfyrodrakonist
Re: Modern Treatment of Science is a fall-back to the Dark Ages
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2016, 05:23:07 AM »
Quote from: JohnRozz on May 16, 2016, 01:16:03 PM
http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/science-freemasonry.html

ASSHOLES. it's written there! "we hijacked science for our own good"

it's everywhere! you hope people is stupid and blind, well, not everyone is.
guess who's awake, standing in front of you?!

I'll piss on your NWO!

scared? can't wait to destroy you all  8)

GOD IS WITH ME.

You are very funny, please continue.
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Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)
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